Barryd999 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I cant see a way out of the current DUP, Tory, Northern Ireland and Brexit negotiations situation. The DUP are not known for backing down and without their support the Tories are stuffed. How can we have a border in the Irish sea when 85% of northern Ireland's trade is with mainland UK? So really you have a party with an electorate of the size of a medium size city sticking a spanner in the works that will effect the future of 500 million people. Worra mess. I See Nicola Sturgeon was straight in suggesting what is good for the goose would be good for the Gander and similar murmurings from Wales which is odd as they voted out. The only solution I can see is the whole of the UK to stay in the single market and customs union but wait! We wont have a vote or any say in decisions. I can see no other option but to go back to the public and tell them that there is no feasible options for a better deal than we have now and no way we can leave without a hard Brexit or breaking the UK apart and therefore offer them a second referendum on the entire thing based on what we now know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-12-05 2:42 PM I can see no other option but to go back to the public and tell them that there is no feasible options for a better deal than we have now and no way we can leave without a hard Brexit or breaking the UK apart and therefore offer them a second referendum on the entire thing based on what we now know. I can see another option. Career Politicians continuing to make promises they can't keep to get themselves elected and feather their own nests at our expense. At least for as long as they can get away with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-12-05 2:42 PM I cant see a way out of the current DUP, Tory, Northern Ireland and Brexit negotiations situation. The only solution I can see is the whole of the UK to stay in the single market and customs union but wait! We wont have a vote or any say in decisions. That's what I like to see - someone who has arrived at a completely unbiased conclusion. ;-) I don't think that Brexit is stuffed. It will happen in some form or other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 malc d - 2017-12-05 2:59 PM I don't think that Brexit is stuffed. It will happen in some form or other. In that case its we English who are stuffed :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 malc d - 2017-12-05 2:59 PM Barryd999 - 2017-12-05 2:42 PM I cant see a way out of the current DUP, Tory, Northern Ireland and Brexit negotiations situation. The only solution I can see is the whole of the UK to stay in the single market and customs union but wait! We wont have a vote or any say in decisions. That's what I like to see - someone who has arrived at a completely unbiased conclusion. ;-) I don't think that Brexit is stuffed. It will happen in some form or other. He said, without apparent bias or irony! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Why don't you ask Father Christmas to stop Brexit Barry ... Its a more realistic option for ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 It's been totally stuffed from the outset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 According to this article today Davis has stated that any regulatory agreement applied to NI will have to apply for the whole of the UK https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-davis-alignment/britain-says-regulatory-alignment-for-northern-ireland-could-apply-to-whole-uk-after-brexit-idUKKBN1DZ1WR I dont know how you interpret that but this is sounding to me like we will have to ALL remain in the single market and customs union so if thats the case and they do climb down on that then what is the point of leaving? Are they going to dress it up so its called something else? The ECJ is something else we will have to accept as part of this deal. They dont have much time, days in fact. I predict this will be a climb down but sold as something else. Davis I suspect will resign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Don't worry Barry, it's all going to be sooooooooo easy! There won't be any problems, and anyone who says there will is guilty of spreading project fear, or fake news. There, that's all sorted. Next! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I don't recall much of an outcry (this time....boohoo it's a Brexit thing again......oh lookey there's another remain straw to grasp at...) when Waloonia, population about 3.5 million almost scuppered the Canada-EU trade deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-12-05 4:32 PM what is the point of leaving? So we can no longer go to the European Court of Justice when Her Majesty's Government cr*ps on us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 RogerC - 2017-12-05 6:31 PM I don't recall much of an outcry (this time....boohoo it's a Brexit thing again......oh lookey there's another remain straw to grasp at...) when Waloonia, population about 3.5 million almost scuppered the Canada-EU trade deal. Well thats what happens. Northern Ireland in effect have given Theresa May a way out if she really is still a remainer. David Davis is also insisting that "regulatory alignment" is acceptable but only acceptable for ALL of the UK. The DUP want Brexit but they wont budge or so it seems on NI staying in the Customs Union and single Market on their own (Cough, sorry, having "Regulatory alignment"). So what options does that leave us? Leaving in name only or abandoning Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-12-05 7:15 PM RogerC - 2017-12-05 6:31 PM I don't recall much of an outcry (this time....boohoo it's a Brexit thing again......oh lookey there's another remain straw to grasp at...) when Waloonia, population about 3.5 million almost scuppered the Canada-EU trade deal. Well thats what happens. Northern Ireland in effect have given Theresa May a way out if she really is still a remainer. David Davis is also insisting that "regulatory alignment" is acceptable but only acceptable for ALL of the UK. The DUP want Brexit but they wont budge or so it seems on NI staying in the Customs Union and single Market on their own (Cough, sorry, having "Regulatory alignment"). So what options does that leave us? Leaving in name only or abandoning Brexit. The DUP want the same as the rest of the United Kingdom voted for as a whole ... To leave ... Not something that further down the line might make it easier for a United Ireland , in the eyes of the Republic ... Your taking one hell of a leap on this to go from the DUP not accepting the proposal to abandoning Brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-12-05 7:35 PM Barryd999 - 2017-12-05 7:15 PM RogerC - 2017-12-05 6:31 PM I don't recall much of an outcry (this time....boohoo it's a Brexit thing again......oh lookey there's another remain straw to grasp at...) when Waloonia, population about 3.5 million almost scuppered the Canada-EU trade deal. Well thats what happens. Northern Ireland in effect have given Theresa May a way out if she really is still a remainer. David Davis is also insisting that "regulatory alignment" is acceptable but only acceptable for ALL of the UK. The DUP want Brexit but they wont budge or so it seems on NI staying in the Customs Union and single Market on their own (Cough, sorry, having "Regulatory alignment"). So what options does that leave us? Leaving in name only or abandoning Brexit. The DUP want the same as the rest of the United Kingdom voted for as a whole ... To leave ... Not something that further down the line might make it easier for a United Ireland , in the eyes of the Republic ... Your taking one hell of a leap on this to go from the DUP not accepting the proposal to abandoning Brexit The DUP tail wagging the Tory dog https://www.channel4.com/news/starmer-says-dup-tail-wagging-tory-dog-over-brexit Arlene Foster told the Republic of Ireland national broadcaster RTÉ that her party only saw the text of the deal on Monday morning, despite asking to see it for five weeks. She said it was a "big shock", adding: "Once we saw the text, we knew it was not going to be acceptable." Hhmm.....hardly a harmonious 'relationship'. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42231497 And yet another day passes with no terrorist attacks and bombs dropped on Huddersfield. No IS tanks clattering down the High street either. Seems to have gone very quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 John52 - 2017-12-05 6:44 PMBarryd999 - 2017-12-05 4:32 PM what is the point of leaving? So we can no longer go to the European Court of Justice when Her Majesty's Government cr*ps on us? ...and as a prime target I trust you'll be first in line to be.....https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/animals-pigeon-monument-memorial-bird-city_bird-dre0606_low.jpghttp://cdndata.bigfooty.com/2016/01/205408_5339332ef61304c2869e42e500e85eb8.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-12-05 7:35 PM Barryd999 - 2017-12-05 7:15 PM RogerC - 2017-12-05 6:31 PM I don't recall much of an outcry (this time....boohoo it's a Brexit thing again......oh lookey there's another remain straw to grasp at...) when Waloonia, population about 3.5 million almost scuppered the Canada-EU trade deal. Well thats what happens. Northern Ireland in effect have given Theresa May a way out if she really is still a remainer. David Davis is also insisting that "regulatory alignment" is acceptable but only acceptable for ALL of the UK. The DUP want Brexit but they wont budge or so it seems on NI staying in the Customs Union and single Market on their own (Cough, sorry, having "Regulatory alignment"). So what options does that leave us? Leaving in name only or abandoning Brexit. The DUP want the same as the rest of the United Kingdom voted for as a whole ... To leave ... Not something that further down the line might make it easier for a United Ireland , in the eyes of the Republic ... Your taking one hell of a leap on this to go from the DUP not accepting the proposal to abandoning Brexit Yes but the DUP Are a different beast to anything we are used to on lets say "The mainland". They will absolutely cut their noses off to spite their face and have put the government in a position where Davis and May are now having to back track and say "Regulatory Alignment" they were prepared to accept was for all of the UK not just Northern Ireland. What I Said was that if Brexit ends up as a result meaning we have only left in name and are still bowing to EU regulation and presumably the ECJ then what is the point of leaving? Its fine by me. Its the lesser of several evils but I doubt you or any of the other hard line Brexiteers will be happy about if it does turn out to mean what I think it does. What I was suggesting was though that if we end up leaving only in name but with most of the benefits but without a vote at the table what is the point of leaving, why not abandon Brexit and stay in as a full member? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I still find it difficult to understand why so many of you appear to accept every word from the politicians and journalists on this matter, especially if it reinforces your point of view. Nothing has been agreed by anyone yet, we are still in the wish lists stage, they are all taking part in this enormous game of bluff, in the hope that the UK will back down first, and I don't think we will. The government has said that they will walk away if we don't get agreement, so the DUP will, at some point, have to decide to withdraw their support and go to a general election or accept the best deal that Mrs May can give them. Whatever N.I. does in the next election is more or less irrelevant, either Labour or the Conservatives will form that government and either way the DUP are unlikely to be part of it. What's the chances of them not realising that they risk losing their only chance of ever wielding any influence if they withdraw their support. If people will stop trying to sabotage the negotiations and show a united front, the other 27 , most of whom have good reasons to want to get a good deal with the Uk, may finally come to terms with the reality that actually they are, for the most part, extremely anxious to get a good deal, and stop making stupid threats. We are the 5th richest country in the world, we do not need to buy our motor vehicles from Europe, as most of the World has shown. We are actually very rich in mineral resources, more so than any other country in Europe. We have a reasonably well educated population. We are world leaders in many aspects of research and development, we can buy all we need from sources outside Europe.. As expats it is unlikely that our position will become untenable . Just have a little faith. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-12-05 3:06 PM malc d - 2017-12-05 2:59 PM Barryd999 - 2017-12-05 2:42 PM I cant see a way out of the current DUP, Tory, Northern Ireland and Brexit negotiations situation. The only solution I can see is the whole of the UK to stay in the single market and customs union but wait! We wont have a vote or any say in decisions. That's what I like to see - someone who has arrived at a completely unbiased conclusion. ;-) I don't think that Brexit is stuffed. It will happen in some form or other. He said, without apparent bias or irony! :-D Brexit will not be the end ;-) ....... Even if it gets stuffed...... It'll just be the end of the beginning >:-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-12-05 8:50 PM antony1969 - 2017-12-05 7:35 PM Barryd999 - 2017-12-05 7:15 PM RogerC - 2017-12-05 6:31 PM I don't recall much of an outcry (this time....boohoo it's a Brexit thing again......oh lookey there's another remain straw to grasp at...) when Waloonia, population about 3.5 million almost scuppered the Canada-EU trade deal. Well thats what happens. Northern Ireland in effect have given Theresa May a way out if she really is still a remainer. David Davis is also insisting that "regulatory alignment" is acceptable but only acceptable for ALL of the UK. The DUP want Brexit but they wont budge or so it seems on NI staying in the Customs Union and single Market on their own (Cough, sorry, having "Regulatory alignment"). So what options does that leave us? Leaving in name only or abandoning Brexit. The DUP want the same as the rest of the United Kingdom voted for as a whole ... To leave ... Not something that further down the line might make it easier for a United Ireland , in the eyes of the Republic ... Your taking one hell of a leap on this to go from the DUP not accepting the proposal to abandoning Brexit The DUP tail wagging the Tory dog https://www.channel4.com/news/starmer-says-dup-tail-wagging-tory-dog-over-brexit Arlene Foster told the Republic of Ireland national broadcaster RTÉ that her party only saw the text of the deal on Monday morning, despite asking to see it for five weeks. She said it was a "big shock", adding: "Once we saw the text, we knew it was not going to be acceptable." Hhmm.....hardly a harmonious 'relationship'. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42231497 And yet another day passes with no terrorist attacks and bombs dropped on Huddersfield. No IS tanks clattering down the High street either. Seems to have gone very quiet. No terrorist bombs in Huddersfield yesterday ??? ... You sound really disappointed ... Your letter bomb not delivered yet ??? ... Should have put a first class stamp on it ... You've got the postcode too I imagine after hunting me down all over the internet ... You really ought to salute schools who show the children how to behave if God forbid one of those nutters got in ... The lesson may save lives which surely any person with a sound mind would be thankful for rather than mocking it ... I suppose your mocking it says more about the state of your mind though ... Shameful as usual , even more shameful than hunting down my address Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Archiesgrandad - 2017-12-05 10:02 PM this enormous game of bluff,............ We are the 5th richest country in the world AGD http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-12-05 7:35 PM The DUP want the same as the rest of the United Kingdom voted for as a whole ... To leave Yep -and to cherry pick which parts of the EU they want to keep, and get £350m a week back for the NHS *-) What the EU calls 'Have your cake and eat it' which they were led to believe was possible. Sooner or later they are going to have to reaise thatpoliticians have made them promises they can't keep. Reality was just beginning to set in when we started offering E50bn divorce settlement instead of this imaginary £350m a week back. But now, dissatisfied with their £billion ransom money to vote Tory, the DUP have come back for another bite of the cherry And I expect they will get it because the interests of the Tory party will be put before the interests of the country - again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 The answer seems to be it's anybody's guess http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42249854 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 John52 - 2017-12-06 9:58 AM antony1969 - 2017-12-05 7:35 PM The DUP want the same as the rest of the United Kingdom voted for as a whole ... To leave Yep -and to cherry pick which parts of the EU they want to keep, and get £350m a week back for the NHS *-) What the EU calls 'Have your cake and eat it' which they were led to believe was possible. Sooner or later they are going to have to reaise thatpoliticians have made them promises they can't keep. Reality was just beginning to set in when we started offering E50bn divorce settlement instead of this imaginary £350m a week back. But now, dissatisfied with their £billion ransom money to vote Tory, the DUP have come back for another bite of the cherry And I expect they will get it because the interests of the Tory party will be put before the interests of the country - again £50 billion has been officially announced as the sum has it ??? ... If so taking into consideration our net yearly contributions to that corrupt club it will take 3 to 4 years to pay off ... I could live with that figure ... Could the EU live without our 13% contribution to the EU budget though ... 13% of the budget out of 28 members , cracking deal that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-12-06 10:14 AM The answer seems to be it's anybody's guess http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42249854 No risk assessments done so no surprises there. *-) First phone in caller on a discussion show this morning about walking away with no deal.....a Brexit voter, "well i voted leave but i didn't vote to leave without any deal and if the referendum was held again i'd vote to remain". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-12-06 10:54 AM £50 billion has been officially announced as the sum has it ??? . ! Nope, thats just another of your false claims. I said E50 billion - its in the quote you posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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