Bulletguy Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 A recommendation for all frontline NHS staff to be given protective equipment during a flu epidemic was rejected as too costly, an explosive memo reveals. Labour said the decision – made in 2017, when Jeremy Hunt was the health secretary – left “serious questions” for ministers to answer about whether underfunding was now costing lives. In recent weeks, doctors and nurses have protested against a shortage of equipment which has left them at risk of contracting – and spreading – coronavirus on hospital wards. Now the document shows advisers called for “eye protection for all hospital, community, ambulance and social care staff who have close contact with pandemic influenza patients”. Either visors or safety glasses should be provided, because of evidence of becoming infected via the eyes when in close contact with pandemic influenza patients, they said. The recommendation came from Nervtag, a body set up in 2015 to prepare for the new and emerging threat from respiratory viruses. However, according to minutes of a meeting in June 2017, seen by The Guardian, a health official rejected it because of “the very large incremental cost of adding in eye protection”. Jonathan Ashworth MP, Labour’s shadow health secretary, said: “There are serious questions for the government to answer about why warnings on providing equipment were ignored and dismissed because of underfunding." Indeed there are. :-( https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-nhs-protective-equipment-jeremy-hunt-eye-protection-a9431311.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 Underfunding not just in the NHS.....busses ,trains, roads, schools, ........Tax needs to increase to pay for our needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-03-29 8:08 AM Underfunding not just in the NHS.....busses ,trains, roads, schools, ........Tax needs to increase to pay for our needs. Personal tax increases are not a popular vote winner though. Budgets have been cut and this shows where on average they increased by 1.4% in the 10 years between 2009/10 to 2018/19, it's actually a cut of 2.3%pa average from when the NHS was first established. https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget Where the NHS is publicly funded (though not 'free' as such), public transport apart from infrastructure is in private ownership with France, Germany and Netherlands owning much of it after government sold it off. But going back to thread topic, it's disturbing to see that basic PPE essentials for NHS staff had been rejected as "too costly" after a recommendation in 2017. Not the best comparison but it's like every biker rejecting purpose made leathers because of the expense....not illegal, but certainly foolhardy and irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rael Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 I'll be going into work tomorrow to begin 'printing' headbands for NHS face visors on our 3D printers. There are no where near enough at the moment so volunteers are using their own resources to help out. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52111522 I'll also be posting 6 pairs of safety glasses 'borrowed' from work, to my sons girlfriend who works on the Covid-19 ward at a large hospital in Manchester. We also 'donated' another 40 pairs to our local hospital last Friday, they were delighted. Is this the life we really want? This is an insane situation, brought about by years of running down the NHS and penny pinching. As with the crash of 2008, its the many decent men/woman who are bearing the brunt for the greed and callousness of the few. People like Hunt and his cronies should be ashamed at what they did to the NHS, the police and schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 There is a finite amount of money .Put up tax ,then you can spend. Limited money = limited funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 A finite amount of money? Tories spent the election campaign jeering and laughing at Labours Magic money tree plans then once they won produced their own magic money tree and were spaffing money left right and centre until this pandemic arrived which knocked all that into a cocked hat. They can find billions for a stupid train to Birmingham which by the time it arrives will be obsolete. Its no secret the Tories despise the NHS and have wanted to privatise it for many years. Now its on its arse right when we really need it and all we are getting now is lie after lie and excuse after excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-04-01 7:49 AM A finite amount of money? Tories spent the election campaign jeering and laughing at Labours Magic money tree plans then once they won produced their own magic money tree and were spaffing money left right and centre until this pandemic arrived which knocked all that into a cocked hat. They can find billions for a stupid train to Birmingham which by the time it arrives will be obsolete. Its no secret the Tories despise the NHS and have wanted to privatise it for many years. Now its on its arse right when we really need it and all we are getting now is lie after lie and excuse after excuse. There..there...I think you might have a temperature again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-04-01 11:55 AM Barryd999 - 2020-04-01 7:49 AM A finite amount of money? Tories spent the election campaign jeering and laughing at Labours Magic money tree plans then once they won produced their own magic money tree and were spaffing money left right and centre until this pandemic arrived which knocked all that into a cocked hat. They can find billions for a stupid train to Birmingham which by the time it arrives will be obsolete. Its no secret the Tories despise the NHS and have wanted to privatise it for many years. Now its on its arse right when we really need it and all we are getting now is lie after lie and excuse after excuse. There..there...I think you might have a temperature again. I think all Barry is arguing is that if the government wants/needs to increase its spending - for whatever reason - it needs to increase its income accordingly, but should also answer for its past "stealth cuts". The real question is, will they? It'll be politically very embarrassing for them. A notorious SPAD said at the time of the attack on the World Trade Centre in 2011, "It is now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury". Having been driven to spending billions we don't have on combatting the corona virus, and becoming, as I suspect they will, politically unpopular as the truth behind the various equipment shortages emerges post hoc, raising taxes in order to pay down those unavoidable costs might not be such a bad line to adopt in switching from the party of short sighted tax cuts, to something resembling realism. But who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 1, 2020 Author Share Posted April 1, 2020 rael - 2020-03-31 11:35 PM I'll be going into work tomorrow to begin 'printing' headbands for NHS face visors on our 3D printers. There are no where near enough at the moment so volunteers are using their own resources to help out. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52111522 I'll also be posting 6 pairs of safety glasses 'borrowed' from work, to my sons girlfriend who works on the Covid-19 ward at a large hospital in Manchester. We also 'donated' another 40 pairs to our local hospital last Friday, they were delighted. Brilliant gesture. I've only read and heard about 3D printers and unlike you, never seen one in action. The technology fascinates me and would love to see one in process. I imagine it's like something from a sci-fi movie scene!!? 1)Is this the life we really want? This is an insane situation, brought about by years of running down the NHS and penny pinching. As with the crash of 2008, its the many decent men/woman who are bearing the brunt for the greed and callousness of the few. 2) People like Hunt and his cronies should be ashamed at what they did to the NHS, the police and schools. 1) I couldn't agree more Rael and yes it certainly is insane. The endless cuts, not only within the NHS but all frontline emergency services makes my blood boil. I've been watching a three part documentary on a police force near my area and the depletion is chilling. An Inspector briefing his force members at a daily meeting showed just a dozen PC's in attendance. He said fifteen years ago that same room would have been packed with over 50 officers. That police station has since closed down and what officers the force had left have moved to share the local fire brigade building. Paramedics, doctors, nurses, call dispatchers, firefighters, police....all these services have been cut to the bare bone and those left working in the services, under extreme pressure. Why we continued to go down this path of cuts, cuts, cuts, is beyond me and beggars belief as most of us at some point in our lives turn to these people. Its sheer madness. 2) Hunt was the longest serving Health Sec with almost six years at the helm and certainly oversaw a lot of damage to our NHS. However i do think since joining the back benches he now sings from a very different hymn sheet and that was most recently notable by a simple question he raised in the House at PMQs to Johnson who replied with much stuttering bluster and huff.....without giving an answer. I'm afraid Johnson does not and never has, instilled me with much confidence as PM at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Could almost be a Brexit or Grenfell thread ... The squads ammunition is now the China Virus ... Close your eyes and you could guess the names of the contributors to another thinly disguised anti-Tory thread ... Lordy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 1, 2020 Author Share Posted April 1, 2020 Rael, Any chance your 3D printer could knock out some ventilators? Take a look at this. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-04-01 5:16 PM Could almost be a Brexit or Grenfell thread ... The squads ammunition is now the China Virus ... Close your eyes and you could guess the names of the contributors to another thinly disguised anti-Tory thread ... Lordy Don’t think I said anything anti- Tory, just Common sense. My you are a little touchy about the Tory’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-04-01 7:04 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-01 5:16 PM Could almost be a Brexit or Grenfell thread ... The squads ammunition is now the China Virus ... Close your eyes and you could guess the names of the contributors to another thinly disguised anti-Tory thread ... Lordy Don’t think I said anything anti- Tory, just Common sense. My you are a little touchy about the Tory’s. I know you lack a little upstairs ... Read again my post "thinly disguised anti-Tory thread" ... No one said you mentioned the Tories ... Hate on "touchy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-04-01 7:36 PM jumpstart - 2020-04-01 7:04 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-01 5:16 PM Could almost be a Brexit or Grenfell thread ... The squads ammunition is now the China Virus ... Close your eyes and you could guess the names of the contributors to another thinly disguised anti-Tory thread ... Lordy Don’t think I said anything anti- Tory, just Common sense. My you are a little touchy about the Tory’s. I know you lack a little upstairs ... Read again my post "thinly disguised anti-Tory thread" ... No one said you mentioned the Tories ... Hate on "touchy" Less of the personal insults. You said anti-Tory thread, it isn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-04-01 7:45 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-01 7:36 PM jumpstart - 2020-04-01 7:04 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-01 5:16 PM Could almost be a Brexit or Grenfell thread ... The squads ammunition is now the China Virus ... Close your eyes and you could guess the names of the contributors to another thinly disguised anti-Tory thread ... Lordy Don’t think I said anything anti- Tory, just Common sense. My you are a little touchy about the Tory’s. I know you lack a little upstairs ... Read again my post "thinly disguised anti-Tory thread" ... No one said you mentioned the Tories ... Hate on "touchy" Less of the personal insults. You said anti-Tory thread, it isn’t. You conveniently missed out the word "disguised" ... Look it up ... Actually dont cos you wont understand it anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 1, 2020 Author Share Posted April 1, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-04-01 7:45 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-01 7:36 PM jumpstart - 2020-04-01 7:04 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-01 5:16 PM Could almost be a Brexit or Grenfell thread ... The squads ammunition is now the China Virus ... Close your eyes and you could guess the names of the contributors to another thinly disguised anti-Tory thread ... Lordy Don’t think I said anything anti- Tory, just Common sense. My you are a little touchy about the Tory’s. I know you lack a little upstairs ... Read again my post "thinly disguised anti-Tory thread" ... No one said you mentioned the Tories ... Hate on "touchy" Less of the personal insults. You said anti-Tory thread, it isn’t. J/start....just ignore him. He's trolling with the sole intention of derailing the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-04-01 7:56 PM jumpstart - 2020-04-01 7:45 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-01 7:36 PM jumpstart - 2020-04-01 7:04 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-01 5:16 PM Could almost be a Brexit or Grenfell thread ... The squads ammunition is now the China Virus ... Close your eyes and you could guess the names of the contributors to another thinly disguised anti-Tory thread ... Lordy Don’t think I said anything anti- Tory, just Common sense. My you are a little touchy about the Tory’s. I know you lack a little upstairs ... Read again my post "thinly disguised anti-Tory thread" ... No one said you mentioned the Tories ... Hate on "touchy" Less of the personal insults. You said anti-Tory thread, it isn’t. J/start....just ignore him. He's trolling with the sole intention of derailing the thread. Mmmm ... I dont think the forum will take note of what you , a bigoted homophobe says ... Well they might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-04-01 7:56 PM jumpstart - 2020-04-01 7:45 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-01 7:36 PM jumpstart - 2020-04-01 7:04 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-01 5:16 PM Could almost be a Brexit or Grenfell thread ... The squads ammunition is now the China Virus ... Close your eyes and you could guess the names of the contributors to another thinly disguised anti-Tory thread ... Lordy Don’t think I said anything anti- Tory, just Common sense. My you are a little touchy about the Tory’s. I know you lack a little upstairs ... Read again my post "thinly disguised anti-Tory thread" ... No one said you mentioned the Tories ... Hate on "touchy" Less of the personal insults. You said anti-Tory thread, it isn’t. J/start....just ignore him. He's trolling with the sole intention of derailing the thread. Up I agree,it’s a complete waste off time with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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