Empty Threats from the Irish (and the EU?)

[StuartO]

The EU's refusal to allow talks about the future trading arrangements until they are guaranteed their exit money and the Irish threat to veto the start of trade talks strike me as empty threats and perhaps our Government are playing these negotiations more cleverly than we think.

 

There's a lot of posturing in what's being said (by both sides) but especially the EU and the Irish.  The fallback British option has always been leaving the EU without an agreement (which is presumably considered survivable somehow) but both sides have an interest in ending up with some sort of plan and deal, rather than shooting each other in the foot.

 

I see the Irish position as fairly weak in that they need access through UK roads and ferry routes, otherwise they would have to establish completely new trading access to the rest of the EU, hence the importance to them of good trading access and routes through the UK.  They might fancy the idea of having N Ireland as a pseudo-EU annexe, separated from the UK by a customs barrier but clearly the N Ireland non-republican politicians are never going to wear that sort of set up.

 

And can the EU really hope to shift the UK position by continuing to hold out of trade talks when they need a trade deal too?  I doubt it.

 

Our Government are talking an appeasing and constructive line and leaving all the threatenning to the Irish and EU and that's fine by me.  I think we'll get somewhere eventually.

 

[John52]

StuartO - 2017-11-27 8:58 AMThe EU's refusal to allow talks about the future trading arrangements until they are guaranteed their exit money and the Irish threat to veto the start of trade talks strike me as empty threats and perhaps our Government are playing these negotiations more cleverly than we think.

 

There's a lot of posturing in what's being said (by both sides) but especially the EU and the Irish.  The fallback British option has always been leaving the EU without an agreement (which is presumably considered survivable somehow) but both sides have an interest in ending up with some sort of plan and deal, rather than shooting each other in the foot.

 

I see the Irish position as fairly weak in that they need access through UK roads and ferry routes, otherwise they would have to establish completely new trading access to the rest of the EU, hence the importance to them of good trading access and routes through the UK.  They might fancy the idea of having N Ireland as a pseudo-EU annexe, separated from the UK by a customs barrier but clearly the N Ireland non-republican politicians are never going to wear that sort of set up.

 

And can the EU really hope to shift the UK position by continuing to hold out of trade talks when they need a trade deal too?  I doubt it.

 

Our Government are talking an appeasing and constructive line and leaving all the threatenning to the Irish and EU and that's fine by me.  I think we'll get somewhere eventually.

Except the Northern Irish, via the DUP, have got the Tories by the b*llocks because the Tories depend on the DUP for their majority. When Theresa May called the election she said she wouldn't, she lost her majority, and ended up brbing the DUP with our money to vote for her. The DUP have already got £billions of English taxpayers borrowed money. (Same as the Scots and Welsh which is why they can afford better services for their citizens than the English taxpayers whose borrowed money is being used to bribe the Irish, Scots and Welsh to vote Tory.)Blackmailers usually come back for more.EU negotiators must know this is her weak point, and are exploiting it to the full at English taxpayer's expense. Far from getting the rebate Brexiteers voted for, we are all are going to be chaged ever higher divorce settlements before the EU will even negotiate with her.

[Guest pelmetman]

Lets call their bluff and save ourselves billions >:-) ..........

 

 

[John52]

pelmetman - 2017-11-27 9:43 AM

 

Lets call their bluff .

 

But the DUP aren't bluffing.

If we don't send them money they won't vote Tory.

[StuartO]

The money the DUP have extracted in return for their support of the Conservatives is one thing (already spent) but I doubt the DUP would tolerate being separated from the UK in any way at any price, even if the Irish would like that (as a useful step towards a united Ireland) and the EU wouldn't mind.

[colin]

It's part of the mess that has to be sorted out. I can't help but think the Irish may have got a prompt from Brussels.

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2017-11-27 9:57 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-11-27 9:43 AM

 

Lets call their bluff .

 

But the DUP aren't bluffing.

If we don't send them money they won't vote Tory.

 

So what's wrong with giving the DUP money? :-| ........

 

At least it will be spent in the UK..... unlike the majority of the billions we send to the EU >:-) ........

 

 

[John52]

StuartO - 2017-11-27 10:07 AM

 

The money the DUP have extracted in return for their support of the Conservatives is one thing (already spent) .

 

But blackmailers invariably come back for more, and the DUP can demand the Tories negotiate an open border between the North and South - whatever the cost to English taxpayers. Something the EU are well aware of, and demand ever higher amounts of English taxpayers money before they will even negotiate. Pretty obvious the EU have got the upper hand already. Tories can't afford to walk away because they still need DUP votes. Even more so now some of their own MPs are threatening to vote against them despite the death threats.

[John52]

pelmetman - 2017-11-27 10:50 AM

 

John52 - 2017-11-27 9:57 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-11-27 9:43 AM

 

Lets call their bluff .

 

But the DUP aren't bluffing.

If we don't send them money they won't vote Tory.

 

So what's wrong with giving the DUP money? :-| ........

 

At least it will be spent in the UK..... unlike the majority of the billions we send to the EU >:-) ........

 

We are having to send £billions to the EU to get them to negotiate the open Irish border the DUP demand.

Thats on top of the blackmail money to the Irish to buy DUP votes for the Tories.

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2017-11-27 11:13 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-11-27 10:50 AM

 

John52 - 2017-11-27 9:57 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-11-27 9:43 AM

 

Lets call their bluff .

 

But the DUP aren't bluffing.

If we don't send them money they won't vote Tory.

 

So what's wrong with giving the DUP money? :-| ........

 

At least it will be spent in the UK..... unlike the majority of the billions we send to the EU >:-) ........

 

We are having to send £billions to the EU to get them to negotiate the open Irish border the DUP demand.

Thats on top of the blackmail money to the Irish to buy DUP votes for the Tories.

 

Which is why I would rather walk away with no deal >:-) .........

 

 

[John52]

pelmetman - 2017-11-27 10:50 AM

So what's wrong with giving the DUP money? :-| ........

Will you still be asking that when you get to the stage of needing health care, and find you have to pay for things the Irish, Scots and Welsh get for free *-)

[John52]

pelmetman - 2017-11-27 11:16 AM

 

Which is why I would rather walk away with no deal >:-) .........

 

 

You would, but the Tories wouldn't because they would lose DUP votes.

[Barryd999]

Make no mistake with the DUP. They will not back down and will cut off their noses to spite their face if required. An entirely different beast to any other party with any kind of power.

 

As the Irish MP said on Sunday Politics yesterday. The only solution is for the UK to stay in the single market and Customs Union.

[John52]

John52 - 2017-11-27 11:17 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-11-27 10:50 AM

So what's wrong with giving the DUP money? :-| ........

Will you still be asking that when you get to the stage of needing health care, and find you have to pay for things the Irish, Scots and Welsh get for free *-)

 

PS: Who will you and Desmond blame that on when we are no longer in the EU (lol)

[John52]

Barryd999 - 2017-11-27 11:36 AM

The only solution is for the UK to stay in the single market and Customs Union.

Yes but the interests of the Tory party come above the interests of the UK. :-S

[Bulletguy]

 

I would have expected chest puffing strutting Brexiters to be out in force chanting "BUILD THAT WALL....BUILD THAT WALL"......but their previously very vocal mantras seems to be dwindling to that of meek mouse like mumbling and moaning now.

 

You could even boast about trying to bill the cost to Republicans.....a bit like orange man across the the pond. Hhmm......now how is that "wall" progressing? (lol)

[Barryd999]

John52 - 2017-11-27 11:49 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-11-27 11:36 AM

The only solution is for the UK to stay in the single market and Customs Union.

Yes but the interests of the Tory party come above the interests of the UK. :-S

 

Their days are numbered I reckon.

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-11-27 2:58 PM

 

 

I would have expected chest puffing strutting Brexiters to be out in force chanting "BUILD THAT WALL....BUILD THAT WALL"......but their previously very vocal mantras seems to be dwindling to that of meek mouse like mumbling and moaning now.

 

You could even boast about trying to bill the cost to Republicans.....a bit like orange man across the the pond. Hhmm......now how is that "wall" progressing? (lol)

 

https://news.sky.com/story/work-begins-on-prototypes-for-trumps-mexico-wall-11055599 ... That'll be POTUS Trump 1... Bullet 0

[RogerC]

pelmetman - 2017-11-27 9:43 AMLets call their bluff and save ourselves billions >:-) ..........

I've got a better idea......send John in to do the negotiating because he's clearly stronger and better informed than 'anyone'.  He could 'possibly' negotiate our staying 'in' whilst making it look, to us stoopid/brainwashed/duped leave voters as though we were out because the remain camp clearly is more intelligent and better informed than us lot.  I know it's true because they told us.....http://www.allsmileys.com/files/smiley-central-communicate/5261.gif

[RogerC]

Barryd999 - 2017-11-27 11:36 AMMake no mistake with the DUP. They will not back down and will cut off their noses to spite their face if required. An entirely different beast to any other party with any kind of power.As the Irish MP said on Sunday Politics yesterday. The only solution is for the UK to stay in the single market and Customs Union.

Well if there's only the one solution what are the negotiators going on about?  Be best if they stopped wasting their time and listened to Mairead McGuinness MEP Vice President of the European Parliament. 

Presumably it is she you refer to as being on Sunday Politics yesterday Barry?  If so, and I see no other Irish MP on the list of guests, her opinion is hardly likely to be lacking bias towards the EU.

Convenient you didn't mention your source.......!!

[John52]

RogerC - 2017-11-27 4:06 PM

pelmetman - 2017-11-27 9:43 AMLets call their bluff and save ourselves billions >:-) ..........

I've got a better idea......send John in to do the negotiating because he's clearly stronger and better informed than 'anyone'.  He could 'possibly' negotiate our staying 'in' whilst making it look, to us stoopid/brainwashed/duped leave voters as though we were out because the remain camp clearly is more intelligent and better informed than us lot.  I know it's true because they told us.....http://www.allsmileys.com/files/smiley-central-communicate/5261.gif

Actually there is a sensible suggestion amongst your usual invective - was that a mistake?Sending someone independent of the DUP to do the negotiating could limit the damage.Of course thare are people better qualified than me.But anyone - even me - who wasn't being blackmailed by the DUP could probably get a better deal for Britain.

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-11-27 2:58 PM

 

 

I would have expected chest puffing strutting Brexiters to be out in force chanting "BUILD THAT WALL....BUILD THAT WALL"......but their previously very vocal mantras seems to be dwindling to that of meek mouse like mumbling and moaning now.

 

You could even boast about trying to bill the cost to Republicans.....a bit like orange man across the the pond. Hhmm......now how is that "wall" progressing? (lol)

 

 

More importantly hows that Impending Impeachment !!! going ???

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2017-11-27 3:17 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-11-27 2:58 PM

 

 

I would have expected chest puffing strutting Brexiters to be out in force chanting "BUILD THAT WALL....BUILD THAT WALL"......but their previously very vocal mantras seems to be dwindling to that of meek mouse like mumbling and moaning now.

 

You could even boast about trying to bill the cost to Republicans.....a bit like orange man across the the pond. Hhmm......now how is that "wall" progressing? (lol)

 

https://news.sky.com/story/work-begins-on-prototypes-for-trumps-mexico-wall-11055599 ... That'll be POTUS Trump 1... Bullet 0

Errr.........remind me again, just how high were those twin towers and what flew into 'em?

 

What use is a wall without a roof? Looks like Trumpton forgot that small matter. So the orange man is still at zero. (lol)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdUIXvwuwto

 

Oh and seeing as Texas came about from a massive land grab by the US involving five other states, it's about time they returned that land to it's rightful owner...Mexico, who US stole it from by forced annexation.

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-11-27 5:57 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-11-27 3:17 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-11-27 2:58 PM

 

 

I would have expected chest puffing strutting Brexiters to be out in force chanting "BUILD THAT WALL....BUILD THAT WALL"......but their previously very vocal mantras seems to be dwindling to that of meek mouse like mumbling and moaning now.

 

You could even boast about trying to bill the cost to Republicans.....a bit like orange man across the the pond. Hhmm......now how is that "wall" progressing? (lol)

 

https://news.sky.com/story/work-begins-on-prototypes-for-trumps-mexico-wall-11055599 ... That'll be POTUS Trump 1... Bullet 0

Errr.........remind me again, just how high were those twin towers and what flew into 'em?

 

What use is a wall without a roof? Looks like Trumpton forgot that small matter. So the orange man is still at zero. (lol)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdUIXvwuwto

 

Oh and seeing as Texas came about from a massive land grab by the US involving five other states, it's about time they returned that land to it's rightful owner...Mexico, who US stole it from by forced annexation.

 

Im sorry but given you impersonate members on this chatroom that are much younger than yourself for reasons we can only guess at I'm reluctant to reply directly to your post ... Im unsure of your intentions as the internet is full of older men posing as younger types to satisfy some vile need ... I would like to warn all other members to be very wary in answering posts that have been put on here in my name , a total invasion of privacy and much , much worse I fear ... Please report to the moderators

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2017-11-27 6:27 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-11-27 5:57 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-11-27 3:17 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-11-27 2:58 PM

 

 

I would have expected chest puffing strutting Brexiters to be out in force chanting "BUILD THAT WALL....BUILD THAT WALL"......but their previously very vocal mantras seems to be dwindling to that of meek mouse like mumbling and moaning now.

 

You could even boast about trying to bill the cost to Republicans.....a bit like orange man across the the pond. Hhmm......now how is that "wall" progressing? (lol)

 

https://news.sky.com/story/work-begins-on-prototypes-for-trumps-mexico-wall-11055599 ... That'll be POTUS Trump 1... Bullet 0

Errr.........remind me again, just how high were those twin towers and what flew into 'em?

 

What use is a wall without a roof? Looks like Trumpton forgot that small matter. So the orange man is still at zero. (lol)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdUIXvwuwto

 

Oh and seeing as Texas came about from a massive land grab by the US involving five other states, it's about time they returned that land to it's rightful owner...Mexico, who US stole it from by forced annexation.

 

Im sorry but given you impersonate members on this chatroom that are much younger than yourself for reasons we can only guess at I'm reluctant to reply directly to your post ... Im unsure of your intentions as the internet is full of older men posing as younger types to satisfy some vile need ... I would like to warn all other members to be very wary in answering posts that have been put on here in my name , a total invasion of privacy and much , much worse I fear ... Please report to the moderators.

WTF are you on????!!!!!! :-S:-S:-S:-S

 

Looks like you've lost a few roof tiles......oh wait, a roofer with a few tiles missing (lol)