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They're still living in the dark ages.......


Guest pelmetman

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Horrible , despicable , nasty folk with vile views ... Und thats just the Beeb ... As for the other lot ... Well they aren't all like that are they ??? ... Most are lovely and cuddly ... Looks like another one yet again ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39314250 ... She may not eventually win but every time these things happen she becomes more popular

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Yes that is right Antony they are not all like that. You assume by the way that the nutter in Paris trying to grab a gun is a Muslim of course although it does not say that in the article but then I'm reading it on my mobile at the gym so may have missed it. I suspect he is of course but then lots of people assumed the bloke that kicked that woman down the stairs was a Muslim migrant and he turned out to be European.

 

Have either of you watched any of the stuff that keeps getting mentioned on here such as bbc exodus and recently very British Muslims or the recent channel 4 war child? I know the answer will be a big fat no. Funny that as I read your links and watch any videos posted but those that are radically opposed to Muslims just want to share horror stories or promote daily fail links showing Muslims in a bad light. How can you gain a balanced view if all you do is read and watch stuff that supports what you want to hear?

 

Watch the ones I mention please. It may or may not change your views but you accuse Muslims of being insular and not integrating but your kind of doing the same by tarring them all with the same brush without exploring other sources that might not suit your agenda or looking outside the region where you reside.

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Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 1:12 PM

 

Yes that is right Antony they are not all like that. You assume by the way that the nutter in Paris trying to grab a gun is a Muslim of course although it does not say that in the article but then I'm reading it on my mobile at the gym so may have missed it. I suspect he is of course but then lots of people assumed the bloke that kicked that woman down the stairs was a Muslim migrant and he turned out to be European.

 

Have either of you watched any of the stuff that keeps getting mentioned on here such as bbc exodus and recently very British Muslims or the recent channel 4 war child? I know the answer will be a big fat no. Funny that as I read your links and watch any videos posted but those that are radically opposed to Muslims just want to share horror stories or promote daily fail links showing Muslims in a bad light. How can you gain a balanced view if all you do is read and watch stuff that supports what you want to hear?

 

Watch the ones I mention please. It may or may not change your views but you accuse Muslims of being insular and not integrating but your kind of doing the same by tarring them all with the same brush without exploring other sources that might not suit your agenda or looking outside the region where you reside.

 

You need to watch those Muslim things because you live in your very whites only village ... I dont need to as I live in an area with a reasonable amount of them ... They are a very real everyday reality for me and more so for my missus who's charity deals with them on some horrific issues so the programme is of no interest what so ever ... As for the refugee documentary I don't deny we have genuine cases but I do believe we have way more that are not ... I would however love to see programme makers daring to make programmes on the horrendous everyday murder and rapes of Christians and the persecution they suffer from our Muslim friends ... That would be worth watching

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antony1969 - 2017-03-18 1:28 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 1:12 PM

 

Yes that is right Antony they are not all like that. You assume by the way that the nutter in Paris trying to grab a gun is a Muslim of course although it does not say that in the article but then I'm reading it on my mobile at the gym so may have missed it. I suspect he is of course but then lots of people assumed the bloke that kicked that woman down the stairs was a Muslim migrant and he turned out to be European.

 

Have either of you watched any of the stuff that keeps getting mentioned on here such as bbc exodus and recently very British Muslims or the recent channel 4 war child? I know the answer will be a big fat no. Funny that as I read your links and watch any videos posted but those that are radically opposed to Muslims just want to share horror stories or promote daily fail links showing Muslims in a bad light. How can you gain a balanced view if all you do is read and watch stuff that supports what you want to hear?

 

Watch the ones I mention please. It may or may not change your views but you accuse Muslims of being insular and not integrating but your kind of doing the same by tarring them all with the same brush without exploring other sources that might not suit your agenda or looking outside the region where you reside.

 

You need to watch those Muslim things because you live in your very whites only village ... I dont need to as I live in an area with a reasonable amount of them ... They are a very real everyday reality for me and more so for my missus who's charity deals with them on some horrific issues so the programme is of no interest what so ever ... As for the refugee documentary I don't deny we have genuine cases but I do believe we have way more that are not ... I would however love to see programme makers daring to make programmes on the horrendous everyday murder and rapes of Christians and the persecution they suffer from our Muslim friends ... That would be worth watching

 

Youve caught me in the chippy now!

 

On what basis do you assume the majority of the refugee cases are not genuine? How do you come to that conclusion? If because I live in utopia I don't know about Muslims how do you know your right about refugees in Europe?

 

I agree about seeing the programs you talk about. If it's happening let's hear about it and expose it

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Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 2:31 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 1:28 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 1:12 PM

 

Yes that is right Antony they are not all like that. You assume by the way that the nutter in Paris trying to grab a gun is a Muslim of course although it does not say that in the article but then I'm reading it on my mobile at the gym so may have missed it. I suspect he is of course but then lots of people assumed the bloke that kicked that woman down the stairs was a Muslim migrant and he turned out to be European.

 

Have either of you watched any of the stuff that keeps getting mentioned on here such as bbc exodus and recently very British Muslims or the recent channel 4 war child? I know the answer will be a big fat no. Funny that as I read your links and watch any videos posted but those that are radically opposed to Muslims just want to share horror stories or promote daily fail links showing Muslims in a bad light. How can you gain a balanced view if all you do is read and watch stuff that supports what you want to hear?

 

Watch the ones I mention please. It may or may not change your views but you accuse Muslims of being insular and not integrating but your kind of doing the same by tarring them all with the same brush without exploring other sources that might not suit your agenda or looking outside the region where you reside.

 

You need to watch those Muslim things because you live in your very whites only village ... I dont need to as I live in an area with a reasonable amount of them ... They are a very real everyday reality for me and more so for my missus who's charity deals with them on some horrific issues so the programme is of no interest what so ever ... As for the refugee documentary I don't deny we have genuine cases but I do believe we have way more that are not ... I would however love to see programme makers daring to make programmes on the horrendous everyday murder and rapes of Christians and the persecution they suffer from our Muslim friends ... That would be worth watching

 

Youve caught me in the chippy now!

 

On what basis do you assume the majority of the refugee cases are not genuine? How do you come to that conclusion? If because I live in utopia I don't know about Muslims how do you know your right about refugees in Europe?

 

I agree about seeing the programs you talk about. If it's happening let's hear about it and expose it

 

Straight from one of your heroes mouth ... https://www.rt.com/news/330284-economic-migrants-eu-refugees/

and thats probably a way below figure too

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Punishment for Blaspheming?

 

Both my parents were devout Christian and if my Dad ever heard me 'blaspheming' i'd get my arse whacked.....simple as that! Dad was strict on discipline and that, and respect is whats gone today. Even in latter years long after my Dad had passed away, i'd never blaspheme in the presence of my Mum because it would be disrespectful to her.

 

I kept my 'blaspheming' in the workplace or among mates but even then, never in front of women!

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antony1969 - 2017-03-18 2:50 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 2:31 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 1:28 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 1:12 PM

 

Yes that is right Antony they are not all like that. You assume by the way that the nutter in Paris trying to grab a gun is a Muslim of course although it does not say that in the article but then I'm reading it on my mobile at the gym so may have missed it. I suspect he is of course but then lots of people assumed the bloke that kicked that woman down the stairs was a Muslim migrant and he turned out to be European.

 

Have either of you watched any of the stuff that keeps getting mentioned on here such as bbc exodus and recently very British Muslims or the recent channel 4 war child? I know the answer will be a big fat no. Funny that as I read your links and watch any videos posted but those that are radically opposed to Muslims just want to share horror stories or promote daily fail links showing Muslims in a bad light. How can you gain a balanced view if all you do is read and watch stuff that supports what you want to hear?

 

Watch the ones I mention please. It may or may not change your views but you accuse Muslims of being insular and not integrating but your kind of doing the same by tarring them all with the same brush without exploring other sources that might not suit your agenda or looking outside the region where you reside.

 

You need to watch those Muslim things because you live in your very whites only village ... I dont need to as I live in an area with a reasonable amount of them ... They are a very real everyday reality for me and more so for my missus who's charity deals with them on some horrific issues so the programme is of no interest what so ever ... As for the refugee documentary I don't deny we have genuine cases but I do believe we have way more that are not ... I would however love to see programme makers daring to make programmes on the horrendous everyday murder and rapes of Christians and the persecution they suffer from our Muslim friends ... That would be worth watching

 

Youve caught me in the chippy now!

 

On what basis do you assume the majority of the refugee cases are not genuine? How do you come to that conclusion? If because I live in utopia I don't know about Muslims how do you know your right about refugees in Europe?

 

I agree about seeing the programs you talk about. If it's happening let's hear about it and expose it

 

Straight from one of your heroes mouth ... https://www.rt.com/news/330284-economic-migrants-eu-refugees/

and thats probably a way below figure too

 

Could be more, could be less. The fact is nobody truly knows. What we do know is that over 10 million genuine refugees have fled the likes of Syria and Afghanistan and a small percentage of 10% or so have made it to Europe where its our humanitarian duty to look after them. Yes its made more difficult that some of them might be economic migrants from other countries and we need to do our best to whittle out those that are. Not an easy task. We should be more concerned about the 10000 children that have gone missing since they arrived in Europe according to Europol. We should be more concerned about 11 year olds making perilous journeys on their own or families being kidnapped en route within Europe I might add and held hostage until their relatives send more money. We should be concerned about Serbian and Hungarian soldiers and Police beating the living sh1t out of them for no reason whatsoever. These people are abused all along the way even when they get to Europe.

 

Its seems the media here though is too preoccupied with claiming they are not genuine or may not really be children. Oh I almost forgot and they are of course all terrorists.

 

If you missed it watch "War Child". Told almost exclusively through the eyes of refugee children http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-03-12/war-child-a-striking-saddening-insight-into-how-refugee-children-are-being-robbed-of-their-childhood

 

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/war-child/episode-guide/

 

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I suspect he is of course but then lots of people assumed the bloke that kicked that woman down the stairs was a Muslim migrant and he turned out to be European.

....................................................

He turned out to be from Eastern Europe from Bulgaria, along with his three mate's.

 

Dave

 

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nowtelse2do - 2017-03-18 4:52 PM

 

 

I suspect he is of course but then lots of people assumed the bloke that kicked that woman down the stairs was a Muslim migrant and he turned out to be European.

....................................................

He turned out to be from Eastern Europe from Bulgaria, along with his three mate's.

 

Dave

 

Thanks for backing me up. As I said, a European.

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Guest pelmetman
Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 3:15 PM

 

 

Punishment for Blaspheming?

 

Both my parents were devout Christian and if my Dad ever heard me 'blaspheming' i'd get my arse whacked.....simple as that! Dad was strict on discipline and that, and respect is whats gone today. Even in latter years long after my Dad had passed away, i'd never blaspheme in the presence of my Mum because it would be disrespectful to her.

 

I kept my 'blaspheming' in the workplace or among mates but even then, never in front of women!

 

So you don't agree with the Koran then? ;-) ......That makes a refreshing change for you :D ......

 

Blasphemy in Islam is impious utterance or action concerning God, Muhammad or anything considered sacred in Islam. The Quran admonishes blasphemy, but does not specify any worldly punishment for blasphemy. ... The punishment can be fines, imprisonment, flogging, amputation, hanging, or beheading.

 

8-) .......

 

 

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Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 3:53 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 2:50 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 2:31 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 1:28 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 1:12 PM

 

Yes that is right Antony they are not all like that. You assume by the way that the nutter in Paris trying to grab a gun is a Muslim of course although it does not say that in the article but then I'm reading it on my mobile at the gym so may have missed it. I suspect he is of course but then lots of people assumed the bloke that kicked that woman down the stairs was a Muslim migrant and he turned out to be European.

 

Have either of you watched any of the stuff that keeps getting mentioned on here such as bbc exodus and recently very British Muslims or the recent channel 4 war child? I know the answer will be a big fat no. Funny that as I read your links and watch any videos posted but those that are radically opposed to Muslims just want to share horror stories or promote daily fail links showing Muslims in a bad light. How can you gain a balanced view if all you do is read and watch stuff that supports what you want to hear?

 

Watch the ones I mention please. It may or may not change your views but you accuse Muslims of being insular and not integrating but your kind of doing the same by tarring them all with the same brush without exploring other sources that might not suit your agenda or looking outside the region where you reside.

 

You need to watch those Muslim things because you live in your very whites only village ... I dont need to as I live in an area with a reasonable amount of them ... They are a very real everyday reality for me and more so for my missus who's charity deals with them on some horrific issues so the programme is of no interest what so ever ... As for the refugee documentary I don't deny we have genuine cases but I do believe we have way more that are not ... I would however love to see programme makers daring to make programmes on the horrendous everyday murder and rapes of Christians and the persecution they suffer from our Muslim friends ... That would be worth watching

 

Youve caught me in the chippy now!

 

On what basis do you assume the majority of the refugee cases are not genuine? How do you come to that conclusion? If because I live in utopia I don't know about Muslims how do you know your right about refugees in Europe?

 

I agree about seeing the programs you talk about. If it's happening let's hear about it and expose it

 

Straight from one of your heroes mouth ... https://www.rt.com/news/330284-economic-migrants-eu-refugees/

and thats probably a way below figure too

 

Could be more, could be less. The fact is nobody truly knows. What we do know is that over 10 million genuine refugees have fled the likes of Syria and Afghanistan and a small percentage of 10% or so have made it to Europe where its our humanitarian duty to look after them. Yes its made more difficult that some of them might be economic migrants from other countries and we need to do our best to whittle out those that are. Not an easy task. We should be more concerned about the 10000 children that have gone missing since they arrived in Europe according to Europol. We should be more concerned about 11 year olds making perilous journeys on their own or families being kidnapped en route within Europe I might add and held hostage until their relatives send more money. We should be concerned about Serbian and Hungarian soldiers and Police beating the living sh1t out of them for no reason whatsoever. These people are abused all along the way even when they get to Europe.

 

Its seems the media here though is too preoccupied with claiming they are not genuine or may not really be children. Oh I almost forgot and they are of course all terrorists.

 

If you missed it watch "War Child". Told almost exclusively through the eyes of refugee children http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-03-12/war-child-a-striking-saddening-insight-into-how-refugee-children-are-being-robbed-of-their-childhood

 

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/war-child/episode-guide/

 

We should be concerned about innocent folk in Europe getting slaughtered by refugees and raped by refugees and attacked by refugees and I reckon Europe has plenty of cases of saddening insights into how childrens innocence was robbed by refugees ... Lets watch a programme on that maybe

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antony1969 - 2017-03-18 7:57 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 3:53 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 2:50 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 2:31 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 1:28 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 1:12 PM

 

Yes that is right Antony they are not all like that. You assume by the way that the nutter in Paris trying to grab a gun is a Muslim of course although it does not say that in the article but then I'm reading it on my mobile at the gym so may have missed it. I suspect he is of course but then lots of people assumed the bloke that kicked that woman down the stairs was a Muslim migrant and he turned out to be European.

 

Have either of you watched any of the stuff that keeps getting mentioned on here such as bbc exodus and recently very British Muslims or the recent channel 4 war child? I know the answer will be a big fat no. Funny that as I read your links and watch any videos posted but those that are radically opposed to Muslims just want to share horror stories or promote daily fail links showing Muslims in a bad light. How can you gain a balanced view if all you do is read and watch stuff that supports what you want to hear?

 

Watch the ones I mention please. It may or may not change your views but you accuse Muslims of being insular and not integrating but your kind of doing the same by tarring them all with the same brush without exploring other sources that might not suit your agenda or looking outside the region where you reside.

 

You need to watch those Muslim things because you live in your very whites only village ... I dont need to as I live in an area with a reasonable amount of them ... They are a very real everyday reality for me and more so for my missus who's charity deals with them on some horrific issues so the programme is of no interest what so ever ... As for the refugee documentary I don't deny we have genuine cases but I do believe we have way more that are not ... I would however love to see programme makers daring to make programmes on the horrendous everyday murder and rapes of Christians and the persecution they suffer from our Muslim friends ... That would be worth watching

 

Youve caught me in the chippy now!

 

On what basis do you assume the majority of the refugee cases are not genuine? How do you come to that conclusion? If because I live in utopia I don't know about Muslims how do you know your right about refugees in Europe?

 

I agree about seeing the programs you talk about. If it's happening let's hear about it and expose it

 

Straight from one of your heroes mouth ... https://www.rt.com/news/330284-economic-migrants-eu-refugees/

and thats probably a way below figure too

 

Could be more, could be less. The fact is nobody truly knows. What we do know is that over 10 million genuine refugees have fled the likes of Syria and Afghanistan and a small percentage of 10% or so have made it to Europe where its our humanitarian duty to look after them. Yes its made more difficult that some of them might be economic migrants from other countries and we need to do our best to whittle out those that are. Not an easy task. We should be more concerned about the 10000 children that have gone missing since they arrived in Europe according to Europol. We should be more concerned about 11 year olds making perilous journeys on their own or families being kidnapped en route within Europe I might add and held hostage until their relatives send more money. We should be concerned about Serbian and Hungarian soldiers and Police beating the living sh1t out of them for no reason whatsoever. These people are abused all along the way even when they get to Europe.

 

Its seems the media here though is too preoccupied with claiming they are not genuine or may not really be children. Oh I almost forgot and they are of course all terrorists.

 

If you missed it watch "War Child". Told almost exclusively through the eyes of refugee children http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-03-12/war-child-a-striking-saddening-insight-into-how-refugee-children-are-being-robbed-of-their-childhood

 

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/war-child/episode-guide/

 

We should be concerned about innocent folk in Europe getting slaughtered by refugees and raped by refugees and attacked by refugees and I reckon Europe has plenty of cases of saddening insights into how childrens innocence was robbed by refugees ... Lets watch a programme on that maybe

 

How do you know these crimes are being committed by refugees? Earlier you stated that 60% of the migrants to Europe were not refugees but economic migrants. I am sure we have been over this before and it was proved that the vast majority of crimes committed since the influx were committed not by refugees from the likes of Syria but from economic Migrants from the likes of Serbia, Georgia and Africa. This is the link regarding the report from an earlier thread. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-crime-idUSKCN0YT28V

 

Out of the crimes committed (mainly by economic migrants) only 1.1% of them were classed as sex crimes. I would take from that two things. The main problem is economic migrants not genuine refugees and that the majority of crime is petty theft.

 

We really need to start separating the two areas of migration rather than lumping them together. My impression of genuine refugees is their sole aim is to seek safety and perhaps be accepted in a country where maybe they have family, friends or speak the language, I suspect a lot of Economic Migrants have the same goals but I am sure there are a higher percentage of chancers and criminals amongst them but if they are not fleeing for their lives then really we cannot have them coming into Europe unfettered.

 

 

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Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 10:24 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 7:57 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 3:53 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 2:50 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 2:31 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 1:28 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 1:12 PM

 

Yes that is right Antony they are not all like that. You assume by the way that the nutter in Paris trying to grab a gun is a Muslim of course although it does not say that in the article but then I'm reading it on my mobile at the gym so may have missed it. I suspect he is of course but then lots of people assumed the bloke that kicked that woman down the stairs was a Muslim migrant and he turned out to be European.

 

Have either of you watched any of the stuff that keeps getting mentioned on here such as bbc exodus and recently very British Muslims or the recent channel 4 war child? I know the answer will be a big fat no. Funny that as I read your links and watch any videos posted but those that are radically opposed to Muslims just want to share horror stories or promote daily fail links showing Muslims in a bad light. How can you gain a balanced view if all you do is read and watch stuff that supports what you want to hear?

 

Watch the ones I mention please. It may or may not change your views but you accuse Muslims of being insular and not integrating but your kind of doing the same by tarring them all with the same brush without exploring other sources that might not suit your agenda or looking outside the region where you reside.

 

You need to watch those Muslim things because you live in your very whites only village ... I dont need to as I live in an area with a reasonable amount of them ... They are a very real everyday reality for me and more so for my missus who's charity deals with them on some horrific issues so the programme is of no interest what so ever ... As for the refugee documentary I don't deny we have genuine cases but I do believe we have way more that are not ... I would however love to see programme makers daring to make programmes on the horrendous everyday murder and rapes of Christians and the persecution they suffer from our Muslim friends ... That would be worth watching

 

Youve caught me in the chippy now!

 

On what basis do you assume the majority of the refugee cases are not genuine? How do you come to that conclusion? If because I live in utopia I don't know about Muslims how do you know your right about refugees in Europe?

 

I agree about seeing the programs you talk about. If it's happening let's hear about it and expose it

 

Straight from one of your heroes mouth ... https://www.rt.com/news/330284-economic-migrants-eu-refugees/

and thats probably a way below figure too

 

Could be more, could be less. The fact is nobody truly knows. What we do know is that over 10 million genuine refugees have fled the likes of Syria and Afghanistan and a small percentage of 10% or so have made it to Europe where its our humanitarian duty to look after them. Yes its made more difficult that some of them might be economic migrants from other countries and we need to do our best to whittle out those that are. Not an easy task. We should be more concerned about the 10000 children that have gone missing since they arrived in Europe according to Europol. We should be more concerned about 11 year olds making perilous journeys on their own or families being kidnapped en route within Europe I might add and held hostage until their relatives send more money. We should be concerned about Serbian and Hungarian soldiers and Police beating the living sh1t out of them for no reason whatsoever. These people are abused all along the way even when they get to Europe.

 

Its seems the media here though is too preoccupied with claiming they are not genuine or may not really be children. Oh I almost forgot and they are of course all terrorists.

 

If you missed it watch "War Child". Told almost exclusively through the eyes of refugee children http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-03-12/war-child-a-striking-saddening-insight-into-how-refugee-children-are-being-robbed-of-their-childhood

 

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/war-child/episode-guide/

 

We should be concerned about innocent folk in Europe getting slaughtered by refugees and raped by refugees and attacked by refugees and I reckon Europe has plenty of cases of saddening insights into how childrens innocence was robbed by refugees ... Lets watch a programme on that maybe

 

How do you know these crimes are being committed by refugees? Earlier you stated that 60% of the migrants to Europe were not refugees but economic migrants. I am sure we have been over this before and it was proved that the vast majority of crimes committed since the influx were committed not by refugees from the likes of Syria but from economic Migrants from the likes of Serbia, Georgia and Africa. This is the link regarding the report from an earlier thread. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-crime-idUSKCN0YT28V

 

Out of the crimes committed (mainly by economic migrants) only 1.1% of them were classed as sex crimes. I would take from that two things. The main problem is economic migrants not genuine refugees and that the majority of crime is petty theft.

 

We really need to start separating the two areas of migration rather than lumping them together. My impression of genuine refugees is their sole aim is to seek safety and perhaps be accepted in a country where maybe they have family, friends or speak the language, I suspect a lot of Economic Migrants have the same goals but I am sure there are a higher percentage of chancers and criminals amongst them but if they are not fleeing for their lives then really we cannot have them coming into Europe unfettered.

 

 

Me and your Eu man both called them economic migrants but you can bet your bottom dollar wherever they seek asylum they dont call themselves or class themselves that way ... Im pretty sure they'll claim to be a refugee running from something dont you ... You mention Serbia and Georgia , are you saying more crimes throughout Europe have been carried out by refugees from those countries than from the many Muslim countries these things are coming from ??? ... In Germany nearly 4% of sex crimes committed in 2015 were by refugee types ... You can bet 2016 was a much worse year ... Sweden which as we know is currently suffering at the hands of refugee types doesn't specify the nationality of sex attackers which for you and them is quite handy ... The pitifully low 1.1% of sex attack victims you give is acceptable collateral damage for your big caring wet society I suppose

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antony1969 - 2017-03-19 12:07 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 10:24 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 7:57 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 3:53 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 2:50 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 2:31 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 1:28 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 1:12 PM

 

Yes that is right Antony they are not all like that. You assume by the way that the nutter in Paris trying to grab a gun is a Muslim of course although it does not say that in the article but then I'm reading it on my mobile at the gym so may have missed it. I suspect he is of course but then lots of people assumed the bloke that kicked that woman down the stairs was a Muslim migrant and he turned out to be European.

 

Have either of you watched any of the stuff that keeps getting mentioned on here such as bbc exodus and recently very British Muslims or the recent channel 4 war child? I know the answer will be a big fat no. Funny that as I read your links and watch any videos posted but those that are radically opposed to Muslims just want to share horror stories or promote daily fail links showing Muslims in a bad light. How can you gain a balanced view if all you do is read and watch stuff that supports what you want to hear?

 

Watch the ones I mention please. It may or may not change your views but you accuse Muslims of being insular and not integrating but your kind of doing the same by tarring them all with the same brush without exploring other sources that might not suit your agenda or looking outside the region where you reside.

 

You need to watch those Muslim things because you live in your very whites only village ... I dont need to as I live in an area with a reasonable amount of them ... They are a very real everyday reality for me and more so for my missus who's charity deals with them on some horrific issues so the programme is of no interest what so ever ... As for the refugee documentary I don't deny we have genuine cases but I do believe we have way more that are not ... I would however love to see programme makers daring to make programmes on the horrendous everyday murder and rapes of Christians and the persecution they suffer from our Muslim friends ... That would be worth watching

 

Youve caught me in the chippy now!

 

On what basis do you assume the majority of the refugee cases are not genuine? How do you come to that conclusion? If because I live in utopia I don't know about Muslims how do you know your right about refugees in Europe?

 

I agree about seeing the programs you talk about. If it's happening let's hear about it and expose it

 

Straight from one of your heroes mouth ... https://www.rt.com/news/330284-economic-migrants-eu-refugees/

and thats probably a way below figure too

 

Could be more, could be less. The fact is nobody truly knows. What we do know is that over 10 million genuine refugees have fled the likes of Syria and Afghanistan and a small percentage of 10% or so have made it to Europe where its our humanitarian duty to look after them. Yes its made more difficult that some of them might be economic migrants from other countries and we need to do our best to whittle out those that are. Not an easy task. We should be more concerned about the 10000 children that have gone missing since they arrived in Europe according to Europol. We should be more concerned about 11 year olds making perilous journeys on their own or families being kidnapped en route within Europe I might add and held hostage until their relatives send more money. We should be concerned about Serbian and Hungarian soldiers and Police beating the living sh1t out of them for no reason whatsoever. These people are abused all along the way even when they get to Europe.

 

Its seems the media here though is too preoccupied with claiming they are not genuine or may not really be children. Oh I almost forgot and they are of course all terrorists.

 

If you missed it watch "War Child". Told almost exclusively through the eyes of refugee children http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-03-12/war-child-a-striking-saddening-insight-into-how-refugee-children-are-being-robbed-of-their-childhood

 

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/war-child/episode-guide/

 

We should be concerned about innocent folk in Europe getting slaughtered by refugees and raped by refugees and attacked by refugees and I reckon Europe has plenty of cases of saddening insights into how childrens innocence was robbed by refugees ... Lets watch a programme on that maybe

 

How do you know these crimes are being committed by refugees? Earlier you stated that 60% of the migrants to Europe were not refugees but economic migrants. I am sure we have been over this before and it was proved that the vast majority of crimes committed since the influx were committed not by refugees from the likes of Syria but from economic Migrants from the likes of Serbia, Georgia and Africa. This is the link regarding the report from an earlier thread. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-crime-idUSKCN0YT28V

 

Out of the crimes committed (mainly by economic migrants) only 1.1% of them were classed as sex crimes. I would take from that two things. The main problem is economic migrants not genuine refugees and that the majority of crime is petty theft.

 

We really need to start separating the two areas of migration rather than lumping them together. My impression of genuine refugees is their sole aim is to seek safety and perhaps be accepted in a country where maybe they have family, friends or speak the language, I suspect a lot of Economic Migrants have the same goals but I am sure there are a higher percentage of chancers and criminals amongst them but if they are not fleeing for their lives then really we cannot have them coming into Europe unfettered.

 

 

Me and your Eu man both called them economic migrants but you can bet your bottom dollar wherever they seek asylum they dont call themselves or class themselves that way ... Im pretty sure they'll claim to be a refugee running from something dont you ... You mention Serbia and Georgia , are you saying more crimes throughout Europe have been carried out by refugees from those countries than from the many Muslim countries these things are coming from ??? ... In Germany nearly 4% of sex crimes committed in 2015 were by refugee types ... You can bet 2016 was a much worse year ... Sweden which as we know is currently suffering at the hands of refugee types doesn't specify the nationality of sex attackers which for you and them is quite handy ... The pitifully low 1.1% of sex attack victims you give is acceptable collateral damage for your big caring wet society I suppose

 

If they are from Serbia or Georgia they are not refugees then are they? You say "refugee types" which again is bundling them all together. You are right I suspect, many will say they are refugees when they are not but this does not deter from the fact that we do have a moral duty to seek out and help genuine refugees.

 

So how do we solve it? I have spent a long time pondering over this. It seems impossible at first but I found this article. http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690028-european-problem-demands-common-coherent-eu-policy-let-refugees-regulate

 

Ok its from February 2016 but its worth a read as it makes a lot of sense. It really boils down to money and countries working together. Europe went a bit bonkers over this. Germany and Sweden adopted the open door policy which ended up with many other European countries panicking and taking the opposite policy leaving Germany and Sweden to take the brunt. The EU and key countries outside the EU need to work together and invest heavily to make sure that genuine refugees get help and preferably end up in the likes of Lebanon, Turkey or Jordan rather than Europe and that Economic Migrants are deterred at source.

 

Read the article it makes a lot of sense and no its not a lovey dovey hug a Muslim piece.

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Guest pelmetman
Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 1:10 PM

 

The EU and key countries outside the EU need to work together and invest heavily to make sure that genuine refugees get help and preferably end up in the likes of Lebanon, Turkey or Jordan rather than Europe and that Economic Migrants are deterred at source.

 

 

Yeah......like that's gonna happen (lol) ......

 

You really do live on a different planet Barry ;-) ........

 

 

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Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 1:10 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-19 12:07 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 10:24 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 7:57 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 3:53 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 2:50 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 2:31 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 1:28 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-18 1:12 PM

 

Yes that is right Antony they are not all like that. You assume by the way that the nutter in Paris trying to grab a gun is a Muslim of course although it does not say that in the article but then I'm reading it on my mobile at the gym so may have missed it. I suspect he is of course but then lots of people assumed the bloke that kicked that woman down the stairs was a Muslim migrant and he turned out to be European.

 

Have either of you watched any of the stuff that keeps getting mentioned on here such as bbc exodus and recently very British Muslims or the recent channel 4 war child? I know the answer will be a big fat no. Funny that as I read your links and watch any videos posted but those that are radically opposed to Muslims just want to share horror stories or promote daily fail links showing Muslims in a bad light. How can you gain a balanced view if all you do is read and watch stuff that supports what you want to hear?

 

Watch the ones I mention please. It may or may not change your views but you accuse Muslims of being insular and not integrating but your kind of doing the same by tarring them all with the same brush without exploring other sources that might not suit your agenda or looking outside the region where you reside.

 

You need to watch those Muslim things because you live in your very whites only village ... I dont need to as I live in an area with a reasonable amount of them ... They are a very real everyday reality for me and more so for my missus who's charity deals with them on some horrific issues so the programme is of no interest what so ever ... As for the refugee documentary I don't deny we have genuine cases but I do believe we have way more that are not ... I would however love to see programme makers daring to make programmes on the horrendous everyday murder and rapes of Christians and the persecution they suffer from our Muslim friends ... That would be worth watching

 

Youve caught me in the chippy now!

 

On what basis do you assume the majority of the refugee cases are not genuine? How do you come to that conclusion? If because I live in utopia I don't know about Muslims how do you know your right about refugees in Europe?

 

I agree about seeing the programs you talk about. If it's happening let's hear about it and expose it

 

Straight from one of your heroes mouth ... https://www.rt.com/news/330284-economic-migrants-eu-refugees/

and thats probably a way below figure too

 

Could be more, could be less. The fact is nobody truly knows. What we do know is that over 10 million genuine refugees have fled the likes of Syria and Afghanistan and a small percentage of 10% or so have made it to Europe where its our humanitarian duty to look after them. Yes its made more difficult that some of them might be economic migrants from other countries and we need to do our best to whittle out those that are. Not an easy task. We should be more concerned about the 10000 children that have gone missing since they arrived in Europe according to Europol. We should be more concerned about 11 year olds making perilous journeys on their own or families being kidnapped en route within Europe I might add and held hostage until their relatives send more money. We should be concerned about Serbian and Hungarian soldiers and Police beating the living sh1t out of them for no reason whatsoever. These people are abused all along the way even when they get to Europe.

 

Its seems the media here though is too preoccupied with claiming they are not genuine or may not really be children. Oh I almost forgot and they are of course all terrorists.

 

If you missed it watch "War Child". Told almost exclusively through the eyes of refugee children http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-03-12/war-child-a-striking-saddening-insight-into-how-refugee-children-are-being-robbed-of-their-childhood

 

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/war-child/episode-guide/

 

We should be concerned about innocent folk in Europe getting slaughtered by refugees and raped by refugees and attacked by refugees and I reckon Europe has plenty of cases of saddening insights into how childrens innocence was robbed by refugees ... Lets watch a programme on that maybe

 

How do you know these crimes are being committed by refugees? Earlier you stated that 60% of the migrants to Europe were not refugees but economic migrants. I am sure we have been over this before and it was proved that the vast majority of crimes committed since the influx were committed not by refugees from the likes of Syria but from economic Migrants from the likes of Serbia, Georgia and Africa. This is the link regarding the report from an earlier thread. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-crime-idUSKCN0YT28V

 

Out of the crimes committed (mainly by economic migrants) only 1.1% of them were classed as sex crimes. I would take from that two things. The main problem is economic migrants not genuine refugees and that the majority of crime is petty theft.

 

We really need to start separating the two areas of migration rather than lumping them together. My impression of genuine refugees is their sole aim is to seek safety and perhaps be accepted in a country where maybe they have family, friends or speak the language, I suspect a lot of Economic Migrants have the same goals but I am sure there are a higher percentage of chancers and criminals amongst them but if they are not fleeing for their lives then really we cannot have them coming into Europe unfettered.

 

 

Me and your Eu man both called them economic migrants but you can bet your bottom dollar wherever they seek asylum they dont call themselves or class themselves that way ... Im pretty sure they'll claim to be a refugee running from something dont you ... You mention Serbia and Georgia , are you saying more crimes throughout Europe have been carried out by refugees from those countries than from the many Muslim countries these things are coming from ??? ... In Germany nearly 4% of sex crimes committed in 2015 were by refugee types ... You can bet 2016 was a much worse year ... Sweden which as we know is currently suffering at the hands of refugee types doesn't specify the nationality of sex attackers which for you and them is quite handy ... The pitifully low 1.1% of sex attack victims you give is acceptable collateral damage for your big caring wet society I suppose

 

If they are from Serbia or Georgia they are not refugees then are they? You say "refugee types" which again is bundling them all together. You are right I suspect, many will say they are refugees when they are not but this does not deter from the fact that we do have a moral duty to seek out and help genuine refugees.

 

So how do we solve it? I have spent a long time pondering over this. It seems impossible at first but I found this article. http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21690028-european-problem-demands-common-coherent-eu-policy-let-refugees-regulate

 

Ok its from February 2016 but its worth a read as it makes a lot of sense. It really boils down to money and countries working together. Europe went a bit bonkers over this. Germany and Sweden adopted the open door policy which ended up with many other European countries panicking and taking the opposite policy leaving Germany and Sweden to take the brunt. The EU and key countries outside the EU need to work together and invest heavily to make sure that genuine refugees get help and preferably end up in the likes of Lebanon, Turkey or Jordan rather than Europe and that Economic Migrants are deterred at source.

 

Read the article it makes a lot of sense and no its not a lovey dovey hug a Muslim piece.

 

Barry they describe themselves as refugees wether they are genuine or economic migrants so refugee would be the term I use to describe them and we and the rest of Europe have taken in christ knows how many economic migrants under the refugee banner so for me refugee is the title they want and thats what I'll call em ... Germany and Sweden adopted the open door policy and everyone else panicked ??? ... Swedens been on some liberal wet crusade to change the face of the country for years for some reason and the figures have swelled with refugees in the last few years ... If other European countries panicked its because of the disastrous effects its had on both those countries ... Your link requires me to join and I can't be bothered filling in the form as anything that needs "investing heavily" in will annoy me as personally I would like to "invest heavily" on our old / NHS and home stuff way before chucking more money than we already do at that ... Im not belittling your concern for em by the way , you care about them deeply but I dont

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I can read the article and I am not a subscriber. However Ill copy and paste the content at the end of this post if you or anyone else is interested. Apologies in advance if it clutters up the thread as its quite long.

 

 

pelmetman - 2017-03-19 2:15 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 1:10 PM

 

The EU and key countries outside the EU need to work together and invest heavily to make sure that genuine refugees get help and preferably end up in the likes of Lebanon, Turkey or Jordan rather than Europe and that Economic Migrants are deterred at source.

 

 

Yeah......like that's gonna happen (lol) ......

 

You really do live on a different planet Barry ;-) ........

 

 

Why? Read the article, there is a lot of sense in it. Of course it needs more money and unity. How else do you propose we resolve it? These people are going to come here no matter whether you like it or not so it needs an international solution. If we had unity and an international solution then perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess. Washing your hands of it and saying its not our problem just makes it worse. What would you do? Push them back out to sea? Torpedo the little rubber boats? I really want to know what your answer is.

 

Anyway. The text of the article is below.

 

 

 

REFUGEES are reasonable people in desperate circumstances. Life for many of the 1m-odd asylum-seekers who have fled Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and other war-torn countries for Europe in the past year has become intolerable. Europe is peaceful, rich and accessible. Most people would rather not abandon their homes and start again among strangers. But when the alternative is the threat of death from barrel-bombs and sabre-wielding fanatics, they make the only rational choice.

 

The flow of refugees would have been manageable if European Union countries had worked together, as Angela Merkel, Germany’s chancellor, has always wished (and The Economist urged). Instead Germany and Sweden have been left to cope alone. Today their willingness to do so is exhausted. Unless Europe soon restores order, political pressure will force Mrs Merkel to clamp down unilaterally, starting a wave of border closures (see article). More worrying, the migrant crisis is feeding xenophobia and political populism. The divisive forces of right-wing nationalism have already taken hold in parts of eastern Europe. If they spread westward into Germany, France and Italy then the EU could tear itself apart.

 

The situation today is a mess. Refugees have been free to sail across the Mediterranean, register and make for whichever country seems most welcoming. Many economic migrants with no claim to asylum have found a place in the queue by lying about where they came from. This free-for-all must be replaced by a system in which asylum applicants are screened when they first reach Europe’s borders—or better still, before they cross the Mediterranean. Those who are ineligible for asylum should be sent back without delay; those likely to qualify should be sent on to countries willing to accept them.

Order on the border

 

Creating a well-regulated system requires three steps. The first is to curb the “push factors” that encourage people to risk the crossing, by beefing up aid to refugees, particularly to the victims of the civil wars in Syria and Iraq, including the huge number who have fled to neighbouring countries such as Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon. The second is to review asylum claims while refugees are still in centres in the Middle East or in the “hotspots” (mainly in Greece and Italy), where they go when they first arrive in the EU. The third element is to insist that asylum-seekers stay put until their applications are processed, rather than jumping on a train to Germany.

 

All these steps are fraught with difficulty. Consider the “push factors” first. The prospect of ending Syria’s civil war is as remote as ever: peace talks in Geneva this week were suspended without progress. But the EU could do a lot more to help refugees and their host countries. Scandalously, aid for Syrians was cut in 2015 even as the war grew bloodier: aid agencies got a bit more than half of what they needed last year, according to the UN. Donors at a conference on Syria in London this week were asked for $9 billion for 2016—about as much as Germans spend on chocolate every year. Far more is needed and will be needed every year for several years.

 

Europe’s money should be used not only to feed and house refugees but also to coax host countries into letting them work. For the first four years of the conflict Syrians were denied work permits in Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon. Recently Turkey has begun to grant them. Donors should press Jordan and Lebanon to follow. European cash could help teach the 400,000 refugee children in Turkey who have no classes.

 

Sometimes the answer is no

 

The next task is to require asylum-seekers to register and be sorted as close to home as possible, probably Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan. Ideally those who travelled by boat to Europe would be sent back to a camp in one of those three countries—to prove that they had just wasted their precious savings paying people-traffickers to take them on a pointless journey. But that would meet legal and political objections, partly because of Turkey’s human-rights record (see our special report this week). So, there should also be processing camps in the first EU country they reach, probably Greece or Italy.

The cost of this should fall on the whole EU, since the aim is to establish control over its external borders. Dealmaking is possible. In exchange for hosting large refugee hotspots and camps on its soil, Greece should get help with its debt and budgets which it has long sought to ease its economic crisis.

Refugees will fall in with this scheme (rather than cross the EU illegally) only if they are confident that genuine applications will be accepted within a reasonable time. So the EU needs to spend what it takes to sort through their claims swiftly. And member states ought to agree to accept substantial numbers of bona fide asylum claimants. Some refugees may prefer Germany to, say, France—and there is little to stop them crossing borders once they are inside the Schengen area. But, if they are properly looked after, most will stay put.

 

The crisis needs a bigger resettlement programme than the one run by the UN’s refugee agency, which has only 160,000 spaces. Countries outside the EU, including the Gulf states, can play their part. Priority should go to refugees who apply for asylum while still in Turkey, Jordan or Lebanon—to reduce the incentive for refugees to board leaky boats to Greece.

 

Ineligible migrants will have to be refused entry or deported. This will be legally difficult, and it is impossible to repatriate people to some countries, such as Syria. But if the system is not to be overwhelmed or seen as unfair and illegitimate by EU citizens, the sorting must be efficient and enforceable. EU governments should sign and implement readmission agreements allowing rejected migrants to be sent home quickly to, say, Morocco or Algeria. If such agreements are impossible (or if, as with Pakistan, governments fail to honour them), the prospect of waiting indefinitely in Greece will make economic migrants who want to reach Germany hesitate before coming.

 

Once these measures are in place, it will become possible to take the most controversial step: halting the uncontrolled migrant flow across Greece’s northern border with Macedonia. It has become clear over the past five months that Europe cannot gain control over the numbers or the nature of the migrant stream while border officials wave asylum-seekers through and bid them safe travel to northern Europe.

Since the start of the refugee crisis, we have argued that Europe should welcome persecuted people and carefully manage their entry into European society. Our views have not changed. Countries have a moral and legal duty to provide sanctuary to those who flee grave danger. That approach is disruptive in the short term, but in the medium term, so long as they are allowed to work, refugees assimilate and more than pay for themselves. By contrast, the chaos of recent months shows what happens when politicians fail to take a pan-European approach to what is clearly a pan-European problem. The plan we outline would require a big chunk of cash and a lot of testy negotiations. But it is in every country’s interest to help—because all of them would be worse off if the EU lapses into a xenophobic free-for-all.

 

There is an encouraging precedent, too. When more than 1m “boat people” fled Vietnam after the communists took over in 1975, they went initially to refugee camps in Hong Kong and other parts of Asia before being sent to America, Europe, Australia and wherever else would take them. They arrived with nothing but adapted astonishingly fast: the median household income for Vietnamese-Americans, for example, is now above the national average. No one in America now frets that the boat people will not fit in.

 

 

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Guest pelmetman
Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 2:40 PM

 

I can read the article and I am not a subscriber. However Ill copy and paste the content at the end of this post if you or anyone else is interested. Apologies in advance if it clutters up the thread as its quite long.

 

 

pelmetman - 2017-03-19 2:15 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 1:10 PM

 

The EU and key countries outside the EU need to work together and invest heavily to make sure that genuine refugees get help and preferably end up in the likes of Lebanon, Turkey or Jordan rather than Europe and that Economic Migrants are deterred at source.

 

 

Yeah......like that's gonna happen (lol) ......

 

You really do live on a different planet Barry ;-) ........

 

 

Why? Read the article, there is a lot of sense in it. Of course it needs more money and unity. How else do you propose we resolve it? These people are going to come here no matter whether you like it or not so it needs an international solution. If we had unity and an international solution then perhaps we wouldn't be in this mess. Washing your hands of it and saying its not our problem just makes it worse. What would you do? Push them back out to sea? Torpedo the little rubber boats? I really want to know what your answer is.

 

Anyway. The text of the article is below.

 

 

 

REFUGEES are reasonable people in desperate circumstances. Life for many of the 1m-odd asylum-seekers who have fled Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and other war-torn countries for Europe in the past year has become intolerable. Europe is peaceful, rich and accessible. Most people would rather not abandon their homes and start again among strangers. But when the alternative is the threat of death from barrel-bombs and sabre-wielding fanatics, they make the only rational choice.

 

The flow of refugees would have been manageable if European Union countries had worked together, as Angela Merkel, Germany’s chancellor, has always wished (and The Economist urged). Instead Germany and Sweden have been left to cope alone. Today their willingness to do so is exhausted. Unless Europe soon restores order, political pressure will force Mrs Merkel to clamp down unilaterally, starting a wave of border closures (see article). More worrying, the migrant crisis is feeding xenophobia and political populism. The divisive forces of right-wing nationalism have already taken hold in parts of eastern Europe. If they spread westward into Germany, France and Italy then the EU could tear itself apart.

 

The situation today is a mess. Refugees have been free to sail across the Mediterranean, register and make for whichever country seems most welcoming. Many economic migrants with no claim to asylum have found a place in the queue by lying about where they came from. This free-for-all must be replaced by a system in which asylum applicants are screened when they first reach Europe’s borders—or better still, before they cross the Mediterranean. Those who are ineligible for asylum should be sent back without delay; those likely to qualify should be sent on to countries willing to accept them.

Order on the border

 

Creating a well-regulated system requires three steps. The first is to curb the “push factors” that encourage people to risk the crossing, by beefing up aid to refugees, particularly to the victims of the civil wars in Syria and Iraq, including the huge number who have fled to neighbouring countries such as Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon. The second is to review asylum claims while refugees are still in centres in the Middle East or in the “hotspots” (mainly in Greece and Italy), where they go when they first arrive in the EU. The third element is to insist that asylum-seekers stay put until their applications are processed, rather than jumping on a train to Germany.

 

All these steps are fraught with difficulty. Consider the “push factors” first. The prospect of ending Syria’s civil war is as remote as ever: peace talks in Geneva this week were suspended without progress. But the EU could do a lot more to help refugees and their host countries. Scandalously, aid for Syrians was cut in 2015 even as the war grew bloodier: aid agencies got a bit more than half of what they needed last year, according to the UN. Donors at a conference on Syria in London this week were asked for $9 billion for 2016—about as much as Germans spend on chocolate every year. Far more is needed and will be needed every year for several years.

 

Europe’s money should be used not only to feed and house refugees but also to coax host countries into letting them work. For the first four years of the conflict Syrians were denied work permits in Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon. Recently Turkey has begun to grant them. Donors should press Jordan and Lebanon to follow. European cash could help teach the 400,000 refugee children in Turkey who have no classes.

 

Sometimes the answer is no

 

The next task is to require asylum-seekers to register and be sorted as close to home as possible, probably Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan. Ideally those who travelled by boat to Europe would be sent back to a camp in one of those three countries—to prove that they had just wasted their precious savings paying people-traffickers to take them on a pointless journey. But that would meet legal and political objections, partly because of Turkey’s human-rights record (see our special report this week). So, there should also be processing camps in the first EU country they reach, probably Greece or Italy.

The cost of this should fall on the whole EU, since the aim is to establish control over its external borders. Dealmaking is possible. In exchange for hosting large refugee hotspots and camps on its soil, Greece should get help with its debt and budgets which it has long sought to ease its economic crisis.

Refugees will fall in with this scheme (rather than cross the EU illegally) only if they are confident that genuine applications will be accepted within a reasonable time. So the EU needs to spend what it takes to sort through their claims swiftly. And member states ought to agree to accept substantial numbers of bona fide asylum claimants. Some refugees may prefer Germany to, say, France—and there is little to stop them crossing borders once they are inside the Schengen area. But, if they are properly looked after, most will stay put.

 

The crisis needs a bigger resettlement programme than the one run by the UN’s refugee agency, which has only 160,000 spaces. Countries outside the EU, including the Gulf states, can play their part. Priority should go to refugees who apply for asylum while still in Turkey, Jordan or Lebanon—to reduce the incentive for refugees to board leaky boats to Greece.

 

Ineligible migrants will have to be refused entry or deported. This will be legally difficult, and it is impossible to repatriate people to some countries, such as Syria. But if the system is not to be overwhelmed or seen as unfair and illegitimate by EU citizens, the sorting must be efficient and enforceable. EU governments should sign and implement readmission agreements allowing rejected migrants to be sent home quickly to, say, Morocco or Algeria. If such agreements are impossible (or if, as with Pakistan, governments fail to honour them), the prospect of waiting indefinitely in Greece will make economic migrants who want to reach Germany hesitate before coming.

 

Once these measures are in place, it will become possible to take the most controversial step: halting the uncontrolled migrant flow across Greece’s northern border with Macedonia. It has become clear over the past five months that Europe cannot gain control over the numbers or the nature of the migrant stream while border officials wave asylum-seekers through and bid them safe travel to northern Europe.

Since the start of the refugee crisis, we have argued that Europe should welcome persecuted people and carefully manage their entry into European society. Our views have not changed. Countries have a moral and legal duty to provide sanctuary to those who flee grave danger. That approach is disruptive in the short term, but in the medium term, so long as they are allowed to work, refugees assimilate and more than pay for themselves. By contrast, the chaos of recent months shows what happens when politicians fail to take a pan-European approach to what is clearly a pan-European problem. The plan we outline would require a big chunk of cash and a lot of testy negotiations. But it is in every country’s interest to help—because all of them would be worse off if the EU lapses into a xenophobic free-for-all.

 

There is an encouraging precedent, too. When more than 1m “boat people” fled Vietnam after the communists took over in 1975, they went initially to refugee camps in Hong Kong and other parts of Asia before being sent to America, Europe, Australia and wherever else would take them. They arrived with nothing but adapted astonishingly fast: the median household income for Vietnamese-Americans, for example, is now above the national average. No one in America now frets that the boat people will not fit in.

 

 

Question.......

 

When has the EU ever managed to do anything collectively about illegal migrants/refugees? >:-) .......

 

.......and do those who preach we should do more, actually allow these migrants/refugees to be dumped in their backyards? *-) .........

 

No doubt you've got a spare bedroom or 2 Barry? ;-) ........

 

 

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Question.......

 

When has the EU ever managed to do anything collectively about illegal migrants/refugees? .......

 

.......and do those who preach we should do more, actually allow these migrants/refugees to be dumped in their backyards? .........

 

No doubt you've got a spare bedroom or 2 Barry?

 

Well now is their chance isnt it? Who else is going to do something about it? They are in our back yard, they are in Europe. As I have said before I wouldnt have a problem with genuine refugees coming here. We have a history of looking after them. I would like to think if the tables were turned and my family were fleeing trying to find safety that they would be welcome and looked after in any strange country they turn up in, not abused, kidnapped or beaten up. If it were your young grandchildren wandering around Europe on their own would you not want the same?

 

Ill throw the question back at you and anyone else. What is the solution?

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Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 4:22 PM

 

Question.......

 

When has the EU ever managed to do anything collectively about illegal migrants/refugees? .......

 

.......and do those who preach we should do more, actually allow these migrants/refugees to be dumped in their backyards? .........

 

No doubt you've got a spare bedroom or 2 Barry?

 

Well now is their chance isnt it? Who else is going to do something about it? They are in our back yard, they are in Europe. As I have said before I wouldnt have a problem with genuine refugees coming here. We have a history of looking after them. I would like to think if the tables were turned and my family were fleeing trying to find safety that they would be welcome and looked after in any strange country they turn up in, not abused, kidnapped or beaten up. If it were your young grandchildren wandering around Europe on their own would you not want the same?

 

Ill throw the question back at you and anyone else. What is the solution?

 

Maybe we can help some of the many Christians fleeing their homes after suffering at the hands of those who follow the same religion as most of those refugees you'd gladly house in your village

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Guest pelmetman
Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 4:22 PM

 

Question.......

 

When has the EU ever managed to do anything collectively about illegal migrants/refugees? .......

 

.......and do those who preach we should do more, actually allow these migrants/refugees to be dumped in their backyards? .........

 

No doubt you've got a spare bedroom or 2 Barry?

 

Well now is their chance isnt it? Who else is going to do something about it? They are in our back yard, they are in Europe. As I have said before I wouldnt have a problem with genuine refugees coming here. We have a history of looking after them. I would like to think if the tables were turned and my family were fleeing trying to find safety that they would be welcome and looked after in any strange country they turn up in, not abused, kidnapped or beaten up. If it were your young grandchildren wandering around Europe on their own would you not want the same?

 

Ill throw the question back at you and anyone else. What is the solution?

 

Refugee camps run by the united nations .........and those of fighting ages should go and fight for their country......Just like our grand parents did :-| ........

 

 

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The thought that keeps making it's way into my mind is Good Old Ike's comment about Lies - Damned Lies - and Statistics, it still seems so appropriate today.

 

Perhaps we need to start to think about the immigration problem as being in three parts, the influx of migrants from the EU, most of whom are here as economic migrants, willing to work and live peacefully within our society, and those immigrants who come from the old Empire or Commonwealth who are allowed to come here and bring dependents because they were once classed as British citizens, of whom a significant proportion are Muslims who do not wish to be intigrated into our society, and finally those who come here as refugees, fleeing from harm in their own country and to whom we have over centuriess given refuge, and currently these are mainly people from countries that have a significant Muslim population, and where the fighting is mainly Muslim Extremists fighting anyone who stands in their way.

 

The European migrant problem will be resolved, one way or another, over the next two years, and let us not forget that long before we had a European Union with it's open borders, we had people from all over Europe living and working in the UK, and plenty of people from the UK living and working all over Europe.

 

The Immigration from the Commonwealth countries is part of UK law. Your favourite political party, regardless of it's inclination, could change those laws next time they are in power, if they had the will, but I do not imagine that anyone other than UKip would be tempted to court disaster in that way, so whichever way you voted in the past you supported the party that made no suggestion that the status of Commonwealth Immigrants should change, ie you want them to continue to come to the UK, and from these posting it is this group that many contributors worry about most.

 

The fate of refugees is written into International Law. They go to the first country that can provide safety and register their claim with that country. From that point on the international community will look after them, provide a place of safety for as long as it takes, and where applicable take up their case in the UN. There is no provision in International Law that says you can travel halfway round the world, pay money to people traffickers, and try to force your way into a soveriegn country because you like the look of their social security setup, or go to the country where your cousin is doing nicely, or because you think you might get away with setting up your own extremist religious community.

 

It used to be that loud mouthed, vulgar, insensitive people like me would be exhorted not to mention the War, in case sensitive people from places like Germany became upset, because the descendants of the people who dropped a string of bombs on a row of houses less that 50 yards from the home where I, as a child, was sleeping, should not be held to account for what had been done in their name. Now those same German people have got the Pan European German Empire that we fought so hard in two wars to prevent, and once again it is Britain who stands alone.

 

But now we must go out of our way to avoid saying anything that might upset the Muslim community. There are certainly places in the UK where it is unwise to go if you're not a Muslim, and my country is becoming more like a foriegn country to me, and I am not allowed to complain.

 

A lot of the problems that we face are tied up with problemss caused by the fight for world domination by each of the various interpretations of Islam. We cannot, and should not try to fight our way out of this, but we should try to bring all these various factions together and encourage them to stop fighting each other, and anyone else who they think is standing in their way. We have finally more or less achieved this with the Christian communities, with the exception of Northern Ireland, and we need a similar accord between the Muslim Communities.

 

AGD

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The thought that keeps making it's way into my mind is Good Old Ike's comment about Lies - Damned Lies - and Statistics, it still seems so appropriate today.

 

Perhaps we need to start to think about the immigration problem as being in three parts, the influx of migrants from the EU, most of whom are here as economic migrants, willing to work and live peacefully within our society, and those immigrants who come from the old Empire or Commonwealth who are allowed to come here and bring dependents because they were once classed as British citizens, of whom a significant proportion are Muslims who do not wish to be intigrated into our society, and finally those who come here as refugees, fleeing from harm in their own country and to whom we have over centuriess given refuge, and currently these are mainly people from countries that have a significant Muslim population, and where the fighting is mainly Muslim Extremists fighting anyone who stands in their way.

 

The European migrant problem will be resolved, one way or another, over the next two years, and let us not forget that long before we had a European Union with it's open borders, we had people from all over Europe living and working in the UK, and plenty of people from the UK living and working all over Europe.

 

The Immigration from the Commonwealth countries is part of UK law. Your favourite political party, regardless of it's inclination, could change those laws next time they are in power, if they had the will, but I do not imagine that anyone other than UKip would be tempted to court disaster in that way, so whichever way you voted in the past you supported the party that made no suggestion that the status of Commonwealth Immigrants should change, ie you want them to continue to come to the UK, and from these posting it is this group that many contributors worry about most.

 

The fate of refugees is written into International Law. They go to the first country that can provide safety and register their claim with that country. From that point on the international community will look after them, provide a place of safety for as long as it takes, and where applicable take up their case in the UN. There is no provision in International Law that says you can travel halfway round the world, pay money to people traffickers, and try to force your way into a soveriegn country because you like the look of their social security setup, or go to the country where your cousin is doing nicely, or because you think you might get away with setting up your own extremist religious community.

 

It used to be that loud mouthed, vulgar, insensitive people like me would be exhorted not to mention the War, in case sensitive people from places like Germany became upset, because the descendants of the people who dropped a string of bombs on a row of houses less that 50 yards from the home where I, as a child, was sleeping, should not be held to account for what had been done in their name. Now those same German people have got the Pan European German Empire that we fought so hard in two wars to prevent, and once again it is Britain who stands alone.

 

But now we must go out of our way to avoid saying anything that might upset the Muslim community. There are certainly places in the UK where it is unwise to go if you're not a Muslim, and my country is becoming more like a foriegn country to me, and I am not allowed to complain.

 

A lot of the problems that we face are tied up with problemss caused by the fight for world domination by each of the various interpretations of Islam. We cannot, and should not try to fight our way out of this, but we should try to bring all these various factions together and encourage them to stop fighting each other, and anyone else who they think is standing in their way. We have finally more or less achieved this with the Christian communities, with the exception of Northern Ireland, and we need a similar accord between the Muslim Communities.

 

AGD

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pelmetman - 2017-03-19 4:43 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 4:22 PM

 

Question.......

 

When has the EU ever managed to do anything collectively about illegal migrants/refugees? .......

 

.......and do those who preach we should do more, actually allow these migrants/refugees to be dumped in their backyards? .........

 

No doubt you've got a spare bedroom or 2 Barry?

 

Well now is their chance isnt it? Who else is going to do something about it? They are in our back yard, they are in Europe. As I have said before I wouldnt have a problem with genuine refugees coming here. We have a history of looking after them. I would like to think if the tables were turned and my family were fleeing trying to find safety that they would be welcome and looked after in any strange country they turn up in, not abused, kidnapped or beaten up. If it were your young grandchildren wandering around Europe on their own would you not want the same?

 

Ill throw the question back at you and anyone else. What is the solution?

 

Refugee camps run by the united nations .........and those of fighting ages should go and fight for their country......Just like our grand parents did :-| ........

 

 

Well at least your proffered an answer although you had to spoil it with your second statement, a blatant attempt yet again to make out those fleeing terror and people trying to kill them from all sides are cowards.

 

Yes proper facilities in neighbouring countries would be a start and the massive majority have gone to those very countries but since its become a European problem we now need a European solution. Many are not stopping in Turkey or other countries for a variety of reasons. They cant work, they are treated badly, they are not safe and many other reasons. To make a perilous journey across the Mediterranean with children for example must mean that for many the current refugee system closer to home is not working (For them at least).

 

It needs more agreement within Europe and more funding to those countries that you propose take our problem away from us. Did you read the long article. Makes a lot of sense. I think we can all agree that nobody actually wants migrants / refugees flooding into Europe but the fact is they are so we need to all do our bit to help and find a solution and that doesnt mean passing the buck and washing your hands of it. That approach wont help anyone.

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