teflon2 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 A coroner has declared that the death of Harvey Vincent by Mr Osbourne Philips a 79 tear old protecting his wife and home from 2 thugs was a lawful killing, (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Eh? Googled both those name and got nothing for a 79 year old Harvey Vincent and Osbourne Philips threw up stuff on Ozzy Osbourne. :-S A link would be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 A glint of common sense ;-) ........ No doubt soon to be snuffed out by the liarying trade on a self serving mission to defend the indefensible and enrich themselves at the same time at taxpayers expense >:-( ....... I used to be a cynic.....then I discovered reality *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Unfortunately in our brave new world we have many who seek to find the wrong even in the most obvious rights . I'm sure even on here in Chatterbox world tha's one or two who would prefer the victim who was the attacker to be the innocent one . Strange world . Personally I couldn't care less for the victim but thats just my simple country view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-05-02 6:39 PM Eh? Googled both those name and got nothing for a 79 year old Harvey Vincent and Osbourne Philips threw up stuff on Ozzy Osbourne. :-S A link would be helpful. Perhaps you need to take the blinkers off your search engine *-) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-05-02 6:49 PM Bulletguy - 2019-05-02 6:39 PM Eh? Googled both those name and got nothing for a 79 year old Harvey Vincent and Osbourne Philips threw up stuff on Ozzy Osbourne. :-S A link would be helpful. Perhaps you need to take the blinkers off your search engine *-) ...... Link? Cancel that......sorted; https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-hither-green-burglar-henry-14985026 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-05-02 7:18 PM pelmetman - 2019-05-02 6:49 PM Bulletguy - 2019-05-02 6:39 PM Eh? Googled both those name and got nothing for a 79 year old Harvey Vincent and Osbourne Philips threw up stuff on Ozzy Osbourne. :-S A link would be helpful. Perhaps you need to take the blinkers off your search engine *-) ...... Link? Cancel that......sorted; https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-hither-green-burglar-henry-14985026 So who's the victim? :-| ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-05-02 7:46 PM Bulletguy - 2019-05-02 7:18 PM pelmetman - 2019-05-02 6:49 PM Bulletguy - 2019-05-02 6:39 PM Eh? Googled both those name and got nothing for a 79 year old Harvey Vincent and Osbourne Philips threw up stuff on Ozzy Osbourne. :-S A link would be helpful. Perhaps you need to take the blinkers off your search engine *-) ...... Link? Cancel that......sorted; https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-hither-green-burglar-henry-14985026 So who's the victim? :-| ........ Can't you read the link i posted? Your first post was not only prejudged with the usual conjecture but totally ridiculous as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-05-02 8:04 PM pelmetman - 2019-05-02 7:46 PM Bulletguy - 2019-05-02 7:18 PM pelmetman - 2019-05-02 6:49 PM Bulletguy - 2019-05-02 6:39 PM Eh? Googled both those name and got nothing for a 79 year old Harvey Vincent and Osbourne Philips threw up stuff on Ozzy Osbourne. :-S A link would be helpful. Perhaps you need to take the blinkers off your search engine *-) ...... Link? Cancel that......sorted; https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-hither-green-burglar-henry-14985026 So who's the victim? :-| ........ Can't you read the link i posted? Your first post was not only prejudged with the usual conjecture but totally ridiculous as well. You now know what the thread is about *-) ........ So who's the victim? :-| ........... In my view its the 79 year old.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-05-02 8:13 PM Bulletguy - 2019-05-02 8:04 PM pelmetman - 2019-05-02 7:46 PM Bulletguy - 2019-05-02 7:18 PM pelmetman - 2019-05-02 6:49 PM Bulletguy - 2019-05-02 6:39 PM Eh? Googled both those name and got nothing for a 79 year old Harvey Vincent and Osbourne Philips threw up stuff on Ozzy Osbourne. :-S A link would be helpful. Perhaps you need to take the blinkers off your search engine *-) ...... Link? Cancel that......sorted; https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-hither-green-burglar-henry-14985026 So who's the victim? :-| ........ Can't you read the link i posted? Your first post was not only prejudged with the usual conjecture but totally ridiculous as well. You now know what the thread is about *-) ........ Given your silly first post on it you obviously didn't. Also you don't agree with due process which one day will hopefully come back to bite you as that's the only way to knock any sense into you. So who's the victim? :-| ........... In my view its the 79 year old.......... Obviously, though in all murders there are often more than one victim and yes, i do know this was deemed 'lawful killing' before you embark on silly pedantry. Why do you need to ask such a daft question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Why the “at last” Teflon? Do you know of many or even any cases where someone has wrongfully been convicted of unlawful killing in circumstances where they used lethal force to defend themselves? This case provides a very good example of how the law is applied in such circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-05-02 10:16 PM Why the “at last” Teflon? Do you know of many or even any cases where someone has wrongfully been convicted of unlawful killing in circumstances where they used lethal force to defend themselves? This case provides a very good example of how the law is applied in such circumstances. Tony Martin :-| ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-05-03 7:59 AM Violet1956 - 2019-05-02 10:16 PM Why the “at last” Teflon? Do you know of many or even any cases where someone has wrongfully been convicted of unlawful killing in circumstances where they used lethal force to defend themselves? This case provides a very good example of how the law is applied in such circumstances. Tony Martin :-| ......... Whilst I can understand why Tony Martin acted as he did, shooting an intruder in the back, with an illegally held firearm, as the intruder(s) are fleeing and climbing OUT of a window, is quite obviously not the same this Osbourne-Brooks incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Martin’s case is interesting in that he seems to have been let down by his legal team at his first trial in that he had mental health issues which eventually saw his murder conviction reduced to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility by the Court of Appeal. That should have been known about in his first trial. How his case could induce people to believe that the law on self-defence was inadequate to protect the innocent is a mystery to me. His action was more akin to an execution than self-defence. However, there is something to be said about his paranoia which was perhaps exacerbated by his view that the police were ineffectual as regards previous break-ins. There’s a clue in the case for the prosecution in that the police said they believed he had lain in wait for the intruders, you don’t do that if you haven’t experienced previous break-ins. He was both vulnerable and dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 pepe63 - 2019-05-03 8:29 AM pelmetman - 2019-05-03 7:59 AM Violet1956 - 2019-05-02 10:16 PM Why the “at last” Teflon? Do you know of many or even any cases where someone has wrongfully been convicted of unlawful killing in circumstances where they used lethal force to defend themselves? This case provides a very good example of how the law is applied in such circumstances. Tony Martin :-| ......... Whilst I can understand why Tony Martin acted as he did, shooting an intruder in the back, with an illegally held firearm, as the intruder(s) are fleeing and climbing OUT of a window, is quite obviously not the same this Osbourne-Brooks incident. It's not the same because our criminal biased justice system came down on the side of the victim for once *-) ...... I wonder if the criminals family will seek legal aid to sue Osbourne-Brooks for damages.........just as the other crook who was injured robbing Mr Martin did? :-| ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 They wouldn’t stand a chance Dave given the verdict was that the deceased was lawfully killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-05-03 12:01 PM They wouldn’t stand a chance Dave given the verdict was that the deceased was lawfully killed. Perhaps there is hope at last ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted May 3, 2019 Author Share Posted May 3, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-05-03 7:59 AM Violet1956 - 2019-05-02 10:16 PM Why the “at last” Teflon? Do you know of many or even any cases where someone has wrongfully been convicted of unlawful killing in circumstances where they used lethal force to defend themselves? This case provides a very good example of how the law is applied in such circumstances. Tony Martin :-| ......... 100% on the mark Dave (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted May 4, 2019 Author Share Posted May 4, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-05-03 11:24 AM Martin’s case is interesting in that he seems to have been let down by his legal team at his first trial in that he had mental health issues which eventually saw his murder conviction reduced to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility by the Court of Appeal. That should have been known about in his first trial. How his case could induce people to believe that the law on self-defence was inadequate to protect the innocent is a mystery to me. His action was more akin to an execution than self-defence. However, there is something to be said about his paranoia which was perhaps exacerbated by his view that the police were ineffectual as regards previous break-ins. There’s a clue in the case for the prosecution in that the police said they believed he had lain in wait for the intruders, you don’t do that if you haven’t experienced previous break-ins. He was both vulnerable and dangerous. You have obviously never fired a 12 bore pump action shotgun. For a start the muzzle flash would have destroyed any nigh vision he had therefore the following shots would have been blind, the noise of a 12 bore fired in the open is so loud that ear defenders are recommended the sound in an enclosed space would have been debilitating his statement that he first fired below the hand holding the torch which is confirmed in that the surviving criminal had leg wounds. The police claim that no shotgun shells were found on the staircase so claiming he did not shoot from there is ridiculous as the spent cartridges would have been ejected to the right of the gun into the passage where they were found . To claim that is was more like an execution shows your ignorance or perhaps I'm wrong and you have witnessed an execution using a 12 bore shotgun. (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 teflon2 - 2019-05-04 7:13 PM Violet1956 - 2019-05-03 11:24 AM Martin’s case is interesting in that he seems to have been let down by his legal team at his first trial in that he had mental health issues which eventually saw his murder conviction reduced to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility by the Court of Appeal. That should have been known about in his first trial. How his case could induce people to believe that the law on self-defence was inadequate to protect the innocent is a mystery to me. His action was more akin to an execution than self-defence. However, there is something to be said about his paranoia which was perhaps exacerbated by his view that the police were ineffectual as regards previous break-ins. There’s a clue in the case for the prosecution in that the police said they believed he had lain in wait for the intruders, you don’t do that if you haven’t experienced previous break-ins. He was both vulnerable and dangerous. You have obviously never fired a 12 bore pump action shotgun. For a start the muzzle flash would have destroyed any nigh vision he had therefore the following shots would have been blind, the noise of a 12 bore fired in the open is so loud that ear defenders are recommended the sound in an enclosed space would have been debilitating his statement that he first fired below the hand holding the torch which is confirmed in that the surviving criminal had leg wounds. The police claim that no shotgun shells were found on the staircase so claiming he did not shoot from there is ridiculous as the spent cartridges would have been ejected to the right of the gun into the passage where they were found . To claim that is was more like an execution shows your ignorance or perhaps I'm wrong and you have witnessed an execution using a 12 bore shotgun. (!) Bullet only made ammunition ;-) ........ I doubt he's ever fired anything other than impotent Socialist rage :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 teflon2 - 2019-05-04 7:13 PM Violet1956 - 2019-05-03 11:24 AM Martin’s case is interesting in that he seems to have been let down by his legal team at his first trial in that he had mental health issues which eventually saw his murder conviction reduced to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility by the Court of Appeal. That should have been known about in his first trial. How his case could induce people to believe that the law on self-defence was inadequate to protect the innocent is a mystery to me. His action was more akin to an execution than self-defence. However, there is something to be said about his paranoia which was perhaps exacerbated by his view that the police were ineffectual as regards previous break-ins. There’s a clue in the case for the prosecution in that the police said they believed he had lain in wait for the intruders, you don’t do that if you haven’t experienced previous break-ins. He was both vulnerable and dangerous. You have obviously never fired a 12 bore pump action shotgun. For a start the muzzle flash would have destroyed any nigh vision he had therefore the following shots would have been blind, the noise of a 12 bore fired in the open is so loud that ear defenders are recommended the sound in an enclosed space would have been debilitating his statement that he first fired below the hand holding the torch which is confirmed in that the surviving criminal had leg wounds. The police claim that no shotgun shells were found on the staircase so claiming he did not shoot from there is ridiculous as the spent cartridges would have been ejected to the right of the gun into the passage where they were found . To claim that is was more like an execution shows your ignorance or perhaps I'm wrong and you have witnessed an execution using a 12 bore shotgun. (!) None of which alters the fact 1) it was an illegally held firearm and 2) he shot the youth in the back as he was leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-05-04 7:30 PM teflon2 - 2019-05-04 7:13 PM Violet1956 - 2019-05-03 11:24 AM Martin’s case is interesting in that he seems to have been let down by his legal team at his first trial in that he had mental health issues which eventually saw his murder conviction reduced to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility by the Court of Appeal. That should have been known about in his first trial. How his case could induce people to believe that the law on self-defence was inadequate to protect the innocent is a mystery to me. His action was more akin to an execution than self-defence. However, there is something to be said about his paranoia which was perhaps exacerbated by his view that the police were ineffectual as regards previous break-ins. There’s a clue in the case for the prosecution in that the police said they believed he had lain in wait for the intruders, you don’t do that if you haven’t experienced previous break-ins. He was both vulnerable and dangerous. You have obviously never fired a 12 bore pump action shotgun. For a start the muzzle flash would have destroyed any nigh vision he had therefore the following shots would have been blind, the noise of a 12 bore fired in the open is so loud that ear defenders are recommended the sound in an enclosed space would have been debilitating his statement that he first fired below the hand holding the torch which is confirmed in that the surviving criminal had leg wounds. The police claim that no shotgun shells were found on the staircase so claiming he did not shoot from there is ridiculous as the spent cartridges would have been ejected to the right of the gun into the passage where they were found . To claim that is was more like an execution shows your ignorance or perhaps I'm wrong and you have witnessed an execution using a 12 bore shotgun. (!) None of which alters the fact 1) it was an illegally held firearm and 2) he shot the youth in the back as he was leaving. My mistake *-) .......... He fires Socialist criminal apologist blanks >:-) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 teflon2 - 2019-05-04 7:13 PM Violet1956 - 2019-05-03 11:24 AM Martin’s case is interesting in that he seems to have been let down by his legal team at his first trial in that he had mental health issues which eventually saw his murder conviction reduced to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility by the Court of Appeal. That should have been known about in his first trial. How his case could induce people to believe that the law on self-defence was inadequate to protect the innocent is a mystery to me. His action was more akin to an execution than self-defence. However, there is something to be said about his paranoia which was perhaps exacerbated by his view that the police were ineffectual as regards previous break-ins. There’s a clue in the case for the prosecution in that the police said they believed he had lain in wait for the intruders, you don’t do that if you haven’t experienced previous break-ins. He was both vulnerable and dangerous. You have obviously never fired a 12 bore pump action shotgun. For a start the muzzle flash would have destroyed any nigh vision he had therefore the following shots would have been blind, the noise of a 12 bore fired in the open is so loud that ear defenders are recommended the sound in an enclosed space would have been debilitating his statement that he first fired below the hand holding the torch which is confirmed in that the surviving criminal had leg wounds. The police claim that no shotgun shells were found on the staircase so claiming he did not shoot from there is ridiculous as the spent cartridges would have been ejected to the right of the gun into the passage where they were found . To claim that is was more like an execution shows your ignorance or perhaps I'm wrong and you have witnessed an execution using a 12 bore shotgun. (!) Yes, you're right Teflon I haven't fired a shotgun nor was I a member of the jury or the Court of Appeal that ultimately decided the degree of his culpability.I assume you weren't sitting on either case so your knowledge of 12 bore pump action shotguns is immaterial. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-05-04 8:52 PM Bulletguy - 2019-05-04 7:30 PM teflon2 - 2019-05-04 7:13 PM Violet1956 - 2019-05-03 11:24 AM Martin’s case is interesting in that he seems to have been let down by his legal team at his first trial in that he had mental health issues which eventually saw his murder conviction reduced to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility by the Court of Appeal. That should have been known about in his first trial. How his case could induce people to believe that the law on self-defence was inadequate to protect the innocent is a mystery to me. His action was more akin to an execution than self-defence. However, there is something to be said about his paranoia which was perhaps exacerbated by his view that the police were ineffectual as regards previous break-ins. There’s a clue in the case for the prosecution in that the police said they believed he had lain in wait for the intruders, you don’t do that if you haven’t experienced previous break-ins. He was both vulnerable and dangerous. You have obviously never fired a 12 bore pump action shotgun. For a start the muzzle flash would have destroyed any nigh vision he had therefore the following shots would have been blind, the noise of a 12 bore fired in the open is so loud that ear defenders are recommended the sound in an enclosed space would have been debilitating his statement that he first fired below the hand holding the torch which is confirmed in that the surviving criminal had leg wounds. The police claim that no shotgun shells were found on the staircase so claiming he did not shoot from there is ridiculous as the spent cartridges would have been ejected to the right of the gun into the passage where they were found . To claim that is was more like an execution shows your ignorance or perhaps I'm wrong and you have witnessed an execution using a 12 bore shotgun. (!) None of which alters the fact 1) it was an illegally held firearm and 2) he shot the youth in the back as he was leaving. My mistake *-) .......... He fires Socialist criminal apologist blanks >:-) ...... Are you disputing the above two proven facts from Martins case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-05-04 9:21 PM teflon2 - 2019-05-04 7:13 PM Violet1956 - 2019-05-03 11:24 AM Martin’s case is interesting in that he seems to have been let down by his legal team at his first trial in that he had mental health issues which eventually saw his murder conviction reduced to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility by the Court of Appeal. That should have been known about in his first trial. How his case could induce people to believe that the law on self-defence was inadequate to protect the innocent is a mystery to me. His action was more akin to an execution than self-defence. However, there is something to be said about his paranoia which was perhaps exacerbated by his view that the police were ineffectual as regards previous break-ins. There’s a clue in the case for the prosecution in that the police said they believed he had lain in wait for the intruders, you don’t do that if you haven’t experienced previous break-ins. He was both vulnerable and dangerous. You have obviously never fired a 12 bore pump action shotgun. For a start the muzzle flash would have destroyed any nigh vision he had therefore the following shots would have been blind, the noise of a 12 bore fired in the open is so loud that ear defenders are recommended the sound in an enclosed space would have been debilitating his statement that he first fired below the hand holding the torch which is confirmed in that the surviving criminal had leg wounds. The police claim that no shotgun shells were found on the staircase so claiming he did not shoot from there is ridiculous as the spent cartridges would have been ejected to the right of the gun into the passage where they were found . To claim that is was more like an execution shows your ignorance or perhaps I'm wrong and you have witnessed an execution using a 12 bore shotgun. (!) Yes, you're right Teflon I haven't fired a shotgun nor was I a member of the jury or the Court of Appeal that ultimately decided the degree of his culpability.I assume you weren't sitting on either case so your knowledge of 12 bore pump action shotguns is immaterial. . Perhaps it should've been? :-| ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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