Bulletguy Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Two incidents of 'Diplomatic' cars from RAF Croughton, the base from where Anne Sacoolas killed biker Harry Dunn last year, have since been witnessed driving on the wrong side of the road. One even crashed into a police car! *-) Police have now requested an urgent meeting with the base commander at RAF Croughton to discuss safety on the roads around the base. https://news.sky.com/story/police-probe-footage-of-car-on-wrong-side-of-road-near-harry-dunn-raf-base-11911578 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 It’s not rocket science, I don’t understand why the Americans find it so difficult to drive on the opposite side of the road here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 ... https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/motorists-who-forget-drive-right-7608231 ... https://www.thelocal.de/20160506/british-driver-seriously-hurt-after-driving-on-the-left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 Just been talking to a relative who lives at Croughton who told me cars from the base driving on the wrong side of the road is fairly common. The local authority have put Drive on the Left signs on the road by the base...but they are on the left side of the road so folk already on the wrong side don't really notice them. But he doesn't have much faith with Northamptonshire police either. Last year he was involved in a serious road accident just north of Croughton when a woman pulled out of a crossroad without looking. Police and Ambulance attended and though her insurance admitted liability and settled the claim, he was astounded police never breathalysed her which is normal procedure in rta's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 For those of us who have spent many years living near US bases it's pretty common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 colin - 2020-01-22 8:20 PM For those of us who have spent many years living near US bases it's pretty common. Police need to crack down harder on them then, just as they do with foreign plated cars (usually PL or RO) which have been in the country more than six months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les W Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 I think one of the issues is that they bring their own (LHD) cars with them, so they are lulled into a false sense of 'security'. An American woman speaking on yesterdays news more or less said this, she has a problem driving her own car in the UK because of sitting on the 'wrong side'. So they should be compelled to drive RHD cars. I'm now retired, but my job used to involve me visiting (electric) sub-stations all over Suffolk, the poor driving around Mildenhall and Lakenheath, in USA reg. cars was very noticable, particularly among the females. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 According to CND the US currently has 24.000 US military and civilian staff in the UK ... All of a sudden because of 1 death we obviously have a major problem ... Or maybe its just the OP has an anti-American problem ... I know which I favour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 Les W - 2020-01-23 12:24 PM I think one of the issues is that they bring their own (LHD) cars with them, so they are lulled into a false sense of 'security'. An American woman speaking on yesterdays news more or less said this, she has a problem driving her own car in the UK because of sitting on the 'wrong side'. So they should be compelled to drive RHD cars. I'm now retired, but my job used to involve me visiting (electric) sub-stations all over Suffolk, the poor driving around Mildenhall and Lakenheath, in USA reg. cars was very noticable, particularly among the females. According to my cousin who lives in Croughton the majority of cars are owned by the base and easily recognised by the format of their plates which are different to UK, but all the cars are RHD. Only a few privately owned US are lhd. I've driven LHD in UK and RHD in Europe. I probably concentrated more whilst driving in Europe than UK as i know how easy it is to end up on the wrong side! I remember one year returning back to UK on the ferry chatting with a young Polish truck driver who had a delivery to make in Birmingham, a collection at Coventry, then return back to Poland. It was his first time driving on the left and he was really worried how he would handle it. I told him once he was off the ferry there was no way he could drive on the wrong side as the dual carriageway out of Dover is separated by concrete barrier and once on the motorway, he'd have armco barriers separating each side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 Had Sacoolas abided by the law instead of fleeing the country, this is likely what she'd have ended up with. This lady at least had the moral decency to face the courts for her offence. https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/17960002.american-tourist-spared-jail-causing-fatal-crash-driving-wrong-side-road/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-01-23 4:53 PM Had Sacoolas abided by the law instead of fleeing the country, this is likely what she'd have ended up with. This lady at least had the moral decency to face the courts for her offence. https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/17960002.american-tourist-spared-jail-causing-fatal-crash-driving-wrong-side-road/ She had moral decency? But she may have attended court because she had no choice as she had no diplomatic immunity. If she had diplomatic immunity who knows what she would have done? Except you who obviously has a crystal ball. You have never once started a thread about the biggest child abuse scandal in our history and even now you're still in denial about the role of Pakistani Muslims and Islam and its culture and customs and how those customs and attitudes have definitely been the driving force in all these grooming scandals in several towns and cities. Yet some Jewish boys are accused of rape, an American women lapses for two minutes behind the wheel of her car and guess who can't wait to highlight these reports and start a thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-01-23 2:00 PM According to CND the US currently has 24.000 US military and civilian staff in the UK ... All of a sudden because of 1 death we obviously have a major problem ... Or maybe its just the OP has an anti-American problem ... I know which I favour Me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-23 4:08 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-23 4:53 PM Had Sacoolas abided by the law instead of fleeing the country, this is likely what she'd have ended up with. This lady at least had the moral decency to face the courts for her offence. https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/17960002.american-tourist-spared-jail-causing-fatal-crash-driving-wrong-side-road/ She had moral decency? But she may have attended court because she had no choice as she had no diplomatic immunity. If she had diplomatic immunity who knows what she would have done? Except you who obviously has a crystal ball. Anne Sacoolas who killed Harry Dunn wasn't entitled to diplomatic immunity as her husband wasn't even listed as a diplomat. As for your attempt to hijack the thread with a totally irrelevant deflection, you're utterly disgusting and should be ashamed of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-01-23 5:21 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-23 4:08 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-23 4:53 PM Had Sacoolas abided by the law instead of fleeing the country, this is likely what she'd have ended up with. This lady at least had the moral decency to face the courts for her offence. https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/17960002.american-tourist-spared-jail-causing-fatal-crash-driving-wrong-side-road/ She had moral decency? But she may have attended court because she had no choice as she had no diplomatic immunity. If she had diplomatic immunity who knows what she would have done? Except you who obviously has a crystal ball. Anne Sacoolas who killed Harry Dunn wasn't entitled to diplomatic immunity as her husband wasn't even listed as a diplomat. As for your attempt to hijack the thread with a totally irrelevant deflection, you're utterly disgusting and should be ashamed of yourself. You missed quoting the best bits as usual ... How is bringing up what you defend hijacking a thread princess or being "utterly disgusting" ... Your a strange hater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-01-23 6:21 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-23 4:08 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-23 4:53 PM Had Sacoolas abided by the law instead of fleeing the country, this is likely what she'd have ended up with. This lady at least had the moral decency to face the courts for her offence. https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/17960002.american-tourist-spared-jail-causing-fatal-crash-driving-wrong-side-road/ She had moral decency? But she may have attended court because she had no choice as she had no diplomatic immunity. If she had diplomatic immunity who knows what she would have done? Except you who obviously has a crystal ball. Anne Sacoolas who killed Harry Dunn wasn't entitled to diplomatic immunity as her husband wasn't even listed as a diplomat. As for your attempt to hijack the thread with a totally irrelevant deflection, you're utterly disgusting and should be ashamed of yourself. Stop being such a drama queen you clown. Every single report I've read describes him as a diplomat. Then there's this: 'Diplomatic immunity usually only covers diplomats and their dependents based in London. But a special agreement has been in place since 1994 that covers diplomats working at RAF Croughton, according to Sky News.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-01-23 6:35 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-23 5:21 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-23 4:08 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-23 4:53 PM Had Sacoolas abided by the law instead of fleeing the country, this is likely what she'd have ended up with. This lady at least had the moral decency to face the courts for her offence. https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/17960002.american-tourist-spared-jail-causing-fatal-crash-driving-wrong-side-road/ She had moral decency? But she may have attended court because she had no choice as she had no diplomatic immunity. If she had diplomatic immunity who knows what she would have done? Except you who obviously has a crystal ball. Anne Sacoolas who killed Harry Dunn wasn't entitled to diplomatic immunity as her husband wasn't even listed as a diplomat. As for your attempt to hijack the thread with a totally irrelevant deflection, you're utterly disgusting and should be ashamed of yourself. You missed quoting the best bits as usual ... How is bringing up what you defend hijacking a thread princess or being "utterly disgusting" ... Your a strange hater It's called 'whataboutery' and it's what he does when he's been found out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-23 5:47 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-23 6:21 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-23 4:08 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-23 4:53 PM Had Sacoolas abided by the law instead of fleeing the country, this is likely what she'd have ended up with. This lady at least had the moral decency to face the courts for her offence. https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/17960002.american-tourist-spared-jail-causing-fatal-crash-driving-wrong-side-road/ She had moral decency? But she may have attended court because she had no choice as she had no diplomatic immunity. If she had diplomatic immunity who knows what she would have done? Except you who obviously has a crystal ball. Anne Sacoolas who killed Harry Dunn wasn't entitled to diplomatic immunity as her husband wasn't even listed as a diplomat. As for your attempt to hijack the thread with a totally irrelevant deflection, you're utterly disgusting and should be ashamed of yourself. Stop being such a drama queen you clown. Every single report I've read describes him as a diplomat. Then there's this: 'Diplomatic immunity usually only covers diplomats and their dependents based in London. But a special agreement has been in place since 1994 that covers diplomats working at RAF Croughton, according to Sky News.' I shall repeat what I have posted on previous threads. He was a Intelligence Officer, they are 'ten a penny', there are thousands of them, they are employed by the USAF and are not diplomats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-23 5:47 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-23 6:21 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-23 4:08 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-23 4:53 PM Had Sacoolas abided by the law instead of fleeing the country, this is likely what she'd have ended up with. This lady at least had the moral decency to face the courts for her offence. https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/17960002.american-tourist-spared-jail-causing-fatal-crash-driving-wrong-side-road/ She had moral decency? But she may have attended court because she had no choice as she had no diplomatic immunity. If she had diplomatic immunity who knows what she would have done? Except you who obviously has a crystal ball. Anne Sacoolas who killed Harry Dunn wasn't entitled to diplomatic immunity as her husband wasn't even listed as a diplomat. As for your attempt to hijack the thread with a totally irrelevant deflection, you're utterly disgusting and should be ashamed of yourself. Stop being such a drama queen you clown. Every single report I've read describes him as a diplomat. Being "described" as a diplomat does not make him one you clown and even having diplomatic immunity is only procedural in nature – it does not exonerate anyone from criminal responsibility. Mr Sacoolas does not have, and has never had, any entitlement to diplomatic immunity in international law. Sacoolas worked as an NSA technical officer at the communications interceptions post at RAF Croughton. Read the article including the embedded links; https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/10/jonathan-sacoolas-is-not-and-has-never-been-a-diplomat/ The Home Office have issued an extradition request now anyway though quite why the US feels it "inappropriate" for one of their citizens to face justice is disgraceful. The US demanded the return of a genuine diplomat from Georgia who mowed down and killed a teenage girl in Washington, only to then do a Sacoolas and flee back to his country....who promptly stripped him of his diplomat status and sent him back to the US where he was given a prison sentence. The US would do well to think on of that example and put Sacoolas on the next plane back to UK. You seem to think because she's American she is 'special' and beyond a countries laws. She isn't.....and having read many comments on sm from US citizens she has very little support and zero sympathy, infact most were disgusted by what she had done and felt she had brought shame on her country. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-51071788 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 colin - 2020-01-23 6:52 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-23 5:47 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-23 6:21 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-23 4:08 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-23 4:53 PM Had Sacoolas abided by the law instead of fleeing the country, this is likely what she'd have ended up with. This lady at least had the moral decency to face the courts for her offence. https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/17960002.american-tourist-spared-jail-causing-fatal-crash-driving-wrong-side-road/ She had moral decency? But she may have attended court because she had no choice as she had no diplomatic immunity. If she had diplomatic immunity who knows what she would have done? Except you who obviously has a crystal ball. Anne Sacoolas who killed Harry Dunn wasn't entitled to diplomatic immunity as her husband wasn't even listed as a diplomat. As for your attempt to hijack the thread with a totally irrelevant deflection, you're utterly disgusting and should be ashamed of yourself. Stop being such a drama queen you clown. Every single report I've read describes him as a diplomat. Then there's this: 'Diplomatic immunity usually only covers diplomats and their dependents based in London. But a special agreement has been in place since 1994 that covers diplomats working at RAF Croughton, according to Sky News.' I shall repeat what I have posted on previous threads. He was a Intelligence Officer, they are 'ten a penny', there are thousands of them, they are employed by the USAF and are not diplomats. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 colin - 2020-01-23 7:52 PM I shall repeat what I have posted on previous threads. He was a Intelligence Officer, they are 'ten a penny', there are thousands of them, they are employed by the USAF and are not diplomats. You couldn't be more wrong. See link. https://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/sacoolas-affair-diplomatic-immunity-or-special-immunity You don't have to be a diplomat to have diplomatic immunity. If it only applied to diplomats why was diplomatic immunity extended to the airbase in 1994? There are no diplomats on air bases but this is more than an air base. From my link: 'RAF Croughton in the English Midlands. Despite its name, this is a large US intelligence communications hub, an important cog in the Five Eyes intelligence alliance, and operates under the aegis of the US Air Force’s 501st Combat Support Wing. Diplomatic immunity, it seems, was extended to (publicly unspecified) staff at RAF Croughton in a special UK-USA agreement that was sealed in 1994, when Douglas Hurd was foreign secretary and Warren Christopher was secretary of state during the first presidency of Bill Clinton.' 'Furthermore, intelligence officers and their immediate families often do have diplomatic immunity from the criminal, civil and administrative jurisdiction of receiving states. Typically, this is when they are formally given what is loosely known as ‘diplomatic cover’ at what we might call an embassy’s main site, in this case in London. In addition – and this is important – not all of these intelligence officers need to be members of the ‘diplomatic staff’ of the mission; the technicians among them, such as those working for the US National Security Agency, who traditionally clustered in the attics or in sheds on the roofs of large embassies, will almost certainly be members of the VCDR’s second tier of embassy staff, the ‘administrative and technical staff’. And members of this class not only enjoy diplomatic immunity as well ......' Immunity is granted by the country posting the diplomat and if the US decides that he's a diplomat that's it. Whatever 'experts' in this country decide, they may not know what his actual role is and if he's a high-ranking intelligence officer he will certainly have immunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-23 11:21 PM colin - 2020-01-23 7:52 PM I shall repeat what I have posted on previous threads. He was a Intelligence Officer, they are 'ten a penny', there are thousands of them, they are employed by the USAF and are not diplomats. You couldn't be more wrong. See link. https://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/sacoolas-affair-diplomatic-immunity-or-special-immunity You don't have to be a diplomat to have diplomatic immunity. If it only applied to diplomats why was diplomatic immunity extended to the airbase in 1994? There are no diplomats on air bases but this is more than an air base. From my link: 'RAF Croughton in the English Midlands. Despite its name, this is a large US intelligence communications hub, an important cog in the Five Eyes intelligence alliance, and operates under the aegis of the US Air Force’s 501st Combat Support Wing. Diplomatic immunity, it seems, was extended to (publicly unspecified) staff at RAF Croughton in a special UK-USA agreement that was sealed in 1994, when Douglas Hurd was foreign secretary and Warren Christopher was secretary of state during the first presidency of Bill Clinton.' 'Furthermore, intelligence officers and their immediate families often do have diplomatic immunity from the criminal, civil and administrative jurisdiction of receiving states. Typically, this is when they are formally given what is loosely known as ‘diplomatic cover’ at what we might call an embassy’s main site, in this case in London. In addition – and this is important – not all of these intelligence officers need to be members of the ‘diplomatic staff’ of the mission; the technicians among them, such as those working for the US National Security Agency, who traditionally clustered in the attics or in sheds on the roofs of large embassies, will almost certainly be members of the VCDR’s second tier of embassy staff, the ‘administrative and technical staff’. And members of this class not only enjoy diplomatic immunity as well ......' Immunity is granted by the country posting the diplomat and if the US decides that he's a diplomat that's it. Whatever 'experts' in this country decide, they may not know what his actual role is and if he's a high-ranking intelligence officer he will certainly have immunity. Ouch !!! ... Thats gotta hurt our anti-American friend ... You can bet ya bottom $$ he'll be back with more guff though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 24, 2020 Author Share Posted January 24, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-23 11:21 PM colin - 2020-01-23 7:52 PM I shall repeat what I have posted on previous threads. He was a Intelligence Officer, they are 'ten a penny', there are thousands of them, they are employed by the USAF and are not diplomats. You couldn't be more wrong. See link. https://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/sacoolas-affair-diplomatic-immunity-or-special-immunity Just as it could be you that's wrong as you've simply linked to a blog which disagrees with a blog link i posted yesterday, so both hold opposing views. Quite where or how you determine one is right and the other isn't is another matter but fact is both Raab and Leadsom (Dunn family constituency MP) have condemned the appalling actions of the US in their refusal to extradite Sacoolas to face justice. Dominic Raab said: “We feel this amounts to a denial of justice, and we believe Anne Sacoolas should return to the UK. We are now urgently considering our options. I also explained that the UK would have acted differently if this had been a UK diplomat serving in the US." https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/23/harry-dunn-us-rejects-extradition-request-for-anne-sacoolas https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/news/109331/andrea-leadsom-says-uk-stands-shoulder-shoulder-harry-dunn If this is an example of how the US believes having a special relationship with UK then this case has set a precedent for UK citizens in the US to commit an offence, disregard US law, and run back to the UK. Not the way forward to international relations. Diplomatic immunity or not it can be revoked as happened in the case of the Georgian diplomat who mowed down and killed a US teenage girl in Washington. His country stripped his diplomatic immunity and sent him back to the US on the next plane. Sentenced to prison for 7 - 21 years he served three. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-dec-20-mn-531-story.html Had Sacoolas stayed she would no doubt have received little more than community service and a fine but the fact she fled the country increases the seriousness of her crime which is indefensible. Both the US govt and Sacoolas must now realise by attempting to pervert the course of justice she will be unable to set foot in UK or any other country with reciprocal arrangements without being arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-01-24 6:18 AM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-23 11:21 PM colin - 2020-01-23 7:52 PM I shall repeat what I have posted on previous threads. He was a Intelligence Officer, they are 'ten a penny', there are thousands of them, they are employed by the USAF and are not diplomats. You couldn't be more wrong. See link. https://www.diplomacy.edu/blog/sacoolas-affair-diplomatic-immunity-or-special-immunity You don't have to be a diplomat to have diplomatic immunity. If it only applied to diplomats why was diplomatic immunity extended to the airbase in 1994? There are no diplomats on air bases but this is more than an air base. From my link: 'RAF Croughton in the English Midlands. Despite its name, this is a large US intelligence communications hub, an important cog in the Five Eyes intelligence alliance, and operates under the aegis of the US Air Force’s 501st Combat Support Wing. Diplomatic immunity, it seems, was extended to (publicly unspecified) staff at RAF Croughton in a special UK-USA agreement that was sealed in 1994, when Douglas Hurd was foreign secretary and Warren Christopher was secretary of state during the first presidency of Bill Clinton.' 'Furthermore, intelligence officers and their immediate families often do have diplomatic immunity from the criminal, civil and administrative jurisdiction of receiving states. Typically, this is when they are formally given what is loosely known as ‘diplomatic cover’ at what we might call an embassy’s main site, in this case in London. In addition – and this is important – not all of these intelligence officers need to be members of the ‘diplomatic staff’ of the mission; the technicians among them, such as those working for the US National Security Agency, who traditionally clustered in the attics or in sheds on the roofs of large embassies, will almost certainly be members of the VCDR’s second tier of embassy staff, the ‘administrative and technical staff’. And members of this class not only enjoy diplomatic immunity as well ......' Immunity is granted by the country posting the diplomat and if the US decides that he's a diplomat that's it. Whatever 'experts' in this country decide, they may not know what his actual role is and if he's a high-ranking intelligence officer he will certainly have immunity. Ouch !!! ... Thats gotta hurt our anti-American friend ... You can bet ya bottom $$ he'll be back with more guff though Next time I see my cousin I must remember to tell him he has diplomatic immunity. *-) Meanwhile this afternoon I was chatting to an ex of an Intelligence Officer, she like me was not at all surprised at the US reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 15, 2020 Author Share Posted February 15, 2020 When will these Americans ever learn? Yet another close call and this one at night exiting the base just a couple of days ago at 17.44hr. There are even arrows on the damn road! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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