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Asian Sexploiter Groups
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userStuartO
Posted: 10 August 2017 9:14 AM
Subject: Asian Sexploiter Groups
 


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The convictions of a group of 18 asian men (and one white woman) in Newcastle were announced with a suggestion by a lady who I think is the Chief Executive of the Local Authority that this sort of thing is happening all over UK, in many towns and cities, and if it hasn't been spotted it's because those responsible aren't looking. There doesn't seem to any suggestion that it's not always groups of ethnically asian men (who are also of muslim origins) who are doing this so presumably it's towns and cities where there are substantial numbers of people of asian origin.  The Newcastle group are said to be, unlike some other groups of sexual predators of asians, mostly British-born, which suggests that it's ethnic origin or tribal associations among these population groups which are the basis of the offending.

How do we grasp this nettle?  Do we also need to grasp the other nettles of widespread criminal conduct (not just sex offences) among ethnic or tribal groups?




userRandonneur
Posted: 10 August 2017 4:28 PM
Subject: RE: Asian Sexploiter Groups
 


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Would suggest that this post is moved to Chatterbox.
userpelmetman
Posted: 12 August 2017 10:25 PM
Subject: RE: Asian Sexploiter Groups
 


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Careful Stuart ..........You'll annoy our resident ethnic minority defenders by pointing out the obvious ........





userantony1969
Posted: 17 August 2017 7:30 AM
Subject: RE: Asian Sexploiter Groups
 


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Within 30 miles of me Keighley , Bradford , Huddersfield , Halifax , Rotherham , Rochdale to name a few ... All Muslim rape gangs all raping white under age girls ... Purely coincidence and nothing to do with what one of those convicted shouted out about how they view white girls in court of course ... Those Muslim rape gangs are repeated up and down Blighty ... Those who deny the problem add to it and inevitably by trying to shout the problem down they allow Muslims to rape more white victims ... Shame on em
userpelmetman
Posted: 17 August 2017 7:37 PM
Subject: RE: Asian Sexploiter Groups
 


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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4796424/Labour-frontbencher-quits-article-racial-abuse.html?login#readerCommentsCommand-message-field

I see Corbyn is just another brain dead PC denier ..........

As far as I'm concerned that makes him just as guilty as the Asian peado perverts .......

userantony1969
Posted: 18 August 2017 6:35 AM
Subject: RE: Asian Sexploiter Groups
 


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Hes denier numero uno Dave ... Nice to see those 'Asians' in Spain are representing 'the religion of peace' well ... It sure is a news hogger that religion ... Big sympathies to those murdered yesterday
userStuartO
Posted: 18 August 2017 8:18 AM
Subject: RE: Asian Sexploiter Groups
 


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Location: Suffolk


The obstacle to progress dealing with the wave of child sexual abuse cases we are seeing commited by gangs of people of asian ethnic origin seems to be that the liberal left thinks there is an overriding need to avoid ethnic or racial profiling in what we do, because that is, in their eyes, a bigger wrong.  That was why the Shaddow Women and Equalities Minister had to apologise for her choice of words and resign.  The prospect of tackling the appaling criminality of the sexual abuse cases stalls yet again.

We live in a democracy in which everyone has a vote and those with the loudest or best deployed voices, in this media-driven age seem to carry the day.  Liberalism is in the ascendency.

Racial profiling isn't the only overriding modern sin; the latest one seems to be to make any sort of public criticism of gender reassignment, even among children, because individuals have a right to make a choice and must therefore be assisted as well as allowed to make these choices.  Common sense is out of the window and it won't be long before we're all be required to dress all babies in yellow and call them "it" until they express their choice.

I fear for our democracy because I believe there are many people, so far going along with it all, hoping that it will stop, who are not likely to tolerate this pattern indefinitely and that democracy itself will be the victim.  We risk a huge and probably violent upheaval and a period of non-democratic rule because democracy is being hijacked and distorted by the silly idea that liberal principle should override the need to deal with serious criminality.

It is not enough, Veronica, to acknowledge that these cases of sexual abuse by gangs of men are serious crimes if at the same time you are adding "but you must not engage in racial profiling in order to deal with it".
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 18 August 2017 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: Asian Sexploiter Groups
 


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StuartO - 2017-08-18 8:18 AM.....................I fear for our democracy because I believe there are many people, so far going along with it all, hoping that it will stop, who are not likely to tolerate this pattern indefinitely and that democracy itself will be the victim.  We risk a huge and probably violent upheaval and a period of non-democratic rule because democracy is being hijacked and distorted by the silly idea that liberal principle should override the need to deal with serious criminality.......................

I’ve stayed away from this up to now, because its trajectory and likely participants are totally predictable (correct so far ). Stuart’s comment above is more than a bit hyperbolic, verging on hysteria. It is, as he says, his fear: it is emotion, but it is hardly rational.

First a definition.

Liberal: (a definition lifted from The Free Dictionary - choose your own to suit your point of view )
1.
a. Favoring reform, open to new ideas, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; not bound by traditional thinking; broad-minded.
b. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
c. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

Where in that definition do you find the slightest hint that “Liberals” (however one chooses to define them) take the view that (their) “liberal principle should override the need to deal with serious criminality”? It seems to me a description of a mindset fundamental to democratic principles.

To your concern: yes, there is a particular problem with groups of predominantly Asian men in the UK, from a particular religious/cultural background, committing serious sexual crimes against disadvantaged and vulnerable non-Asian girls. I see evidence that this is recognised by the appropriate authorities at senior level. Equally, I see evidence that it was not previously recognised, and acted upon, as it should have been.

It is clear it must be vigorously dealt with, but in doing that we need to avoid the equally (possibly more) damaging result of stigmatising all other members of that group as potential offenders. To do that risks provoking a violent backlash, potentially leading to race riots. We cannot just lock them all up, “in case”. We cannot make a sector of our population scapegoats on ethnic or religious grounds, because we need their active cooperation, because we should risk radicalising the already disaffected, and because it would be a fundamental injustice. But also because this is not the only area in which failure to adapt to “British” cultural and social norms mars relations with this segment of our society.

This issue is an accident of British history much wider than sexual criminality (of which that is but one strand), and it is going to take generations to fully resolve. Our problem in dealing with it is to cultivate and “bring over” those who reject integration, without alienating those who are integrating, or are already integrated, in the process.

However that is to be achieved, I don’t see this forum, or calculatedly guileful contributions to it, as useful. Nor do I see authoritarianism as a likely route to success. It will take time, effort, patience, cool heads, and wise counsel, to achieve. Sadly, on present evidence, those characteristics are in short supply but, hopefully, they will prevail.
userantony1969
Posted: 18 August 2017 2:16 PM
Subject: RE: Asian Sexploiter Groups
 


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Not wanting to offend those of a certain religion is the reason why hundreds if not thousands of further innocent white girls have been attacked ... I'll not call them vulnerable because I don't know all the victims and no one else does so how or why vulnerable needs to be used in the description of these girls is beyond me , they are mostly underage white girls and described by some convicted of abusing them as white slags and sluts only good for men like them ... I wished you'd stayed away Brian as your response is as you put it predictable but hey-ho its a free world still ... I think
userStuartO
Posted: 18 August 2017 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: Asian Sexploiter Groups
 


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Location: Suffolk


I used liberal with a small "l" Brian, so your definitions of Liberal (big "L") are irrelevant.  I would include Jeremy Corbyn in my concept of blinkered liberals.

I think people who espouse liberal ideas and want to exercise liberal vetoes on action against criminality and have no direct experience of the intercultural pressures and tensions which have built up in many of our (mainly Northern) cities - and are blind to the scale criminality among asians, everything from crash-for-cash rackets to drug dealing to schoolchildren - should open their eyes to reality.  If we, as a society, do not grasp this nettle of wholesale criminality among non-integrated non-native ethnic groups and interference in efforts to resolve the problems by misguided do-gooders, we will have blood on our hands.  The idea that we must take generations to seduce the asians into integration rather than ever risk stepping on the sensitivities of the asian communities as a whole is just silly.  Of course there are lots of good and godly muslims but that does mean we shouldn't be rooting out the bad ones and recognising, for targetting and intellegence purposes, that they are all asians and they are all nominally muslims.  Genuinely good and godly muslims would surely support efforts to deal with bad ones and if they continue to fail to do so then we have another nettle to grasp.

Nor does it matter that there are plenty of non-asian, non-muslim criminals we need to target as well.  And if they are members of an identifiable ethnic group which engages in criminality (such as the traveller family who were convicted of slavery recently) we should target those groups too.

It's no use just being dismissive of anyone who argues against your view because they are irrational without providing a rational explanation of why.  To do that is no better than slinging personal insults around. 

I know from other posts you've made that you are blessed with supreme self confidence in your judgement and that even if you are faced with overwhelming logical evidence and argument, you will simply reserve your right to hold your opinion anyway.  It's no consolation to me that if our democracy does break down and we do experience riotous rebellion, people like you will not be immune from being targetted.


Edited by StuartO 2017-08-18 2:33 PM
userantony1969
Posted: 18 August 2017 4:51 PM
Subject: RE: Asian Sexploiter Groups
 


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Something else that's predictable ... murder carried out in the name of Islam ... Finland one knifed to death to the famous God is great chant and Dusseldorf another one stabbed to death ... The religion of peace just keeps on giving
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 18 August 2017 7:08 PM
Subject: RE: Asian Sexploiter Groups
 


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StuartO - 2017-08-18 2:20 PM

1 I used liberal with a small "l" Brian, so your definitions of Liberal (big "L") are irrelevant. 

Capitalisation is normal for a one-word heading. The definition, as should be apparent, is of the word liberal, not of the party, so I think it is relevant. Read it again. It describes a social attitude, not a party.

2 I would include Jeremy Corbyn in my concept of blinkered liberals.

Blinkered yes, but not "liberal" in either sense. His action and statement is mealy-mouthed in the extreme. That is not liberal: that is appeasement.

3 I think people who espouse liberal ideas and want to exercise liberal vetoes on action against criminality and have no direct experience of the intercultural pressures and tensions which have built up in many of our (mainly Northern) cities - and are blind to the scale criminality among asians, everything from crash-for-cash rackets to drug dealing to schoolchildren - should open their eyes to reality. 

I agree, and said as much.

4 If we, as a society, do not grasp this nettle of wholesale criminality among non-integrated non-native ethnic groups and interference in efforts to resolve the problems by misguided do-gooders, we will have blood on our hands. 

But, if we go at it "bull at a gate", we shall also have blood on our hands. So what is your proposal?

5 The idea that we must take generations to seduce the asians into integration rather than ever risk stepping on the sensitivities of the asian communities as a whole is just silly. 

It is not a question of not stepping on their sensitivities; it is a question of not alienating the whole community. Many inhabit what are, in many respects, closed communities that exist uneasily within, but in many cases apart from, our own community. Their skills with English are in many cases poor, despite having spent decades in Britain. There is great scope for misunderstanding when trying to handle delicate issues, but without their voluntary cooperation there is little scope for identifying those behaving badly in whatever way. Policing is a matter of public consent, and if that segment of the public can't be persuaded to consent to being policed, what would the alternative look like?

6 Of course there are lots of good and godly muslims but that does mean we shouldn't be rooting out the bad ones and recognising, for targetting and intellegence purposes, that they are all asians and they are all nominally muslims.  Genuinely good and godly muslims would surely support efforts to deal with bad ones and if they continue to fail to do so then we have another nettle to grasp.

As 5, how do we do that "rooting out" in the absence of active cooperation from the majority? There is little evidence to date that the majority have been pestering the police to take action against those that some at least must have known were involved in these activities. It seems overly simplistic to divide the community between the "good and godly", and the criminal, elements. Many are somewhere between: they won't inform, whether because of fear of reprisal, or because of tacit support for the perpetrators. I think your "other nettle" is/ and always has been, the reality.

7 Nor does it matter that there are plenty of non-asian, non-muslim criminals we need to target as well.  And if they are members of an identifiable ethnic group which engages in criminality (such as the traveller family who were convicted of slavery recently) we should target those groups too.

Well yes, but who is suggesting that? Certainly not me. Notwithstanding, there must first be reasonable grounds for suspicion, not crude stereotyping. Softly, softly, catchee monkey!

8 It's no use just being dismissive of anyone who argues against your view because they are irrational without providing a rational explanation of why.  To do that is no better than slinging personal insults around. 

I thought I had provided a rational explanation as to why I disagree. I think we have to act with subtlety and delicacy, because if we don't we shall exacerbate the problem we wish, I assume, to overcome without bloodshed.

9 I know from other posts you've made that you are blessed with supreme self confidence in your judgement and that even if you are faced with overwhelming logical evidence and argument, you will simply reserve your right to hold your opinion anyway. 

Ah, the true Stuart! Forget the argument and attack the person. Always a pleasure to debate with you!

10 It's no consolation to me that if our democracy does break down and we do experience riotous rebellion, people like you will not be immune from being targeted.

Nor would it be to me, though I fear the outcome you cite would be more likely were your approach to be adopted. I'm not denying the problem, just that you seem to be advocating an approach to it that I think would prove counter-productive. This will not be solved quickly: it has lingered for far too long.
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