Rimor Katamarano 1 v's Chausson Flash 03

[Ade]

Hi, I'm looking to but my first motorhome and have seen 2 advertised at the same price/milage - £23,500.00 (10,000 miles). I like the fact they both have bunk beds for the 2 kids. I will be towing a small boat.

 

Any advantage over each other? also should i just spend the extra and go for a new one which seem to sell at £27k .

 

Thanks in advance.

[Mel B]

You need to check what the specifications are of the vehicles, what the engine size is especially seeing as you intend to tow, what the quality of the build is like, what accessories you get etc.

 

Before you go anywhere near either of them make a list of what you want to have in your motorhome, your "must haves", "would likes" and "don't need", that way at least it will make you think about things clearly when you do see the vans.

 

For towing you need at least a 2.2 engine, preferably bigger but I suspect they won't have that, check to make sure that you can ge a tow bar fitted as well, not all vans can have one due to the placement of water tanks etc.

 

We've got a Rimor Sailer which is a little bit more up the 'class' ladder than the Katamarano from what I can tell but that's not to mean that the Katamarano isn't a good van, just like Swift make various levels of their vans, with upgrade specs etc, but the basic structure and fittings tend to be the same. Before our Rimor we had a Rapido which is a very good quality make so the Rimor had a tough act to follow and it has done, yet the doors are not as solid as the Rapido but they are very good and not flimsy pieces of hardboard like some makers' vans, some of which are supposedly from luxury van manufacturers!

 

As for the Chaussons generally, we found the finish on them to be a bit slap dash on occasions but whether that was just due to them rushing to get show models ready I don't know.

 

Make sure you have a really good rummage round both vans if you decide to go and have a shuftie, check how well the doors shut, if there is any sign of wear and tear on handles, hinges etc and where they attach to the cupboards, whether the cupboards and furniture generally is still well screwed together. This will tell you whether a van is likely to stand the test of time whilst you own it or whether it is likely to drop to pieces in a couple of years.

 

Don't rush to buy the first thing you see, keep your head and be prepared to walk away, even if it's only to get yourself away from temptation for an hour to let you think clearly.

 

Good luck with your quest! B-)

[Brian Kirby]

Watch Rimor's payloads!  They're very coy!

[Mel B]

Brian, what have you got against Rimors? Ours has a good payload for our needs and it was clearly displayed in the garage of the van for us to see which is more than I can say for much of the opposition. It may not display the payloads on the website etc but I'd much rather have to check with the manufacturer or dealers and get it in writing from them, rather than trust a brochure or such like.

 

How many of the other makes of motorhomes that publish their payload figures are actually accurate I wonder? Every brochure has a disclaimer to say that they are not responsible for the content, or some such worded statement, so even if the figures were published and then you found they were wrong, you would be hard pushed to be able to do anything about it. I'm not saying that the absence of advertising of Rimor payloads is a good thing, just that it's not the end of the world if you have to find out the true figures for yourself so at least you know it is accurate. :-S

[Brian Kirby]

Mel, don't worry, it's a forum!  I don't actually have anything against Rimor vans.

I merely state, as a matter of fact, that Rimor don't/won't declare the MIROs of their vans.  If they did, they'd enable potential buyers to decide, without wasting their and dealer's time and money on pointless journeys to dealers, instead of being able to find out whether, on paper, a van is potentially suitable for them or not.  There is even a handy EC directive on how to do this, detailing what is to be taken into account, and every other reputable manufacturer seems to manage it!  For example, Rapido do this.

Can you imagine the problem we'd all face if the only way we could check the payload of a van, was to drive to the nearest dealership to see if it was written inside?  Naturally, there is a margin for variation on all such declared weights, there has to be for purely practical reasons.  Even if Rimor put every van they make individually over a weighbridge, there would still be a margin on stated weights, as there will be on those quoted inside your garage.  Seasonal variations in moisture content of timber, and variations between weighbridges, to name but two, would ensure they'd have to leave themselves a margin.  The only way to be really certain is to weigh your own van after you get it.  Bit tough though, if you then discover you have no payload!

However, making due allowance for that margin, it is still very useful to be able to compare payloads between otherwise similar vans, and to be able to take account of the weights of options and accessories, which reduce that payload.

As a company, Rimor do not facilitate this, leading to some very misleading claims being made by dealers and magazine testers (who presumably get their information from dealers).  I do not think this serves well the interests of potential customers, and it irritates me no end, and that is my gripe with Rimor the company!  End.

[messerschmitt owner]

I've a rimor too - and never felt the need to ask the payload - but, hey, it's a 4.6tonner and the payload is in excess of a ton. I didn't need to go to the dealer to work that one out! Common sense told me that the miro was less than 3.6 tonnes and that I would never be able to fill it to its capacity (unless I turned it into a getaway vehicle for the Italian Job).

 

Many other manufacturers don't list their payloads, or their number of belted seats, lots of brochures (and I have almost every one for every model for sale in the UK at present) don't list simple things like number of hobs, whether there is an oven, whether there is a spare wheel, or a seperate shower, or what type of heating, etc.

 

I'd always ask for payload from the dealer anyway and and am more disapointed when manufacturers list payloads for 4 berth vans at allowable weights like 250kg (when each adult alone weighs 75kg) or have six berths but only two forward facing seats (the cab ones!).

 

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

messerschmitt owner - 2007-05-04 10:20 PM I've a rimor too - and never felt the need to ask the payload - but, hey, it's a 4.6tonner and the payload is in excess of a ton. I didn't need to go to the dealer to work that one out! Common sense told me that the miro was less than 3.6 tonnes and that I would never be able to fill it to its capacity (unless I turned it into a getaway vehicle for the Italian Job). Many other manufacturers don't list their payloads, or their number of belted seats, lots of brochures (and I have almost every one for every model for sale in the UK at present) don't list simple things like number of hobs, whether there is an oven, whether there is a spare wheel, or a seperate shower, or what type of heating, etc. I'd always ask for payload from the dealer anyway and and am more disapointed when manufacturers list payloads for 4 berth vans at allowable weights like 250kg (when each adult alone weighs 75kg) or have six berths but only two forward facing seats (the cab ones!).

But you could be overloading the front axle, Campbell.  Agreed the rear probably has sufficient margin, since I suspect that is where most of the payload lies.

I wasn't intending to imply Rimor were alone in this, just that, as they were under consideration, it was a point to watch.  I must say the brochures I have looked at do list, or illustrate, the things you lament, though one does sometimes have to ask for the supplementary technical brochure as well as the pretty pictures one.  Rapido, Burstner, Chausson, Challenger, Hymer, Dethleffs, Hobby, Adria and Knaus, all give MIRO to EN1646-2, which includes driver (75Kg); 90% fuel, water and gas, plus essential tools, and all state MAM.  The MIRO should also include a hook up cable and spare wheel/repair kit, but some are a bit coy about that.  There are minor variations, due to "interpretation" of the EN, but one can reasonably read between the lines to get to what is needed.  Most of these supplements also give the additional weight of standard, factory fit, options and accessories.

My own experience of dealer's answers on payload has not, to date, been encouraging.  I agree about silly payloads in relationship to numbers of seats, but that is precisely why I criticise those makers who don't make the payloads clear. 

Apart from the construction techniques used, for example whether the furniture is lightweight ply, ordinary ply, chipboard or mdf, the main problem with payload is the buyer's desire for a "family" van, capable of taking at least driver + 3, which implies a fairly large van, plus his tendency to have a licence that restricts him to 3,500Kg vehicles. 

If the brochure is a bit shy in stating payload, the buyer is liable to be lulled into buying a van he then can't use properly.  "Caveat emptor" is all very well, but some makers do make it difficult for the "emptor" to exercise the desirable "caveat".  I do feel for those poor souls, who sink a great wodge of their hard earned into a van, find out it is near enough useless, and then that it will cost them another great wodge to change it.

[messerschmitt owner]

Brian

 

I doubt my front axle weight is ever likely to be over the limit - I have no accessories fitted as I did not desire any of them and we always load sensibly (comes from having relatives with HGVs).

 

The likely owners who don't have the C1 category on their licence is still a low number as most motorhome owners I find are old enough to have passed a test at a time when they qualified to drive all sorts of exciting vehicles. Me, I'm still in my thirties but have C1 and many other useful categories as I passed my test in the 1980s.

 

Mind you, I do think that people who do buy motorhomes shouldn't do it lightly - after all, it is likely to be the second most expensive purchase of their lives after their house and the magazines and this forum do regularly mention payloads and on a regular basis axle wights.

 

Me, I played around with the load space in the garage and added some panelling to contain the load on the upper part of the load bay so that my garage load was mainly directly behind the axle rather than at the very rear of the vehicle. I didn't know why Rimor didn't panel this area off to stop goods falling down into the garage proper!

 

However, despite the lack of payload figures, and my non appearance on a weighbridge, I doubt the three os us, the dog, and our chattels take up either the axle weight or the payload of our van (or that I am likely to exceed either). Even the two ton towing allowance is well above what I am ever likely to need.

 

Many people buy vans without any thought of how they will be used and this affects them more than the payload and axle weights (which they often do not realise about). I thought long and hard about spending my £42500 and bought the best van I have owned!

 

Campbell

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks, Campbell, for the clarifications, and the warnings.  You've amply illustrated the points I was trying to get across. 

There seem to be quite a few newcomers to motorhoming, and to this forum, who may not be aware of the pitfalls of buying.  My experience is that dealers in general do not act as consultants to their prospective purchasers, providing proper advice on the pros, cons and limitations of this, or that, van.  In any case, too few of their staff seem to have anything to do with motorhomes, apart from selling them, so are totally unqualified to do this!

The buying public are encouraged to believe buying their first motorhome will be no more complicated than buying a car or a washing machine.  The truth, as we all sooner or later learn, is otherwise.

One doesn't want to put people off, just to flag up some of the dangers awaiting the unwary.  The question of driving licence categories being but one.  You are quite right about the number of motorhomers who currently hold C1 licences.  However, as we go forward that number will diminish, because a lot of us will fail to maintain our "grandfather rights", either due to ill health, or ignorance of the need to do so. 

The 3,500Kg MAM motorhome is still the commonest around, and I think likely to remain so.  Yours represents the exception.  For many others, however, the desire to buy what looks attractively spacious inside, without sufficient regard for the sheer mass of clutter we try to carry, lulled by dealers stories about how easy they are to drive (true!), will get them vans that just can't legally carry what they want to take.  Only then, it seems, do they come to realise they've made a horribly expensive mistake!  Since no-one else shows interest, it seems to fall to us on here to try to set them off on the right road.

[flicka]

Please excuse going off tread a bit, but I fully agree with Brian's comments.

 

The problem is that it is not in the salesman's interest to speculate on the type of use a prospective buyer will put the van to. So to ensure he doesn't get any comeback on "fit for purpose" he keeps his mouth shut.

 

Despite the No. of posts regarding payload on this and other forums, you only have to see the No. of new users registering to speculate at the No. of Buyers looking at the forums is a very low percentage in comparison to the No. of Motorhomes purchased annually.

As is the norm in automotive sales, many 2nd hand Motorhomes do not come with manufacturers handbooks and new buyers fall into the trap of being blissfully unaware, until something happens.

 

Flicka