malc d Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Does anyone know when it is estimated that we will reach the sunlit uplands ? :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 When we get Independence from Westminster and the EU Membership we voted for :-D As for England I see their current Social and Economic crisis continuing for many more years :-( Everyone can see Brexits causing it, but most daren't mention it for fear of being shouted down by the nasty mob. >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Sunlit uplands? All weather forecasts, including those of the Daily Mail, predict a very rainy autumn and a cold winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted September 27, 2021 Author Share Posted September 27, 2021 mtravel - 2021-09-27 10:22 AM Sunlit uplands? All weather forecasts, including those of the Daily Mail, predict a very rainy autumn and a cold winter. The British sunlit uplands are being organised by our leader - but I've not heard any forecasts lately, about when they will arrive. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 I'll go with JRM's guess. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jacob-rees-mogg-economy-brexit_uk_5b54e3b5e4b0de86f48e3566 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 My Sunlit uplands are already here B-) ......... But then again I'm not a misery guts LOSER who is only happy when I'm moaning (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 colin - 2021-09-27 1:34 PM I'll go with JRM's guess. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jacob-rees-mogg-economy-brexit_uk_5b54e3b5e4b0de86f48e3566 Geez, fifty years ... Enough to get rid of a German monarchy, adopt a constitution in place of the Magna Carta and finally become UR (United Republics). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Due to a huge amount of good fortune with inflation and occupational pensions working very well in my favour, to which I added a lot of effort to maximise it all to my advantage my sunlit uplands too are nicely all around me. But so too is unrest, laziness, stupidity, naivity, incompetence and all manner of other conditions installed by generations of self serving and inept politicians - but far enough away not be an issue for me. I doubt the nation will ever again enjoy the prosperity borne of common sense, a work ethic, innovation that was encouraged and rewarded, self discipline and the willingness and common sense to get off their backsides and deal with any situation when it turns sour - which it did several times over the years - rather than blaming everyone else. This country has a great future behind it - but I am OK and that is what counts - shame others failed to make the effort to be in a similar situation but that's life I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 malc d - 2021-09-27 7:58 AM Does anyone know when it is estimated that we will reach the sunlit uplands ? :-| Brexiters will all tell you they're already basking in them. It's their 'comfort blanket'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Here you go Malc.....just found an advert for them. Reduced cost of living, pensions, 800,000 houses, plus pure food and milk. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Tracker - 2021-09-27 4:13 PM Due to a huge amount of good fortune with inflation and occupational pensions working very well in my favour, to which I added .. screwing the country with Brexit and pulling up the ladder behind you, leaving the next generation to pay off all your Government's debts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 John52 - 2021-09-27 9:28 PM Tracker - 2021-09-27 4:13 PM Due to a huge amount of good fortune with inflation and occupational pensions working very well in my favour, to which I added .. screwing the country with Brexit and pulling up the ladder behind you, leaving the next generation to pay off all your Government's debts So says the bloke who wants to kick his English meal ticket ladder away whilst still in his hole 8-) .......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 Tracker - 2021-09-27 4:13 PM Due to a huge amount of good fortune with inflation and occupational pensions working very well in my favour, to which I added a lot of effort to maximise it all to my advantage my sunlit uplands too are nicely all around me. But so too is unrest, laziness, stupidity, naivity, incompetence and all manner of other conditions installed by generations of self serving and inept politicians - but far enough away not be an issue for me. I doubt the nation will ever again enjoy the prosperity borne of common sense, a work ethic, innovation that was encouraged and rewarded, self discipline and the willingness and common sense to get off their backsides and deal with any situation when it turns sour - which it did several times over the years - rather than blaming everyone else. This country has a great future behind it - but I am OK and that is what counts - shame others failed to make the effort to be in a similar situation but that's life I guess? Well aren't you (and I) the lucky ones benefitting from occupational pensions, but for most people today they are not a opinion, even those that do remain in the public sector are very different beasts from what we enjoyed. And here is a example of one being watered down in a once nationalised industry https://waterbriefing.org/home/company-news/item/11194-northumbrian-water-final-salary-pension-scheme-%E2%80%9Cno-longer-sustainable%E2%80%9D You'll note that at the time of this announcement NWL was owned, and indeed is still owned by a Chinese conglomerate, who exercised the usual borrow against the asset from a number member of the group so lots of interest is due and there are less taxable profits in the UK and not enough for descent wages and pension contributions, but still enough for dividends. You will also note the unions, you know the same ones you seek to blame for the demise of British industry were trying to fight against the changes, but due to changes in trade union legislation were fairly powerless to act. Let's address the change in income in the time since you were working. What was the value of your first home as a ratio of your salary? That too has a impact on the ability of current workers to save into a pension scheme - if there is one available. The government set up auto enrolment into Stakeholder Pension scheme, any idea what the company and employee contributions are? How does that compare to your occupational pension even before the AVCs? And you seem to have a very different perspective of the current benefits system to the reality, the level currently is the lowest in the last forty years and hasn't been increased since austerity cuts started, yet strangely thanks to the pension triple lock state pensioners have seen increases. To claim job seekers allowance people have to show they have been looking for work, miss a appointment at the Job Centre and your benefits are stopped for a month, it doesn't matter that you have to walk six miles in and six miles home because there are no buses, you have to attend in person. Get a job and they let you go after a year, you can't claim benefits for five weeks, you have to live on your "savings". There is a reason why there are more foodbanks in this country than McDonald's. More than half the people claiming Universal Credit are actually in work, just not earning enough to live on. The state is subsidising the companies who are paying out dividends but can't pay people enough to live on. We are the lucky generation, if you want to see an end to the "unrest" then start looking at the real cause of poverty, can you survive on £59 a week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-28 8:25 AM John52 - 2021-09-27 9:28 PM Tracker - 2021-09-27 4:13 PM Due to a huge amount of good fortune with inflation and occupational pensions working very well in my favour, to which I added .. screwing the country with Brexit and pulling up the ladder behind you, leaving the next generation to pay off all your Government's debts So says the bloke who wants to kick his English meal ticket ladder away whilst still in his hole 8-) .......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... Right now a ladder up to the EU would be more use Scotland is the only country in the UK that can produce its own power, water food and fuel with enough left over to export. So I would rather work and export to the EU like we voted for and used to be able to do. And get paid in Euros instead of Brexit crash pounds. How much longer can Johnson keep borrowing and printing money to buy our votes and maintain his empire at your expense? Have you realised who the LOSER is yet *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-28 9:25 AM Tracker - 2021-09-27 4:13 PM Due to a huge amount of good fortune with inflation and occupational pensions working very well in my favour, to which I added a lot of effort to maximise it all to my advantage my sunlit uplands too are nicely all around me. But so too is unrest, laziness, stupidity, naivity, incompetence and all manner of other conditions installed by generations of self serving and inept politicians - but far enough away not be an issue for me. I doubt the nation will ever again enjoy the prosperity borne of common sense, a work ethic, innovation that was encouraged and rewarded, self discipline and the willingness and common sense to get off their backsides and deal with any situation when it turns sour - which it did several times over the years - rather than blaming everyone else. This country has a great future behind it - but I am OK and that is what counts - shame others failed to make the effort to be in a similar situation but that's life I guess? Well aren't you (and I) the lucky ones benefitting from occupational pensions, but for most people today they are not a opinion, even those that do remain in the public sector are very different beasts from what we enjoyed. And here is a example of one being watered down in a once nationalised industry https://waterbriefing.org/home/company-news/item/11194-northumbrian-water-final-salary-pension-scheme-%E2%80%9Cno-longer-sustainable%E2%80%9D You'll note that at the time of this announcement NWL was owned, and indeed is still owned by a Chinese conglomerate, who exercised the usual borrow against the asset from a number member of the group so lots of interest is due and there are less taxable profits in the UK and not enough for descent wages and pension contributions, but still enough for dividends. You will also note the unions, you know the same ones you seek to blame for the demise of British industry were trying to fight against the changes, but due to changes in trade union legislation were fairly powerless to act. Let's address the change in income in the time since you were working. What was the value of your first home as a ratio of your salary? That too has a impact on the ability of current workers to save into a pension scheme - if there is one available. The government set up auto enrolment into Stakeholder Pension scheme, any idea what the company and employee contributions are? How does that compare to your occupational pension even before the AVCs? And you seem to have a very different perspective of the current benefits system to the reality, the level currently is the lowest in the last forty years and hasn't been increased since austerity cuts started, yet strangely thanks to the pension triple lock state pensioners have seen increases. To claim job seekers allowance people have to show they have been looking for work, miss a appointment at the Job Centre and your benefits are stopped for a month, it doesn't matter that you have to walk six miles in and six miles home because there are no buses, you have to attend in person. Get a job and they let you go after a year, you can't claim benefits for five weeks, you have to live on your "savings". There is a reason why there are more foodbanks in this country than McDonald's. More than half the people claiming Universal Credit are actually in work, just not earning enough to live on. The state is subsidising the companies who are paying out dividends but can't pay people enough to live on. We are the lucky generation, if you want to see an end to the "unrest" then start looking at the real cause of poverty, can you survive on £59 a week? Well said Survive on £59 a week when the housing benefit doesn't cover the rent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 Plus the lucrative unskilled jobs like selling pensions are not available now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 colin - 2021-09-27 12:34 PM I'll go with JRM's guess. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jacob-rees-mogg-economy-brexit_uk_5b54e3b5e4b0de86f48e3566 So we won't know until he is not around to blame *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 Tracker - 2021-09-27 4:13 PM But so too is unrest, laziness, stupidity, naivity, incompetence You need to realise that the days when even an unqualified person with little understanding of finance could get a job like mis-selling pensions that generated enough commission to buy a house in a couple of years have gone. What opportunities are there now? We have graduates spending over half their income renting a crummy flat. Trying to save up what little they can spare with inflation 40 times the interest rate. Whats their chance of getting on the housing ladder without wealthy parents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 Tracker - 2021-09-27 4:13 PM Due to a huge amount of good fortune with inflation and occupational pensions working very well in my favour, to which I added a lot of effort to maximise it all to my advantage my sunlit uplands too are nicely all around me. But so too is unrest, laziness, stupidity, naivety, incompetence and all manner of other conditions installed by generations of self serving and inept politicians - but far enough away not be an issue for me. I doubt the nation will ever again enjoy the prosperity borne of common sense, a work ethic, innovation that was encouraged and rewarded, self discipline and the willingness and common sense to get off their backsides and deal with any situation when it turns sour - which it did several times over the years - rather than blaming everyone else. This country has a great future behind it - but I am OK and that is what counts - shame others failed to make the effort to be in a similar situation but that's life I guess? Did you read this before you posted it Rich, because it seems somewhat contradictory to me? At first you acknowledge the role sheer luck played in your circumstances, but then go on to claim the credit for that luck. You then blame those who missed out on the good luck for their own misfortune, calling them lazy, stupid, incompetent, etc. as though they had perversely and deliberately sought out those characteristics with the intention to become the losers. This, you attribute to generations of self-serving politicians, as though there has been some grand conspiracy to create our present circumstances. Forgive me, but the lazy, stupid, and incompetent have always been with us in approximately constant proportion to the industrious, clever and competent. I suspect that many of those you so characterise are just as much the victims of luck as you are, except that the paths they chose to take have not proved what they at first hoped. It is a little difficult to plan out the next 40 years with certainty when leaving school with little understanding of what life may throw at one. I suspect most of us on here have suffered the odd setback during our working lives, and that we merely represent those who landed on our feet rather than our heads. It always helps to have chosen one's parents with great care, and it undoubtedly helps ones "feel good factor" to see those who chose their parents less well as deserving of their self-imposed fate, but that self-congratulatory mindset is at odds with the one that speaks of luck. Luck is two sided: we represent, in varying degree, the lucky: those you demean the unlucky. After all, some of the lucky are also lazy, stupid, and incompetent while others are industrious, clever and competent, and some of the unlucky are mean, grasping, b'stards, while others are generous, provident, model citizens. The only real difference is that little slice of luck that came from having been in the right place, with sufficient wit and opportunity, at the right time. Life is not a meritocracy in which everyone miraculously ends up with what they deserve. It is, when all is said and done, no more than a game of chance with both deserving and undeserving players in which the deserving to not all emerge victorious and the undeserving in penury. We both worked for what we have, we both had to overcome setbacks, and ultimately, we were both lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 Thats what I wanted to say Brian But you put it better than me :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted September 29, 2021 Author Share Posted September 29, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-09-29 9:42 AM Tracker - 2021-09-27 4:13 PM Due to a huge amount of good fortune with inflation and occupational pensions working very well in my favour, to which I added a lot of effort to maximise it all to my advantage my sunlit uplands too are nicely all around me. But so too is unrest, laziness, stupidity, naivety, incompetence and all manner of other conditions installed by generations of self serving and inept politicians - but far enough away not be an issue for me. I doubt the nation will ever again enjoy the prosperity borne of common sense, a work ethic, innovation that was encouraged and rewarded, self discipline and the willingness and common sense to get off their backsides and deal with any situation when it turns sour - which it did several times over the years - rather than blaming everyone else. This country has a great future behind it - but I am OK and that is what counts - shame others failed to make the effort to be in a similar situation but that's life I guess? It always helps to have chosen one's parents with great care, ...................................... The only real difference is that little slice of luck that came from having been in the right place, with sufficient wit and opportunity, at the right time. Quite true Brian. In addition to choosing your parents carefully, it's also essential that you are born in the right country, at the right time. Just imagine the relief of parents whose children were born just after the end of WW1 - and where so many of those children ended up, 20 years later. The people I find most irritating are the ones who have been fortunate, who believe that if anyone was less fortunate than themselves, it was their own fault. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-09-29 9:42 AM Tracker - 2021-09-27 4:13 PM Due to a huge amount of good fortune with inflation and occupational pensions working very well in my favour, to which I added a lot of effort to maximise it all to my advantage my sunlit uplands too are nicely all around me. But so too is unrest, laziness, stupidity, naivety, incompetence and all manner of other conditions installed by generations of self serving and inept politicians - but far enough away not be an issue for me. I doubt the nation will ever again enjoy the prosperity borne of common sense, a work ethic, innovation that was encouraged and rewarded, self discipline and the willingness and common sense to get off their backsides and deal with any situation when it turns sour - which it did several times over the years - rather than blaming everyone else. This country has a great future behind it - but I am OK and that is what counts - shame others failed to make the effort to be in a similar situation but that's life I guess? Did you read this before you posted it Rich, because it seems somewhat contradictory to me? At first you acknowledge the role sheer luck played in your circumstances, but then go on to claim the credit for that luck. You then blame those who missed out on the good luck for their own misfortune, calling them lazy, stupid, incompetent, etc. as though they had perversely and deliberately sought out those characteristics with the intention to become the losers. This, you attribute to generations of self-serving politicians, as though there has been some grand conspiracy to create our present circumstances. Forgive me, but the lazy, stupid, and incompetent have always been with us in approximately constant proportion to the industrious, clever and competent. I suspect that many of those you so characterise are just as much the victims of luck as you are, except that the paths they chose to take have not proved what they at first hoped. It is a little difficult to plan out the next 40 years with certainty when leaving school with little understanding of what life may throw at one. I suspect most of us on here have suffered the odd setback during our working lives, and that we merely represent those who landed on our feet rather than our heads. It always helps to have chosen one's parents with great care, and it undoubtedly helps ones "feel good factor" to see those who chose their parents less well as deserving of their self-imposed fate, but that self-congratulatory mindset is at odds with the one that speaks of luck. Luck is two sided: we represent, in varying degree, the lucky: those you demean the unlucky. After all, some of the lucky are also lazy, stupid, and incompetent while others are industrious, clever and competent, and some of the unlucky are mean, grasping, b'stards, while others are generous, provident, model citizens. The only real difference is that little slice of luck that came from having been in the right place, with sufficient wit and opportunity, at the right time. Life is not a meritocracy in which everyone miraculously ends up with what they deserve. It is, when all is said and done, no more than a game of chance with both deserving and undeserving players in which the deserving to not all emerge victorious and the undeserving in penury. We both worked for what we have, we both had to overcome setbacks, and ultimately, we were both lucky. Fair enough Brian, I won't argue with most of that! I don't see my own rendition as contradictory at all, life is contradictory - the good, the bad, the ugly and the wonderful happens to us all in varying degrees and the best we can do is recognise and work to enhance the good to make it even better and work to overcome the obstacles. Sure, my parents can take some of the credit for the way I was brought up to think and act but that ethic seems to be largely missing these days with so many people seeming to blame everyone else for their misfortune, seek the road of least resistance, and claim 'mental health' as their reason to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 I think the moaners have been given a louder voice by "social media". It's a bit like the fuel shortage. It was/is inevitable that people would exchange info on SM about any garage that had run out of the required fuel, even if only to ask if anyone knew whether other garages had it. If a number of people did likewise, and more others read the queries, an impression of at least a local shortage would be created. The media were blamed for spreading the news, but I'd be very surprised if the first report of a shortage came from a reporter. It seems more likely that a reporter picked up the SM chat, enquired a bit more, and discovered that supply was more generally exceeding demand. I'd also be surprised if the whole issue was/is a media invention. Then, the government trying to draw a veil over the issue by announcing that there is plenty of fuel really - at the refineries - was hardly going to reassure those trying to get fuel from empty pumps that all was OK. You can't fill your car at a refinery! The politicians seem to spend half their lives on SM, so it was a bit surprising that they hadn't realised it was a story that couldn't be glossed over. That alone gave the wrong message that somethings going on, and the government don't want to talk about it - so it must be serious. Human nature then controlled what happened next. We drove home from Lincoln Sunday morning (A1, M25, M23, A27), and there were queues and empty fuel stations (all the 224 miles) home, with only a handful unaffected and open. People who rely on their vehicles for their income, directly or indirectly, were bound to nip off to the nearest pumps to ensure they could continue working. I don't see that, for example, as either panic buying or seeking the line of least resistance. Just a rational response to a potential threat to their ability to earn their keep. Of course some went OTT, some always do, and in the process made a bad situation worse. But, 'twas ever thus. I put most of this down the the availability of instant messaging and the shrinking timescales that are driving the media. 24 hour rolling news doesn't help, but I can't see it being uninvented now its here. Bad news just travel faster then it used to, and has almost always travelled faster than good news. It's just life, warts and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 malc d - 2021-09-29 11:42 AM Brian Kirby - 2021-09-29 9:42 AM Tracker - 2021-09-27 4:13 PM Due to a huge amount of good fortune with inflation and occupational pensions working very well in my favour, to which I added a lot of effort to maximise it all to my advantage my sunlit uplands too are nicely all around me. But so too is unrest, laziness, stupidity, naivety, incompetence and all manner of other conditions installed by generations of self serving and inept politicians - but far enough away not be an issue for me. I doubt the nation will ever again enjoy the prosperity borne of common sense, a work ethic, innovation that was encouraged and rewarded, self discipline and the willingness and common sense to get off their backsides and deal with any situation when it turns sour - which it did several times over the years - rather than blaming everyone else. This country has a great future behind it - but I am OK and that is what counts - shame others failed to make the effort to be in a similar situation but that's life I guess? It always helps to have chosen one's parents with great care, ...................................... The only real difference is that little slice of luck that came from having been in the right place, with sufficient wit and opportunity, at the right time. The people I find most irritating are the ones who have been fortunate, who believe that if anyone was less fortunate than themselves, it was their own fault. :-| Spot on Malc.....'there but for the grace of God' etc as the saying goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-09-29 1:16 PM It was/is inevitable that people would exchange info on SM about any garage that had run out of the required fuel, even if only to ask if anyone knew whether other garages had it. If a number of people did likewise, and more others read the queries, an impression of at least a local shortage would be created. Like it or not sm is quickest method of exchanging news info and used by billions of people around the world due to the proliferation of the smartphone. I don't have a smartphone because I don't like using them and some would say it's a generational thing which to an extent it is though i've seen a few older folk using them. Any "breaking news" can easily be flashed around the globe via sm in nano seconds so any info regarding the current fuel situation such as garages closed/open was bound to spread quickly and people using vehicles for business purposes would find it extremely useful. Then, the government trying to draw a veil over the issue by announcing that there is plenty of fuel really - at the refineries - was hardly going to reassure those trying to get fuel from empty pumps that all was OK. You can't fill your car at a refinery! Shapps seems to think so. On Sundays Marr show he said he knew there was no shortages because he'd spoken with all our refineries. It totally escaped him the fuel is in the wrong place due to not having enough drivers after losing EU truckers. They had plenty of warnings this would happen but completely ignored the professionals. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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