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Revoke Article 50 debate


Bulletguy

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Parliament debate this matter later today after one of the largest petitions in history with over six million signing (only 600k signed the 'no deal'). It's a combined three into one debate of revoking A50, second referendum, or no deal, which i don't think particularly helpful because the petitions committee want all discussed ''as soon as possible''. They've had three years to consider these matters would need addressing.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-revoke-article-50-debate-petition-theresa-may-commons-vote-a8849201.html

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47772682

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Guest pelmetman
Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 2:50 PM

 

 

Parliament debate this matter later today after one of the largest petitions in history with over six million signing (only 600k signed the 'no deal'). It's a combined three into one debate of revoking A50, second referendum, or no deal, which i don't think particularly helpful because the petitions committee want all discussed ''as soon as possible''. They've had three years to consider these matters would need addressing.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-revoke-article-50-debate-petition-theresa-may-commons-vote-a8849201.html

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47772682

 

It's a shame your other 10 million Losers couldn't be ar*ed to sign it >:-) .......

 

 

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pelmetman - 2019-04-01 2:53 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 2:50 PM

 

 

Parliament debate this matter later today after one of the largest petitions in history with over six million signing (only 600k signed the 'no deal'). It's a combined three into one debate of revoking A50, second referendum, or no deal, which i don't think particularly helpful because the petitions committee want all discussed ''as soon as possible''. They've had three years to consider these matters would need addressing.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-revoke-article-50-debate-petition-theresa-may-commons-vote-a8849201.html

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47772682

 

It's a shame your other 10 million Losers couldn't be ar*ed to sign it >:-) .......

You mean like the 17 million, 259 thousand and 742 that can't be ars*d to sign yours then? Lucky for you both are petitions and not polls but you never quite understood the difference did you?

 

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Guest pelmetman
Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 3:17 PM

 

pelmetman - 2019-04-01 2:53 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 2:50 PM

 

 

Parliament debate this matter later today after one of the largest petitions in history with over six million signing (only 600k signed the 'no deal'). It's a combined three into one debate of revoking A50, second referendum, or no deal, which i don't think particularly helpful because the petitions committee want all discussed ''as soon as possible''. They've had three years to consider these matters would need addressing.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-revoke-article-50-debate-petition-theresa-may-commons-vote-a8849201.html

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47772682

 

It's a shame your other 10 million Losers couldn't be ar*ed to sign it >:-) .......

You mean like the 17 million, 259 thousand and 742 that can't be ars*d to sign yours then? Lucky for you both are petitions and not polls but you never quite understood the difference did you?

 

It's only been running 3 days ;-) ..........

 

Yet without any advertising from our Remoaner biased media it got to over 100k signatures already B-) ........

 

 

 

 

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Barryd999 - 2019-04-01 3:32 PM

 

And how long did your first one run for? Six months I think.

 

Compare the two new ones after three days?

 

face it Dave. As has been said there is only a very small number of Brexiteers who's hearts are still in this.

 

6 months ago I doubt there were so many who were considering leaving with No Deal as a serious option ;-) .....

 

Even the EU are considering it now >:-) ........

 

 

 

 

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pelmetman - 2019-04-01 3:23 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 3:17 PM

 

pelmetman - 2019-04-01 2:53 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 2:50 PM

 

 

Parliament debate this matter later today after one of the largest petitions in history with over six million signing (only 600k signed the 'no deal'). It's a combined three into one debate of revoking A50, second referendum, or no deal, which i don't think particularly helpful because the petitions committee want all discussed ''as soon as possible''. They've had three years to consider these matters would need addressing.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-revoke-article-50-debate-petition-theresa-may-commons-vote-a8849201.html

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47772682

 

It's a shame your other 10 million Losers couldn't be ar*ed to sign it >:-) .......

You mean like the 17 million, 259 thousand and 742 that can't be ars*d to sign yours then? Lucky for you both are petitions and not polls but you never quite understood the difference did you?

 

It's only been running 3 days ;-) ..........

 

Yet without any advertising from our Remoaner biased media it got to over 100k signatures already B-) ........

As you persist in conflating petition with poll (when it's Remain related), how many days it's run is irrelevant. The referendum ran for one day so your much trumpeted 17 million, 259 thousand and 742 should have been all over your little petition like a rash.....but it's only achieved a few thousand.

 

Apart from trashing a country, dividing the population, chucking thousands of people out of work, chasing businesses out, and handing almost a trillion £ over to Germany, you've achieved absolutely nothing.

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Guest pelmetman
Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 3:50 PM

 

Apart from trashing a country, dividing the population, chucking thousands of people out of work, chasing businesses out, and handing almost a trillion £ over to Germany, you've achieved absolutely nothing.

 

It's funny how it's Germany who is in the cack then? (lol) ..........

 

It's looking like Brexit is the best thing to happen to our economy since the Industrial Revolution B-) .....

 

 

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pelmetman - 2019-04-01 3:56 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 3:50 PM

 

Apart from trashing a country, dividing the population, chucking thousands of people out of work, chasing businesses out, and handing almost a trillion £ over to Germany, you've achieved absolutely nothing.

 

It's funny how it's Germany who is in the cack then? (lol) ..........

 

It's looking like Brexit is the best thing to happen to our economy since the Industrial Revolution B-) .....

We've gone over this with you before and you lost the argument. Until you start spending some time in Germany you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Instead of sitting on the same field in the same place in Spain every year i suggest you take your blinkers off and start touring Germany and meeting people there.

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Guest pelmetman
Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 4:19 PM

 

pelmetman - 2019-04-01 3:56 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 3:50 PM

 

Apart from trashing a country, dividing the population, chucking thousands of people out of work, chasing businesses out, and handing almost a trillion £ over to Germany, you've achieved absolutely nothing.

 

It's funny how it's Germany who is in the cack then? (lol) ..........

 

It's looking like Brexit is the best thing to happen to our economy since the Industrial Revolution B-) .....

We've gone over this with you before and you lost the argument. Until you start spending some time in Germany you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Instead of sitting on the same field in the same place in Spain every year i suggest you take your blinkers off and start touring Germany and meeting people there.

 

How will me touring Germany stop their economy from tanking????? :D ........

 

After all.......Didn't you lot say we need them more than they need us? >:-) ........

 

 

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pelmetman - 2019-04-01 4:24 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 4:19 PM

 

pelmetman - 2019-04-01 3:56 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 3:50 PM

 

Apart from trashing a country, dividing the population, chucking thousands of people out of work, chasing businesses out, and handing almost a trillion £ over to Germany, you've achieved absolutely nothing.

 

It's funny how it's Germany who is in the cack then? (lol) ..........

 

It's looking like Brexit is the best thing to happen to our economy since the Industrial Revolution B-) .....

We've gone over this with you before and you lost the argument. Until you start spending some time in Germany you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Instead of sitting on the same field in the same place in Spain every year i suggest you take your blinkers off and start touring Germany and meeting people there.

 

How will me touring Germany stop their economy from tanking????? :D ........

It would enlighten your heavily blinkered vision for a start. You see this is where your wild hyperbole gets totally ridiculous. For a country which...according to your skewed ill informed view...has "an economy which is tanking"...they enjoy a far superior lifestyle than the average Brit and you certainly won't find any living in a 30 year old rusty tub drinking cheap alcohol and living off frozen food.

 

 

After all.......Didn't you lot say we need them more than they need us? >:-) ........

Seeing as Deutsche Bahn own several of our rail franchises and employs thousands in industry besides, unless you're prepared to start buying it back from them, assuming they'd sell, then you haven't "taken back control" have you? Oh dear.

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Guest pelmetman
Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 6:18 PM

 

pelmetman - 2019-04-01 4:24 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 4:19 PM

 

pelmetman - 2019-04-01 3:56 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 3:50 PM

 

Apart from trashing a country, dividing the population, chucking thousands of people out of work, chasing businesses out, and handing almost a trillion £ over to Germany, you've achieved absolutely nothing.

 

It's funny how it's Germany who is in the cack then? (lol) ..........

 

It's looking like Brexit is the best thing to happen to our economy since the Industrial Revolution B-) .....

We've gone over this with you before and you lost the argument. Until you start spending some time in Germany you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Instead of sitting on the same field in the same place in Spain every year i suggest you take your blinkers off and start touring Germany and meeting people there.

 

How will me touring Germany stop their economy from tanking????? :D ........

It would enlighten your heavily blinkered vision for a start. You see this is where your wild hyperbole gets totally ridiculous. For a country which...according to your skewed ill informed view...has "an economy which is tanking"...they enjoy a far superior lifestyle than the average Brit and you certainly won't find any living in a 30 year old rusty tub drinking cheap alcohol and living off frozen food.

 

 

After all.......Didn't you lot say we need them more than they need us? >:-) ........

Seeing as Deutsche Bahn own several of our rail franchises and employs thousands in industry besides, unless you're prepared to start buying it back from them, assuming they'd sell, then you haven't "taken back control" have you? Oh dear.

 

So why is our economy out performing Germany IN SPITE OF BREXIT????? >:-) .........

 

According your Remoaner EXPERTS we should be deep into recession by now (lol) (lol) (lol) ........

 

 

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pelmetman - 2019-04-01 8:10 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 6:18 PM

 

pelmetman - 2019-04-01 4:24 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 4:19 PM

 

pelmetman - 2019-04-01 3:56 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2019-04-01 3:50 PM

 

Apart from trashing a country, dividing the population, chucking thousands of people out of work, chasing businesses out, and handing almost a trillion £ over to Germany, you've achieved absolutely nothing.

 

It's funny how it's Germany who is in the cack then? (lol) ..........

 

It's looking like Brexit is the best thing to happen to our economy since the Industrial Revolution B-) .....

We've gone over this with you before and you lost the argument. Until you start spending some time in Germany you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Instead of sitting on the same field in the same place in Spain every year i suggest you take your blinkers off and start touring Germany and meeting people there.

 

How will me touring Germany stop their economy from tanking????? :D ........

It would enlighten your heavily blinkered vision for a start. You see this is where your wild hyperbole gets totally ridiculous. For a country which...according to your skewed ill informed view...has "an economy which is tanking"...they enjoy a far superior lifestyle than the average Brit and you certainly won't find any living in a 30 year old rusty tub drinking cheap alcohol and living off frozen food.

 

 

After all.......Didn't you lot say we need them more than they need us? >:-) ........

Seeing as Deutsche Bahn own several of our rail franchises and employs thousands in industry besides, unless you're prepared to start buying it back from them, assuming they'd sell, then you haven't "taken back control" have you? Oh dear.

 

So why is our economy out performing Germany IN SPITE OF BREXIT????? >:-) .........

 

According your Remoaner EXPERTS we should be deep into recession by now (lol) (lol) (lol) ........

Yet again another of your many false equivalence you resort to when unable to address the issues put to you with any credible facts. Contrary to your belief based on little other than wild conjecture and, for some peculiar reason, a rabid dislike of Germany, a country you know absolutely nothing about, it's actually much stronger than that of the UK. Our budget surplus is -8.2% of GDP which ranks us 163rd whilst German has a budget surplus of +0.1% of GDP ranking them 35th. Their GDP is $3.40 trillion, which ranks them 5th and 40% more than UK with $2.44 trillion at 7th place.

 

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Germany/United-Kingdom/Economy

 

And do stop SHOUTING all the time. It's all so Brexity and reduces reasoned debate to thug mentality.

 

I don't recall any Remain voters claiming 'deep recession' but for sure we will have many more years of austerity which your party claimed at conference was "over".

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Petitions debate here;

 

 

Some very good speeches including in defence of the 6 million petition when one or two who were against not seeming to understand the difference between that and a referendum!

 

The whole debate will be available permanently afterwards as a video on the Youtube Parliament channel, and will be shown on Friday and also at the weekend on the Parliament TV channel.

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pelmetman - 2019-04-01 3:44 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2019-04-01 3:32 PM

 

And how long did your first one run for? Six months I think.

 

Compare the two new ones after three days?

 

face it Dave. As has been said there is only a very small number of Brexiteers who's hearts are still in this.

 

6 months ago I doubt there were so many who were considering leaving with No Deal as a serious option ;-) .....

 

Even the EU are considering it now >:-) ........

 

 

 

 

You have been telling us for three years that no deal is the way to go and its what people voted for and they were able to sign that petition any time within the last six months. You have to face facts Dave. Nobody wants no deal. Your petitions prove it.

 

 

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Guest pelmetman
Barryd999 - 2019-04-01 11:09 PM

 

pelmetman - 2019-04-01 3:44 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2019-04-01 3:32 PM

 

And how long did your first one run for? Six months I think.

 

Compare the two new ones after three days?

 

face it Dave. As has been said there is only a very small number of Brexiteers who's hearts are still in this.

 

6 months ago I doubt there were so many who were considering leaving with No Deal as a serious option ;-) .....

 

Even the EU are considering it now >:-) ........

 

 

 

 

You have been telling us for three years that no deal is the way to go and its what people voted for and they were able to sign that petition any time within the last six months. You have to face facts Dave. Nobody wants no deal. Your petitions prove it.

 

 

Check back again in a month and compare numbers ;-) ..........

 

Although the EU may well have kicked us out by then with......NO DEAL B-) ......

 

 

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pelmetman - 2019-04-02 8:42 AM......…………..

Although the EU may well have kicked us out by then with......NO DEAL B-) ......

It will not be the EU who "kick us out", it will be the UK that kicks itself out - by proving itself incapable of arriving at a version of Brexit that it can accept.

 

As to the Revoke petition, there are a few things you are forgetting.

 

First, in the referendum, 33,551,983 (72.15% of the electorate) voted, leaving 12,949,258 (27.85% of the electorate) who, for whatever reason did not vote. No-one knows what their opinion was then, or what it is now, because they did not, and have not, said.

 

Second, 17,410,742 people (37.44% of the electorate, 51.89% of votes cast) voted leave, and 16,141,241 (34.71% of the electorate, 48.11% of votes cast) voted remain. That gives a majority of 1,269,501 (2.73% of the electorate, 3.78% of votes cast).

 

The number of petitioners signing the Revoke petition is currently 6,049,970 (13.01% of the electorate, 18>03% of votes cast in the referendum, and 37.75% of the leave vote.). It is still slowly rising. That number of petitioners is almost 5 times the actual majority of leave over remain. It was not a vote, but it is too large a number to be ignored, especially when the present voting intentions of the 12,949,258 referendum non-voters remains unknown.

 

While it would be silly to add the two together, but it is unreasonable and undemocratic to ignore the both the petitioners and the 16,141,241 who voted remain.

 

It only needs 634,752 (1.37% of the electorate) of the leavers to change their minds to eliminate the leave majority. That margin is why the Brexiters must take account of the remainers and, if they consider themselves democrats, should accept that a further referendum, based on whatever Brexit (or no Brexit) formula parliament can agree.

 

If that agreement cannot be found, the article 50 notification should be revoked, and we should then do what should have been done before the referendum was run: find out what it is about the EU that the Brexiters actually want to be rid of, who would be the winners and losers from that, and define a form of Brexit among ourselves that is the genuine least worst settlement. Then hold a second referendum on the basis of that form of Brexit versus remain, properly moderated, with all claims on both sides being checked and verified or corrected before the vote takes place.

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Brian Kirby - 2019-04-02 1:31 PM

 

If that agreement cannot be found, the article 50 notification should be revoked, and we should then do what should have been done before the referendum was run: find out what it is about the EU that the Brexiters actually want to be rid of, who would be the winners and losers from that, and define a form of Brexit among ourselves that is the genuine least worst settlement. Then hold a second referendum on the basis of that form of Brexit versus remain, properly moderated, with all claims on both sides being checked and verified or corrected before the vote takes place.

 

 

 

IF we revoke article 50 now ( resulting from a second referendum ) - stay in - and have a referendum every 5 years to see if we want to stay in.

 

( That might be a good idea in ALL the EU countries as it might concentrate the minds of EU leaders to listen to their electorates a bit more carefully )

 

:-(

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Brian Kirby - 2019-04-02 1:31 PM

 

pelmetman - 2019-04-02 8:42 AM......…………..

Although the EU may well have kicked us out by then with......NO DEAL B-) ......

It will not be the EU who "kick us out", it will be the UK that kicks itself out - by proving itself incapable of arriving at a version of Brexit that it can accept.

 

As to the Revoke petition, there are a few things you are forgetting.

 

First, in the referendum, 33,551,983 (72.15% of the electorate) voted, leaving 12,949,258 (27.85% of the electorate) who, for whatever reason did not vote. No-one knows what their opinion was then, or what it is now, because they did not, and have not, said.

 

Second, 17,410,742 people (37.44% of the electorate, 51.89% of votes cast) voted leave, and 16,141,241 (34.71% of the electorate, 48.11% of votes cast) voted remain. That gives a majority of 1,269,501 (2.73% of the electorate, 3.78% of votes cast).

 

The number of petitioners signing the Revoke petition is currently 6,049,970 (13.01% of the electorate, 18>03% of votes cast in the referendum, and 37.75% of the leave vote.). It is still slowly rising. That number of petitioners is almost 5 times the actual majority of leave over remain. It was not a vote, but it is too large a number to be ignored, especially when the present voting intentions of the 12,949,258 referendum non-voters remains unknown.

 

While it would be silly to add the two together, but it is unreasonable and undemocratic to ignore the both the petitioners and the 16,141,241 who voted remain.

 

It only needs 634,752 (1.37% of the electorate) of the leavers to change their minds to eliminate the leave majority. That margin is why the Brexiters must take account of the remainers and, if they consider themselves democrats, should accept that a further referendum, based on whatever Brexit (or no Brexit) formula parliament can agree.

 

If that agreement cannot be found, the article 50 notification should be revoked, and we should then do what should have been done before the referendum was run: find out what it is about the EU that the Brexiters actually want to be rid of, who would be the winners and losers from that, and define a form of Brexit among ourselves that is the genuine least worst settlement. Then hold a second referendum on the basis of that form of Brexit versus remain, properly moderated, with all claims on both sides being checked and verified or corrected before the vote takes place.

Well worth sending that to your MP Brian.

 

The figures certainly make interesting reading and put the entire matter into perspective, one i suspect some Brexiteers are all too aware of hence their reluctance for a peoples vote and anxiety to push through regardless of cost to country and economy.

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malc d - 2019-04-02 1:56 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2019-04-02 1:31 PM

 

If that agreement cannot be found, the article 50 notification should be revoked, and we should then do what should have been done before the referendum was run: find out what it is about the EU that the Brexiters actually want to be rid of, who would be the winners and losers from that, and define a form of Brexit among ourselves that is the genuine least worst settlement. Then hold a second referendum on the basis of that form of Brexit versus remain, properly moderated, with all claims on both sides being checked and verified or corrected before the vote takes place.

 

 

 

IF we revoke article 50 now ( resulting from a second referendum ) - stay in - and have a referendum every 5 years to see if we want to stay in.

 

( That might be a good idea in ALL the EU countries as it might concentrate the minds of EU leaders to listen to their electorates a bit more carefully )

 

:-(

Might help concentrate the minds of our home bred loonies too eh?! ;-)

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Guest pelmetman
Brian Kirby - 2019-04-02 1:31 PM

 

pelmetman - 2019-04-02 8:42 AM......…………..

Although the EU may well have kicked us out by then with......NO DEAL B-) ......

It will not be the EU who "kick us out", it will be the UK that kicks itself out - by proving itself incapable of arriving at a version of Brexit that it can accept.

 

 

I'm not bothered who's fault it is ;-) ..............

 

I'll happily accept a No Deal Brexit by any means B-) .......

 

 

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Bulletguy - 2019-04-02 2:35 PM

 

malc d - 2019-04-02 1:56 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2019-04-02 1:31 PM

 

If that agreement cannot be found, the article 50 notification should be revoked, and we should then do what should have been done before the referendum was run: find out what it is about the EU that the Brexiters actually want to be rid of, who would be the winners and losers from that, and define a form of Brexit among ourselves that is the genuine least worst settlement. Then hold a second referendum on the basis of that form of Brexit versus remain, properly moderated, with all claims on both sides being checked and verified or corrected before the vote takes place.

 

 

 

IF we revoke article 50 now ( resulting from a second referendum ) - stay in - and have a referendum every 5 years to see if we want to stay in.

 

( That might be a good idea in ALL the EU countries as it might concentrate the minds of EU leaders to listen to their electorates a bit more carefully )

 

:-(

Might help concentrate the minds of our home bred loonies too eh?! ;-)

 

 

Not if people still keep calling them loonies it won't.

 

If you want to change someones mind it's best not to start by calling them stupid - even if you think they are.

( At the moment each side thinks the other side are stupid - and it hasn't worked out too well so far ).

 

:-(

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