Mike Parke Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 If Sir Winston Churchill. David Lloyd-George, Sir William Pitt and Oliver Cromwell came back to life what do you think they would have to say about the state of our society and culture as it is today?? I'll say nothing at this time but look forward to seeing your views (if any) on Saturday when I return to work. Thanks for your time, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 a new boy band perhaps, B-) sorry try not to do serious :-> :-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I think one of the biggest things that would leap out at them, in English society anyway, is how children are over-indulged and over-empowered at an age where they don’t have the social skills to responsibly handle the power foisted upon them. Hence programs like ‘Supernanny’ (though I can never bear to watch it) and the ever increasing uncomfortable feeling that adolescents really do control the streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Our caravan is on a seasonal pitch in Dorset and the other weekend we were chatting to a couple who had been on site for several months who use their caravan to come back to the UK to see friends relatives as they now live in France. He commented that you can always tell the English families when they shop in the supermarkets in France. They are the ones whose children are badly behaved and kicking up all the fuss. I think my generation has a lot to answer for in allowing the Politically Correct Numpties the power to tell children that they can do no wrong, that they will never fail at anything and that they can do what they like. How many times have we heard the stupidity of some teacher spouting forth that "Competitive games" are wrong because some poor kiddy could be scarred for life because they lost the egg and spoon race? I think the people listed would just shake their heads in sadness and despair at a lost opportunity and a lost generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 spot on guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 They might have loads to say, but as they're not in a boyband, been in Hollyoaks, played football, been on Big Brother or Sh***ed Jordan, would anybody listen, or would anybody print/broadcast what they said! Or even sadder, would anybody now who they were! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I think they would be disappointed to see the media running the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 They might think that the freedom of speech and freedom from fear and hunger that we all now enjoy was worth the wait? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Except for those in Burma, Saudi Arabia, most of Africa, Pakistan, New Orleans, Iran, Afganistan, Quantanamo Bay, Russia, Anyone protesting against the Iraq war in the UK, Malaya, Brazilian street kids, Gaza, West Bank, China, Tibet, North Korea, Jean Charles de Menezes and several million others without a voice, food and clean drinking water (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Tracker, can I assume that post was somewhat 'tongue in cheek'? Freedom of speech? In this country.........hardly. The PC brigade have put a stop to that. Freedom from fear? Not many city streets are safe to walk after dark, or in some cases in daylight. I'm afraid that we've seen 'freedom' gradually eroded over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Vic - 2007-10-19 7:20 PM Tracker, can I assume that post was somewhat 'tongue in cheek'? Freedom of speech? In this country.........hardly. The PC brigade have put a stop to that. Freedom from fear? Not many city streets are safe to walk after dark, or in some cases in daylight. I'm afraid that we've seen 'freedom' gradually eroded over the years. Er no not tongue in cheek! The fact that anyone can say speak as you just did without fear of losing their livelihood, their family being beaten, their home being trashed and themselves being incarcerated without trial bears me out I think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 but come the ID cards and DNA database .. .. .. .. .. B-) assuming they can get 'em to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 But whatever happens we can still complain about it without fear! It might not do any good but that is a different subject if anyone cares to start a new thread? The inalienable right to speak freely (without being racially or violently provocative) freedom.is still the cornerstone of our country's political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Tracker, in honesty here, I really don't wish to provoke any ill feeling or argument. Yes, you are quite right in your thoughts that we certainly have much more freedom than many in other countries. But, I still stand by my comment that our freedom in this country is without doubt being gradually taken away. Go and stand on a soapbox on Hyde Park Corner....a freedom that was ours some years ago. Vent your feelings against any group of people who may offend you, and see what happens. Freedom of speech should allow an indivdual to say what he/she likes without fear of recrimination, but that right isn't there any more. Things that have been part of our heritage for centuries are being banned. Bonfires on November 5th are not going to be allowed in some areas of the country this year because some councillors feel that it may damage the fragile ozone layer and lead to an increase in global warming. Christmas, per se, has already been banned in many areas for fear of causing upset to certain groups. Please believe me when I say that I have no racist, religeous or sexist axe to grind, and have no problems living in a cosmopolitan society, but I am fed up with being told what I can or cannot say. This Forum has a jokes section. You can bet your bottom dollar that the vast majority of those jokes will offend somebody. Try telling some of those jokes in the workplace for example, and your neck will soon be on the block. OK, the chances of me being beaten to death by the police because of my views are slim, but, the chances of being incarcerated because of opinions are growing. I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories but we all know that the technology is in place to monitor our every move. Innocent or not we are all under scrutiny. Freedom? I don't think so. No offence intended Tracker, just my views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 You will never ever provoke any ill feeling with me Vic by telling it as you see it. I only get venomous when provoked by personal insults and you, my friend, thank heaven, show no signs of doing that. So keep it coming! I hear what you say and to a point you are right - our freedoms are being eroded away by the crazy PC brigade, but we still have enormous freedoms compared to many countries. I never did say that we have right to say whatever we want regardless of the feelings of others and just because we may disagree it does not give anyone the right to insult and attack. No one has the right to publicly vent their feelings against others with whom they disagree if it causes offence. Why should any one person's views be more worthy than any one else's - as long as the views are put in a non aggressive fashion we are all free to make our points? Every one does however have the right to discuss their grievances with those with whom disagree and try to reach an amicable settlement. That surely is the British way? I too am more than brassed off with the erosion of Britishness as you say like Christmas, Guy Fawkes, etc but this has more to do with the loony PC element hat freedom of speech surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Getting back to the original question. Churchill will be going around shaking all the hands of Polish telling them 'see I said we would get your freedom back eventualy' Lloyd-George would be wondering what all the fuss about cash for honours was about, then he would be chatting up all our female members. Cromwell will be aplauding Gordon when he calls for election in 18months time. Pitt? I'll have to think that one over, 35+years since I did 'O' level history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I think it's very important to consider other peoples feelings and sensitivities. A lot of the racist, misogynist jokes that have been condemned were made from a position of power. Abuse of 'power' should always be condemned. However, western europe cultures are the result of many years of struggle, the 'Enlightenment' period of free thinkers scientists gave us a foundation of free speech - thought. Our Culture encourages and allows face to face communication and contact, if this is done responsibly then it can be obvious when the conversation becomes insulting or hurtful and apologies made as appropriate. Back OT - not convinced that the names quoted would necessarily approve of these freedoms being available to all and sundry - plebs and all. :-> :-> B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 As I say Tracker, by 'venting' or 'airing' ones feelings and thoughts in any sort of public forum will obviously cause offence to some. Be it logical argument or plain attacking of others views, it seems to matter not. Opinions seem to be outlawed in today's society for fear of offence. Argument and views should always be part of any society that declares itself to be free, no matter how distasteful or offensive. That is freedom of speech. Right or wrong, it should not matter. Those who are offended then have the right to reply. Freedom, as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 If you want an idea of just how much of our freedoms have been eroded, get hold of a new video by Chris Atkins - "Taking Liberties" It chronicles how freedoms we have taken for granted have been steadily eroded under Blair. In fact it started with Thatcher but has accelerated staggeringly in the last 10 years. Our Right to Privacy To Protest Not to be detained without Trial The principal of habeas corpus And the ban on Torture have all taken one heck of a bashing under Blair. As for ID cards????????????????? Why not ask yourself the question would another 9/11 be prevented seeing as all those terrorists that boarded those planes had valid passports. To be fair - I have no problem with ID cards - those I work with in Europe have them and if anything they seem to make life easier. But what does worry me is the way this Government want to place personal info on them. That to me is a recipe for disaster especially as the Computer used to hold all the info will probably be in India and built to the lowest cost tender and open to all sorts of abuse. How they can do it AND take account of the Data Protection Act should be a laugh to watch! If enough people pay the £10 and keep asking for print outs of their info stored and the whole thing will just fall over. Anyone who thinks we still live in the Free Country fought for by our parents is sadly mistaken. Have a look at the DVD "Taking Liberties" - as I say - it will make you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 So where else in the world of today would be a better place to live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I'm with CliveH on the subject of I.D. cards. A lot of personal data, all in one place, is a recipe for disaster, not only because of the general lack of competence in some government departments, but also a field -day for 'hackers'. Plus the personal problems which would arise from card theft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Tracker - 2007-10-20 10:36 AM So where else in the world of today would be a better place to live? not in any order - but Netherlands - Luxembourg - lots of France - Scandinavia [but I'd need to win the lottery BIGTIME} - New Zealand ??? I'd include Oz but there are too many things that can kill you out there :-> :-> :-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parke Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 Gosh! I never expected such a response! I am going 'light hearted'on this one. Tongue firmly in cheek I offer the following: W.S.C.: '"Men will never say 'this was their finest hour!' D.L-G. 'Maybe the Kaiser was right' W. P. ' I can see why Queen Victoria told Gladstone she was not amused!' O.C. 'Right cavalier lot we have got here now!!' Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 nicely done Mike Hope you've had a good hard working session :-> :-> [i haven't >:-) >:-) ] B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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