John52 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 So the Americans have done an impact assessment of Brexit on Britain (because the British Government couldn't be bothered to). http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42315280 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 John52 - 2017-12-12 9:48 AM So the Americans have done an impact assessment of Brexit on Britain (because the British Government couldn't be bothered to). http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42315280 Or - to put it another way - the Americans ( with plenty of time on their hands ) decided to have a stab at guessing the future, but own government were too busy . ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Hasn't the EU and the other 27 countries all done impact assessments as well? I do find it hard to believe we have not. Maybe we have and its so dire they are keeping it quiet. Trouble is everyone else has published theirs and now the Americans so the evidence is already out there. We will be worse of, its pretty much undeniable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-12-12 1:09 PM Hasn't the EU and the other 27 countries all done impact assessments as well? I do find it hard to believe we have not. Maybe we have and its so dire they are keeping it quiet. Trouble is everyone else has published theirs and now the Americans so the evidence is already out there. We will be worse of, its pretty much undeniable. Impact assessments remind me of when my bank asked me what my business plan was? when my overdraft facility was due for renewal 8-) .......I'd only been trading for 10 years *-) ........ Paid it off instead........ I cant be arsed with inventing stuff for idiots >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-12-12 2:24 PM Barryd999 - 2017-12-12 1:09 PM Hasn't the EU and the other 27 countries all done impact assessments as well? I do find it hard to believe we have not. Maybe we have and its so dire they are keeping it quiet. Trouble is everyone else has published theirs and now the Americans so the evidence is already out there. We will be worse of, its pretty much undeniable. Impact assessments remind me of when my bank asked me what my business plan was? when my overdraft facility was due for renewal 8-) .......I'd only been trading for 10 years *-) ........ Paid it off instead........ I cant be arsed with inventing stuff for idiots >:-) ......... So I take it you didnt have a plan then Dave. Do you not think we should have one for Brexit then as well? I was going to say that if we had had the Americans assessment or any independent plan or assessment before June 2016 then perhaps the result would have been different but of course the big hitters like Boris and Farage would have just labelled it as project fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 12, 2017 Author Share Posted December 12, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-12-12 1:09 PM its so dire they are keeping it quiet. Would be hard for them to admit Brexit is a mistake. Easier for them to carry on making promises they can't keep. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-12-12 2:32 PM pelmetman - 2017-12-12 2:24 PM Barryd999 - 2017-12-12 1:09 PM Hasn't the EU and the other 27 countries all done impact assessments as well? I do find it hard to believe we have not. Maybe we have and its so dire they are keeping it quiet. Trouble is everyone else has published theirs and now the Americans so the evidence is already out there. We will be worse of, its pretty much undeniable. Impact assessments remind me of when my bank asked me what my business plan was? when my overdraft facility was due for renewal 8-) .......I'd only been trading for 10 years *-) ........ Paid it off instead........ I cant be arsed with inventing stuff for idiots >:-) ......... So I take it you didnt have a plan then Dave. Do you not think we should have one for Brexit then as well? I was going to say that if we had had the Americans assessment or any independent plan or assessment before June 2016 then perhaps the result would have been different but of course the big hitters like Boris and Farage would have just labelled it as project fear. Nope ;-) ............Because just like the American assessment it would of been pure guess work >:-) ........ Besides why worry about Brexit when we have nuclear Armageddon just around the corner B-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 John52 - 2017-12-12 2:37 PM Barryd999 - 2017-12-12 1:09 PM its so dire they are keeping it quiet. Would be hard for them to admit Brexit is a mistake. Easier for them to carry on making promises they can't keep. :-S Blimey that's rich coming from a Corbyn acolyte (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Lets me see now....... how is Corbyn's mate in Venezuela doing? >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-12-12 1:09 PMHasn't the EU and the other 27 countries all done impact assessments as well? I do find it hard to believe we have not. Maybe we have and its so dire they are keeping it quiet. Trouble is everyone else has published theirs and now the Americans so the evidence is already out there. We will be worse of, its pretty much undeniable. Here we go again....moan moan moan....doomed doomed doomed. I find it amazing you remain people know for certain that Armageddon is at the end of the negotiations. How awful it must be for you to know so much....to 'undeniably' know so much and have to sit by and let the negotiating team get it all wrong. Instead of just sitting at your keyboard(s) and pontificating have any of you actually offered your 20/20 insight services to the negotiating team because if not you only have yourselves to blame if things don't go your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 RogerC - 2017-12-12 3:35 PMBarryd999 - 2017-12-12 1:09 PMHasn't the EU and the other 27 countries all done impact assessments as well? I do find it hard to believe we have not. Maybe we have and its so dire they are keeping it quiet. Trouble is everyone else has published theirs and now the Americans so the evidence is already out there. We will be worse of, its pretty much undeniable.Here we go again....moan moan moan....doomed doomed doomed. I find it amazing you remain people know for certain that Armageddon is at the end of the negotiations. How awful it must be for you to know so much....to 'undeniably' know so much and have to sit by and let the negotiating team get it all wrong.Instead of just sitting at your keyboard(s) and pontificating have any of you actually offered your 20/20 insight services to the negotiating team because if not you only have yourselves to blame if things don't go your way.Thats almost funny Roger, especially the last bit. Why is it classed as moaning having an opinion thats different to yours? We dont know for certain that any of the impact assessments or opinions of the vast majority of experts and economists will be correct that Brexit will harm our economy but when you have so many sources saying the same thing then only a fool would stand there and say "It will be alright on the night or have faith etc". The writing is on the wall for all to see. Having blind faith and going against what all the experts and think tanks say will only get you so far and now we are seeing it all fall apart as predicted. The EU who we were told would capitulate because they need us more than we need them have done no such thing and so far now the actual work needs to be done it is us dancing to their tune, again as predicted.As for your last comment the only people to blame at the end of it all is the people who took us out of the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-12-12 3:44 PMRogerC - 2017-12-12 3:35 PMBarryd999 - 2017-12-12 1:09 PMHasn't the EU and the other 27 countries all done impact assessments as well? I do find it hard to believe we have not. Maybe we have and its so dire they are keeping it quiet. Trouble is everyone else has published theirs and now the Americans so the evidence is already out there. We will be worse of, its pretty much undeniable.Here we go again....moan moan moan....doomed doomed doomed. I find it amazing you remain people know for certain that Armageddon is at the end of the negotiations. How awful it must be for you to know so much....to 'undeniably' know so much and have to sit by and let the negotiating team get it all wrong.Instead of just sitting at your keyboard(s) and pontificating have any of you actually offered your 20/20 insight services to the negotiating team because if not you only have yourselves to blame if things don't go your way.Thats almost funny Roger, especially the last bit. Why is it classed as moaning having an opinion thats different to yours? Of course its moaning.......none of your Remoaner dire predictions have materialised have they? >:-) .........So now your claiming its because we haven't left yet *-) .........We have left as far as the rest of the world is concerned ;-) ........We're just bitching over who keeps the CD collection in their eyes :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-12-12 3:44 PM As for your last comment the only people to blame at the end of it all is the people who took us out of the EU. Absolutely right ! It was the politicians / bureaucrats in Brussels who refused to consider any of the U.K. electorate's concerns. ( Plus David Cameron ). :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 12, 2017 Author Share Posted December 12, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-12-12 3:59 PMBarryd999 - 2017-12-12 3:44 PMRogerC - 2017-12-12 3:35 PMBarryd999 - 2017-12-12 1:09 PMHasn't the EU and the other 27 countries all done impact assessments as well? I do find it hard to believe we have not. Maybe we have and its so dire they are keeping it quiet. Trouble is everyone else has published theirs and now the Americans so the evidence is already out there. We will be worse of, its pretty much undeniable.Here we go again....moan moan moan....doomed doomed doomed. I find it amazing you remain people know for certain that Armageddon is at the end of the negotiations. How awful it must be for you to know so much....to 'undeniably' know so much and have to sit by and let the negotiating team get it all wrong.Instead of just sitting at your keyboard(s) and pontificating have any of you actually offered your 20/20 insight services to the negotiating team because if not you only have yourselves to blame if things don't go your way.Thats almost funny Roger, especially the last bit. Why is it classed as moaning having an opinion thats different to yours? Of course its moaning.......none of your Remoaner dire predictions have materialised have they? >:-) .........So now your claiming its because we haven't left yet *-) .........We have left as far as the rest of the world is concerned ;-) ........We're just bitching over who keeps the CD collection in their eyes :D ........We still have tariff and customs free trade to keep our just-in-time deliveries going.Which you won't miss until they are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-12-12 3:44 PMRogerC - 2017-12-12 3:35 PMBarryd999 - 2017-12-12 1:09 PMHasn't the EU and the other 27 countries all done impact assessments as well? I do find it hard to believe we have not. Maybe we have and its so dire they are keeping it quiet. Trouble is everyone else has published theirs and now the Americans so the evidence is already out there. We will be worse of, its pretty much undeniable. Here we go again....moan moan moan....doomed doomed doomed. I find it amazing you remain people know for certain that Armageddon is at the end of the negotiations. How awful it must be for you to know so much....to 'undeniably' know so much and have to sit by and let the negotiating team get it all wrong. Instead of just sitting at your keyboard(s) and pontificating have any of you actually offered your 20/20 insight services to the negotiating team because if not you only have yourselves to blame if things don't go your way.Thats almost funny Roger, especially the last bit. Why is it classed as moaning having an opinion thats different to yours? We dont know for certain that any of the impact assessments or opinions of the vast majority of experts and economists will be correct that Brexit will harm our economy but when you have so many sources saying the same thing then only a fool would stand there and say "It will be alright on the night or have faith etc". The writing is on the wall for all to see. Having blind faith and going against what all the experts and think tanks say will only get you so far and now we are seeing it all fall apart as predicted. The EU who we were told would capitulate because they need us more than we need them have done no such thing and so far now the actual work needs to be done it is us dancing to their tune, again as predicted.As for your last comment the only people to blame at the end of it all is the people who took us out of the EU. Classed as moaning? Possibly because the comments coming from your side of the issue are almost always termed 'certain' or other terminology to predict certainty. So please don't misconstrue the content of my posts addressing 'moaning' simply because the poster has different views to mine. Were it not for the 'certainty' expressed by the 'we are doomed' merchants possibly the debate could be conducted in a more considered manner. An example of the type of post that delivers a 'moan' is :We will be worse of, its pretty much undeniable.It contains a statement and is looking on the black side. It is based on 'what if' and there are so many variables that the scenarios which could be 'assessed' are almost infinite and therefore meaningless.David Davies went so far as to tell the Commons Select Committee, when asked about 'predictions/fiscal studies etc' some months back that he had not commissioned any and did not intend to do so until there was something factual to support such expenditure. I believe his words were that he had no intention of wasting public money on pointless 'what if' research. Now surely, given that he is clearly better informed than we are, should his opinion not carry more weight and make more sense? As for capitulation on the part of the EU..I never for one minute felt that the EU would do so. If it had any intention of acting in such a way I would have thought that the time to do so was when Cameron delivered his requirements back in early 2016. What we have now is negotiation on a scale none of us can be remotely knowledgeable about and what goes on behind closed doors is doubtless a damn site tougher than we minions are likely to be privy to. Experts and economists have all delivered pronouncements in the past.....not many have been proven to be correct. As has been said before even Mark Carney has had to retract on a number of occasions because he got it wrong.The bottom line is no one knows what the future holds but I prefer to hope that one thing it does hold is our future as an ex member of the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 John52 - 2017-12-12 4:52 PMpelmetman - 2017-12-12 3:59 PMBarryd999 - 2017-12-12 3:44 PMRogerC - 2017-12-12 3:35 PMBarryd999 - 2017-12-12 1:09 PMHasn't the EU and the other 27 countries all done impact assessments as well? I do find it hard to believe we have not. Maybe we have and its so dire they are keeping it quiet. Trouble is everyone else has published theirs and now the Americans so the evidence is already out there. We will be worse of, its pretty much undeniable.Here we go again....moan moan moan....doomed doomed doomed. I find it amazing you remain people know for certain that Armageddon is at the end of the negotiations. How awful it must be for you to know so much....to 'undeniably' know so much and have to sit by and let the negotiating team get it all wrong.Instead of just sitting at your keyboard(s) and pontificating have any of you actually offered your 20/20 insight services to the negotiating team because if not you only have yourselves to blame if things don't go your way.Thats almost funny Roger, especially the last bit. Why is it classed as moaning having an opinion thats different to yours? Of course its moaning.......none of your Remoaner dire predictions have materialised have they? >:-) .........So now your claiming its because we haven't left yet *-) .........We have left as far as the rest of the world is concerned ;-) ........We're just bitching over who keeps the CD collection in their eyes :D ........We still have tariff and customs free trade to keep our just-in-time deliveries going.Which you won't miss until they are gone.Just like his long trips to Spain. :DI think you will find Dave that I have always maintained that the reason a lot of the predictions did not immediately materialise is because we have not left yet and that it took us nearly a year to declare that.The signs are there though. Economy not doing as well as our nearest and dearest, pound crashed straight after the referendum and inflation is now on the up. Pray that we stay in the customs union and single market at least because as John says that is when the sh1t will really hit the fan although the way its looking I reckon we will retain both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-12-12 6:42 PM The signs are there though. Economy not doing as well as our nearest and dearest, pound crashed straight after the referendum and inflation is now on the up. Pray that we stay in the customs union and single market at least because as John says that is when the sh1t will really hit the fan although the way its looking I reckon we will retain both. So the best employment figures since 1975........Exports rising.......Pound euro now at the same level or higher than it was in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 when BREXIT wasn't even a possibility ;-) ........ If that's the sh1t hitting the fan 8-) .............. Then just imagine what tariffs will do for our bottom line B-) ....... I'm really looking forward to being in deep BREXIT Doo Doo >:-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 RogerC - 2017-12-12 6:09 PM what goes on behind closed doors is doubtless a damn site tougher than we minions are likely to be privy to As the Government faces its closest vote ever today, its going to be its a matter of how much more English taxpayers borrowed money MPs from the regions can extract from Theresa May to buy Tory votes. Then how much more the EU can extract for the divorce bill. Since nobody seems that interested in looking after the English taxpayers interests I can't imagine negotiations being that tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-12-13 8:44 AM ...Pound euro now at the same level...... Brexit is bad for the Euro too. As I have said before, you need to compare it with external currencies not affected by Brexit. But that dosn't suit your agenda, does it . *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 hi, We all know there are more ways of not reaching an agreement than to just get up and walk away from the table.I am coming to believe that if the govt. cannot achieve open access to the E.U market then they believe paying any money will just be a waste and furthermore will not go down too well with the electorate. Why should we be allowed unfettered access when other countries aren't, is it that GB always thins it is more special than anyone/where else.We should be honest and say we want access and sit down and discuss the cost,not technically what is happening now. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 Well the EU have been offered E50bn as the Divorce settlement Boris Johnson said they could 'whistle for' Whether they whistled to get it I don't know. But even Johnson has changed his tune from 'whistle for it' to honuring our committments' So maybe we are finally getting a dose of realism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 John52 - 2017-12-13 10:00 AM Well the EU have been offered E50bn as the Divorce settlement Boris Johnson said they could 'whistle for' Whether they whistled to get it I don't know. But even Johnson has changed his tune from 'whistle for it' to honuring our committments' So maybe we are finally getting a dose of realism? Shock ... Horror ... Politician goes back on something they previously said ... Can't believe it ... You use Boris as an example , is he the best you can use as you and others portray him as a bit of a clown on here so surely hardly surprising he seems to have gone back on something he previously said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 Point is He has got no mandate to do this. People voted to receive £350 million a week back from the EU. They did not vote to send E50bn to the EU. Neither did they vote to send £billions more to the DUP to buy Tory votes. This is what they voted for; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 John52 - 2017-12-13 10:58 AM Point is He has got no mandate to do this. People voted to receive £350 million a week back from the EU. They did not vote to send E50bn to the EU. Neither did they vote to send £billions more to the DUP to buy Tory votes. This is what they voted for; Young people voted to have their student debt wiped out only then for Corbyn to go back on it ... Big deal thats politicians for ya on all sides ... Surely the referendum wasn't the first time you realised all of em tell porkies ??? ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-12-13 11:51 AM Young people voted to have their student debt wiped out only then for Corbyn to go back on it ... Corbyn hasn't gone back on it - he never got the opportunity to do it. And if he gets in next time he won't have the money to do it because the Tories have given it to the DUP and EU etc. Corbyn is being honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 John52 - 2017-12-13 10:00 AM Well the EU have been offered E50bn as the Divorce settlement Boris Johnson said they could 'whistle for' Whether they whistled to get it I don't know. But even Johnson has changed his tune from 'whistle for it' to honuring our committments' So maybe we are finally getting a dose of realism? Cheap at twice the price B-) ........and worth every penny if it gets us out of the EU >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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