Guest pelmetman Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 ........and if you believe in fairness you'll sign it...... https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/175823 B-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-02-09 1:54 PM ........and if you believe in fairness you'll sign it...... https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/175823 B-) ......... Was it Samuel Johnson who said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 starvin marvin - 2017-02-09 6:38 PM pelmetman - 2017-02-09 1:54 PM ........and if you believe in fairness you'll sign it...... https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/175823 B-) ......... Was it Samuel Johnson who said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel? So now I'm a scoundrel along with all my other failings ? John *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 http://news.sky.com/story/suspect-will-not-be-prosecuted-over-1976-kingsmill-massacre-in-northern-ireland-10761210 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 starvin marvin - 2017-02-09 6:38 PM pelmetman - 2017-02-09 1:54 PM ........and if you believe in fairness you'll sign it...... https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/175823 B-) ......... Was it Samuel Johnson who said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel? Seems to me that Mr Johnson was a T*W*A*T ;-) ........ Which is lower deck terminology for a scoundrel :D ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-02-09 9:06 PM starvin marvin - 2017-02-09 6:38 PM pelmetman - 2017-02-09 1:54 PM ........and if you believe in fairness you'll sign it...... https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/175823 B-) ......... Was it Samuel Johnson who said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel? Seems to me that Mr Johnson was a T*W*A*T ;-) ........ Yes, I'm sure that is the general view of the renowned essayist, moralist and lexicographer. Good grief, if he was alive now he'd probably have voted Remain. These intellectuals, definitely not to be trusted. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 candapack - 2017-02-09 9:16 PM pelmetman - 2017-02-09 9:06 PM starvin marvin - 2017-02-09 6:38 PM pelmetman - 2017-02-09 1:54 PM ........and if you believe in fairness you'll sign it...... https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/175823 B-) ......... Was it Samuel Johnson who said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel? Seems to me that Mr Johnson was a T*W*A*T ;-) ........ Yes, I'm sure that is the general view of the renowned essayist, moralist and lexicographer. Good grief, if he was alive now he'd probably have voted Remain. These intellectuals, definitely not to be trusted. :D Remain? 8-) .......I don't think so ;-) ......... Only brain dead follow the leader numpties would be that daft :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-02-09 9:20 PM Only brain dead follow the leader numpties would be that daft :D ....... I take it you mean the majority of Labour MP's who, after having all their amendments chucked out, blithely sided with the Tories because Jeremy told them to. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 candapack - 2017-02-09 9:44 PM pelmetman - 2017-02-09 9:20 PM Only brain dead follow the leader numpties would be that daft :D ....... I take it you mean the majority of Labour MP's who, after having all their amendments chucked out, blithely sided with the Tories because Jeremy told them to. (?) Democracy a bummer innit? ;-) ....... Especially when you're expected to do, what the folk who voted you into the job tell you what to do :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-02-09 9:50 PM candapack - 2017-02-09 9:44 PM pelmetman - 2017-02-09 9:20 PM Only brain dead follow the leader numpties would be that daft :D ....... I take it you mean the majority of Labour MP's who, after having all their amendments chucked out, blithely sided with the Tories because Jeremy told them to. (?) Democracy a bummer innit? ;-) ....... Especially when you're expected to do, what the folk who voted you into the job tell you what to do :D ....... Except of course that for many Mp's, of all parties, the people who voted them in told them to do the exact opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-02-09 8:04 PM http://news.sky.com/story/suspect-will-not-be-prosecuted-over-1976-kingsmill-massacre-in-northern-ireland-10761210 What a heart rending story. Mr Black, the sole survivor of the massacre, is to be commended for his dignified acceptance of the decision not to prosecute the IRA , which was based on there being insufficient evidence not because the suspect enjoyed immunity from prosecution. What is apparent from the article is that the PPS in Northern Ireland are still charged with the duty of prosecuting atrocities committed by the IRA and other paramilitary groups. I believe that gives the lie to the premise in the petition Dave has posted that they all benefit from an amnesty and only government forces are being investigated. The link below that provides access to a paper which gives some insight into the historical role and nature of amnesties in Northern Ireland. The article also deals with the so called “comfort letters” that have led some people to believe (it would seem erroneously) that all murderous paramilitaries cannot be prosecuted. As usual the situation is far more nuanced than we have been led to believe. If I’ve read it correctly there was an early release scheme for those convicted and imprisoned for terrorist offences which formed part of the GF agreement. They were released on licence (some were returned to jail after breaching the terms). Sinn Fein were also give a list of names advising people that they were either wanted or not wanted. The “not wanted” weren’t scot-free because that status could be lost if new evidence came to light. Those that were “on the run” at the time were not part of the scheme so Downey, who was implicated in the Hyde Park bombing, shouldn’t have had a letter because he was “on the run”. He got off on a technicality not because he enjoyed immunity from prosecution. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2801555 Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I think we should beware of anyone recruiting " patriots". ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 malc d - 2017-02-10 12:22 PM I think we should beware of anyone recruiting " patriots". ;-) Absolutely. Nazis, ISIS Bombers, Natuional Front Racists etc would all consider themselves Patriots. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I spent some time working in Ireland at the time of the troubles. If you ever ventured the question 'how can you do such terrible things' the reply was always along the lines of 'you know what those b*stards did to us' So on the one hand we need our troops to behave responsibly. But on the other hand politicians have put them in an impossible situation where they can't fight effectively without dirty tricks' Instead of going in and making a bad situation worse, its better to stay out of these situations altogether, Like Harold Wilson did when he told the Americans not one British soldier would set foot in Vietnam. Maybe its because Britain spends more on its military than any other country in Europe some politicians feel they have to make use of it :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-02-09 9:06 PM starvin marvin - 2017-02-09 6:38 PM pelmetman - 2017-02-09 1:54 PM ........and if you believe in fairness you'll sign it...... https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/175823 B-) ......... Was it Samuel Johnson who said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel? Seems to me that Mr Johnson was a T*W*A*T ;-) ........ Which is lower deck terminology for a scoundrel :D ............. I'm sure someone else said...."It takes one to know one" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Anyone can make an apology ... Meaning its quite another thing http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/10/nicola-sturgeon-apologises-msps-ira-freedom-fighters-comment/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 malc d - 2017-02-10 12:22 PM I think we should beware of anyone recruiting " patriots". ;-) So all us folk who have served in our armed forces, and those that are serving now are not patriots? *-) ........ patriot noun a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 starvin marvin - 2017-02-10 2:50 PM pelmetman - 2017-02-09 9:06 PM starvin marvin - 2017-02-09 6:38 PM pelmetman - 2017-02-09 1:54 PM ........and if you believe in fairness you'll sign it...... https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/175823 B-) ......... Was it Samuel Johnson who said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel? Seems to me that Mr Johnson was a T*W*A*T ;-) ........ Which is lower deck terminology for a scoundrel :D ............. I'm sure someone else said...."It takes one to know one" Cant say I'm surprised that you and Mr Johnson don't know the difference between a patriot and a scoundrel ;-) ........ Scoundrel noun a dishonest or unscrupulous person; a rogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-02-11 9:34 AM malc d - 2017-02-10 12:22 PM I think we should beware of anyone recruiting " patriots". ;-) So all us folk who have served in our armed forces, and those that are serving now are not patriots? *-) ........ patriot noun a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors all of them? The guys who won our freedom like the Chartists and Suffragettes were patriots because they did not do it for any personal gain. They did it at great personal risk witht the full force of the state against them instead of supporting them.. The guys I know who joined the armed forces did it for excitement, travel, money, etc. Isn't it a bit of a stretch to believe they all did it out of patriotism *-) Personally I would be most wary of the sort of politician who needs an enemy. Hitler was one of the worst. But Thatcher was another. By refusing to allow democratically elected Sinn Fein MPs to take their seats in the Commons without swearing allegiance to her Unelected Queen, and refusing to let them put their case in the media, she ensured we had an enemy to fight. Without an enemy she had nothing to offer, and was finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 John52 - 2017-02-11 9:56 AM pelmetman - 2017-02-11 9:34 AM malc d - 2017-02-10 12:22 PM I think we should beware of anyone recruiting " patriots". ;-) So all us folk who have served in our armed forces, and those that are serving now are not patriots? *-) ........ patriot noun a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors all of them? The guys who won our freedom like the Chartists and Suffragettes were patriots because they did not do it for any personal gain. They did it at great personal risk witht the full force of the state against them instead of supporting them.. The guys I know who joined the armed forces did it for excitement, travel, money, etc. Isn't it a bit of a stretch to believe they all did it out of patriotism *-) Personally I would be most wary of the sort of politician who needs an enemy. Hitler was one of the worst. But Thatcher was another. By refusing to allow democratically elected Sinn Fein MPs to take their seats in the Commons without swearing allegiance to her Unelected Queen, and refusing to let them put their case in the media, she ensured we had an enemy to fight. Without an enemy she had nothing to offer, and was finished. Next time there's a war are you suggesting we arm ourselves with a few suffragettes? (lol) (lol) (lol) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-02-11 8:09 AM Anyone can make an apology ... Meaning its quite another thing http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/10/nicola-sturgeon-apologises-msps-ira-freedom-fighters-comment/ Another tragic story is mentioned in the article you posted. Three very young soldiers from a Scottish regiment in their civvies lured out of a Belfast pub and murdered. I found another news article on the case (see below) which shows that members of the IRA who are suspects are not immune from prosecution. The investigation is not closed but it is considered that there is insufficient evidence to charge anyone. A family member is not happy with that decision and is trying to launch a private prosecution. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/suspects-in-killing-of-scottish-soldiers-dougal-mccaughey-joseph-and-john-mccaig-still-on-run-in-republic-of-ireland-34526996.html Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-02-11 9:34 AM malc d - 2017-02-10 12:22 PM I think we should beware of anyone recruiting " patriots". ;-) So all us folk who have served in our armed forces, and those that are serving now are not patriots? *-) ........ People join the armed forces for all sorts of reasons - looking for adventure ? - like the uniform ? - - looking for a secure career ? -- and I've no doubt , some join for patriotic reasons. So without asking them all I couldn't tell you how many of them are patriots. You should note that I said beware of the people who RECRUIT patriots. They are the ones who persuade others to go and do all the dangerous stuff. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-02-11 10:18 AM Next time there's a war are you suggesting we arm ourselves with a few suffragettes? (lol) (lol) (lol) ...... Every country needs armed forces. But why does Britain need the most expensive in Europe? Especially at a time when they are making savage cuts elsewhere. (Maybe if Britain brought its armed forces down to the European Average politicians wouldn't keep pushing us into other people's wars making a bad situation worse?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 John52 - 2017-02-11 11:13 AM pelmetman - 2017-02-11 10:18 AM Next time there's a war are you suggesting we arm ourselves with a few suffragettes? (lol) (lol) (lol) ...... Every country needs armed forces. But why does Britain need the most expensive in Europe? That's because our 'establishment' is not good at controlling taxpayers money. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 John52 - 2017-02-11 11:13 AM pelmetman - 2017-02-11 10:18 AM Next time there's a war are you suggesting we arm ourselves with a few suffragettes? (lol) (lol) (lol) ...... Every country needs armed forces. But why does Britain need the most expensive in Europe? Especially at a time when they are making savage cuts elsewhere. (Maybe if Britain brought its armed forces down to the European Average politicians wouldn't keep pushing us into other people's wars making a bad situation worse?) I think you'll find now that Trump is no longer prepared to pick up the tab for defending Europe, that European average will be going up ;-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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