Bulletguy Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Nope it's not a new Government scheme for disabled but May's latest scheme. The plans that ministers backed would see an end to freedom of movement. But a "mobility framework" would be set up to allow UK and EU citizens to travel to each other's territories, and apply to study and work. Ermm.....isn't that what we used to call freedom of movement?!! (lol) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44752273# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-07-08 4:25 PM Ermm.....isn't that what we used to call freedom of movement?!! (lol) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44752273# Not if WE can control the numbers. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Sounds just like what we should have allowed in the first place. Those with good cause to visit or work in the UK or the ability to support themselves and their dependents are very welcome - everyone else go forth and multiply somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Boris Johnson can criticise it and say he could have done better because, like Nigel Farage, he is not in a position where he has to deliver on his promises. The reality is we will have to accept what we can get, or no deal at all which will probably be worse because we will never get a better deal out than we had when we were in. :-( The EU must realise that if they gave us that they would be finished because everyone else would leave too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 malc d - 2018-07-08 5:15 PM Bulletguy - 2018-07-08 4:25 PM Ermm.....isn't that what we used to call freedom of movement?!! (lol) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44752273# Not if WE can control the numbers. :-| ......and kick them out when they overstay or commit crimes B-) ........ Why am I not surprised our raving loony lefties are against it *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 The tragic thing is we could have controlled Free movement and immigration but our government(s) chose not to. We didnt have to allow the eastern Europeans in when they became part of the EU but we did. We could have applied an emergency brake like other countries have but we never did and we have always been able to kick out those that dont work or become a drain on the state or are criminals. Most Brexiteers voted on the Immigration issue but it will never change which makes this self harm we are doing to ourselves even more tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 9:26 AM The tragic thing is we could have controlled Free movement and immigration but our government(s) chose not to. We didnt have to allow the eastern Europeans in when they became part of the EU but we did. We could have applied an emergency brake like other countries have but we never did and we have always been able to kick out those that dont work or become a drain on the state or are criminals. Most Brexiteers voted on the Immigration issue but it will never change which makes this self harm we are doing to ourselves even more tragic. As you say we could have ;-) ..........But we didn't *-) ..........So the only way for the plebs to ensure we do is to Take Back Control B-) ..........and who's trying to prevent that from happening???........... the same people who allowed rampant migration to happen in the first place >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-09 9:37 AM Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 9:26 AM The tragic thing is we could have controlled Free movement and immigration but our government(s) chose not to. We didnt have to allow the eastern Europeans in when they became part of the EU but we did. We could have applied an emergency brake like other countries have but we never did and we have always been able to kick out those that dont work or become a drain on the state or are criminals. Most Brexiteers voted on the Immigration issue but it will never change which makes this self harm we are doing to ourselves even more tragic. As you say we could have ;-) ..........But we didn't *-) ..........So the only way for the plebs to ensure we do is to Take Back Control B-) ..........and who's trying to prevent that from happening???........... the same people who allowed rampant migration to happen in the first place >:-) ......... And why do you think they didnt control immigration? Because its never been and never will be on the Tory or Labour Agenda. The Immigration issue was just vote fodder. Its not even a real issue, least not anymore. The EU has reformed its Free movement rules and its impossible to just come here as a sponger now. The only people coming here are coming to do the jobs none of us wants to do. Anyway. In breaking news it looks like "The Sainted Theresa" is joining forces with Labour to finally bury the Hard Brexit headbangers. Another unhappy day in Brexit la la land. I Cant wait to get over to the Brexpress. Should be a good laugh today. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 Tracker - 2018-07-08 6:07 PM Sounds just like what we should have allowed in the first place. Those with good cause to visit or work in the UK or the ability to support themselves and their dependents are very welcome - everyone else go forth and multiply somewhere else. Such as many invaluable EU workers which staffed the NHS who no longer feel secure here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-09 9:37 AM Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 9:26 AM The tragic thing is we could have controlled Free movement and immigration but our government(s) chose not to. We didnt have to allow the eastern Europeans in when they became part of the EU but we did. We could have applied an emergency brake like other countries have but we never did and we have always been able to kick out those that dont work or become a drain on the state or are criminals. Most Brexiteers voted on the Immigration issue but it will never change which makes this self harm we are doing to ourselves even more tragic. As you say we could have ;-) ..........But we didn't *-) ..........So the only way for the plebs to ensure we do is to Take Back Control B-) ..........and who's trying to prevent that from happening???........... the same people who allowed rampant migration to happen in the first place >:-) ......... You appear to acknowledge that the fault in controlling migration lay in a lack of enforcement of the controls we already had, unless I misunderstand this post Dave. On what basis do you think things will be any different once/if we leave the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-08 6:58 PM malc d - 2018-07-08 5:15 PM Bulletguy - 2018-07-08 4:25 PM Ermm.....isn't that what we used to call freedom of movement?!! (lol) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44752273# Not if WE can control the numbers. :-| ......and kick them out when they overstay or commit crimes B-) ........ Why am I not surprised our raving loony lefties are against it *-) ........ Oh the irony coming from a regular over stayer in Spain! Hopefully they will kick you out! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 9:26 AM The tragic thing is we could have controlled Free movement and immigration but our government(s) chose not to. We didnt have to allow the eastern Europeans in when they became part of the EU but we did. We could have applied an emergency brake like other countries have but we never did . Dead right. So you shouldn't have been so surprised when the majority of voters, voted to leave. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-09 9:37 AM Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 9:26 AM The tragic thing is we could have controlled Free movement and immigration but our government(s) chose not to. We didnt have to allow the eastern Europeans in when they became part of the EU but we did. We could have applied an emergency brake like other countries have but we never did and we have always been able to kick out those that dont work or become a drain on the state or are criminals. Most Brexiteers voted on the Immigration issue but it will never change which makes this self harm we are doing to ourselves even more tragic. As you say we could have ;-) ..........But we didn't *-) ..........So the only way for the plebs to ensure we do is to Take Back Control B-) ..........and who's trying to prevent that from happening???........... the same people who allowed rampant migration to happen in the first place >:-) ......... Which minister dismantled the UK Border Force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 malc d - 2018-07-09 11:23 AM Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 9:26 AM The tragic thing is we could have controlled Free movement and immigration but our government(s) chose not to. We didnt have to allow the eastern Europeans in when they became part of the EU but we did. We could have applied an emergency brake like other countries have but we never did . Dead right. So you shouldn't have been so surprised when the majority of voters, voted to leave. :-( Well I am surprised. Well Im not really because for years government and the media have blamed the EU for many things, including immigration when really the fault often lies with our own policies. If the public had realised this they should have also realised that leaving the EU would make no difference to Immigration as our government has no intention of reducing it anyway. Besides since the referendum its become pretty clear just how much we actually need the immigrants that so many people voted to get rid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 11:32 AM malc d - 2018-07-09 11:23 AM Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 9:26 AM The tragic thing is we could have controlled Free movement and immigration but our government(s) chose not to. We didnt have to allow the eastern Europeans in when they became part of the EU but we did. We could have applied an emergency brake like other countries have but we never did . Dead right. So you shouldn't have been so surprised when the majority of voters, voted to leave. :-( Besides since the referendum its become pretty clear just how much we actually need the immigrants that so many people voted to get rid of. I don't think that many people actually voted to " get rid of " EU immigrants - they just didn't like so many people ( from all over the world ) coming so quickly when the country couldn't cope with the numbers. 2 or 3 hundred thousand arriving every year for the foreseeable future - when we have a shortage of housing - hospital beds - school places - ( and road space ! ) is clearly just not sustainable when we had no plan to accommodate them. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 malc d - 2018-07-09 11:46 AM Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 11:32 AM malc d - 2018-07-09 11:23 AM Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 9:26 AM The tragic thing is we could have controlled Free movement and immigration but our government(s) chose not to. We didnt have to allow the eastern Europeans in when they became part of the EU but we did. We could have applied an emergency brake like other countries have but we never did . Dead right. So you shouldn't have been so surprised when the majority of voters, voted to leave. :-( Besides since the referendum its become pretty clear just how much we actually need the immigrants that so many people voted to get rid of. I don't think that many people actually voted to " get rid of " EU immigrants - they just didn't like so many people ( from all over the world ) coming so quickly when the country couldn't cope with the numbers. 2 or 3 hundred thousand arriving every year for the foreseeable future - when we have a shortage of housing - hospital beds - school places - ( and road space ! ) is clearly just not sustainable when we had no plan to accommodate them. :-| Well that was the line that the Daily Mail spouted for long enough I guess but we had all this debate over and over again before the referendum. Its supply and demand. EU workers in the main come here to work. They dont (despite what the Mail and Brexpress might say) come here for a free ride. If there was no demand (jobs) for them they would stop coming, its as simple as that. Anyway Brexit or no Brexit they are leaving. Places like Romania thanks to it being in the EU are now really starting to fly, their economy is really lifting off and coupled with the self harm we have done to our own economy and the fact that people dont feel welcome anymore much fewer EU citizens are choosing to either stay or come here so the Brexiteers are getting their wish whether we leave or not. Trouble is though we still need people to do the jobs they did so the government has already had to relax its laws on immigration from outside of the EU for the NHS. Where next will they have to do that? Fruit pickers, factory workers, care homes, hospitality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 malc d - 2018-07-09 11:46 AM Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 11:32 AM malc d - 2018-07-09 11:23 AM Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 9:26 AM The tragic thing is we could have controlled Free movement and immigration but our government(s) chose not to. We didnt have to allow the eastern Europeans in when they became part of the EU but we did. We could have applied an emergency brake like other countries have but we never did . Dead right. So you shouldn't have been so surprised when the majority of voters, voted to leave. :-( Besides since the referendum its become pretty clear just how much we actually need the immigrants that so many people voted to get rid of. I don't think that many people actually voted to " get rid of " EU immigrants - they just didn't like so many people ( from all over the world ) coming so quickly when the country couldn't cope with the numbers. You mean like Barnsley Brexit man? (lol) Also Barnsley woman! Ee bah gum they don't 'alf get 'em up there!! (lol) 2 or 3 hundred thousand arriving every year for the foreseeable future - when we have a shortage of housing - hospital beds - school places - ( and road space ! ) is clearly just not sustainable when we had no plan to accommodate them. :-| Net migration is way down Malc plus people overlook the fact figures for non-EU migration were actually higher than EU. Another point often ignored is the number of UK citizens who migrated to various countries. Agree about road space, particularly anywhere south, but anywhere north of Carlisle and you feel as though you are on another planet with traffic free roads. UK actually has quite a lot of undeveloped land stretching for miles....best viewed from the air on a clear cloudless day. You'd be staggered at the amount we have and i'm always puzzled as to why 'new builds' are such miniscule little properties (not cheap either) all clumped together as estates. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/november2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-07-09 11:20 AM pelmetman - 2018-07-09 9:37 AM Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 9:26 AM The tragic thing is we could have controlled Free movement and immigration but our government(s) chose not to. We didnt have to allow the eastern Europeans in when they became part of the EU but we did. We could have applied an emergency brake like other countries have but we never did and we have always been able to kick out those that dont work or become a drain on the state or are criminals. Most Brexiteers voted on the Immigration issue but it will never change which makes this self harm we are doing to ourselves even more tragic. As you say we could have ;-) ..........But we didn't *-) ..........So the only way for the plebs to ensure we do is to Take Back Control B-) ..........and who's trying to prevent that from happening???........... the same people who allowed rampant migration to happen in the first place >:-) ......... You appear to acknowledge that the fault in controlling migration lay in a lack of enforcement of the controls we already had, unless I misunderstand this post Dave. On what basis do you think things will be any different once/if we leave the EU? If they're not then I suspect the electorate will be looking to give our politicians a bloody nose at the next election >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-07-09 12:32 PM Net migration is way down Malc …………………………….. That may well be true - but is totally irrelevant to the vote taken two years ago. The Brexit vote was based on numbers arriving between two and five years ago. ( Horse and stable door come to mind ). ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 malc d - 2018-07-09 1:32 PM Bulletguy - 2018-07-09 12:32 PM Net migration is way down Malc …………………………….. That may well be true - but is totally irrelevant to the vote taken two years ago. The Brexit vote was based on numbers arriving between two and five years ago. ( Horse and stable door come to mind ). ;-) Only for the moment ;-) ........There's apparently another 700,000 queuing in North Africa to reach La la land 8-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-09 1:59 PM ..There's apparently another 700,000 queuing in North Africa to reach La la land 8-) ........ That might be because they've heard that there is increasing opposition over here to foreign aid, which is designed to help them stay where they are. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-07-09 12:39 PM Violet1956 - 2018-07-09 11:20 AM pelmetman - 2018-07-09 9:37 AM Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 9:26 AM The tragic thing is we could have controlled Free movement and immigration but our government(s) chose not to. We didnt have to allow the eastern Europeans in when they became part of the EU but we did. We could have applied an emergency brake like other countries have but we never did and we have always been able to kick out those that dont work or become a drain on the state or are criminals. Most Brexiteers voted on the Immigration issue but it will never change which makes this self harm we are doing to ourselves even more tragic. As you say we could have ;-) ..........But we didn't *-) ..........So the only way for the plebs to ensure we do is to Take Back Control B-) ..........and who's trying to prevent that from happening???........... the same people who allowed rampant migration to happen in the first place >:-) ......... You appear to acknowledge that the fault in controlling migration lay in a lack of enforcement of the controls we already had, unless I misunderstand this post Dave. On what basis do you think things will be any different once/if we leave the EU? If they're not then I suspect the electorate will be looking to give our politicians a bloody nose at the next election >:-) ......... But wont that mean voting in Jeremy Corbyn Dave? Something that you said would never happen. So wouldnt that mean I was correct then that Brexit could lead to a Corbyn government? I can tell you now for nothing that free movement (under a different name) will carry on as part of whatever deal we strike as despite the current rubbish thats been spouted from number 10 the point they will be forced to arrive at is Single Market and CU membership or as good as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 2:44 PM pelmetman - 2018-07-09 12:39 PM Violet1956 - 2018-07-09 11:20 AM pelmetman - 2018-07-09 9:37 AM Barryd999 - 2018-07-09 9:26 AM The tragic thing is we could have controlled Free movement and immigration but our government(s) chose not to. We didnt have to allow the eastern Europeans in when they became part of the EU but we did. We could have applied an emergency brake like other countries have but we never did and we have always been able to kick out those that dont work or become a drain on the state or are criminals. Most Brexiteers voted on the Immigration issue but it will never change which makes this self harm we are doing to ourselves even more tragic. As you say we could have ;-) ..........But we didn't *-) ..........So the only way for the plebs to ensure we do is to Take Back Control B-) ..........and who's trying to prevent that from happening???........... the same people who allowed rampant migration to happen in the first place >:-) ......... You appear to acknowledge that the fault in controlling migration lay in a lack of enforcement of the controls we already had, unless I misunderstand this post Dave. On what basis do you think things will be any different once/if we leave the EU? If they're not then I suspect the electorate will be looking to give our politicians a bloody nose at the next election >:-) ......... But wont that mean voting in Jeremy Corbyn Dave? Something that you said would never happen. So wouldnt that mean I was correct then that Brexit could lead to a Corbyn government? I can tell you now for nothing that free movement (under a different name) will carry on as part of whatever deal we strike as despite the current rubbish thats been spouted from number 10 the point they will be forced to arrive at is Single Market and CU membership or as good as. Not at all..........The Tories will just vote in a new leader ;-) ...........and hopefully he/she will be a proper hardcore Brexiteer >:-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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