globebuster Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Out and about [excuse the pun] today - It was great to see young and old, from all walks of life seemingly proud to wear a poppy. In fact I was amazed at the sheer volume, it's nice to know all those who gave [and have given] so much are being remembered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 That's right, and there's the white poppy to remember all the war dead, not just the military dead and injured. For sure, originally the vast majority of war dead were military. Now it seems the vast majority are civilians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 globebuster - 2017-11-09 8:41 PM [excuse the pun] What pun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted November 9, 2017 Author Share Posted November 9, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-09 10:56 PM globebuster - 2017-11-09 8:41 PM [excuse the pun] What pun? Oh what pun we're having! Not had so much pun in a long time :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 I understand why some people attach great significance to wearing a poppy. I don’t wish to disrespect or denigrate their opinions neither do I laud nor condemn those who wear or don’t wear them. People should be free to choose for themselves What I really dislike is the subtle, insidious pressure on public figures to wear poppies at a time as is clearly happening with the TV stations – even on soap operas... Increasingly, it’s a fact that wearing a poppy is mandatory for as public figures those who don't wear one are often criticised and disparaged for not honouring the dead. Many of those whose lives were stolen from them, not sacrificed as the rhetoric insists, were conscripts whose wishes about whether they served or not were ignored. People weren’t permitted to oppose the war and conscientious objectors were subject to to horrendous treatment including death. We need to remember that not all parts of the UK view the armed forces in the same way. This is certainly the case in the Six Counties where many have experienced the British army as an occupying force and many will remember the events in Derry the Parachute regiment shot and killed 14 unarmed civil rights protestors. Meanwhile, it’s important to realize that the British Legion has taken sponsorship money from arm’s manufacturers and that it’s not possible to protest against an enforced collective remembrance. The events are not non-political; the presence of the Royal Family shows that. It’s political in that it assumes we all have shared beliefs, practices and values. It’s an occasion where those who have alternative views of society are castigated by the dominant classed. Michael Foot criticised for wearing a ‘donkey jacket’,( in fact a short coat) and Jeremy Corbyn for not bowing his head low enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-12 9:05 AM . ................, it’s important to realize that the British Legion has taken sponsorship money from arm’s manufacturers ........................... and that it’s not possible to protest against an enforced collective remembrance. . 1) I didn't know that the arms manufacturers gave money to the British Legion. What an excellent idea. 2) It clearly IS possible to protest against what you see as " an enforced collective remembrance " - because you have just done it - and haven't been censored by the moderators ( yet ). ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 malc d - 2017-11-13 9:58 AM It clearly IS possible to protest against what you see as " an enforced collective remembrance " - because you have just done it - and haven't been censored by the moderators ( yet ). ;-) Fair comment - I should have said not possible for many - like those with Government power who have to swear to serve Her Unelected Majesty the Queen instead of her subjects. And of course the Elected political leaders I mentioned, who were castigated because it was alleged they didn't wear an approved coat, or didn't bow their head low enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 malc d - 2017-11-13 9:58 AM I didn't know that the arms manufacturers gave money to the British Legion. What an excellent idea. Hasn't stopped us being the only country in the world to have been at war every year for over 100 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Wonderful to see the young are respectful for the sacrifices by those who went before em ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-13 5:49 PM malc d - 2017-11-13 9:58 AM I didn't know that the arms manufacturers gave money to the British Legion. What an excellent idea. Hasn't stopped us being the only country in the world to have been at war every year for over 100 years. What an odd response. Of course people don't give money to charities to prevent wars - (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 malc d - 2017-11-13 8:24 PM John52 - 2017-11-13 5:49 PM malc d - 2017-11-13 9:58 AM I didn't know that the arms manufacturers gave money to the British Legion. What an excellent idea. Hasn't stopped us being the only country in the world to have been at war every year for over 100 years. What an odd response. Of course people don't give money to charities to prevent wars - (?) Don't they? I thought part of buying a red poppy was supposed to be to learn from history and avoid more wars? In which case it doesn't seem to be working very well, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 For me buying a Poppy or supporting and remembering those who payed the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom is exactly that! Whether you agree or disagree with some military action or not in recent years it is not the fault of the soldiers that die on the front line who sign up to fight for their country what wars they get sent to. Whether they died in Afghanistan or Ypres they still deserve the same respect and honour IMO. Wearing a poppy to remember them is something I was certainly brought up to support from as long as I can remember and it is something that unites us all (Well most of us) in common respect for those that fought for our freedom and who protect us today. I cant believe it warrants debate to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-11-14 8:51 AMFor me buying a Poppy or supporting and remembering those who payed the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom is exactly that! Whether you agree or disagree with some military action or not in recent years it is not the fault of the soldiers that die on the front line who sign up to fight for their country what wars they get sent to. Whether they died in Afghanistan or Ypres they still deserve the same respect and honour IMO.Wearing a poppy to remember them is something I was certainly brought up to support from as long as I can remember and it is something that unites us all (Well most of us) in common respect for those that fought for our freedom and who protect us today. I cant believe it warrants debate to be honest. Very well said Barry. Unfortunately the freedoms won by those who served and died have provided some the freedom to distort the simple, uncomplicated act of remembering them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-11-14 8:51 AM those that fought for our freedom and who protect us today. . This is where it goes beyond 'the simple, uncomplicated act of remembering them' and gets political in that it implies all the wars were justified and necessary. Ignoring the alternative views. It ignores the many who fought because they were conscripted or shot for 'cowadice' if they didn't fight. And it suggests we wouldn't be free if we weren't the only country in the world to be at war ever year for over 100 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 It also ignores those who say we still don't have real freedom because the most powerful parts of the Government are foisted on to us with no election. We don't elect the House of Lords or Head of State, both of which retain the power to over rule those we do elect. So those who choose not to wear a poppy should be treated with the same respect as those who do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-14 6:21 PMIt also ignores those who say we still don't have real freedom because the most powerful parts of the Government are foisted on to us with no election. We don't elect the House of Lords or Head of State, both of which retain the power to over rule those we do elect.So those who choose not to wear a poppy should be treated with the same respect as those who do. Given your continued ranting on about this one presumes you are one of the non poppy wearing section of society? If so might I suggest it is you that has the problem? Persecution complex possibly? because I have seen nothing to support your continuing unfounded claims of a lack of respect towards those who chose not to wear the poppy. Incidentally how does one know if wearing a poppy gains one more respect than one who doesn't? Do people actually come up to you and say "I respect you more/less than poppy/non poppy wearing persons"? How is respect/lack of respect shown by the man/woman/person in the street?I have been seen with and without my poppy in a number of major town and cities of late and notice no difference from the general public if I am wearing or not. Still if being part of the 'persecuted' makes you happy then that's OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-12 9:05 AM I understand why some people attach great significance to wearing a poppy. I don’t wish to disrespect or denigrate their opinions neither do I laud nor condemn those who wear or don’t wear them. People should be free to choose for themselves What I really dislike is the subtle, insidious pressure on public figures to wear poppies at a time as is clearly happening with the TV stations – even on soap operas... Increasingly, it’s a fact that wearing a poppy is mandatory for as public figures those who don't wear one are often criticised and disparaged for not honouring the dead. Many of those whose lives were stolen from them, not sacrificed as the rhetoric insists, were conscripts whose wishes about whether they served or not were ignored. People weren’t permitted to oppose the war and conscientious objectors were subject to to horrendous treatment including death. We need to remember that not all parts of the UK view the armed forces in the same way. This is certainly the case in the Six Counties where many have experienced the British army as an occupying force and many will remember the events in Derry the Parachute regiment shot and killed 14 unarmed civil rights protestors. Meanwhile, it’s important to realize that the British Legion has taken sponsorship money from arm’s manufacturers and that it’s not possible to protest against an enforced collective remembrance. The events are not non-political; the presence of the Royal Family shows that. It’s political in that it assumes we all have shared beliefs, practices and values. It’s an occasion where those who have alternative views of society are castigated by the dominant classed. Michael Foot criticised for wearing a ‘donkey jacket’,( in fact a short coat) and Jeremy Corbyn for not bowing his head low enough. Do you actually have any evidence to support your claim that the media or television actors are under pressure to wear a poppy? Or is this another of your baseless assumptions that will enable you to go off on the usual tangent so you can continue your tirade of usual b*****ks? Oh sorry I forgot - you come on here to be educated via lively debate! So, in your own words can you describe what you have learned from this and the other thread regarding poppy wearing? Apart that is from the fact you are clearly in the minority (as usual) with your thoughts and assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 RogerC - 2017-11-14 10:09 PMJohn52 - 2017-11-14 6:21 PMIt also ignores those who say we still don't have real freedom because the most powerful parts of the Government are foisted on to us with no election. We don't elect the House of Lords or Head of State, both of which retain the power to over rule those we do elect.So those who choose not to wear a poppy should be treated with the same respect as those who do.Given your continued ranting on about this one presumes you are one of the non poppy wearing section of society? If so might I suggest it is you that has the problem? Persecution complex possibly? because I have seen nothing to support your continuing unfounded claims of a lack of respect towards those who chose not to wear the poppy. Incidentally how does one know if wearing a poppy gains one more respect than one who doesn't? Do people actually come up to you and say "I respect you more/less than poppy/non poppy wearing persons"? How is respect/lack of respect shown by the man/woman/person in the street?I have been seen with and without my poppy in a number of major town and cities of late and notice no difference from the general public if I am wearing or not. Still if being part of the 'persecuted' makes you happy then that's OK. I said it is subtle insidious pressure, so clear evidence is hard to find. Despit that I gave you some - Michael Foot and Jeremy Corbyn which you simply ignored. You can also find it on here where I have been abused for the suggesting of not wearing a poppy.There is also the circumstantial evidence of the greater proportion of those within the media wearing a poppy than out on the average street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 globebuster - 2017-11-15 7:25 AM John52 - 2017-11-12 9:05 AM I understand why some people attach great significance to wearing a poppy. I don’t wish to disrespect or denigrate their opinions neither do I laud nor condemn those who wear or don’t wear them. People should be free to choose for themselves What I really dislike is the subtle, insidious pressure on public figures to wear poppies at a time as is clearly happening with the TV stations – even on soap operas... Increasingly, it’s a fact that wearing a poppy is mandatory for as public figures those who don't wear one are often criticised and disparaged for not honouring the dead. Many of those whose lives were stolen from them, not sacrificed as the rhetoric insists, were conscripts whose wishes about whether they served or not were ignored. People weren’t permitted to oppose the war and conscientious objectors were subject to to horrendous treatment including death. We need to remember that not all parts of the UK view the armed forces in the same way. This is certainly the case in the Six Counties where many have experienced the British army as an occupying force and many will remember the events in Derry the Parachute regiment shot and killed 14 unarmed civil rights protestors. Meanwhile, it’s important to realize that the British Legion has taken sponsorship money from arm’s manufacturers and that it’s not possible to protest against an enforced collective remembrance. The events are not non-political; the presence of the Royal Family shows that. It’s political in that it assumes we all have shared beliefs, practices and values. It’s an occasion where those who have alternative views of society are castigated by the dominant classed. Michael Foot criticised for wearing a ‘donkey jacket’,( in fact a short coat) and Jeremy Corbyn for not bowing his head low enough. Do you actually have any evidence to support your claim that the media or television actors are under pressure to wear a poppy? Or is this another of your baseless assumptions that will enable you to go off on the usual tangent so you can continue your tirade of usual b*****ks? Oh sorry I forgot - you come on here to be educated via lively debate! So, in your own words can you describe what you have learned from this and the other thread regarding poppy wearing? Apart that is from the fact you are clearly in the minority (as usual) with your thoughts and assumptions. Outside of the media and military towns I see the majority of the people on the street not wearing a red poppy. Which disproves your claim that I am clearly in the minority, or there is no pressure in the media to wear one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-15 7:51 AM globebuster - 2017-11-15 7:25 AM John52 - 2017-11-12 9:05 AM I understand why some people attach great significance to wearing a poppy. I don’t wish to disrespect or denigrate their opinions neither do I laud nor condemn those who wear or don’t wear them. People should be free to choose for themselves What I really dislike is the subtle, insidious pressure on public figures to wear poppies at a time as is clearly happening with the TV stations – even on soap operas... Increasingly, it’s a fact that wearing a poppy is mandatory for as public figures those who don't wear one are often criticised and disparaged for not honouring the dead. Many of those whose lives were stolen from them, not sacrificed as the rhetoric insists, were conscripts whose wishes about whether they served or not were ignored. People weren’t permitted to oppose the war and conscientious objectors were subject to to horrendous treatment including death. We need to remember that not all parts of the UK view the armed forces in the same way. This is certainly the case in the Six Counties where many have experienced the British army as an occupying force and many will remember the events in Derry the Parachute regiment shot and killed 14 unarmed civil rights protestors. Meanwhile, it’s important to realize that the British Legion has taken sponsorship money from arm’s manufacturers and that it’s not possible to protest against an enforced collective remembrance. The events are not non-political; the presence of the Royal Family shows that. It’s political in that it assumes we all have shared beliefs, practices and values. It’s an occasion where those who have alternative views of society are castigated by the dominant classed. Michael Foot criticised for wearing a ‘donkey jacket’,( in fact a short coat) and Jeremy Corbyn for not bowing his head low enough. Do you actually have any evidence to support your claim that the media or television actors are under pressure to wear a poppy? Or is this another of your baseless assumptions that will enable you to go off on the usual tangent so you can continue your tirade of usual b*****ks? Oh sorry I forgot - you come on here to be educated via lively debate! So, in your own words can you describe what you have learned from this and the other thread regarding poppy wearing? Apart that is from the fact you are clearly in the minority (as usual) with your thoughts and assumptions. Outside of the media and military towns I see the majority of the people on the street not wearing a red poppy. Which disproves your claim that I am clearly in the minority, or there is no pressure in the media to wear one. I said you were clearly in the minority with your thoughts and assumptions..On This Forum, although I'm sure that would be the case in general terms too. Support of the RBL does not require compulsory wearing of anything. Now, with you being such a staunch believer in true democracy, perhaps it's time you accepted - at least as far as this forum is concerned, that you are very clearly in the minority. You have the temerity to question the intellect of some posters, yet your own rants are littered with mistakes and sweeping comments that have no bearing on reality. I'm in Norway at the moment - on Sunday I was in Kristansand ...not a poppy in sight but plenty of remembrance going on including an amazing montage of photographs depicting British soldiers outside the church with a big thank you message in English. Nice to know that the appreciation is acknowledged outside of the British isles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 globebuster - 2017-11-15 8:41 AM you are very clearly in the minority. Like they say about my views on the Monarchy - but they won't have an election. I wonder why *-) Is it because Militarists and Royalists control the media and shout the loudest doesn't mean they are in the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-15 8:48 AM globebuster - 2017-11-15 8:41 AM you are very clearly in the minority. Like they say about my views on the Monarchy - but they won't have an election. I wonder why *-) Is it because Militarists and Royalists control the media and shout the loudest doesn't mean they are in the majority. More selective quoting to enable you to raise the same old subjects. Something you do endlessly, anything to give you a way in to commenting on your obsessions I have no further comment to make, its futile - as it would appear is your existence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 globebuster - 2017-11-15 8:41 AM ..not a poppy in sight but plenty of remembrance going on Which proves my point :-D You don't need a poppy to remember the victms of war, like you don't need to go to church to pray to God. Once you get organised religion, like organised remembrance, people abuse it for their own agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-14 4:33 PM Barryd999 - 2017-11-14 8:51 AM those that fought for our freedom and who protect us today. . This is where it goes beyond 'the simple, uncomplicated act of remembering them' and gets political in that it implies all the wars were justified and necessary. Ignoring the alternative views. It ignores the many who fought because they were conscripted or shot for 'cowadice' if they didn't fight. And it suggests we wouldn't be free if we weren't the only country in the world to be at war ever year for over 100 years. And it ignores the victims who didn't fight. Like those who had the worst job of the war on the Arctic Convoys, supplying weapons to Stalin who was worse than Hitler. At the end of the war when Churchill wanted us to join the remains of the German Army and fight Stalin, Churchill simply ignored them in his VE Day Speech and denied them medals, because their carrying out his drunken orders had become an embarasement to him. Are we to ignore them as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Isnt it just nice to see the majority of the population, our people in the media and politicians being more or less as one and reunited in remembering the many who payed the ultimate sacrifice for us? Who cares if a make up artist or director makes sure Alistair Stewart has his on before he goes on air? Blimey! We spend half our lives arguing over Brexit and politics, Its kind of like that football match in World War one at Christmas. Everyone should give it up and spare a thought for those that died in all our wars whatever your political views. Once its over we can get back to knocking sh1t out of each other. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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