StuartO Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I have always wondered why there are so many Polish (and Lithuanian, and Estonian etc) lightweight (by commercial standards) trucks when the same dirver could carry far more load in a bigger one. During our recent French tour we came across literally hundreds of them (or at least one hundred) parked up at lunchtime on a Rest Area one Sunday - almost as if they were having a Light Truckers' Convention. The answer is that with 3.5 ton trucks they don't have a tacho, so they can drive without stopping, as drivers of bigger trucks are required to do. These guys will do London to Warsaw in 16 hours and then back again! Maybe with two drivers they just keep going continously. So beware Eastern Europeans 3.5 ton vans and pickups, the driver might just be a little pooped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 StuartO - 2017-06-10 1:49 PM the same dirver could carry far more load in a bigger one. > The ones I have seen don't have far more load to carry - much of it is personal effects, or small deliveries to Polish foodshops. If they had a full lorryload it wouldn't be economc to put it on vans just to get around the driving hours. But they may well be driving too long, as you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Hhmm.....is this a "lets bash the East Europeans"? I can't say i see "many PL/LT/EST plated light vans", certainly not in UK. HGV "truckers" yes, but also Dutch, Belgium, German, Spanish, French etc......or are they in the ok bracket? However on leaving UK waiting for the Ferry at Dover there was a German registered mini-bus behind me.....but all the guys were speaking Polish. Turned out they'd just driven all the way from Germany for FIVE days work on contract......in Scotland. Yes their employer paid the fuel, van and expenses, but i couldn't help wonder how many Brits without work would drive to Germany or Poland for a weeks work? None. Lot's of Russian trucks where i am now as it's the main route from Russia to European countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Most are 'On Time' deliveries to either the car plants or the car plant suppliers, and as you say...no tacho's, but they still should be working to EU work directive rules. Now tell me how many are? 8-) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 nowtelse2do - 2017-06-10 6:04 PM Most are 'On Time' deliveries to either the car plants or the car plant suppliers, and as you say...no tacho's, but they still should be working to EU work directive rules. Now tell me how many are? 8-) Dave EU WTD applies to all of us tho' UK has it's own WTR (Work time Regulation).Both have a max of 48hr per wk. NHS Junior doctors and nurses regularly exceed that amount yet nobody ever questions the reasons why. No 'tachos' on them either. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-06-10 7:15 PM nowtelse2do - 2017-06-10 6:04 PM Most are 'On Time' deliveries to either the car plants or the car plant suppliers, and as you say...no tacho's, but they still should be working to EU work directive rules. Now tell me how many are? 8-) Dave EU WTD applies to all of us tho' UK has it's own WTR (Work time Regulation).Both have a max of 48hr per wk. NHS Junior doctors and nurses regularly exceed that amount yet nobody ever questions the reasons why. No 'tachos' on them either. ;-) They can opt-out Paul but there are still rules to follow. Mobile workers come under diffrent rules I think. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 By the way my information came from a Polish HGV driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 nowtelse2do - 2017-06-10 8:00 PM Bulletguy - 2017-06-10 7:15 PM nowtelse2do - 2017-06-10 6:04 PM Most are 'On Time' deliveries to either the car plants or the car plant suppliers, and as you say...no tacho's, but they still should be working to EU work directive rules. Now tell me how many are? 8-) Dave EU WTD applies to all of us tho' UK has it's own WTR (Work time Regulation).Both have a max of 48hr per wk. NHS Junior doctors and nurses regularly exceed that amount yet nobody ever questions the reasons why. No 'tachos' on them either. ;-) They can opt-out Paul but there are still rules to follow. Mobile workers come under diffrent rules I think. Dave Yes i know and i've never been comfortable with that. My first trade on leaving school was Hotel catering which was (no doubt still is) notorious for excessive hours. My average work week used to be 69 hours. StuartO - 2017-06-11 7:25 AM By the way my information came from a Polish HGV driver. All HGV drivers are (or should be) well aware of the laws. Part of the problem is employers setting unrealistic 'targets' for drivers and not just HGV.....as you initially mentioned LGV's or non-tacho'd, look at courier deliveries many of which are expected to provide their own vehicle. I've had lots of items delivered by private car owners. A new washing machine i bought in January was delivered by a guy on his own in a LGV panel van. He had to install and ensure the machine ran before leaving, and his quota of 'drops' was ridiculous. Machine was bought online from Co-op electrical so not a disreputable business....but as with most, the delivery work will be sub-contracted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 StuartO - 2017-06-11 7:25 AM By the way my information came from a Polish HGV driver. Forgot to add to that post......when i overnighted on a service area in Germany there were three Bulgarian trucks and a Polish alongside me, though the PL truck driver was a young Ukrainian chap. It was a Friday evening and none were moving until Monday....they had done their allotted hours. Ukraine guy couldn't speak much English but was a very friendly guy and proud to show me photo's of his family home, wife and newly born child. His father was an HGV mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 And I wasn't making any sort of political point by starting this thread - I was simply explaining what had hitherto been a mystery to me. It was freedom from the constraints of a tacho which was the main factor in the commercial value of using all these 3.5 ton load carriers. Given the commercial pressures which cascade down on to the drivers who are employed (or rather not employed, merely given freelance opportunities to drive these vehicle for many, many hours on end) at what point do we see a need for legislative control, for safety reasons? The answer to that is presumably the point when it becomes clear that there are excess crashes and excess piblic injuries from this activity - and I'm not aware that there is any such information so far. Is anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 StuartO - 2017-06-11 12:12 PM And I wasn't making any sort of political point by starting this thread - I was simply explaining what had hitherto been a mystery to me. It was freedom from the constraints of a tacho which was the main factor in the commercial value of using all these 3.5 ton load carriers. Given the commercial pressures which cascade down on to the drivers who are employed (or rather not employed, merely given freelance opportunities to drive these vehicle for many, many hours on end) at what point do we see a need for legislative control, for safety reasons? Excluding HGV (as they are bound under strict law), where is the legislation to stop anyone working over 48hrs a week? As Dave rightly pointed out, employers can choose to opt out of UK's WTR. I don't think it right but they are allowed to. Courier drivers seem pretty much a law unto themselves yet are driving "commercially". The guy who delivered my washing machine told me his average work week was 60hrs. How safe are they toward the end of a days work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 It's probably a bit controversial, but in my experience as a chauffeur along with most of my colleagues, I regularly worked very long hours, and whilst I wouldn't make any claims for the quality of my driving, I never got tired to the extent that I started to feel that my ability to drive was impaired, and as I was driving around with some very expensive people who would not hesitate to complain if they thought their precious life was in danger, they must have felt that they were safe in my car, because for many of them I was the number one choice of driver over many years. It helps to have a very relaxed style of driving, and it helps if you can remain calm and unemotional whilst you are driving. It helps if you are comfortable driving the vehicle, and confident of your ability to cope with whatever comes along, and I find it essential to take a break every two hours, whether you need it or not, take toilet breaks and refreshment breaks in good time. If I stopped for more than 20 minutes at any time of the day I would tip the seat back, set the timer for not more than twenty minute, and take a power nap, and I would always allow enough time for my journey to be able to do these things.When we travel in the van and we stop for lunch, CG will prepare the food, and I will stretch out on the settee for a power nap. It works for me, and I believe that some of my former colleagues also found ways to cope with long runs., so it is quite likely that most of these light van drivers have the same ability, and your fears for yours and their safety are unfounded. If this employment opportunity had been around in the early seventies when my first marriage broke up I would have taken their way of life in a heartbeat. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I'll blow my own trumpet here but I hope it will help others. I have driven in the region of two and a half million miles and have had one offence against me, driving 38mph on a dual carridgeway that was restricted to 30mph at night with no other traffic around. No excuses, my fault. This is my advice and it works. When you start to scratch/pull your ear lobe, scratching your head every couple of minutes, rubbing the end of your nose, then you are getting into the danger zone of falling asleep. You need to stop. AG's point is a very good one but 20min is not enough IMO. I need a power sleep of at least 1hr. That 1hr will see you through another 6-8 hours. When you wake and if possible, have a cool face wash a drink and definatly a pee. doesn't matter in which order (lol). Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 nowtelse2do - 2017-06-11 7:31 PM When you wake and if possible, have a cool face wash a drink and definatly a pee. doesn't matter in which order (lol). Dave If its a warm face wash you know you got the order wrong 8-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-06-11 7:41 PM nowtelse2do - 2017-06-11 7:31 PM When you wake and if possible, have a cool face wash a drink and definatly a pee. doesn't matter in which order (lol). Dave If its a warm face wash you know you got the order wrong 8-) ........ I won't mention anything about a warm drink then :D Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wortho Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 I was also surprised how many trucks were parked up on a Sunday when travelling through France and Germany and later learned they were not allowed on the road on Sundays, with some exceptions for those with refrigerated goods. I found this link that explains the restrictions by country https://www.freightlink.co.uk/knowledge/faq/can-i-drive-europe-weekends-or-bank-holidays Good day to travel on I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Whilst there are legitimate concerns about safety I am inclined to salute these drivers for their unremitting desire to provide for their families and the degree to which they are prepared to sacrifice their own comfort and health to do so. If there are stats that indicate that they are a menace to other road users then of course there needs to be some better regulation. We stopped over at the service station just inside the Luxembourg border in March this year and beside us was one of these guys with his trousers, newly washed, hanging from the passenger window to dry. It struck me that a lonely and hard life was his lot. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Wortho - 2017-08-25 6:17 PM I was also surprised how many trucks were parked up on a Sunday when travelling through France and Germany and later learned they were not allowed on the road on Sundays, with some exceptions for those with refrigerated goods. I found this link that explains the restrictions by country https://www.freightlink.co.uk/knowledge/faq/can-i-drive-europe-weekends-or-bank-holidays. Good day to travel on I suppose. They provide excellent facilities too and in Germany parking off the Autobahn is unrestricted and free. You can stay on one as long as you like. Those with services are open 24/7 and food costs are not extortionate either. Here is one i've overnighted at many times on the A2 near Helmstedt. Note how beautifully laid out it is too with plenty of trees screening. http://imgur.com/cEUbglO There are many rest stops like that throughout Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-08-25 7:27 PM Whilst there are legitimate concerns about safety I am inclined to salute these drivers for their unremitting desire to provide for their families and the degree to which they are prepared to sacrifice their own comfort and health to do so. If there are stats that indicate that they are a menace to other road users then of course there needs to be some better regulation. We stopped over at the service station just inside the Luxembourg border in March this year and beside us was one of these guys with his trousers, newly washed, hanging from the passenger window to dry. It struck me that a lonely and hard life was his lot. Veronica Very true Veronica. The Ukrainian driver i mentioned up thread was a young chap, married with his first child and took work wherever he could. At the time he was driving a Polish registered truck. Through photos on his phone he was able to explain to me his father worked as an HGV mechanic and lived 'on the job', with just enough land to take three tractor units. Driving 'continental' can be lonely to a point but they are all like a band of brothers really irrespective of nationality. They stick together. I am forever proud of Dave Duncan, a British truck driver who raised almost £200k for the family of the Polish truck driver murdered in the Berlin attack. Humanity triumphs over hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-08-25 7:27 PM Whilst there are legitimate concerns about safety I am inclined to salute these drivers for their unremitting desire to provide for their families and the degree to which they are prepared to sacrifice their own comfort and health to do so. If there are stats that indicate that they are a menace to other road users then of course there needs to be some better regulation. We stopped over at the service station just inside the Luxembourg border in March this year and beside us was one of these guys with his trousers, newly washed, hanging from the passenger window to dry. It struck me that a lonely and hard life was his lot. Veronica So where you hang your washing is indicative of your work ethic? 8-) ........ Blimey I used to crash out my dhobying every night back in my matelote days :D ...... Then I got married...... and a washing machine on tick *-) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 I've been out of the game now for nearly 10yr, so not up to speed on the new laws regarding time away when on the road. My son is a hgv driver and he told me that if he was away for over 2 weeks he must spend some time away from his truck during the week after that, meaning a hotel or a b&b break with a receipt to prove. I don't think people realise what some of these foreign drivers have to go through. Many of them are away from home for weeks at a time, up to 5 or 6 traveling all over Europe having to know all the rules and trying to speak a few different languages, if I have language problems abroad, I look for a Dutch man or woman, they seem to know every language going. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-08-25 11:25 PM Violet1956 - 2017-08-25 7:27 PM Whilst there are legitimate concerns about safety I am inclined to salute these drivers for their unremitting desire to provide for their families and the degree to which they are prepared to sacrifice their own comfort and health to do so. If there are stats that indicate that they are a menace to other road users then of course there needs to be some better regulation. We stopped over at the service station just inside the Luxembourg border in March this year and beside us was one of these guys with his trousers, newly washed, hanging from the passenger window to dry. It struck me that a lonely and hard life was his lot. Veronica So where you hang your washing is indicative of your work ethic? 8-) ........ Was it spending too many years “at sea” that made you so unique in your reasoning Dave? ;-) Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-08-26 9:17 AM..................Was it spending too many years “at sea” that made you so unique in your reasoning Dave? ;-) Veronica :-D I blame the albatross! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-08-26 9:17 AM pelmetman - 2017-08-25 11:25 PM Violet1956 - 2017-08-25 7:27 PM Whilst there are legitimate concerns about safety I am inclined to salute these drivers for their unremitting desire to provide for their families and the degree to which they are prepared to sacrifice their own comfort and health to do so. If there are stats that indicate that they are a menace to other road users then of course there needs to be some better regulation. We stopped over at the service station just inside the Luxembourg border in March this year and beside us was one of these guys with his trousers, newly washed, hanging from the passenger window to dry. It struck me that a lonely and hard life was his lot. Veronica So where you hang your washing is indicative of your work ethic? 8-) ........ Was it spending too many years “at sea” that made you so unique in your reasoning Dave? ;-) Veronica Some of us were thinking outside the box before they invented the box ;-) ......... Political correctness is just another BOX *-) ....... With two "LL's" and a "O" missing >:-) ....... (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-08-26 1:00 PM Violet1956 - 2017-08-26 9:17 AM..................Was it spending too many years “at sea” that made you so unique in your reasoning Dave? ;-) Veronica :-D I blame the albatross! The difference between me and the Albatross...... Brian ;-) ....... They tend to follow humans and swallow their sh*t.......Where as I don't >:-) ....... https://www.britannica.com/animal/albatross Like other oceanic birds, albatrosses drink seawater. Although they normally live on squid, they also are seen to accompany ships to feed on*** garbage***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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