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Young Drivers


howie

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Raising the age limit before you can qualify for a driving licence is doing the rounds again. A possible alternative would be imposing a three year probationary period for young and new drivers, where any convictions or mishaps would automatically see them having to retry their driving test.

This would continue until three years of trouble free motoring was completed and normal legislation takes over.

Hopefully this would have a steadying influence, especially with younger drivers, and after three years, a better understanding of what driving is all about and the responsibility that goes with it.

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It always struck me as odd that you could drive a car before you could (legally) consume alcohol! By the same count you cannot fight for your country nor vote until you are 18. You must be 21 to be able to take your H.G.V (sorry! L.C.V.) test. Let us compromise on those varying ages and raise the age for both motor cars and motor cycles to 19 before you can apply for a 'provisional' licence. Amazing what two years 'growing up' can do to a chap (or girl). I do not think that compulsory 'banning' of the elderly is politically popular bearing in mind the strenght of the'grey vote'!!

Regards, Mike.

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Certainly something needs to be done. The French have a similar system where a new driver has a speed plate on the car and must not exceed this. Or at least this was the system a few years ago - I assume it is still the same.

 

Insurance costs were thought to be the "self-policing" answer in that if younger drivers were the problem then ever increasing insurance costs would drive the bad drivers off the road.

 

Sadly the reality is that that mind set of some is such that they just drive without insurance.

 

And they drive like they are in a computer game - it probably comes as a bit of shock to them that the car they have just totalled does not magically get up, straighten itself out and put itself back on the road ready for the next game.

 

I do wonder if part of the problem is that a 17/18/19 year old has more experience of driving via a Nintendo/PS2/whatever, than the experience required to pass the driving test.

 

(?)

 

Any thoughts ?

 

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Hi,

 

Preparing to be a motorist should be a life-skill taught at school. In the 1950s we used to congregate in the South Croydon Coffee Bar, and quiz each other on the Highway Code...but it was easier to learn it parrot fashion in those days

 

There should be certain cars approved for novice drives, and they should not be allowed to drive anything else until they ain't novices any more. Maybe the same cars should be approved for nervous wrinklies too.

 

In the 1950 and probably later, no insurance meant a 12 month ban. Driving while banned meant six months pleasuring Her Majesty. No arguments. All my mates knew the penalties..and made sure they were insured, tho anything else was socially acceptable.

 

If insurance is too high, youngsters drive without insurance, which puts premiums up, so even more drive without insurance. Surely there is a balance point where getting some money from a novice is better than getting no money?

 

When I was in Malaya (1960s), you couldn't make an insurance claim without making a police report first. So lots of accidents were never reported or claimed for.

 

602

 

How many of us would drive if disqualified? Many do. But they have no insurance. Wouldn't it be better if they COULD be insured?

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As with behaviour generally, I think parents can have a significant influence on forming their children's attitude to driving.

 

What example has been set throughout 17 years' of sitting with mum and dad and observing their driving? Did they speed? Where they considerate, or not? Aggressive or tolerant? Did they involve their children in the driving process by playing road-sign games, hazard perception quizes, rationally discussing and analysing incidents and errors? Was it made clear that driving is a licenced privilege and not a right?

 

I also think that the learner driving stage can be enhanced by parental involvement. From the second lesson onwards I went out with my children almost daily with steadily increases in length, duration and complexity of journey, building up to cross-country routes with a wide mix of road and traffic types including at night and in adverse weather. Before they took their tests they each had several thousands' of miles of experience.

 

After they had passed their tests I conducted weekly check rides for the first month and monthly check rides for 6 months. These included motorway and night driving and highway code quizes.

 

Although I bought each child a car and paid for its running costs I made both of them do an oil change and basic service in addition to the routine servicing done by the dealer. This was to ensure a little mechanical empathy and to better understand how cars' systems work.

 

It worked for us but obviously everyone is different. If parents cannot get so involved or their children won't let them, then perhaps mandatory extended training for youngsters is an alternative to help them be safer drivers.

 

Bob

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We have a lot of friends out in Turkey, and to get a licence out there, young and old potential drivers have to attend a government run driving school.

This consists of exams in, road laws,repairs of vehicles/maintainance, first aid and something similar to our harzard perception exam.

They then do a 2 week intensive driving course with a test at the end of it.

Only after passing this test, can they apply to the police for a licence.

If I remember rightly, the police can still delay or refuse to issue a licence if the candidate is deemed unsuitable.

 

In my opinion, raising the age here will only push up the amount of illegal drivers on the road.

There is already a 2 year probation period for new drivers, 6 points mean they lose their licence and have to re-sit the test.

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The Tow test is already here, - see - http://www.learners.co.uk/towing/towing-txt0.htm

 

As for older drivers - yes I do believe that from the age of 70 (earlier if medical problems indicate a possible problem) a test should be undertaken every five years with the option of every year for those who are marginal.

 

In thirty years of driving (not a statistically relevant trial I grant you - but it has helped me form an opinion) I have been hit by other drivers 6 times.

 

Twice by van-drivers (probably best you don't start me on that issue) who both rammed me from behind whilst looking at a map or details of where they were off to next and four times by elderly drivers who lost control.

 

The first was at night when I was stationary on a roundabout. This elderly guy just drove into me from the side. His excuse "Your car is too darker colour - I could not see it!"

 

The second was as I was returning to my car with my children and this old lady was "touch parking" up against my car and the car in front. considerable damage was done but she pleaded with me not to report it to my insurance company because she has already been told that any more antics like that and she will be refused insurance. It turned out that she had 70 % sight in one eye and 30% in another. But her GP thought she was OK to drive!

 

The third was witnessed by an off duty Policeman who took the number and left it on my windscreen. This old gentleman put his car in gear and tried to reverse out of a parking spot. Only problem was he was not in reverse. The car kangarooed forward and hit my wife’s car that was just 9 months old. The damage ran into thousands. And the elderly gentleman just drove off - no note on our windscreen - nothing! - If the Policeman had not seen it we would have just come back to a car with a sodding great dent in the front. We traced the driver who again reluctantly gave us his insurance details muttering that he may not be able to drive after this.

 

The fourth and fifth were almost identical but several year apart. On both cases the elderly driver, stopped at a T junction looked straight at us as we came down the road on their left, then they pulled straight out in front of us. And once again witnesses stated exactly what happened and so all was OK,

 

But in one case the lady passenger got quiet nasty, saying that in her view her husband was OK to pull out onto a main road because I should have seen that he was elderly and allowed him to pull out. The y way she turned things round in her head so that she was the innocent party was truly amazing.

 

 

 

So apologies for the diatribe - but yes! I do believe in regular retesting. In fact I think that this would be a good idea for all drivers because if when we accrued points or had accidents the test date moved forward by say, six months for every point and a year for anyone who had a 100% their fault accident, then that may well have a sobering effect on the boy racers/inconsiderate drivers

 

 

 

:-S

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Hi,

 

Magistrates have the option of "disqualifying till test pass", effectively dropping the driver down to being a learner again. I understand it is usually used on older drivers. But then, how often do magistrates get to see the perps.

 

A colleague of my wife was rammed by a car entering a roundabout when there wasn't room. The elderly driver got out of his car , walked round to the other side, and got into the passenger side........

 

A friend was rammed by a car ecxiting a side road. Other driver said he always drove out like that....so it was obviously my friend's fault.

 

A truck was reversed into a neighbour's garden yesterday, collecting tree cuttings. Cars parked both sides of road, and yes he was sticking out further than the parked cars. Bimbo rolls up in her Fiesta, stops. Truck driver had to stand in the road and guide her through the gap. I would estimate she had about 2ft clearance either side. Frightening!

 

Age is not an illness or disability, though it may provoke either. But just look at this way. You have been told you are no longer fit to drive, and they have taken your licence away from you. But you consider yourself safe to drive....so what have you got to lose if you do drive. A fine? Further disqualification? Probably well worth the risk. Personally, I would rather such a person was driving a recognisable vehicle, and had insurance. So paint yellow stripes all over their car......and let Junior drive it too.

 

602

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Hi W3526602 I was in Malaya 1957 to 1960, I was known as Corporal G4170957 in those days. By 1960 we had finished off the bandits in the jungle, so we soon all came home. I was lucky I got Hong Kong next posting. But like you say, a Police report with every accident, so one tried to avoid having a bump. Hong Kong was worse, the Police impounded your car, and it took a whole day to get it back and a fortune in fares going from one Police station to another and back to the pound to get it back. It was made as awkward as it could be made to make people toe the line.
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I had a driving school for 22 years & also run motorcycle training sessions.In the village I lived in it was always my policy to be fully booked for requests for driving lessons if I knew they had a motorbike or scooter until they'd taken the bike course first, bit of blackmail really but for their own good I could make them take training in both.I always found the girls to be more receptive than the lads because they had no ego to burn.They always drove well on their lessons but as soon as they'd passed the test then the lads seemed to forget most of the good practices I'de taught them.Speeds increased dramatically ,following distances reduced to next to nothing & thats when they seemed to have the accidents.Correct roundabout signalling procedure went & they invented their own. I always said you cant put an old head on young shoulders !!!!!!!!!!
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Young drivers, bl**dy nuisance, but that's the ones that nick the cars and dump them, burning them out! Closely followed by the young sods nicking mopeds and riding them around, it's amazing what walking down middle of the road towards them with a large Dutch shovel in your hand does to their confidence though .... not a word is said but they soon turn tail never to be seen again.

 

As for old drivers, like the old 'dear' who parked her car 6 inches into the rear bumper of our 3 week old Rapido and didn't have a clue she'd done it and then when she got out tried to say she hadn't done it but that my husband had reversed into her this is despite the fact that he was parked with the handbrake firmly pulled on and the engine off .... she had her Grandson with her - frightening. I've seen quite a few older people who should clearly not be on the road driving any type of vehicle, some go very slowly (ie 15 in a 30 zone, 20 in a 40 zone etc) which means that other drivers either have to sit there or try to overtake, now I know that it's there choice but isn't driving too slowly and causing an obstruction/danger an offence? Or the ones who don't look before turning or pulling out. I'm sure everyone has had some experience of these types of older drivers. I'm not saying that lots of older drivers are like this but they must know they are not 'safe' but will not admit it and keep on going on the basis, probably, that if they've not been caught, then why stop.

 

However, there's one thing that I can never understand, and this applies to all drivers of whatever age, how on earth can you safely drive with only one eye? My dad has only had one eye since he was a kid and to my knowledge has never had an accident, he only had to give up driving when his invacar was taken away as they were not longer 'permitted' and due to his disability he was not able to manage a normal car so he was in effect grounded. But only having one eye must be limiting ... any one eyed monsters out there like to comment? ;-)

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Hi Mel,

 

I think that DVLA accept the loss of an eye without any problem. I understand it can take a few weeks to learn how to live without a "range finder".

 

Ranger....I hope you have a GSM for your time in Malaya? Have you got the other one too, issued by Malaya in 2004 for those there during the "troubles". Called something like the Jangat Pinar medal. Do a Google for "Medal Malaya". If appropriate, do a google for "Medal Borneo", and if you ever spent a day in VietNam......

 

602

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Whats a child to do ! If my daughter could not of passed her test at 17 then she would not of been able to get her apprentership she has to travell over an hour each way . There is noway in the world thatI could of taxied her to & fro . They want them to work be responsible and the like.

I think that its just a few of then youngsters and not everyone .I do feel a little sorry for them in my day they had clubs and things to do for the kids now nothing its easier to knock a car and sod the consiquences.

 

I hvae to admit though I am dreading my son learning although he is a sensible lad just something about a boy and I,m his mother he has got me worried . My daughter sees it as a tool for her trade somehow I think my son does not have the same outlook ..

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Hi again W3526602, yes I have the GSM, but not the Borneo Medal as I was married and only Singles were sent there. I will look up that Malayan medal you mentioned and add it to my gongs, or perhaps I'll not bother as I am 75 now and not fit enough to march in parades anymore, let alone dodge flying bullets. Nothing to do with young drivers, sorry all! but it was nice to come across some one else who served in the Malayan conflict.
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Hi,

 

In nature, the beastie that does it quickly is the one who survives. I tell my wife that, but it doesn't make her any happier ;-)

 

At about the time that I taught my son to drive (he had six professional lessons too, and used the school car for his test) it was common for another teenager to get close behind and sort of push him into a race. Very difficult not to respond. I once asked him if HE would insure himself. He agreed that he wouldn't. Having a car he was proud of helped, didn't want to bend it. I was never so glad as when the auto box packed up on his Alfa 6 (32000 miles, 3 owners, no rust, £100 cos the previous owner could get the 6 Webber thru the MOT). Surprisingly, my son taught six of his mates to drive, 5 pased first time and the sixth never passed.

 

602

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Turning into the main street of Market Rasen the other day in our new (3 weeks old) Volvo XC70 I was confronted with a Mercedes Vito van reversing towards me. I sounded the horn and slammed into reverse but too late - it rammed into the car. Given the recent purchase of the newest and best car we have ever been able to afford I lept out of the car and ran up to the drivers window venting my wrath in immoderate tones only to find no one in it!

 

Yup the driver was in the shop and had himself been the victim of the non existent Vito handbrake ( it's operated by foot). I asked him why he hadn't left the van in gear - He hadn't been taught to do that.

 

Luckily damage was restricted to a banged up number plate but it goes to show - It doesn't always have to be a young or an old driver but it helps if there is one!

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Just a query on the test for 70 year olds. I,ve been told this is is in the form of self assessment though I may be wrong. Giving up driving voluntarily is a big ask, and a basic medical and eye test would seem more appropriate.
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My Mother-in-law stopped driving in April 2007 on her 85th birthday due to 'family pressure' . We thought she was becoming 'slow' in her reactions and in judging clearance distances. She disagreed but went along with it if 'someone' would drive her around as she required!. This we do but, the point is, she feels she has lost her independence and has become 'old' and her morale has taken a downward turn because of if.

 

Regards, Mike & Cherry.

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Hi,

 

An Old Biddy living near me gave me her Renault 6 which spent half it life in UK and the other half in Spain. She seemed happy enough driving it, but I considered it undrivable as several controls were VERY stiff. She reckoned that maybe she was getting to old to drive at 80+, and was returning to a pedal cycle.

 

602

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Bazza454 - 2007-08-17 2:33 PM
howie - 2007-08-16 6:45 PM Just a query on the test for 70 year olds. I,ve been told this is is in the form of self assessment though I may be wrong. Giving up driving voluntarily is a big ask, and a basic medical and eye test would seem more appropriate.

Howie,

See tha attached -

http://www.dvla.gov.uk/media/pdf/medical/aagv1.pdf

Just had a look Baz and it seems to confirm that renewing your licence at 70 is by a medical self declaration form by the applicant and every three years after. I say "seem" as I found the small print difficult to read which suggests these assessments should be left to those better qualified to give an opinion.
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