Barryd999 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 So much for "The Sainted Theresa" huh? Stitched you Brexiteers up like a proper "Kipper" (lol) I Think she has played a clever long game. Its now perfectly clear why she didn't want parliament involved in the deal if it was rejected. It wasn't out for fear of the Tory rebels. It was so that she could keep the Brexiteers sidelined. She played them. I was also impressed that she took all the phones and tech off everyone then sneaked round the back during Dinner to issue her press statement. No tweets or communication whatsoever from the Cabinet Brexiteers. However this is a long way from being acceptable to the EU. I Dont think a two tier tariff system is even legal under WTO Rules for a kick off and she will end up having to do a deal on services of course and Free movement and ECJ will be unavoidable. Then there will be real backlash. The whole point of leaving from the big money Brexiteers like Banks was to lose the EU Regs. He and his evil little band of wealthy Brexiteers will lose their sh1t if they are exposed to EU regs. Thats what Brexit was all about to them. Why do you think they threw so much money at it? To take back control, get rid of funny foreigners? Guffaw! Well to take back control for them of course. However rejoice at this news. Its put Smuggy and the ERG Firmly back in their little slimy box. The entire cabinet has put their name on the Chequers agreement which means even if the ERG could scramble 48 letters to challenge May, they have no one they can rally behind in a leadership challenge. Boris cant challenge the agreement without risking getting sacked in which case he would never be leader which lets face it is all its ever been about for him. The ERG has nobody electable as leader anyway. Check mate to May on this one really. Of course it will all be rejected by the EU on the 16th and further concessions will be have to be made but its a very bad day in Brexiteer land today. My only hope is that by the time its all finished, the deal looks so much like being in the EU everybody turns round and says "well we may as well stay in the EU then" and Brexit is dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Not content with jumping on passing bandwagons you remoaners are now resorting to grasping at anything that looks like a passing straw too. It makes absolute sense to seek the best trade and customs deal we can get, as all we ever wanted in the first place in 1973 was a free trade agreement, with none of the political integration shenanigans that followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 Tracker - 2018-07-07 11:23 AM Not content with jumping on passing bandwagons you remoaners are now resorting to grasping at anything that looks like a passing straw too. It makes absolute sense to seek the best trade and customs deal we can get, as all we ever wanted in the first place in 1973 was a free trade agreement, with none of the political integration shenanigans that followed. Maybe thats all you wanted Rich but dont speak for the rest of us. The single market which was Thatchers project remember and the lesser known Digital Single Market has brought us a whole host of fantastic stuff that goes way beyond a simple trade deal. Some of us actually think stuff like Free movement, no roaming charges and safer internet access is a good thing. I could go on about the benefits etc but we have been there done that. The point is its now looking more and more like we will be heading for a Brexit in name only and in one fell swoop the Sainted Theresa (I'm having that title now) has crippled the ERG And put Boris and Lord Voldermort Smug firmly back in their boxes. Now the EU will refuse all that she has offered until its pretty much single market and customs union with the four freedoms applied. My point is, if that happens, what is the point of Brexit at all? What then? Another referendum? abandon Brexit? The only other choice will be to tell them to get stuffed and hard Brexit and who wants that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Nothing you say needs political integration to work or the one set of rules fits all mentality that seems to pervade the EU rule makers and whilst the nett gainers might agree to everything that gets them access to development funds, those that end up paying may be less enthusiastic about it all. I wouldn't call Mrs May sainted, although I do appreciate that you mean it more as an insult than a plaudit, but in my view she does deserve a lot of credit for taking on the poisoned chalice that is Brexit and for sticking with it for whatever she does one group or other will shout and scream and chuck their teddies out of the pram. So before you all go shouting and screaming let's just see how it pans out shall we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 Tracker - 2018-07-07 11:59 AM Nothing you say needs political integration to work or the one set of rules fits all mentality that seems to pervade the EU rule makers and whilst the nett gainers might agree to everything that gets them access to development funds, those that end up paying may be less enthusiastic about it all. I wouldn't call Mrs May sainted, although I do appreciate that you mean it more as an insult than a plaudit, but in my view she does deserve a lot of credit for taking on the poisoned chalice that is Brexit and for sticking with it for whatever she does one group or other will shout and scream and chuck their teddies out of the pram. So before you all go shouting and screaming let's just see how it pans out shall we? No I never meant it as an insult Rich. Ive been on the fence about May for a while. I could never decide if she had jumped ship or whether she had a long game for a soft Brexit or maybe no Brexit. I could be wrong but it looks to me like she has played an excellent long game and finished the ERG. Off to UKIP for them then! I think she does deserve a lot of credit for what she has taken on. She has certainly had a lot of stick on both sides thats for sure. Who would want that job right now? We shall see as you say. I dont agree of course with your opening comment. Of course we need political integration. Its such a small world now, we work, play and live everywhere. It all has to go hand in hand. It has its downsides that effect some of course but the alternative as we are starting to see is much, much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Tracker - 2018-07-07 11:59 AM I wouldn't call Mrs May sainted, although I do appreciate that you mean it more as an insult than a plaudit, but in my view she does deserve a lot of credit for taking on the poisoned chalice that is Brexit and for sticking with it for whatever she does one group or other will shout and scream and chuck their teddies out of the pram. But Brexiteers saw it as the road to their Nirvana....they never once believed it could prove a "poisoned chalice". ;-) So before you all go shouting and screaming let's just see how it pans out shall we? We've all been witnessing how it's "panning out" and up to now it's not delivered has it? It's divided ministers among May's own ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-07-07 10:43 AM So much for "The Sainted Theresa" huh? Stitched you Brexiteers up like a proper "Kipper" (lol) I Think she has played a clever long game. Its now perfectly clear why she didn't want parliament involved in the deal if it was rejected. It wasn't out for fear of the Tory rebels. It was so that she could keep the Brexiteers sidelined. She played them. I was also impressed that she took all the phones and tech off everyone then sneaked round the back during Dinner to issue her press statement. No tweets or communication whatsoever from the Cabinet Brexiteers. However this is a long way from being acceptable to the EU. I Dont think a two tier tariff system is even legal under WTO Rules for a kick off and she will end up having to do a deal on services of course and Free movement and ECJ will be unavoidable. Then there will be real backlash. The whole point of leaving from the big money Brexiteers like Banks was to lose the EU Regs. He and his evil little band of wealthy Brexiteers will lose their sh1t if they are exposed to EU regs. Thats what Brexit was all about to them. Why do you think they threw so much money at it? To take back control, get rid of funny foreigners? Guffaw! Well to take back control for them of course. However rejoice at this news. Its put Smuggy and the ERG Firmly back in their little slimy box. The entire cabinet has put their name on the Chequers agreement which means even if the ERG could scramble 48 letters to challenge May, they have no one they can rally behind in a leadership challenge. Boris cant challenge the agreement without risking getting sacked in which case he would never be leader which lets face it is all its ever been about for him. The ERG has nobody electable as leader anyway. Check mate to May on this one really. Of course it will all be rejected by the EU on the 16th and further concessions will be have to be made but its a very bad day in Brexiteer land today. My only hope is that by the time its all finished, the deal looks so much like being in the EU everybody turns round and says "well we may as well stay in the EU then" and Brexit is dropped. Its called compromise Barry ;-) ...........We leave and you get to pay >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-07-07 1:41 PM We've all been witnessing how it's "panning out" and up to now it's not delivered has it? It's divided ministers among May's own ranks. Of course it has not delivered and at the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, that is because it is not yet finalised. Of course it has divided views, what do you want and expect, old fashioned control by fear Socialist like stiffling of any opposing views? Free debate and open expression of views is good as the more open the debate the more likely differing views are considered before a decision is taken. Everything will be allright in the end and if it is not alright, then it is not yet the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-07 3:52 PM Barryd999 - 2018-07-07 10:43 AM So much for "The Sainted Theresa" huh? Stitched you Brexiteers up like a proper "Kipper" (lol) I Think she has played a clever long game. Its now perfectly clear why she didn't want parliament involved in the deal if it was rejected. It wasn't out for fear of the Tory rebels. It was so that she could keep the Brexiteers sidelined. She played them. I was also impressed that she took all the phones and tech off everyone then sneaked round the back during Dinner to issue her press statement. No tweets or communication whatsoever from the Cabinet Brexiteers. However this is a long way from being acceptable to the EU. I Dont think a two tier tariff system is even legal under WTO Rules for a kick off and she will end up having to do a deal on services of course and Free movement and ECJ will be unavoidable. Then there will be real backlash. The whole point of leaving from the big money Brexiteers like Banks was to lose the EU Regs. He and his evil little band of wealthy Brexiteers will lose their sh1t if they are exposed to EU regs. Thats what Brexit was all about to them. Why do you think they threw so much money at it? To take back control, get rid of funny foreigners? Guffaw! Well to take back control for them of course. However rejoice at this news. Its put Smuggy and the ERG Firmly back in their little slimy box. The entire cabinet has put their name on the Chequers agreement which means even if the ERG could scramble 48 letters to challenge May, they have no one they can rally behind in a leadership challenge. Boris cant challenge the agreement without risking getting sacked in which case he would never be leader which lets face it is all its ever been about for him. The ERG has nobody electable as leader anyway. Check mate to May on this one really. Of course it will all be rejected by the EU on the 16th and further concessions will be have to be made but its a very bad day in Brexiteer land today. My only hope is that by the time its all finished, the deal looks so much like being in the EU everybody turns round and says "well we may as well stay in the EU then" and Brexit is dropped. Its called compromise Barry ;-) ...........We leave and you get to pay >:-) ......... No Dave, we all get to pay including you. It just depends how much your prepared to pay for Brexit. Basically the harder it is the more it will cost you. (Oooooeeer Matron). Anyway we wont be leaving as half of the hard core Brexiteers in the Mail and Brexpress comments pages actually blew up this morning. There will be nobody left that supports Brexit by March 2019 at this rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Tracker - 2018-07-07 3:58 PM Bulletguy - 2018-07-07 1:41 PM We've all been witnessing how it's "panning out" and up to now it's not delivered has it? It's divided ministers among May's own ranks. Of course it has not delivered and at the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, that is because it is not yet finalised. Hence why i said "up to now it's not delivered....", which it hasn't. Everything Bojo & Co promised simply isn't deliverable. Even when it comes to "taking back control" (of our borders), they've failed with Ireland and Brexiteers still want the UK border on French soil. Funny that! Of course it has divided views, what do you want and expect, old fashioned control by fear Socialist like stiffling of any opposing views? Free debate and open expression of views is good as the more open the debate the more likely differing views are considered before a decision is taken. Everything will be allright in the end and if it is not alright, then it is not yet the end. No i think the time has now come to take stock and realise the foolishness of Brexit, put a stop to any further madness which has already cost the country a fortune, and begin working with our European partners to rebuild relationships. As has been mentioned many times before, this isn't a case of after four years we simply 'vote em out' and get another Government....this is for life and in many cases already ruined lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-07-07 5:10 PM There will be nobody left that supports Brexit by March 2019 at this rate. In your very wet dreams Barry >:-) ......... Although there's still a good chance the EU will not accept it and we'll crash out without a deal B-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5936053/Now-Britons-want-leave-EU-nearly-15-increase-referendum-survey-claims.html (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Oh Lordy ... How did Barry miss that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-07-10 8:42 AM Oh Lordy ... How did Barry miss that one He wears his Remoaner blinkers 24/7 :D ......... http://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-report/british-social-attitudes-35/europe.aspx "Support for leaving the EU has increased considerably since 2015 among those who feel EU membership undermines Britain’s identity, and those who think that leaving the EU would make the economy better." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-10 8:31 AM http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5936053/Now-Britons-want-leave-EU-nearly-15-increase-referendum-survey-claims.html (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... [/quote Well according to the article, the percentage of Britons wanting to leave has increased by nearly 15%. And now stands at 36% :D Daily Mail eh?, go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 "36 per cent of interviewees wanted to leave the EU" Thats something to celebrate is it Dave? What do the other 64% want then? Plus its the Daily Fail. Cant see it reported anywhere else. You keep telling yourself like the other Mail readers that everything in Brexit world is hunky dory but your going to be massively pished off when it all goes tits up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-07-10 8:50 AM "36 per cent of interviewees wanted to leave the EU" Thats something to celebrate is it Dave? What do the other 64% want then? Plus its the Daily Fail. Cant see it reported anywhere else. You keep telling yourself like the other Mail readers that everything in Brexit world is hunky dory but your going to be massively pished off when it all goes tits up. Haven't you spent months trying to convince us that the UK voter is having Bregrets? ;-) ........ http://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-report/british-social-attitudes-35/europe.aspx Looks to me like they're even more convinced they were right to vote leave >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-07-10 8:50 AM Plus its the Daily Fail. Cant see it reported anywhere else. What?......are the Remoaner Rags not reporting it 8-) ........... You "DO" surprise me (lol) (lol) (lol) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-10 8:57 AM Barryd999 - 2018-07-10 8:50 AM "36 per cent of interviewees wanted to leave the EU" Thats something to celebrate is it Dave? What do the other 64% want then? Plus its the Daily Fail. Cant see it reported anywhere else. You keep telling yourself like the other Mail readers that everything in Brexit world is hunky dory but your going to be massively pished off when it all goes tits up. Haven't you spent months trying to convince us that the UK voter is having Bregrets? ;-) ........ http://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-report/british-social-attitudes-35/europe.aspx Looks to me like they're even more convinced they were right to vote leave >:-) ........ The polls have been consistent Dave for months now and show a swing to remain. A small one but a definite swing. Lets have the actual question that was asked in this Survey that not even the Brexpress are reporting. Your just clutching at straws. Brexit is a clusterfcuk and it just needs the country to wake up and realise that. If you want to use polls (Which oddly you and Antony normally dismiss until you find one that suits your agenda which is rare of course) use the tracker polls that have asked the same questions for over two years. https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/uk-poll-results/ Have a look at the one about opinions on if we will be better off post Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Mrs May was seen shopping in Ikea yesterday - it seems she was looking for a new cabinet - one that would not collapse in use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-07-10 9:52 AM pelmetman - 2018-07-10 8:57 AM Barryd999 - 2018-07-10 8:50 AM "36 per cent of interviewees wanted to leave the EU" Thats something to celebrate is it Dave? What do the other 64% want then? Plus its the Daily Fail. Cant see it reported anywhere else. You keep telling yourself like the other Mail readers that everything in Brexit world is hunky dory but your going to be massively pished off when it all goes tits up. Haven't you spent months trying to convince us that the UK voter is having Bregrets? ;-) ........ http://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-report/british-social-attitudes-35/europe.aspx Looks to me like they're even more convinced they were right to vote leave >:-) ........ The polls have been consistent Dave for months now and show a swing to remain. A small one but a definite swing. Lets have the actual question that was asked in this Survey that not even the Brexpress are reporting. How many more times do you want me to post the link? *-) ......... http://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-report/british-social-attitudes-35/europe.aspx BTW I doubt the National Centre for social Research if stuffed to the gunnels with Brexiteers (lol) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 Why no link to the actual questions? It makes no difference anyway Dave. Brexit is stuffed no matter how many people still want it. They can't have it, it's as simple as that. Poor old Theresa now has the awful job of letting them down gently. Personally I would just tell them. Get it over with rather than drag it out any longer. If anyone has a plan or idea how Brexit can be delivered now as it was specified in the referendum then I'd love to hear it. And don't say no deal as it can't happen now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-07-10 11:18 AM Why no link to the actual questions? Are you sure you work in IT? :-S ...........You need to download the chapter *-) ............. Especially this bit >:-) ......... Conclusions The decision to hold a referendum on the UK’s membership of the EU was a controversial one, and especially so among those advocates of UK membership that felt the ballot posed an unnecessary risk. The majority vote to Leave only reinforced that controversy. Meanwhile, there has been plenty of criticism of the quality of the campaigning on both sides of the argument. Claims that leaving the EU would mean that there would be £350m a week extra to spend on the NHS or that it would leave every family £4,300 worse-off have been variously criticised as baseless, tendentious or misleading, and that they were iconic of a campaign that did not serve voters well. Yet voters seem to have survived the experience. ****For the most part they proved relatively resistant to attempts to change their minds about what the consequences of leaving the EU would be*****. What they do seem to have done during the referendum campaign – and since – is to align their views more closely, not just to their perceptions of some of the consequences of leaving the EU, but also to their sense of identity and whether they uphold a socially liberal outlook or a more conservative one. And it is this development that helps explain – albeit not entirely – why voters in Britain have so far emerged from the Brexit process more critical of Britain’s membership of the EU. Those whose perceptions, sense of identity and values already predisposed them in 2015 to take a sceptical view of the EU have particularly come to the view that the UK should leave. Their decision may not be a popular one in all quarters, but it does bear the hallmarks of being an ‘informed’ one. :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Oh dear..... looks like the other 26 are waking up to what a No deal with the UK will mean to the EU >:-) ........ https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/989695/brexit-news-italy-agriculture-no-deal-brexit-eu-budget 254 day's to go and the boot is changing feet B-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-07-07 10:43 AM So much for "The Sainted Theresa" huh? Stitched you Brexiteers up like a proper "Kipper" (lol) I Think she has played a clever long game. Its now perfectly clear why she didn't want parliament involved in the deal if it was rejected. It wasn't out for fear of the Tory rebels. It was so that she could keep the Brexiteers sidelined. She played them. I was also impressed that she took all the phones and tech off everyone then sneaked round the back during Dinner to issue her press statement. No tweets or communication whatsoever from the Cabinet Brexiteers. However this is a long way from being acceptable to the EU. I Dont think a two tier tariff system is even legal under WTO Rules for a kick off and she will end up having to do a deal on services of course and Free movement and ECJ will be unavoidable. Then there will be real backlash. The whole point of leaving from the big money Brexiteers like Banks was to lose the EU Regs. He and his evil little band of wealthy Brexiteers will lose their sh1t if they are exposed to EU regs. Thats what Brexit was all about to them. Why do you think they threw so much money at it? To take back control, get rid of funny foreigners? Guffaw! Well to take back control for them of course. However rejoice at this news. Its put Smuggy and the ERG Firmly back in their little slimy box. The entire cabinet has put their name on the Chequers agreement which means even if the ERG could scramble 48 letters to challenge May, they have no one they can rally behind in a leadership challenge. Boris cant challenge the agreement without risking getting sacked in which case he would never be leader which lets face it is all its ever been about for him. The ERG has nobody electable as leader anyway. Check mate to May on this one really. Of course it will all be rejected by the EU on the 16th and further concessions will be have to be made but its a very bad day in Brexiteer land today. My only hope is that by the time its all finished, the deal looks so much like being in the EU everybody turns round and says "well we may as well stay in the EU then" and Brexit is dropped. So here we are a week later and JRM and the rest of the mob have scuppered any meaningful deal with the help of some Labour MPs who also want a complete break. Looking very much like hard Brexit is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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