From Muslim Migrant to Multi Millionaire

[Bulletguy]

 

Picked up on this chaps story during a news bulletin about migration last night. Tony Kitous, an Algerian born migrant who came to UK in 1983. Spent his early days sleeping rough in London,then in various squats until finally getting some work washing dishes in Restaurants working 18 hours a day over shifts. He wasn't bothered how hard he worked because he loved cooking, wanted to cook.........and had ambition.

 

Today he employs a staff of 1000 and owns five restaurants with a turnover of £28 million a year.

 

http://www.tonykitous.com/index.html

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/immigration-figures-fall-since-brexit

 

 

[antony1969]

I thought someone while stalking a certain someone had started a certain Muslim thread for someone ... Shouldn't this be in it

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2017-11-30 11:58 PM

 

 

Picked up on this chaps story during a news bulletin about migration last night. Tony Kitous, an Algerian born migrant who came to UK in 1983. Spent his early days sleeping rough in London,then in various squats until finally getting some work washing dishes in Restaurants working 18 hours a day over shifts. He wasn't bothered how hard he worked because he loved cooking, wanted to cook.........and had ambition.

 

Today he employs a staff of 1000 and owns five restaurants with a turnover of £28 million a year.

 

http://www.tonykitous.com/index.html

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/immigration-figures-fall-since-brexit

 

 

I wonder if UK migrant millionaires out number those migrants who are currently in our prisons? ;-) .......

 

 

[Violet1956]

antony1969 - 2017-12-01 6:11 AM

 

I thought someone while stalking a certain someone had started a certain Muslim thread for someone ... Shouldn't this be in it

 

No Antony, he made that thread for you not for himself. Just a small detail/distinction but an important one.

;-)

[Bulletguy]

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 10:53 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-12-01 6:11 AM

 

I thought someone while stalking a certain someone had started a certain Muslim thread for someone ... Shouldn't this be in it

 

No Antony, he made that thread for you not for himself. Just a small detail/distinction but an important one.

;-)

Yes......thread title should really have been "Migrant Multi Millionaire" as that's more snappy and catchy eh? ;-)

 

Interestingly the Brexit boys haven't viewed the Channel 4 link though as they would have picked up on something in that.....ah well. (lol)

 

Nice success story eh? Just shows how hard working some migrants are and a benefit to the country.

[malc d]

Bulletguy - 2017-12-01 1:45 PM

 

 

Interestingly the Brexit boys haven't viewed the Channel 4 link though as they would have picked up on something in that.....ah well. (lol)

 

QUOTE]

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

malc d

 

I'm sure the " Brexit Boys " interpretation of the Channel 4 figures would be different to yours.

 

Those opposed to the mass immigration we've had over the last few years will point to the fact that there were 230,000 new arrivals - all looking for houses - jobs - and use of the NHS.

 

Those who are not concerned about the numbers arriving will claim that most of them are hard working - and include doctors , nurses and care workers - and are desperately needed.

 

So posting such data is unlikely to influence any one with strong views either way on this subject matter.

 

;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

malc d - 2017-12-01 2:24 PM

 

 

Those who are not concerned about the numbers arriving will claim that most of them are hard working - and include doctors , nurses and care workers - and are desperately needed.

 

If that were the case we'd have over staffing problems in the NHS :D ........But unfortunately the real problem is too many EU prisoners in our prisons.......well the ones that our justice system can be bothered to jail that is *-) ........

 

Here's yet another example of a couple of scroats released so they can carry on stealing >:-( ......

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5133005/Romanian-spared-jail-stealing-87-year-olds-purse.html

 

Makes yer proud to be British dont it Bullet? >:-) ........

 

 

[Violet1956]

pelmetman - 2017-12-01 3:19 PM

 

malc d - 2017-12-01 2:24 PM

 

 

Those who are not concerned about the numbers arriving will claim that most of them are hard working - and include doctors , nurses and care workers - and are desperately needed.

 

If that were the case we'd have over staffing problems in the NHS :D ........But unfortunately the real problem is too many EU prisoners in our prisons.......well the ones that our justice system can be bothered to jail that is *-) ........

 

Here's yet another example of a couple of scroats released so they can carry on stealing >:-( ......

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5133005/Romanian-spared-jail-stealing-87-year-olds-purse.html

 

Makes yer proud to be British dont it Bullet? >:-) ........

 

I think that they should have been sent to jail for this. It is a pity that the law does not allow prosecutors to appeal lenient sentences passed by Magistrates. Something we must ask our MP's to address.

 

Clearly it was a despicable offence warranting at least a year in jail. The mitigation was pathetic and anyone with an ounce of sense would have seen through it. The whole incident rang a few bells with me. My dear old ma, sadly now departed, was the victim of a dipper in a pound shop and later of a bag snatcher in the street in her 80s. The police were great, they caught whom they knew to be the bag snatcher who was identified by another witness but my ma could not identify him so he got away with it. Like the lovely lady in this case she didn't let it get her down. She even thought about how desperate the man must have been to have done something so despicable and assumed he was a druggie so felt sorry for him. That was her generation for you.

 

Had sentences of imprisonment been imposed it would have been easier for these low-lifes to be deported back to Romania under EU law. Makes me angry too Dave but it is not EU law that is the problem here.

 

Veronica

[Violet1956]

I should add that if these men had been here for three months and still had not found work they had no right to remain under EU law and can be removed. We should be recording the entry of all EU nationals who claim to be coming here in seek of work and demand that they provide evidence that they have found it after three months and use the lawful power we have to remove them if they haven't.

 

 

 

[Bulletguy]

malc d - 2017-12-01 2:24 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-12-01 1:45 PM

 

 

Interestingly the Brexit boys haven't viewed the Channel 4 link though as they would have picked up on something in that.....ah well. (lol)

 

I'm sure the " Brexit Boys " interpretation of the Channel 4 figures would be different to yours.

 

Those opposed to the mass immigration we've had over the last few years will point to the fact that there were 230,000 new arrivals - all looking for houses - jobs - and use of the NHS.

 

Those who are not concerned about the numbers arriving will claim that most of them are hard working - and include doctors , nurses and care workers - and are desperately needed.

 

So posting such data is unlikely to influence any one with strong views either way on this subject matter.

 

;-)

True....and it does need a degree of comprehension so will be beyond those who skim over Fail headers. (lol)

 

 

pelmetman - 2017-12-01 3:19 PM

 

Here's yet another example of a couple of scroats released so they can carry on stealing >:-( ......

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5133005/Romanian-spared-jail-stealing-87-year-olds-purse.html

 

Makes yer proud to be British dont it Bullet? >:-) ........

I knew about that last month when a young Polish couple i'd been talking to in my local Aldi showed it me on their phone. Happened in the next county to mine and a young lady set up a funding page which the Polish couple had donated £10 to.

 

Have YOU donated?

 

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/crime/2017/10/26/hundreds-raised-for-elderly-woman-after-purse-snatch/

 

Original target set at £200........raised £4,792......so yes, not only does it "make me feel proud to be British" it makes me very proud to have such wonderful people as the young Polish couple who told me about it.

 

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/amanda-williams-1?utm_id=108&utm_term=4BM2pEaJN

[RogerC]

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 4:52 PMI should add that if these men had been here for three months and still had not found work they had no right to remain under EU law and can be removed. We should be recording the entry of all EU nationals who claim to be coming here in seek of work and demand that they provide evidence that they have found it after three months and use the lawful power we have to remove them if they haven't.

As I understand it that is very close to the controls desired by those who voted 'Out'.....simply a method of recording, controlling and enforcing the rules/law as it applies to non UK citizens.  Had it been in place and delivered as it should have been maybe, just maybe, the vote would have gone the other way.

[Bulletguy]

RogerC - 2017-12-01 8:31 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 4:52 PMI should add that if these men had been here for three months and still had not found work they had no right to remain under EU law and can be removed. We should be recording the entry of all EU nationals who claim to be coming here in seek of work and demand that they provide evidence that they have found it after three months and use the lawful power we have to remove them if they haven't.

As I understand it that is very close to the controls desired by those who voted 'Out'.....simply a method of recording, controlling and enforcing the rules/law as it applies to non UK citizens.  Had it been in place and delivered as it should have been maybe, just maybe, the vote would have gone the other way.

This was Veronicas main point though Roger, "I should add that if these men had been here for three months and still had not found work they had no right to remain under EU law and can be removed."My understanding is Brexit voted out as they wanted no part of the EU.......so where was this 'desire' for the above? After all the HO has long had authority to deport. Only problem is May dismantled the BA when Home Sec, then cut back on staffing so those depts ended up undermanned and overstretched.It's always been all too convenient to blame shift onto the EU for our own shortcomings. Who are you going to point the finger of blame at if and when UK leaves the EU?

[Violet1956]

Bulletguy - 2017-12-01 9:26 PM

RogerC - 2017-12-01 8:31 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 4:52 PMI should add that if these men had been here for three months and still had not found work they had no right to remain under EU law and can be removed. We should be recording the entry of all EU nationals who claim to be coming here in seek of work and demand that they provide evidence that they have found it after three months and use the lawful power we have to remove them if they haven't.

As I understand it that is very close to the controls desired by those who voted 'Out'.....simply a method of recording, controlling and enforcing the rules/law as it applies to non UK citizens.  Had it been in place and delivered as it should have been maybe, just maybe, the vote would have gone the other way.

This was Veronicas main point though Roger, "I should add that if these men had been here for three months and still had not found work they had no right to remain under EU law and can be removed."My understanding is Brexit voted out as they wanted no part of the EU.......so where was this 'desire' for the above? After all the HO has long had authority to deport. Only problem is May dismantled the BA when Home Sec, then cut back on staffing so those depts ended up undermanned and overstretched.It's always been all too convenient to blame shift onto the EU for our own shortcomings. Who are you going to point the finger of blame at if and when UK leaves the EU?

Quite, Bullet gets it. The problem with the Remain campaign as it was run by the Tories was that it would be political suicide to point out that it was poor enforcement procedures that resulted in many of the injustices which motivated many Brexiters to vote leave. I respect that Brexiters were not wholly concerned with this issue but it clearly is a big issue for some people. Speaking of "The Big Issue" a Judge has made a decision in a case heard in 2017 that a Romanian Big Issue seller did not acquire a right of residence in the UK under EU law because her profit of £50 per week in this "self-employment" did not meet the test that work had to be genuine and effective under EU law. One has to ask why HMRC has not been reporting all the Big issue sellers that declare a paltry profit to the Home Office so they could do something about this. I have to go and lie down now. :-(

[RogerC]

Bulletguy - 2017-12-01 9:26 PM

RogerC - 2017-12-01 8:31 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 4:52 PMI should add that if these men had been here for three months and still had not found work they had no right to remain under EU law and can be removed. We should be recording the entry of all EU nationals who claim to be coming here in seek of work and demand that they provide evidence that they have found it after three months and use the lawful power we have to remove them if they haven't.

As I understand it that is very close to the controls desired by those who voted 'Out'.....simply a method of recording, controlling and enforcing the rules/law as it applies to non UK citizens.  Had it been in place and delivered as it should have been maybe, just maybe, the vote would have gone the other way.

This was Veronicas main point though Roger, "I should add that if these men had been here for three months and still had not found work they had no right to remain under EU law and can be removed."My understanding is Brexit voted out as they wanted no part of the EU.......so where was this 'desire' for the above? After all the HO has long had authority to deport. Only problem is May dismantled the BA when Home Sec, then cut back on staffing so those depts ended up undermanned and overstretched.It's always been all too convenient to blame shift onto the EU for our own shortcomings. Who are you going to point the finger of blame at if and when UK leaves the EU?

I will happily point the 'finger' towards who ever or what ever organisation is responsible for failing in it's duty so I have no problem with it being the EU or UK government or agencies.

My thinking was/is that there are a number of situations that on their own are not really that big of a problem.  However when there is the situation we find ourselves in at the present in terms of 'a tiny island overflowing with people' these small? isolated issues tend to coalesce into a deluge.  In this case swamping the NHS, education, social services, housing etc etc.  The bottom line is the infrastructure of the country can not adequately cope with the number of people living here. 

Take my town as an example.  Over 500 houses either built, in the process of construction or completed and occupied.  Infrastructure improvements to the town?  No extra school/s, no extra doctors surgeries, no extra dental services but just completed....a Tesco supermarket.  So someone somewhere is permitting development whist the infrastructure/support to service those developments is not put in place causing overstretch in so many ways.  It used to be (ah the good old days) possible to phone our surgery and almost always get an appointment on the same day or the next.  Now you're lucky if you can get one in 6 weeks.  Fortunately I have not had reason to avail myself of their services much over the years.  

Who is to blame for this situation is neither here nor there in terms of rectifying the situation, it simply has to be addressed.  Then and only then should the 'blame game' begin and those found wanting should be removed from office.

[RogerC]

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 9:44 PM

Bulletguy - 2017-12-01 9:26 PM

RogerC - 2017-12-01 8:31 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 4:52 PMI should add that if these men had been here for three months and still had not found work they had no right to remain under EU law and can be removed. We should be recording the entry of all EU nationals who claim to be coming here in seek of work and demand that they provide evidence that they have found it after three months and use the lawful power we have to remove them if they haven't.

As I understand it that is very close to the controls desired by those who voted 'Out'.....simply a method of recording, controlling and enforcing the rules/law as it applies to non UK citizens.  Had it been in place and delivered as it should have been maybe, just maybe, the vote would have gone the other way.

This was Veronicas main point though Roger, "I should add that if these men had been here for three months and still had not found work they had no right to remain under EU law and can be removed."My understanding is Brexit voted out as they wanted no part of the EU.......so where was this 'desire' for the above? After all the HO has long had authority to deport. Only problem is May dismantled the BA when Home Sec, then cut back on staffing so those depts ended up undermanned and overstretched.It's always been all too convenient to blame shift onto the EU for our own shortcomings. Who are you going to point the finger of blame at if and when UK leaves the EU?

Quite, Bullet gets it. The problem with the Remain campaign as it was run by the Tories was that it would be political suicide to point out that it was poor enforcement procedures that resulted in many of the injustices which motivated many Brexiters to vote leave. I respect that Brexiters were not wholly concerned with this issue but it clearly is a big issue for some people. Speaking of "The Big Issue" a Judge has made a decision in a case heard in 2017 that a Romanian Big Issue seller did not acquire a right of residence in the UK under EU law because her profit of £50 per week in this "self-employment" did not meet the test that work had to be genuine and effective under EU law. One has to ask why HMRC has not been reporting all the Big issue sellers that declare a paltry profit to the Home Office so they could do something about this. I have to go and lie down now. :-(

Teresa May on the Border Control Agency?  I recall she was quite up front and scathing in her condemnation and subsequent closure of that ineffective arm of the UK administration.

Ken Clarke on Prisons and sentencing hasn't exactly been 'quiet' in his condemnation and both of these items were considerations during the referendum.  

Clearly one was more in the limelight than the other but nonetheless they were out there for all to see.

[Bulletguy]

RogerC - 2017-12-01 9:57 PM

Bulletguy - 2017-12-01 9:26 PM

RogerC - 2017-12-01 8:31 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 4:52 PMI should add that if these men had been here for three months and still had not found work they had no right to remain under EU law and can be removed. We should be recording the entry of all EU nationals who claim to be coming here in seek of work and demand that they provide evidence that they have found it after three months and use the lawful power we have to remove them if they haven't.

As I understand it that is very close to the controls desired by those who voted 'Out'.....simply a method of recording, controlling and enforcing the rules/law as it applies to non UK citizens.  Had it been in place and delivered as it should have been maybe, just maybe, the vote would have gone the other way.

This was Veronicas main point though Roger, "I should add that if these men had been here for three months and still had not found work they had no right to remain under EU law and can be removed."My understanding is Brexit voted out as they wanted no part of the EU.......so where was this 'desire' for the above? After all the HO has long had authority to deport. Only problem is May dismantled the BA when Home Sec, then cut back on staffing so those depts ended up undermanned and overstretched.It's always been all too convenient to blame shift onto the EU for our own shortcomings. Who are you going to point the finger of blame at if and when UK leaves the EU?

I will happily point the 'finger' towards who ever or what ever organisation is responsible for failing in it's duty so I have no problem with it being the EU or UK government or agencies.My thinking was/is that there are a number of situations that on their own are not really that big of a problem. However when there is the situation we find ourselves in at the present in terms of 'a tiny island overflowing with people' these small? isolated issues tend to coalesce into a deluge. In this case swamping the NHS, education, social services, housing etc etc. The bottom line is the infrastructure of the country can not adequately cope with the number of people living here. Take my town as an example. Over 500 houses either built, in the process of construction or completed and occupied. Infrastructure improvements to the town? No extra school/s, no extra doctors surgeries, no extra dental services but just completed....a Tesco supermarket. So someone somewhere is permitting development whist the infrastructure/support to service those developments is not put in place causing overstretch in so many ways. It used to be (ah the good old days) possible to phone our surgery and almost always get an appointment on the same day or the next. Now you're lucky if you can get one in 6 weeks. Fortunately I have not had reason to avail myself of their services much over the years. Who is to blame for this situation is neither here nor there in terms of rectifying the situation, it simply has to be addressed. Then and only then should the 'blame game' begin and those found wanting should be removed from office.

Poor infrastructure we've long been known for. We just don't seem able to get it together like other countries. Just one example....railways which Beeching ripped apart back in the 60's and since then we've continually failed to invest. Best example i always refer to when talking public service infrastructure is drive to Switzerland, then dump your car for a couple of weeks....because you won't need it. Oh and it's not expensive either. Every single damn city, town, or village is easily accessible by public transport. Hence the reason private car ownership is low among Swiss (my ex-brother in law has never owned a car in his life). But then their government invested heavily (by comparison to UK) in that infrastructure but also ensured everything works right and properly maintained.Property.....we do need more, but lots more 'affordable' housing as they call it....whatever passes as 'affordable' in UK now i don't know but they seem to think £150k is 'affordable' for 'starter homes'. That's maybe ok if your joint income level is at least £50k pa and you can get a mortgage which most can't. We wouldn't have had this problem had Thatcher not sold off most of the social housing at knock down rates. That saw more than a few socialists change allegiance and become nouveau riche capitalist Tory voters! The "i'm alright Jack" lot. Council properties should never have been sold off. That was utter madness in my opinion.So yes, as you mention we have housing estates (we're good at building chicken coops for battery hens) all clumped together with folk living cheek by jowl. Madness again as the country has absolutely rucks of land but we've always had this weird obsession with building estates. New builds, the homes are so tiny i often wonder how the hell they squeeze any furniture in. A small development near me of what they call "link detached" (just a 'posh' description of terraced as far as i'm concerned), the garages are so tiny nobody can get anything bigger than a Fiat 500 in so owners cars sit on the drive. More madness.Regards 'swamping the NHS' numerous issues come in here but perhaps we can begin with getting our own house in order before looking to blame shift as many would prefer to as that's an easier option. There's the small matter of the '3 month rule' for example which effectively removes a British citizen from entitlement to NHS treatment if they remain outside the UK over 3 months....but how often is that not only flouted, but totally ignored and not enforced? Brits 'snowbirding' in Spain abuse it all the time. Worse still, is 'health tourism'.....British who permanently reside outside UK, but return here for free treatment if needing any operations. One of the most prominent examples (due to their extensive media coverage) of that was the King family from Southampton (err...sort of) who removed their son from Southampton hospital where he was undergoing treatment for brain surgery, because Mr King disagreed with Oncologists. They fled to Spain and it later turned out they'd been resident in Spain for six years. It's a complex story involving a web of lies and deceit but i know how they abused the NHS and the aftermath which followed.The other drain is the drunks they have to deal with cluttering up A&E, abusing other patients, nursing and ambulance staff. Typically in the recent Budget smokers get whacked with 2% above inflation.....and alcohol? Untouched. Staggering crass stupidity. So effectively smokers who fund the NHS to almost £14 billion a year are also funding the boozers by keeping their prices down. What kind of message is that sending out?? Then we have mental health care.....or lack of since most units have long been closed down due to cuts. Police spend a major part of their shifts bringing in people who have obvious problem that shouldn't be out on the streets. People who previously would have been under some sort of professional care. The Police aren't there for mental health.....they aren't trained for it, not to mention their force is undermanned and overstretched due to serious cutbacks,We also have an ageing population with folk living into their 80's and even 90's. Many living alone and unsupervised, some with onset of Alzheimer's etc. The list is endless.

[Guest pelmetman]

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 9:44 PM

 

Quite, Bullet gets it. The problem with the Remain campaign as it was run by the Tories was that it would be political suicide to point out that it was poor enforcement procedures that resulted in many of the injustices which motivated many Brexiters to vote leave.

 

Its always more convenient to blame the system rather than those who do their damnedest to frustrate it *-) ........

 

Who is it that usually prevents enforcement?......Oh that'll be a halo polishing human rights lawyer >:-) ......

 

 

 

 

[Violet1956]

pelmetman - 2017-12-02 8:42 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 9:44 PM

 

Quite, Bullet gets it. The problem with the Remain campaign as it was run by the Tories was that it would be political suicide to point out that it was poor enforcement procedures that resulted in many of the injustices which motivated many Brexiters to vote leave.

 

Its always more convenient to blame the system rather than those who do their damnedest to frustrate it *-) ........

 

Who is it that usually prevents enforcement?......Oh that'll be a halo polishing human rights lawyer >:-) ......

 

 

 

 

Morning Dave

 

 

You have no evidence to support that belief and I say it is based on nothing but guesswork on your part. The human rights lawyers only pick them up as clients when the Home Office makes a decision to remove them and then only if they decide to get a lawyer. The Daily Mail et al only report the cases where people due to be removed challenge the decision in the courts and then reserve the biggest headline for when they get to stay.

 

Here’s some recent statistics on removals.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2017/how-many-people-are-detained-or-returned

 

(see section 5 in particular)

 

Thousands have been removed and in fairness to the present government things are improving. If you are you trying to say that there are thousands of cases where EU citizens are not removed because they have a Human Rights lawyer it seems obvious to me from these statistics that is absolute nonsense. These removal statistics don't show how many people are here with no right to remain, a figure that is likely to be much larger because of our poorly resourced immigration controls.

 

Have you any evidence that thousands of cases have gone through the appeal system in which EU citizens that were due for removal under EU law have been allowed to stay on human rights grounds?

 

 

To be fair when Theresa May held the poison chalice that is the role of Home Secretary and immigration came under her remit she was limited in what she could do to improve things. George Osborne held the purse strings so I for one wasn't surprised when she dumped him the moment she could, revenge being a dish best served cold.

 

Veronica

 

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Violet1956 - 2017-12-02 9:28 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-12-02 8:42 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 9:44 PM

 

Quite, Bullet gets it. The problem with the Remain campaign as it was run by the Tories was that it would be political suicide to point out that it was poor enforcement procedures that resulted in many of the injustices which motivated many Brexiters to vote leave.

 

Its always more convenient to blame the system rather than those who do their damnedest to frustrate it *-) ........

 

Who is it that usually prevents enforcement?......Oh that'll be a halo polishing human rights lawyer >:-) ......

 

 

 

 

Morning Dave

 

 

You have no evidence to support that belief and I say it is based on nothing but guesswork on your part. The human rights lawyers only pick them up as clients when the Home Office makes a decision to remove them and then only if they decide to get a lawyer. The Daily Mail et al only report the cases where people due to be removed challenge the decision in the courts and then reserve the biggest headline for when they get to stay.

 

Here’s some recent statistics on removals.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2017/how-many-people-are-detained-or-returned

 

(see section 5 in particular)

 

Thousands have been removed and in fairness to the present government things are improving. If you are you trying to say that there are thousands of cases where EU citizens are not removed because they have a Human Rights lawyer it seems obvious to me from these statistics that is absolute nonsense. These removal statistics don't show how many people are here with no right to remain, a figure that is likely to be much larger because our poorly resourced immigration controls.

 

Have you any evidence that thousands of cases have gone through the appeal system in which EU citizens that were due for removal under EU law have been allowed to stay on human rights grounds?

 

 

To be fair when Theresa May held the poison chalice that is the role of Home Secretary and immigration came under her remit she was limited in what she could do to improve things. George Osborne held the purse strings so I for one wasn't surprised when she dumped him the moment she could, revenge being a dish best served cold.

 

Veronica

 

 

 

 

Guesswork? 8-) ........

 

How many times have those folk from our bet been back to the courts? >:-) ........and you can bet they'll have their taxpayer funded human rights lawyer trying every trick in the human rights book to allow them to stay *-) .......

 

That's prolly why so many get to stay, the government thinks its cheaper :-| ........

 

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Violet1956 - 2017-12-02 9:28 AM

 

 

Here’s some recent statistics on removals.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2017/how-many-people-are-detained-or-returned

 

(see section 5 in particular)

 

Thousands have been removed and in fairness to the present government things are improving.

 

 

 

Whoopee do the numbers being evicted from the UK are going up :D ..............

 

 

Only another million or so illegals to go *-) ........

 

 

 

 

[Violet1956]

pelmetman - 2017-12-02 9:42 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-12-02 9:28 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-12-02 8:42 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 9:44 PM

 

Quite, Bullet gets it. The problem with the Remain campaign as it was run by the Tories was that it would be political suicide to point out that it was poor enforcement procedures that resulted in many of the injustices which motivated many Brexiters to vote leave.

 

Its always more convenient to blame the system rather than those who do their damnedest to frustrate it *-) ........

 

Who is it that usually prevents enforcement?......Oh that'll be a halo polishing human rights lawyer >:-) ......

 

 

 

 

Morning Dave

 

 

You have no evidence to support that belief and I say it is based on nothing but guesswork on your part. The human rights lawyers only pick them up as clients when the Home Office makes a decision to remove them and then only if they decide to get a lawyer. The Daily Mail et al only report the cases where people due to be removed challenge the decision in the courts and then reserve the biggest headline for when they get to stay.

 

Here’s some recent statistics on removals.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2017/how-many-people-are-detained-or-returned

 

(see section 5 in particular)

 

Thousands have been removed and in fairness to the present government things are improving. If you are you trying to say that there are thousands of cases where EU citizens are not removed because they have a Human Rights lawyer it seems obvious to me from these statistics that is absolute nonsense. These removal statistics don't show how many people are here with no right to remain, a figure that is likely to be much larger because our poorly resourced immigration controls.

 

Have you any evidence that thousands of cases have gone through the appeal system in which EU citizens that were due for removal under EU law have been allowed to stay on human rights grounds?

 

 

To be fair when Theresa May held the poison chalice that is the role of Home Secretary and immigration came under her remit she was limited in what she could do to improve things. George Osborne held the purse strings so I for one wasn't surprised when she dumped him the moment she could, revenge being a dish best served cold.

 

Veronica

 

 

 

 

Guesswork? 8-) ........

 

How many times have those folk from our bet been back to the courts? >:-) ........and you can bet they'll have their taxpayer funded human rights lawyer trying every trick in the human rights book to allow them to stay *-) .......

 

That's prolly why so many get to stay, the government thinks its cheaper :-| ........

 

 

 

You're talking about the high profile case of four men Dave. Compare that with the statistics on removal in general and, if you can find any, the statistics on the proportion of appeals that are allowed on human rights grounds. That would seem to me to be one way you could prove in your words that it is "human rights lawyers usually preventing enforcement" rather than the "system".

 

You have reminded me its time to check on the progress in that case. Will do what I can.

 

Post Script -have looked at a list of recent decisions of the Court of Appeal but the case of Shabir Ahmed and the three others don't appear on it. I, like you no doubt, wish they would hurry up and get on with it. I don't know the basis upon which cases are listed according to priority, in particular, it is not clear whether the degree of the public's interest in the outcome has any bearing on that.

[Violet1956]

pelmetman - 2017-12-02 9:49 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-12-02 9:28 AM

 

 

Here’s some recent statistics on removals.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2017/how-many-people-are-detained-or-returned

 

(see section 5 in particular)

 

Thousands have been removed and in fairness to the present government things are improving.

 

 

 

Whoopee do the numbers being evicted from the UK are going up :D ..............

 

 

Only another million or so illegals to go *-) ........

 

 

 

Yep, where no human rights lawyers have been instructed. ;-)

[Bulletguy]

Violet1956 - 2017-12-02 9:28 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-12-02 8:42 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 9:44 PM

 

Quite, Bullet gets it. The problem with the Remain campaign as it was run by the Tories was that it would be political suicide to point out that it was poor enforcement procedures that resulted in many of the injustices which motivated many Brexiters to vote leave.

 

Its always more convenient to blame the system rather than those who do their damnedest to frustrate it *-) ........

 

Who is it that usually prevents enforcement?......Oh that'll be a halo polishing human rights lawyer >:-) ......

 

 

 

 

Morning Dave

 

 

You have no evidence to support that belief and I say it is based on nothing but guesswork on your part. The human rights lawyers only pick them up as clients when the Home Office makes a decision to remove them and then only if they decide to get a lawyer. The Daily Mail et al only report the cases where people due to be removed challenge the decision in the courts and then reserve the biggest headline for when they get to stay.

 

Here’s some recent statistics on removals.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2017/how-many-people-are-detained-or-returned

 

(see section 5 in particular)

 

Thousands have been removed and in fairness to the present government things are improving. If you are you trying to say that there are thousands of cases where EU citizens are not removed because they have a Human Rights lawyer it seems obvious to me from these statistics that is absolute nonsense. These removal statistics don't show how many people are here with no right to remain, a figure that is likely to be much larger because of our poorly resourced immigration controls.

 

Have you any evidence that thousands of cases have gone through the appeal system in which EU citizens that were due for removal under EU law have been allowed to stay on human rights grounds?

 

 

To be fair when Theresa May held the poison chalice that is the role of Home Secretary and immigration came under her remit she was limited in what she could do to improve things. George Osborne held the purse strings so I for one wasn't surprised when she dumped him the moment she could, revenge being a dish best served cold.

 

Veronica

Excellent informative link there Veronica with factual statistics.

 

But Pelmethead prefers to source his "facts" from rag and tat like this...... *-)

[Bulletguy]

 

The same rag which was the favourite read for all traitors and xenophobes in the 30's, openly supporting Fascism and the Nazis......and look at the antisemitic remarks over German Jews they referred to as 'aliens'.

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2017-12-02 3:13 PM

 

 

The same rag which was the favourite read for all traitors and xenophobes in the 30's, openly supporting Fascism and the Nazis......and look at the antisemitic remarks over German Jews they referred to as 'aliens'.

 

Where as you prefer the Muslim Monthly >:-) ..........

 

Is it Ramadan? :-S ......

 

Coz you're ranting like your having a period 8-) .......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oooops forgot the fasting word :D .......