Calor - Abusing a monopoly?

[StuartO]

I bought some LPG for home use today and a replacement 13kg cylinder and one 19kg cost me over 60 pounds, so the LPG cost me roughly twice as much as when I buy LPG to refill our MH refillables.

 

OK, so they have to transport as well as service and refill the cylinders so it will have to be more expensivebut twice as much?  And these days Calor are far more restrictive than they used to be in allowing you to swap between bottle sizes so if you do need to change size or type they are likely to impose a new rental agreement charge.  I've had Calor bottles and been swapping them for years and the flexibilty of the exchnage policy has tightened up a great deal over thet time.  Why?

 

Probably almost  no one keeps the copy of the rental agreement so if you hand a bottle back they won't give you all your "deposit" back, indeed it's only recently that they have offered to pay you anything if you have no paperwork and that's only £7.50.

 

And Calor also refuse to refill MH refillable bottles at their depots these days, when they used to do so.  They claim this is for safety reasons and I accordance with the recommendations of an industry-wide body but I think that's a spurious piece of misrepresentation of their true, purely commercial reasons for trying to make refillables unattracyive to use in UK.

 

I see Calor as a flagrant abuser of a near-monopoly market share.

 

[RogerC]

Always thought Calor was something of a money grabbing 'got the market sewn up' profit type of outfit....hence we went down the Gaslow route.  If you work out the cost of the system then the greatly reduced cost of a refill (about £16.00 per large bottle as opposed to around £36 here to get a swap over), then factor in the possible resale value of the system....or transferability to another MH it makes sense to invest in Gaslow or similar.

[pepe63xnotuse]

I suppose the fact that they are widely(ish) available, would obviously factor into their pricing..?

(there's no point having a cheap brand/supplier, if it's only available in a few places or is restricted to one region..)

How did their price compare to the likes of Floglas etc..?

https://www.flogas.co.uk/shop/cylinders/flogas-gas-cylinders

 

People (MHers) always complain about Calor (usually because they tend to compare it to their "pumped" lpg) but it they think Calor is expensive, they should take a look at Campingaz per kg...

http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/calor-gaz-907-camping-gas-refill-p94347

..£35(£40 "retail", without "Discount card"!), for only a 2.75 kg of gas!

(apologies-edited the above, as I'd incorrectly posted the link to the gas inc' cylinder price)

 

As for not handing out money for cylinders which didn't have paperwork, surely that makes sense?..otherwise any scumbag could go around pinching cylinders and just claim the "deposit" back..?

 

 

[Tracker]

I am no lover of Calor but in a free market economy they are just as free to run their business the way they see fit as we are not trade with them if we can do better elsewhere.

 

Trouble is, expensive refillables aside, and they are only really workable for the Motorhome and Camper segment of the market, I don't see anyone else stepping up to the mark with such a wide and reasonably effective UK distribution network which suggests that it can't be that profitable?

 

The cost when set against the safe secure and fairly reliable exchange bottle is still pretty favourable to many and I don't see that changing any time soon, especially in the smaller but very popular 5/6 kg and 3.9/4.5 kg sizes.

[pepe63xnotuse]

Evening Rich' ..

How are thing going with you..?

Hope all's working out to the good....?

[Tracker]

pepe63 - 2017-08-03 9:16 PM

 

Evening Rich' ..

How are thing going with you..?

Hope all's working out to the good....?

 

Hiya Pepsi, yeah fine (ish) thanks!!!

Many thanks for asking.

[nowtelse2do]

Hi Rich. Good to see you're still battling on. Good man.

 

Dave

[StuartO]

Tracker - 2017-08-04 12:03 PMI am no lover of Calor but in a free market economy they are just as free to run their business the way they see fit we are not trade with them if we can do better elsewhere.....

So it's OK to abuse a dominant, near-monopoly by trying to suppress competition and to charge exploitive prices simply because it's a "free market" economy?  But won't entrepreneurs try to exploit opportunity to disadvantage competition and use dirty business tricks if they can get away with them - and isn't that why we have to have an Office of Fair Trading and a Monopolies Commission, to prevent abuse?

 

Welcome back Tracker, I hope the rest did you some good.

 

[John52]

pepe63 - 2017-08-03 8:45 PM

 

How did their price compare to the likes of Floglas etc..?

https://www.flogas.co.uk/shop/cylinders/flogas-gas-cylinders

 

I use both Calor and Flogas 19kg Propane. So have just looked at my credit card statement. Bought on the same day last week;

Calor £34.99

Flogas £33.53

 

I use them to fill my Camping Gaz 907 Cylnders - now they really are a Rip Off. >:-)

I got them from slipping a few quid to a guy at the council waste recycling centre :-D

[malc d]

StuartO - 2017-08-04 8:29 AM So it's OK to abuse a dominant, near-monopoly by trying to suppress competition and to charge exploitive prices simply because it's a "free market" economy?  But won't entrepreneurs try to exploit opportunity to disadvantage competition and use dirty business tricks if they can get away with them - and isn't that why we have to have an Office of Fair Trading and a Monopolies Commission, to prevent abuse?

 

Welcome back Tracker, I hope the rest did you some good.

Isn't it just called ' capitalism ' ? ;-)

[Tracker]

I am not motivated enough to bother but maybe a look at Calor's annual accounts, and profit and loss balance, would give an indication of whether they are abusing the buying public or not?

 

I can only imagine the horrendous cost of distribution depots and trucks and drivers based all over the UK plus the cost of all those bottles just standing around in depots, dealers and on lorries, waiting in case someone wants one and then needing to be returned, cleaned, safety checked and refilled ready to stand around again?

 

It might be that huge capital investment that maybe persuades the likes of Flogas, probably wisely, from dabbling in the smaller sizes and enabling it to undercut Calor in the larger, and a look at Flogas's annual accounts might be revealing too?

 

I'm not on Calor's side but there does need to be a balanced discussion?

[John52]

Tracker - 2017-08-04 5:26 PM

I can only imagine the horrendous cost of distribution depots and trucks and drivers based all over the UK plus the cost of all those bottles just standing around in depots, dealers and on lorries, waiting in case someone wants one and then needing to be returned, cleaned, safety checked and refilled ready to stand around again?

Yes. Quite a cost to the retailer too - specialised storage and insurance for increased fire risk, then the store assistand has to leave the desk to go out to it so need 2 staff...

[Brian Kirby]

malc d - 2017-08-04 3:56 PM

StuartO - 2017-08-04 8:29 AM So it's OK to abuse a dominant, near-monopoly by trying to suppress competition and to charge exploitive prices simply because it's a "free market" economy?  But won't entrepreneurs try to exploit opportunity to disadvantage competition and use dirty business tricks if they can get away with them - and isn't that why we have to have an Office of Fair Trading and a Monopolies Commission, to prevent abuse?

 

Welcome back Tracker, I hope the rest did you some good.

Isn't it just called ' capitalism ' ? ;-)

It could be, depending on what you think the alternative might be! :-) I think a fairer description might be a "managed free market", though how well that works (and for whom) depends on how far the government of the day is prepared to go with the "management". Simpler, I guess, would be to just put it down to "human nature". We haven't had truly free markets for centuries, because someone always cheats the buyer. I think that was why the stocks were invented, wasn't it? :-D

[malc d]

Brian Kirby - 2017-08-05 12:33 PM

malc d - 2017-08-04 3:56 PM

StuartO - 2017-08-04 8:29 AM So it's OK to abuse a dominant, near-monopoly by trying to suppress competition and to charge exploitive prices simply because it's a "free market" economy?  But won't entrepreneurs try to exploit opportunity to disadvantage competition and use dirty business tricks if they can get away with them - and isn't that why we have to have an Office of Fair Trading and a Monopolies Commission, to prevent abuse?

 

Welcome back Tracker, I hope the rest did you some good.

Isn't it just called ' capitalism ' ? ;-)

It could be, depending on what you think the alternative might be! :-) I think a fairer description might be a "managed free market", though how well that works (and for whom) depends on how far the government of the day is prepared to go with the "management".

Managed capitalism may be the " best " system - but only if it is not entirely managed by capitalists. ;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

StuartO - 2017-08-03 6:19 PMI bought some LPG for home use today and a replacement 13kg cylinder and one 19kg cost me over 60 pounds, so the LPG cost me roughly twice as much as when I buy LPG to refill our MH refillables.

 

OK, so they have to transport as well as service and refill the cylinders so it will have to be more expensivebut twice as much?

Makes you wonder doesn't it? :-S .........Our gas man in Spain charges roughly 10 quid for a 13 kg bottle delivered to our pitch, and he seems to visit the campsite every working day B-) .......

[John52]

pelmetman - 2017-08-05 7:26 PM

Our gas man in Spain charges roughly 10 quid for a 13 kg bottle delivered to our pitch, and he seems to visit the campsite every working day B-) .......

The hardware shop opposite Albir Gardens hotel charges about that for replacement 907cylinders - half the UK price. But they refill them themselves (which is what gave me the idea) :-D