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Candlelit vigil
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userantony1969
Posted: 19 June 2017 6:38 AM
Subject: Candlelit vigil
 


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Candlelit vigil at Finsbury Mosque tonight probably ... Remember we are all stronger together ... Matter of time wasn't it
userStuartO
Posted: 19 June 2017 7:38 AM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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The initial reporting by the BBC seemed to me to be facually based (van collides with pedestrians outside mosque, one man detained by other pedestrans, now in hospital, one man dead at the scene, eight taken to three hospitals) but this morning we are getting much  more emotional and partisan coverage.

For example one angry person demanding this be regarded as terrorism with no excuses about mental health issues (otherwise all muslim attackers previously and elsewhere are mental health sufferers too) and a BBC reporter, on the basis of street interviews, raising concerns that there were multiple attackers in the van and "far right" involvement.

One of the interviewees, said to have been involved in detaining the van driver, said he struck him in the stomach to take him down and then a number of others got involved to hold him down until police arrived.  The driver is now in hospital so not clear yet how far this process of detention turned into an attack on the driver.

Van driver reported to have shouted that he wanted to kill muslims and to have "gloating" expression.  Muslims are "feeling targeted".  "Islamaphobia" being bandied about.

Somehow it seems likely that emotions will determine how the aftermath develops.



Edited by StuartO 2017-06-19 7:45 AM
userantony1969
Posted: 19 June 2017 8:23 AM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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StuartO - 2017-06-19 7:38 AM

The initial reporting by the BBC seemed to me to be facually based (van collides with pedestrians outside mosque, one man detained by other pedestrans, now in hospital, one man dead at the scene, eight taken to three hospitals) but this morning we are getting much  more emotional and partisan coverage.

For example one angry person demanding this be regarded as terrorism with no excuses about mental health issues (otherwise all muslim attackers previously and elsewhere are mental health sufferers too) and a BBC reporter, on the basis of street interviews, raising concerns that there were multiple attackers in the van and "far right" involvement.

One of the interviewees, said to have been involved in detaining the van driver, said he struck him in the stomach to take him down and then a number of others got involved to hold him down until police arrived.  The driver is now in hospital so not clear yet how far this process of detention turned into an attack on the driver.

Van driver reported to have shouted that he wanted to kill muslims and to have "gloating" expression.  Muslims are "feeling targeted".  "Islamaphobia" being bandied about.

Somehow it seems likely that emotions will determine how the aftermath develops.



Maybe like the description given to some of the individuals carrying knives looking for targets detained at times here and in Germany he has"mental health issues" ... Like Muslim terror killings you can guarantee we will get more of the same and I'm surprised it's taken this long for what is obviously some form of revenge attack .... Not all white disgruntled folk are terrorists though ! hopefully we will see a candlelit love in defending like we do wi t'others
userViolet1956
Posted: 19 June 2017 9:00 AM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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antony1969 - 2017-06-19 6:38 AM

Candlelit vigil at Finsbury Mosque tonight probably ... Remember we are all stronger together ... Matter of time wasn't it


What are you trying to say Antony –that we are “Stronger/better apart”? That displays of joint dismay and horror at gratuitous acts of violence in candlelit vigils are unhelpful?

Veronica
userantony1969
Posted: 19 June 2017 9:33 AM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 9:00 AM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 6:38 AM

Candlelit vigil at Finsbury Mosque tonight probably ... Remember we are all stronger together ... Matter of time wasn't it


What are you trying to say Antony –that we are “Stronger/better apart”? That displays of joint dismay and horror at gratuitous acts of violence in candlelit vigils are unhelpful?

Veronica


No we are stronger together of course but will that mean I have to accept the teachings of everyday Islam and take those treachings as normal for us to be "stronger together" ???

userViolet1956
Posted: 19 June 2017 9:51 AM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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antony1969 - 2017-06-19 9:33 AM

Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 9:00 AM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 6:38 AM

Candlelit vigil at Finsbury Mosque tonight probably ... Remember we are all stronger together ... Matter of time wasn't it


What are you trying to say Antony –that we are “Stronger/better apart”? That displays of joint dismay and horror at gratuitous acts of violence in candlelit vigils are unhelpful?

Veronica


......"but will that mean I have to accept the teachings of everyday Islam and take those treachings as normal for us to be "stronger together" ??? "
I don't think it does Antony. Everyone is free to follow their own conscience within the confines of the civil and criminal law. You are free to disagree with any of the teachings of Islam and to express them in any manner which is lawful.

Veronica
userStuartO
Posted: 19 June 2017 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 9:00 AM
antony1969 - 2017-06-19 6:38 AMCandlelit vigil at Finsbury Mosque tonight probably ... Remember we are all stronger together ... Matter of time wasn't it
What are you trying to say Antony –that we are “Stronger/better apart”? That displays of joint dismay and horror at gratuitous acts of violence in candlelit vigils are unhelpful? Veronica


The latest news is that an Imam protected the driver of the white van from harm as he was being "held until police came" by men from the vicinity of the mosque.  Lynching prevented?

There is also a separate story of a volunteer in Kensington who happened to be visiting  the Town Hall being set upon by protestors because he was thought to be the boss of the housing association - whom he just happened to resemble. Rent-a-Mob rule?


Edited by StuartO 2017-06-19 10:00 AM
userantony1969
Posted: 19 June 2017 10:03 AM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 9:51 AM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 9:33 AM

Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 9:00 AM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 6:38 AM

Candlelit vigil at Finsbury Mosque tonight probably ... Remember we are all stronger together ... Matter of time wasn't it


What are you trying to say Antony –that we are “Stronger/better apart”? That displays of joint dismay and horror at gratuitous acts of violence in candlelit vigils are unhelpful?

Veronica


......"but will that mean I have to accept the teachings of everyday Islam and take those treachings as normal for us to be "stronger together" ??? "
I don't think it does Antony. Everyone is free to follow their own conscience within the confines of the civil and criminal law. You are free to disagree with any of the teachings of Islam and to express them in any manner which is lawful.

Veronica


So I'm not an Islamaphobe then after all for questioning Islam
userBarryd999
Posted: 19 June 2017 10:10 AM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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Its not a "revenge" attack its another terrorist attack. As simple as that. Revenge would imply that those people mowed down have done something wrong.

Plenty of coverage on youtube including this interview with the guy that apparently apprehended the driver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC5HPzCmahY if its true sounds like it took a while for the emergency services to respond.

Lets hope that as with the other recent terrorist attacks it drives people together not apart.
userantony1969
Posted: 19 June 2017 10:32 AM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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Barryd999 - 2017-06-19 10:10 AM

Its not a "revenge" attack its another terrorist attack. As simple as that. Revenge would imply that those people mowed down have done something wrong.

Plenty of coverage on youtube including this interview with the guy that apparently apprehended the driver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC5HPzCmahY if its true sounds like it took a while for the emergency services to respond.

Lets hope that as with the other recent terrorist attacks it drives people together not apart.


If the fella himself says it's in revenge for umpteen Muslim attacks then revenge it is Barry in his eyes .... Just like those who carry out the many attacks are doing it for Islam , may hot be an Islam you want to accept but that's why they do it
userViolet1956
Posted: 19 June 2017 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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antony1969 - 2017-06-19 10:03 AM

Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 9:51 AM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 9:33 AM

Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 9:00 AM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 6:38 AM

Candlelit vigil at Finsbury Mosque tonight probably ... Remember we are all stronger together ... Matter of time wasn't it


What are you trying to say Antony –that we are “Stronger/better apart”? That displays of joint dismay and horror at gratuitous acts of violence in candlelit vigils are unhelpful?

Veronica


......"but will that mean I have to accept the teachings of everyday Islam and take those treachings as normal for us to be "stronger together" ??? "
I don't think it does Antony. Everyone is free to follow their own conscience within the confines of the civil and criminal law. You are free to disagree with any of the teachings of Islam and to express them in any manner which is lawful.

Veronica


So I'm not an Islamaphobe then after all for questioning Islam


I googled "Islamophobia" and found one definition that I think is the simplest. I'm in no position to judge whether you are an Islamophobe or not. If this definition ties in with your feelings about Muslims it is your call

"The term "Islamophobia" was first introduced as a concept in a 1991 Runnymede Trust Report and defined as "unfounded hostility towards Muslims, and therefore fear or dislike of all or most Muslims.""

Veronica
userantony1969
Posted: 19 June 2017 10:43 AM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 10:35 AM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 10:03 AM

Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 9:51 AM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 9:33 AM

Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 9:00 AM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 6:38 AM

Candlelit vigil at Finsbury Mosque tonight probably ... Remember we are all stronger together ... Matter of time wasn't it


What are you trying to say Antony –that we are “Stronger/better apart”? That displays of joint dismay and horror at gratuitous acts of violence in candlelit vigils are unhelpful?

Veronica


......"but will that mean I have to accept the teachings of everyday Islam and take those treachings as normal for us to be "stronger together" ??? "
I don't think it does Antony. Everyone is free to follow their own conscience within the confines of the civil and criminal law. You are free to disagree with any of the teachings of Islam and to express them in any manner which is lawful.

Veronica


So I'm not an Islamaphobe then after all for questioning Islam


I googled "Islamophobia" and found one definition that I think is the simplest. I'm in no position to judge whether you are an Islamophobe or not. If this definition ties in with your feelings about Muslims it is your call

"The term "Islamophobia" was first introduced as a concept in a 1991 Runnymede Trust Report and defined as "unfounded hostility towards Muslims, and therefore fear or dislike of all or most Muslims.""

Veronica


Well my hostility comes from the teachings of its book towards others so I do have grounds for that and I couldn't possibly dislike all Muslims as I'm never going to meet all Muslims to form that opinion am I ? ... So I presume the name doesn't count for me ... Can you find the word that would best describe a religion that is intolerant of gays and non-believers and says death is the punishment for leaving the religion ?
userBulletguy
Posted: 19 June 2017 10:53 AM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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It says in this report the van driver "will also be subject of a mental health assessment in due course."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/van-pedestrians-hit-run-over-casualties-latest-police-finsbury-park-mosque-muslims-seven-sisters-a7796551.html

Also, Witness Hussain Ali, 28, said that, while being restrained, the man was protected by the people he is thought to have been targeting. 'People were hitting [the attacker] and the Imam came out to tell them not to and to call the police.'

He said: “The leader of the mosque said: ‘You do not touch him’. He was sitting and holding him like that, people kept holding him. “There was a man in a wheelchair, a man underneath the van, it was hell. People who were inside saw the attacker was smiling, he was waving, he was happy."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/19/north-london-van-incident-finsbury-park-casualties-collides-pedestrians-live-updates
userantony1969
Posted: 19 June 2017 11:32 AM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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Bulletguy - 2017-06-19 10:53 AM


It says in this report the van driver "will also be subject of a mental health assessment in due course."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/van-pedestrians-hit-run-over-casualties-latest-police-finsbury-park-mosque-muslims-seven-sisters-a7796551.html

Also, Witness Hussain Ali, 28, said that, while being restrained, the man was protected by the people he is thought to have been targeting. 'People were hitting [the attacker] and the Imam came out to tell them not to and to call the police.'

He said: “The leader of the mosque said: ‘You do not touch him’. He was sitting and holding him like that, people kept holding him. “There was a man in a wheelchair, a man underneath the van, it was hell. People who were inside saw the attacker was smiling, he was waving, he was happy."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/19/north-london-van-incident-finsbury-park-casualties-collides-pedestrians-live-updates



Isn't telling them to stop beating him up and call the police the normal thing to do ? After all he may have mental health issues
userStuartO
Posted: 19 June 2017 12:32 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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What makes a revenge attack an act of terrorism involving racial and/or religious hatred?

Our Prime Minister has just put the attack on muslim pedestrians near Finsbury Mosque in the same category (of terrorism) as earlier attacks (by muslims, on non-muslims) and praised those who apprehended the van driver - without any hint of concern that in doing do they committed an unrelenting mass assault (causing the driver to need to go to hospital) curtailed only by an imam's efforts to get them to show restraint and call the police.  It sounds like a lynch mob was forming, but our PM doesn't want that possibility raised.

We don't yet know whether this van driver was acting alone and/or in personal revenge rather than as part of any terror group scheme yet the incident is being called terrorism regardless.

I believe that we are where we are with jihadist terrorism because we have been too tolerant of passive acceptance and unwilliness to accept citizens' responsibility within the UK muslim community and it will do no good at all to keep pretending any different.  If the muslims who apprehended this van driver went OTT in any way we should deal with that rather than hide it from view.
userBarryd999
Posted: 19 June 2017 1:17 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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antony1969 - 2017-06-19 10:32 AM

Barryd999 - 2017-06-19 10:10 AM

Its not a "revenge" attack its another terrorist attack. As simple as that. Revenge would imply that those people mowed down have done something wrong.

Plenty of coverage on youtube including this interview with the guy that apparently apprehended the driver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC5HPzCmahY if its true sounds like it took a while for the emergency services to respond.

Lets hope that as with the other recent terrorist attacks it drives people together not apart.


If the fella himself says it's in revenge for umpteen Muslim attacks then revenge it is Barry in his eyes .... Just like those who carry out the many attacks are doing it for Islam , may hot be an Islam you want to accept but that's why they do it


Hang on a minute. In past debates the opinion (including yours I think but I stand to be corrected) was that the Islamist terror attacks were nothing to do with revenge but simply because they hate us so much because we are not Muslims. Cant have it both ways.

It is a Terrorist attack.
userantony1969
Posted: 19 June 2017 1:35 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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Barryd999 - 2017-06-19 1:17 PM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 10:32 AM

Barryd999 - 2017-06-19 10:10 AM

Its not a "revenge" attack its another terrorist attack. As simple as that. Revenge would imply that those people mowed down have done something wrong.

Plenty of coverage on youtube including this interview with the guy that apparently apprehended the driver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC5HPzCmahY if its true sounds like it took a while for the emergency services to respond.

Lets hope that as with the other recent terrorist attacks it drives people together not apart.


If the fella himself says it's in revenge for umpteen Muslim attacks then revenge it is Barry in his eyes .... Just like those who carry out the many attacks are doing it for Islam , may hot be an Islam you want to accept but that's why they do it


Hang on a minute. In past debates the opinion (including yours I think but I stand to be corrected) was that the Islamist terror attacks were nothing to do with revenge but simply because they hate us so much because we are not Muslims. Cant have it both ways.

It is a Terrorist attack.


I don't want it both ways ... if last nights attack was not revenge then what was it for Christian slaughter of non-believers of Christianity I presume ? .... Regarding the many Muslim attacks IMO the main reason for those slaughters is that we ( maybe you are ) are not believers of Islam and therefore we are worse than vermin to them .... If the Muslim murders are carried out like you say in revenge then why have countries who've had no part in wars been targets ?
userViolet1956
Posted: 19 June 2017 3:05 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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antony1969 - 2017-06-19 10:43 AM

Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 10:35 AM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 10:03 AM

Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 9:51 AM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 9:33 AM

Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 9:00 AM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 6:38 AM

Candlelit vigil at Finsbury Mosque tonight probably ... Remember we are all stronger together ... Matter of time wasn't it


What are you trying to say Antony –that we are “Stronger/better apart”? That displays of joint dismay and horror at gratuitous acts of violence in candlelit vigils are unhelpful?

Veronica


......"but will that mean I have to accept the teachings of everyday Islam and take those treachings as normal for us to be "stronger together" ??? "
I don't think it does Antony. Everyone is free to follow their own conscience within the confines of the civil and criminal law. You are free to disagree with any of the teachings of Islam and to express them in any manner which is lawful.

Veronica


So I'm not an Islamaphobe then after all for questioning Islam


I googled "Islamophobia" and found one definition that I think is the simplest. I'm in no position to judge whether you are an Islamophobe or not. If this definition ties in with your feelings about Muslims it is your call

"The term "Islamophobia" was first introduced as a concept in a 1991 Runnymede Trust Report and defined as "unfounded hostility towards Muslims, and therefore fear or dislike of all or most Muslims.""

Veronica


Well my hostility comes from the teachings of its book towards others so I do have grounds for that and I couldn't possibly dislike all Muslims as I'm never going to meet all Muslims to form that opinion am I ? ... So I presume the name doesn't count for me ... Can you find the word that would best describe a religion that is intolerant of gays and non-believers and says death is the punishment for leaving the religion ?


The definition starts with unfounded hostility towards Muslims Antony not unfounded hostility towards anything in Muslim Holy Books.

I would describe people who believe that homosexual relationships are sinful or bad as wrong. If anyone goes as far as teaching others that people should die because of their sexual orientation or because they have renounced their religion they are a criminal in the eyes of our law. People commit offences, books written centuries ago don’t.

I suspect, correct me if I am wrong, that you have a genuine and understandable fear that there is widespread teaching in Mosques and faith schools that propagate beliefs that are not only capable of creating division but also contrary to our criminal law. Those who teach others to have no respect for the people who disagree with their beliefs have rightly come under scrutiny. Where there is evidence that they are abusing the freedom of thought conscience and religion that our society confers on everyone they should not be allowed to hold any position or office which allows them to influence others. As far as the propagation of fundamentalist Islamic teaching is concerned the governing bodies of Mosques and schools and hosts of social media all have a part to play. It is my belief that both need to demonstrate to all of us that they are taking the necessary action to eradicate fundamentalist teaching and propaganda. They also have to demonstrate a willingness to submit to the oversight of independent bodies given the power to close them down unless they demonstrate that they are doing all that they can. They owe it to the all the innocent people of every faith and none.

Veronica
userantony1969
Posted: 19 June 2017 3:43 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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Excellent post Veronica !
userViolet1956
Posted: 19 June 2017 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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antony1969 - 2017-06-19 3:43 PM

Excellent post Veronica !


Thank you Antony. Here's an article written by a Muslim in much the same vein. I hope you're not reading these posts on top of that church roof.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/islam-british-muslims-extremist-terrorism-islamophobia-reclaim-identity-a7667551.html

Veronica
userBarryd999
Posted: 19 June 2017 5:43 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 4:05 PM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 3:43 PM

Excellent post Veronica !


Thank you Antony. Here's an article written by a Muslim in much the same vein. I hope you're not reading these posts on top of that church roof.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/islam-british-muslims-extremist-terrorism-islamophobia-reclaim-identity-a7667551.html

Veronica


No, I heard he was now in the park having liberated those poor people of their Borbons and cider.
userBarryd999
Posted: 19 June 2017 5:50 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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antony1969 - 2017-06-19 1:35 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-06-19 1:17 PM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 10:32 AM

Barryd999 - 2017-06-19 10:10 AM

Its not a "revenge" attack its another terrorist attack. As simple as that. Revenge would imply that those people mowed down have done something wrong.

Plenty of coverage on youtube including this interview with the guy that apparently apprehended the driver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC5HPzCmahY if its true sounds like it took a while for the emergency services to respond.

Lets hope that as with the other recent terrorist attacks it drives people together not apart.


If the fella himself says it's in revenge for umpteen Muslim attacks then revenge it is Barry in his eyes .... Just like those who carry out the many attacks are doing it for Islam , may hot be an Islam you want to accept but that's why they do it


Hang on a minute. In past debates the opinion (including yours I think but I stand to be corrected) was that the Islamist terror attacks were nothing to do with revenge but simply because they hate us so much because we are not Muslims. Cant have it both ways.

It is a Terrorist attack.


I don't want it both ways ... if last nights attack was not revenge then what was it for Christian slaughter of non-believers of Christianity I presume ? .... Regarding the many Muslim attacks IMO the main reason for those slaughters is that we ( maybe you are ) are not believers of Islam and therefore we are worse than vermin to them .... If the Muslim murders are carried out like you say in revenge then why have countries who've had no part in wars been targets ?


I Think we are getting hung up on terminology. The Moron that did it might think its a revenge attack but as far as anyone else is concerned its another terrorist attack and nothing more. As far as we know nobody mowed down has done anything wrong. The bloke is clearly as bonkers as the idiots that carried out the attacks in Manchester and London.

I never said Muslim murders are carried out in Revenge but according to the ISIS handbook which I have read it is part of the reason but your right, they just hate everyone. The word Hate features a lot in their literature. The sooner they and those that support them are wiped off the face of the planet the better if you ask me. Just like you and I wouldnt get in a van though and start mowing people down neither would those that were peacefully going about their prayers and meetings last night. Hopefully this latest event will draw us closer not further apart.
userBulletguy
Posted: 19 June 2017 6:56 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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antony1969 - 2017-06-19 11:32 AM

Bulletguy - 2017-06-19 10:53 AM


It says in this report the van driver "will also be subject of a mental health assessment in due course."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/van-pedestrians-hit-run-over-casualties-latest-police-finsbury-park-mosque-muslims-seven-sisters-a7796551.html

Also, Witness Hussain Ali, 28, said that, while being restrained, the man was protected by the people he is thought to have been targeting. 'People were hitting [the attacker] and the Imam came out to tell them not to and to call the police.'

He said: “The leader of the mosque said: ‘You do not touch him’. He was sitting and holding him like that, people kept holding him. “There was a man in a wheelchair, a man underneath the van, it was hell. People who were inside saw the attacker was smiling, he was waving, he was happy."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/19/north-london-van-incident-finsbury-park-casualties-collides-pedestrians-live-updates



Isn't telling them to stop beating him up and call the police the normal thing to do ? After all he may have mental health issues.

The authorities have had their checker chart out.

His name is Darren Osbourne, 47 year old father of four from Wales.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/19/finsbury-park-suspect-named-as-father-of-four-darren-osborne-6720145/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/19/north-london-van-incident-finsbury-park-casualties-collides-pedestrians-live-updates



(Terrorist checker.jpg)



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userBulletguy
Posted: 19 June 2017 7:26 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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Barryd999 - 2017-06-19 5:50 PM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 1:35 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-06-19 1:17 PM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 10:32 AM

Barryd999 - 2017-06-19 10:10 AM

Its not a "revenge" attack its another terrorist attack. As simple as that. Revenge would imply that those people mowed down have done something wrong.

Plenty of coverage on youtube including this interview with the guy that apparently apprehended the driver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC5HPzCmahY if its true sounds like it took a while for the emergency services to respond.

Lets hope that as with the other recent terrorist attacks it drives people together not apart.


If the fella himself says it's in revenge for umpteen Muslim attacks then revenge it is Barry in his eyes .... Just like those who carry out the many attacks are doing it for Islam , may hot be an Islam you want to accept but that's why they do it


Hang on a minute. In past debates the opinion (including yours I think but I stand to be corrected) was that the Islamist terror attacks were nothing to do with revenge but simply because they hate us so much because we are not Muslims. Cant have it both ways.

It is a Terrorist attack.


I don't want it both ways ... if last nights attack was not revenge then what was it for Christian slaughter of non-believers of Christianity I presume ? .... Regarding the many Muslim attacks IMO the main reason for those slaughters is that we ( maybe you are ) are not believers of Islam and therefore we are worse than vermin to them .... If the Muslim murders are carried out like you say in revenge then why have countries who've had no part in wars been targets ?


I Think we are getting hung up on terminology. The Moron that did it might think its a revenge attack but as far as anyone else is concerned its another terrorist attack and nothing more. As far as we know nobody mowed down has done anything wrong. The bloke is clearly as bonkers as the idiots that carried out the attacks in Manchester and London.

I never said Muslim murders are carried out in Revenge but according to the ISIS handbook which I have read it is part of the reason but your right, they just hate everyone. The word Hate features a lot in their literature.

Which could be interpreted as "dislike" or "prejudice of" which is Islamophobia, Homophobia etc etc.....phobia being "an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to". It eventually turns to hatred burning within the mind.

As cranky and slightly wacko George Galloway maybe i listened to an interview with him on the radio some years back during which he said the following; "terrorism is a state of mind which feeds off hatred.......you cannot ever stop terrorism with bombs and bullets. You need to get inside the mindset of the terrorist to find what makes them hate."

Whilst Islamophobes are not terrorists......you can apply Galloways theory and ask what it is they fear and why they are filled with so much hatred....and i'm not talking about IS terrorists, i'm talking about people who hate or dislike Muslims per se. People with this 'irrational fear' or 'aversion' have got to learn to separate IS terrorism from Muslims as a whole.
userantony1969
Posted: 19 June 2017 7:28 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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Bulletguy - 2017-06-19 6:56 PM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 11:32 AM

Bulletguy - 2017-06-19 10:53 AM


It says in this report the van driver "will also be subject of a mental health assessment in due course."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/van-pedestrians-hit-run-over-casualties-latest-police-finsbury-park-mosque-muslims-seven-sisters-a7796551.html

Also, Witness Hussain Ali, 28, said that, while being restrained, the man was protected by the people he is thought to have been targeting. 'People were hitting [the attacker] and the Imam came out to tell them not to and to call the police.'

He said: “The leader of the mosque said: ‘You do not touch him’. He was sitting and holding him like that, people kept holding him. “There was a man in a wheelchair, a man underneath the van, it was hell. People who were inside saw the attacker was smiling, he was waving, he was happy."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/19/north-london-van-incident-finsbury-park-casualties-collides-pedestrians-live-updates



Isn't telling them to stop beating him up and call the police the normal thing to do ? After all he may have mental health issues.

The authorities have had their checker chart out.

His name is Darren Osbourne, 47 year old father of four from Wales.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/19/finsbury-park-suspect-named-as-father-of-four-darren-osborne-6720145/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/19/north-london-van-incident-finsbury-park-casualties-collides-pedestrians-live-updates


Wonder which Church he attended and which radical preaching Priest twisted his mind ... Did anyone hear him shouting Jesus Is Great while driving over them Muslims
userantony1969
Posted: 19 June 2017 7:36 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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Bulletguy - 2017-06-19 7:26 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-06-19 5:50 PM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 1:35 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-06-19 1:17 PM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 10:32 AM

Barryd999 - 2017-06-19 10:10 AM

Its not a "revenge" attack its another terrorist attack. As simple as that. Revenge would imply that those people mowed down have done something wrong.

Plenty of coverage on youtube including this interview with the guy that apparently apprehended the driver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC5HPzCmahY if its true sounds like it took a while for the emergency services to respond.

Lets hope that as with the other recent terrorist attacks it drives people together not apart.


If the fella himself says it's in revenge for umpteen Muslim attacks then revenge it is Barry in his eyes .... Just like those who carry out the many attacks are doing it for Islam , may hot be an Islam you want to accept but that's why they do it


Hang on a minute. In past debates the opinion (including yours I think but I stand to be corrected) was that the Islamist terror attacks were nothing to do with revenge but simply because they hate us so much because we are not Muslims. Cant have it both ways.

It is a Terrorist attack.


I don't want it both ways ... if last nights attack was not revenge then what was it for Christian slaughter of non-believers of Christianity I presume ? .... Regarding the many Muslim attacks IMO the main reason for those slaughters is that we ( maybe you are ) are not believers of Islam and therefore we are worse than vermin to them .... If the Muslim murders are carried out like you say in revenge then why have countries who've had no part in wars been targets ?


I Think we are getting hung up on terminology. The Moron that did it might think its a revenge attack but as far as anyone else is concerned its another terrorist attack and nothing more. As far as we know nobody mowed down has done anything wrong. The bloke is clearly as bonkers as the idiots that carried out the attacks in Manchester and London.

I never said Muslim murders are carried out in Revenge but according to the ISIS handbook which I have read it is part of the reason but your right, they just hate everyone. The word Hate features a lot in their literature.

Which could be interpreted as "dislike" or "prejudice of" which is Islamophobia, Homophobia etc etc.....phobia being "an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to". It eventually turns to hatred burning within the mind.

As cranky and slightly wacko George Galloway maybe i listened to an interview with him on the radio some years back during which he said the following; "terrorism is a state of mind which feeds off hatred.......you cannot ever stop terrorism with bombs and bullets. You need to get inside the mindset of the terrorist to find what makes them hate."

Whilst Islamophobes are not terrorists......you can apply Galloways theory and ask what it is they fear and why they are filled with so much hatred....and i'm not talking about IS terrorists, i'm talking about people who hate or dislike Muslims per se. People with this 'irrational fear' or 'aversion' have got to learn to separate IS terrorism from Muslims as a whole.



Mmmm George Galloway friend to Hamas and Hezbollah ... Didn't he receive a Palestinian passport ??? ... Buddy of Sadam Hussein too if I remember correctly ... He's loved in Bradford of course especially the Muslims who loved it when he pronounced Bradford as an "Israeli free zone" ... Nice man
userBulletguy
Posted: 19 June 2017 8:27 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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antony1969 - 2017-06-19 7:28 PM

Wonder which Church he attended and which radical preaching Priest twisted his mind ... Did anyone hear him shouting Jesus Is Great while driving over them Muslims.

Not all terrorists go to Church. And yes, it is officially being treated by Police as a terrorist incident.

Also your attempt at humour within a thread such as this is doing little to convince other readers that you are not Islamophobic either. From previous postings i personally believe you are. Your dislike of/aversion to Muslims is all too apparent and other posters have noted the same.


antony1969 - 2017-06-19 7:36 PM

Mmmm George Galloway friend to Hamas and Hezbollah ... Didn't he receive a Palestinian passport ??? ... Buddy of Sadam Hussein too if I remember correctly ... He's loved in Bradford of course especially the Muslims who loved it when he pronounced Bradford as an "Israeli free zone" ... Nice man

Mmmm Margaret Thatcher bosom pal and "terrorist sympathiser" to Pinochet....fascist dictator and mass murderer whose military forces tortured thousands many of which remain "disappeared" to this day.

Mud sling all you like Antony......as long as you remember it has a nasty habit of coming back to bite you.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/tories-have-forgotten-that-thatcher-wasnt-just-a-terrorist-sympathiser-but-close-friends-with-one-10507850.html
userantony1969
Posted: 19 June 2017 8:45 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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Bulletguy - 2017-06-19 8:27 PM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 7:28 PM

Wonder which Church he attended and which radical preaching Priest twisted his mind ... Did anyone hear him shouting Jesus Is Great while driving over them Muslims.

Not all terrorists go to Church. And yes, it is officially being treated by Police as a terrorist incident.

Also your attempt at humour within a thread such as this is doing little to convince other readers that you are not Islamophobic either. From previous postings i personally believe you are. Your dislike of/aversion to Muslims is all too apparent and other posters have noted the same.


antony1969 - 2017-06-19 7:36 PM

Mmmm George Galloway friend to Hamas and Hezbollah ... Didn't he receive a Palestinian passport ??? ... Buddy of Sadam Hussein too if I remember correctly ... He's loved in Bradford of course especially the Muslims who loved it when he pronounced Bradford as an "Israeli free zone" ... Nice man

Mmmm Margaret Thatcher bosom pal and "terrorist sympathiser" to Pinochet....fascist dictator and mass murderer whose military forces tortured thousands many of which remain "disappeared" to this day.

Mud sling all you like Antony......as long as you remember it has a nasty habit of coming back to bite you.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/tories-have-forgotten-that-thatcher-wasnt-just-a-terrorist-sympathiser-but-close-friends-with-one-10507850.html


But I'm not using Mrs Thatcher to try to prove a point Bullet so once again its a big fail from you ... Regarding what you or others think of me on here I'm not going to lose any sleep over it fella ... You on the other hand obviously do as you threatened legal proceedings did you not when ya didn't like the term Muslim peado apologist banded about ... Touchy touchy
userpelmetman
Posted: 19 June 2017 10:25 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 9:00 AM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 6:38 AM

Candlelit vigil at Finsbury Mosque tonight probably ... Remember we are all stronger together ... Matter of time wasn't it


What are you trying to say Antony –that we are “Stronger/better apart”? That displays of joint dismay and horror at gratuitous acts of violence in candlelit vigils are unhelpful?

Veronica


Dunno what difference lighting a few candles, and the happy clappy clan holding another vigil is going to make? .......

It's the new reality Veronica, the one the PC brigade have tried to pretend wasn't happening .......

userBarryd999
Posted: 19 June 2017 11:12 PM
Subject: RE: Candlelit vigil
 


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pelmetman - 2017-06-19 10:25 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-06-19 9:00 AM

antony1969 - 2017-06-19 6:38 AM

Candlelit vigil at Finsbury Mosque tonight probably ... Remember we are all stronger together ... Matter of time wasn't it


What are you trying to say Antony –that we are “Stronger/better apart”? That displays of joint dismay and horror at gratuitous acts of violence in candlelit vigils are unhelpful?

Veronica


Dunno what difference lighting a few candles, and the happy clappy clan holding another vigil is going to make? .......

It's the new reality Veronica, the one the PC brigade have tried to pretend wasn't happening .......



So you dont support people being united from all faiths and refusing to be divided by evil nutcases? What should they do then? Maybe the Mail will lead tomorrow with a suggestion that all white people denounce this bloke as not being like the rest of us.

Yes there is going to be the odd nutcase like him but generally these attacks have brought people together more or at least thats how it appears. Isnt that very British? I think it is. I think we should be proud of the way people have reacted in the main to the events of the past few weeks.
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