Jump to content

Another Brexit Casualty


John52

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 255
  • Created
  • Last Reply
John52 - 2017-10-02 5:51 PM

 

With its income in Brexit crash pounds, and its fuel and leasing costs priced in dollars, Monarch Airways goes bust. No one wants to buy it either, with Brexit uncertainty. :-(

In a nutshell though fanatical Brexiteers will deny and deflect.

 

We can now add another 2000 to the dole queue. Left with just one weeks pay. My sympathies go out to all those good people who've had their lives ruined by political suicide. 50 years business down the pan.

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/monarch-collapse-causes-travel-chaos

Link to comment
Share on other sites

antony1969 - 2017-10-02 7:37 PM

 

According to the travel experts I heard earlier Monarch did not move with the times and trouble started back in the late 90s ... Not sure Brexit was in the late 90s ... Nice whinging , moaning try though

All businesses have problems. Monarch survived them until Brexit pushed it over the edge - and we haven't even left the EU yet..

Many British business have already sunk through mis-judging exchange rates - something their European competitors don't have to contend wiith being in the Euro.

Labour is planning for another run on the pound - something else that countries with the Euro don't have to contend with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John52 - 2017-10-03 7:22 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-10-02 7:37 PM

 

According to the travel experts I heard earlier Monarch did not move with the times and trouble started back in the late 90s ... Not sure Brexit was in the late 90s ... Nice whinging , moaning try though

All businesses have problems. Monarch survived them until Brexit pushed it over the edge - and we haven't even left the EU yet..

Many British business have already sunk through mis-judging exchange rates - something their European competitors don't have to contend wiith being in the Euro.

Labour is planning for another run on the pound - something else that countries with the Euro don't have to contend with.

 

Well I can't argue with your insider boardroom knowledge regarding the company ... Brexit it is then and nothing to do with not moving with the times in a fast changing industry ... Those "many British businesses" already sunk through interest rates caused I presume by Brexit , might be interesting if you post the list and the official line given that Brexit/exchange rates caused the closures

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My understanding is that Monarch went bust due to a combination of poor and complacent management and a rapidly changing holiday destination market to which they failed to react correctly.

This was due in no small way not to Brexit but to the many recent terrorist attacks in their main destinations of Turkey, Egypt and Tunisia and the subsequent loss of custom to holiday in these unsafe countries.

Although what constitutes a safe country these days remains unclear?

But if it's easier to blame Brexit to suit any political brain washing by all means please feel free to delude yourselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whilst I would agree that it's a bit of a stretch to lay all of Monarch's woes at the feet of Brexit, you can probably bet your bottom dollar that if Monarch's profits had've soared,and 2000 jobs had been created, instead of being lost, then the forums' Brexiteers would have been using it as an indication as to how well Brexit Britain ("UKPLC"?) was performing...

 

So they can't have it both ways...

 

(although "Have cake and eat it" does seem to be a bit of a Brexit theme.....) :-S

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pepe63 - 2017-10-03 9:28 AM

although "Have cake and eat it" does seem to be a bit of a Brexit theme.

 

Agreed it does with some who are as blinkered as some Remainers when it comes to any excuse to blame the other side.

 

I see it differently and whilst I support Brexit in principle I do have grave doubts about any UK government of any political persuasion and their ability to negotiate let alone their ability to run the country.

 

I believe that in the long term Brexit will be good for the UK but the road will be long and there will be setbacks.

 

The important thing to do is to stop the blame game and the 'I told you so' point scoring and all pull together to show a united face to the EU.

 

And pigs might fly!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest pelmetman

I see the forums sado Remoaners are whinging away as usual >:-) ......

 

The Indian restaurant in our town has gone bust 8-) ........That must be BREXIT's fault to, and nothing to do we've being closed down due to hygiene issues......and I suppose UBER getting kicked out of London is down to BREXIT as well? (lol) ......

 

Look on the bright side......Monarchs loss is Ryanairs gain ;-) ........

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tracker - 2017-10-03 9:14 AM

 

My understanding is that Monarch went bust due to a combination of poor and complacent management and a rapidly changing holiday destination market to which they failed to react correctly.

This was due in no small way not to Brexit but to the many recent terrorist attacks in their main destinations of Turkey, Egypt and Tunisia and the subsequent loss of custom to holiday in these unsafe countries.

Although what constitutes a safe country these days remains unclear?

But if it's easier to blame Brexit to suit any political brain washing by all means please feel free to delude yourselves.

Not quite, Lord Copper! :-) Monarch got into a loss making position for all the reasons you cite, plus increased competition post the terrorist attacks as the low coast airlines moved in on the traffic Monarch had previously monopolised.

 

However, until the post referendum fall in the value of the pound they were sustainable losses in the short term that would have allowed Monarch belatedly to change its business model. It is the post referendum fall in the value of the pound that, through increased fuel prices plus a fall in the numbers taking foreign holidays, that proved the last straws.

 

It is as misleading, IMO, to infer that Brexit played no part in their demise, as it is to infer it was the whole story. Both views equally justify your charge that they are the product of political brainwashing!

 

But, the greater concern is the number of as yet unrevealed companies whose circumstances are similar. To coin a phrase, those that are " just about managing", for whom the fall in the value of the £ will also prove the last straw. Watch, I fear, this space! Remember Warren Buffet's quip that you can see who's been skinny dipping when the tide goes out? Well, the tide is going out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whether we are in or out, or half way in or half way out of the EU there will always be 'market conditions' that change, and currency exchange rates that fluctuate, sometimes gradually but often very quickly.

 

Well managed and prudently funded companies in whatever sector either react swiftly to adapt to the new conditions or they go under, or better still they are structured to have enough diversification to manage and survive any changes, predictable or unforseen.

 

That is what company directors are supposed to do for their sometimes inordinately high salaries, and if that means shrinking the company to survive that is what they must do as it is much easier to expand again than it is to start up a new company.

 

There will always be companies that go bust, before the EU, during the EU and after the EU, but as we have had the Brexit scenario for some 15 months now and many companies are surviving well enough it seems a churlish excuse to blame the 'unforseen' effects of Brexit in any way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tracker - 2017-10-03 10:15 AM.........................The important thing to do is to stop the blame game and the 'I told you so' point scoring and all pull together to show a united face to the EU.

Honestly? I don't think Britain united or Britain divided will make the slightest difference. The EU is a club of 28 countries, shortly to become a club of 27. We are negotiating to maintain favourable trading terms with the club after we leave.

 

If you want to leave your local tennis club, you leave. You then don't play tennis, or you play elsewhere. OTOH, if you instead demand:

(A) favourable terms for turning up and playing from time to time, you can anticipate refusal, or possibly the offer of "country membership" at a reduced fee, or

(B) favourable terms while retaining the right to turn up and play all the time, you can anticipate being invited to decide whether you want to leave and not play at all, or to remain a member.

It won't matter how determined you are that you want B, you won't get it.

 

The problem with this club is we were late in, and were always 45% members - who now want 55% of membership benefits while being 0% members.

 

Sadly, just over half our population was gullible enough to be persuaded that was a real possibility. They weren't voting for jam in 50 years time, they were persuaded they could leave today and have jam tomorrow. For some - apparently increasing - reality is beginning to penetrate.

 

I blame football! :-) Most seem to have seen the referendum as a football match between two sides, where the important thing was to "win".

 

It wasn't. The important thing was, and is, what happens next. The negotiations are about what happens next, and our negotiators are finding they don't have many chips to play. Their best present negotiating ploy is to plead that if we are allowed to shoot ourselves in the foot by leaving, the other 27 will lose out through loss of sales to us. So they plead, the EU must help us avoid the wound we are threatening to inflict on ourselves, or we will, really, really, do it! It must be like negotiating with someone having a nervous breakdown, who is threatening to jump from a bridge. That is what we are reduced to, and we seem to only ones unable to see it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tracker - 2017-10-03 11:39 AM............................There will always be companies that go bust, before the EU, during the EU and after the EU, but as we have had the Brexit scenario for some 15 months now and many companies are surviving well enough it seems a churlish excuse to blame the 'unforseen' effects of Brexit in any way.

Of course all companies are prone to the effects of "events", but then, not all companies are as well run as you might wish. There is always that extra incident that proves fatal, and it is not only the badly run who get taken down by events. Were it the case that all badly run companies failed in short order, our unemployment figures (and our productivity record!) would look very different. The thing is that managements can improve, or be changed, and jobs are then preserved, which is to all our benefit.

 

Possibly the management of Monarch were pro Brexit, and believed leaving the EU would prove their salvation. :-) Who knows, but only the arch Brexiteers seem to have been persuaded that leaving would cure our ills. As I said, the consequent fall in Sterling was not THE factor, but it was one of the factors, and that should be faced with a clear eye. In this case, it was the last straw.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Managements can be changed, it's true, but getting the turkeys to vote for Christmas is not a simple matter as self preservation of a hefty director salary and perks shows.

 

Maybe they were pro Brexit and it just is not happening fast enough for them?

 

Company managers and directors should not have their heads so far in the sand as to be pro Brexit or pro Remain as it leaves their bums stuck out and very vulnerable when it goes t'other way.

 

Brexit will not of course cure all our ills, but then again neither would Remaining and it remains to be seen how successive governments will manage the country, but given their history I would not expect too much!

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

antony1969 - 2017-10-03 1:15 PM

 

Monarch went bust because it didn't move in a fast changing market ... Maybe BHS went bust because of Brexit , Delorean and Lakes Airlines too ... Remoan remoan remoan

The only thing taking an argument to the absurd proves, Antony, is that the argument is itself absurd! :-D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brian Kirby - 2017-10-03 7:18 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-10-03 1:15 PM

 

Monarch went bust because it didn't move in a fast changing market ... Maybe BHS went bust because of Brexit , Delorean and Lakes Airlines too ... Remoan remoan remoan

The only thing taking an argument to the absurd proves, Antony, is that the argument is itself absurd! :-D

 

Couldn't agree more Brian ... Maybe thats exactly the point I was trying to get over ... Utterly absurd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tracker - 2017-10-03 7:50 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-10-03 7:47 PM

Couldn't agree more Brian ... Maybe thats exactly the point I was trying to get over ... Utterly absurd

 

I do hope that you will be able to get over it sooner rather than later Antony!

 

I'll never get over Macho Grande Richard ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brian Kirby - 2017-10-03 11:27 AM
Tracker - 2017-10-03 9:14 AMMy understanding is that Monarch went bust due to a combination of poor and complacent management and a rapidly changing holiday destination market to which they failed to react correctly.This was due in no small way not to Brexit but to the many recent terrorist attacks in their main destinations of Turkey, Egypt and Tunisia and the subsequent loss of custom to holiday in these unsafe countries.Although what constitutes a safe country these days remains unclear?But if it's easier to blame Brexit to suit any political brain washing by all means please feel free to delude yourselves.
Not quite, Lord Copper! :-) Monarch got into a loss making position for all the reasons you cite, plus increased competition post the terrorist attacks as the low coast airlines moved in on the traffic Monarch had previously monopolised. However, until the post referendum fall in the value of the pound they were sustainable losses in the short term that would have allowed Monarch belatedly to change its business model. It is the post referendum fall in the value of the pound that, through increased fuel prices plus a fall in the numbers taking foreign holidays, that proved the last straws.It is as misleading, IMO, to infer that Brexit played no part in their demise, as it is to infer it was the whole story. Both views equally justify your charge that they are the product of political brainwashing! But, the greater concern is the number of as yet unrevealed companies whose circumstances are similar. To coin a phrase, those that are " just about managing", for whom the fall in the value of the £ will also prove the last straw. Watch, I fear, this space! Remember Warren Buffet's quip that you can see who's been skinny dipping when the tide goes out? Well, the tide is going out.

Sorry but 'sustainable losses'....that is simply bull***t.  Agreed the terrorist threats in certain areas did it no favours but......  Monarch came under new management in 2015 after it almost went bust in 2014 because it was a basket case.  In the year to Oct 2014 it lost £90m.  Last year (2016) it lost almost £300m although it did make a profit of almost £27m in 2015.  

Now if memory serves me correctly the so called Brexit effect on £GBP has only been the whipping boy, the aiming point for all financial ills for any downward trend in Sterling since June 2016.  So now take a look at EasyJet profits for 2016....almost £500,000,000 after tax and RyanAir announced profits for 2016-17 of £1.1 BILLION AFTER TAX!!!

So sustainable losses for Monarch?  I don't think so.  Monarch had been floundering for some time pre and post Brexit.  Terrorism and other factors causing the loss of revenue destinations added to most of it's woes because if there's no bums on seats there's no revenue.

The 'Brexit' factor to blame?  No....Just more smoke and mirrors from the 'can not accept democracy' brigade.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest pelmetman

Yep the pound/euro has not been lower than this since 2008......or 2009...or 2010 .....or 2011.....or 2012 .....or 2013.....or 2014 8-) ........

 

Dam how annoying must that be for doom & gloom merchants >:-) ........

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RogerC - 2017-10-04 5:42 PM................................The 'Brexit' factor to blame?  No....Just more smoke and mirrors from the 'can not accept democracy' brigade.

Well, if you'd taken the trouble read what I actually wrote you'd see that I did not argue that the loss in value of Sterling post referendum (I assume you're not arguing there has not been a loss in the value of Sterling) was to blame, just that it was part of Monarch's problems alongside all those other factors. Just one more straw for the camel's back. It is no more credible to argue that currency movements had no influence on its trading position, than it would have been had I argued that they were the only reason for its trading position. Changing events reveal the weak, do they not? Monarch was weak. Events changed. Sayonara Monarch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...