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the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
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usermalc d
Posted: 14 February 2019 5:18 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 
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Brian Kirby - 2019-02-14 4:35 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:56 AM...…………………...How much would you like to bet that I wasn't on HMS Devonshire when she visited Odessa in Russia in 1976 ?

Er, its in Ukraine, Dave. Not another of those embarrassing navy lark errors, surely!




I reckon HMS Devonshire used to sail in circles around the Isle of Wight - land occasionally - and, each time, tell Dave he was in a different country.

userTracker
Posted: 14 February 2019 5:48 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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Location: Vanless in Evesham.


malc d - 2019-02-14 5:18 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-02-14 4:35 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:56 AM...…………………...How much would you like to bet that I wasn't on HMS Devonshire when she visited Odessa in Russia in 1976 ?

Er, its in Ukraine, Dave. Not another of those embarrassing navy lark errors, surely!




I reckon HMS Devonshire used to sail in circles around the Isle of Wight - land occasionally - and, each time, tell Dave he was in a different country.



As the Isle of Widget is more sort of diamond shaped sailing around it in a circle would cerainly confuse Naughtycal Dave, and hopefully the Russians too, especially if they switched from clockwise to anti clockwise?

Edited by Tracker 2019-02-14 5:50 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 14 February 2019 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


Walks with the gods

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Brian Kirby - 2019-02-14 4:35 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:56 AM...…………………...How much would you like to bet that I wasn't on HMS Devonshire when she visited Odessa in Russia in 1976 ?

Er, its in Ukraine, Dave. Not another of those embarrassing navy lark errors, surely!


In 1976 it was part of the Soviet Union which was commonly referred to as "Russia" Brian .........

From wiki......

"Nominally a union of multiple national Soviet republics, its government and economy were highly centralized. The country was a one-party state, governed by the Communist Party with Moscow as its capital in its largest republic, the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (Russian SFSR)."

Judging by Putin's actions he intends to make it part of Russia again .........



Edited by pelmetman 2019-02-14 6:09 PM
userTracker
Posted: 14 February 2019 6:18 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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Location: Vanless in Evesham.


Putin's favourite song. allegedly, - 'Cri me a River.'
userBulletguy
Posted: 14 February 2019 9:52 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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pelmetman - 2019-02-14 1:38 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-14 1:00 PM

Your idea of seeing and being in a country is very different to that of mine. Lets face it, you sit on some crummy campsite in Calpe half the year!!!!


Which is a lot longer than you spend anywhere ...........

I don't go touring for the sole purpose of seeing how long i can be away from the UK.....i tour different countries, something which appears anathema to you. Which begs the question, if so fanatically patriotic.......why do you do your utmost to spend half the year away from a country you claim to 'love' so much? Can you not see the hypocrisy in that? Because everyone else can.


Brian Kirby - 2019-02-14 4:35 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:56 AM...…………………...How much would you like to bet that I wasn't on HMS Devonshire when she visited Odessa in Russia in 1976 ?

Er, its in Ukraine, Dave. Not another of those embarrassing navy lark errors, surely!

He's looking at it as Ukrainian SSR which politically it was up till 1991 but geographically Odessa has always been a port city of Ukraine, even in the 1970's and the nearest Russian border is almost 500 miles away. Odessa Oblast expanded in 1954 to absorb Izmail Oblast (also known as the Budjak region of Bessarabia), formed in 1940 as a result of the Soviet occupation of Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina (from Romania), when Northern and Southern parts of Bessarabia were given to the Ukrainian SSR.

Below is a partial map of 1970's Ukraine. Unfortunately the only one i could find is in Cyrillic script and i know Pelmet struggles with our Roman script (them bloody migrants...again....it's their fault we use these funny letters!!), but Odessa is clearly marked. Ignore the green, that's Moldova. The full map can be viewed here; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg and some more reading for Pelmet https://www.britannica.com/place/Odessa-Ukraine

Edited by Bulletguy 2019-02-14 9:55 PM




(UKRAINE 1970s map.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments UKRAINE 1970s map.jpg (95KB - 8 downloads)
userBulletguy
Posted: 14 February 2019 10:03 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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malc d - 2019-02-14 5:18 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-02-14 4:35 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:56 AM...…………………...How much would you like to bet that I wasn't on HMS Devonshire when she visited Odessa in Russia in 1976 ?

Er, its in Ukraine, Dave. Not another of those embarrassing navy lark errors, surely!


I reckon HMS Devonshire used to sail in circles around the Isle of Wight - land occasionally - and, each time, tell Dave he was in a different country.

He sailed a 15ft dingy through the Bermuda triangle dontcha know. His head has never been right since.
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 February 2019 8:08 AM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


Walks with the gods

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Bulletguy - 2019-02-14 9:52 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 1:38 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-14 1:00 PM

Your idea of seeing and being in a country is very different to that of mine. Lets face it, you sit on some crummy campsite in Calpe half the year!!!!


Which is a lot longer than you spend anywhere ...........

I don't go touring for the sole purpose of seeing how long i can be away from the UK.....i tour different countries, something which appears anathema to you. Which begs the question, if so fanatically patriotic.......why do you do your utmost to spend half the year away from a country you claim to 'love' so much? Can you not see the hypocrisy in that? Because everyone else can.


Brian Kirby - 2019-02-14 4:35 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:56 AM...…………………...How much would you like to bet that I wasn't on HMS Devonshire when she visited Odessa in Russia in 1976 ?

Er, its in Ukraine, Dave. Not another of those embarrassing navy lark errors, surely!

He's looking at it as Ukrainian SSR which politically it was up till 1991 but geographically Odessa has always been a port city of Ukraine, even in the 1970's and the nearest Russian border is almost 500 miles away. Odessa Oblast expanded in 1954 to absorb Izmail Oblast (also known as the Budjak region of Bessarabia), formed in 1940 as a result of the Soviet occupation of Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina (from Romania), when Northern and Southern parts of Bessarabia were given to the Ukrainian SSR.

Below is a partial map of 1970's Ukraine. Unfortunately the only one i could find is in Cyrillic script and i know Pelmet struggles with our Roman script (them bloody migrants...again....it's their fault we use these funny letters!!), but Odessa is clearly marked. Ignore the green, that's Moldova. The full map can be viewed here; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg and some more reading for Pelmet https://www.britannica.com/place/Odessa-Ukraine


So like I said Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia ............

Which is why we were guests of the Russian Navy.........Not Ukraine's ........

userageingandrew
Posted: 15 February 2019 11:36 AM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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HarveyHeaven - 2019-02-12 9:13 AM

pelmetman - 2019-02-09 1:29 PM

HarveyHeaven - 2019-02-08 11:20 AM

Brexit is wrong it was won illegally promoted by a totally right wing press and Tory owned BBC...it is not possible to have considered discussion in relation to Brexit...where do you start....it was fraudulent and nothing can change that, it was won illegally.... the UK Government is corrupt .....the UK is fast becomming a dictatorship and the future is bleak...whatever the outcome of this particular corrupt event the UK will never be the same again. We know those who voted Brexit were lied to but sadly they know it now too but still support the corruption. Treaties and responsibilities are being broken without a thought for the consequences. The Tory Government are happily passing laws which result in the deaths of thousands of people in utter misery, poverty is rife....Victorian diseases realted to poverty have returned to the UK...homelessness is at an all time high with people in wheelchairs being made homeless and dying on the streets, the NHS is being totally destroyed to justify selling it off, hundreds of thousands of children are now living in poverty and temporary accommodation relying on food banks to stave off starvation, but the right wing press and the BBC remain stum......Democracy is dead and will remain so until some level honour is restored aided and a betted by an impartial media who will report the true state of affairs the country is now in.


Get over it ...........

We were lied to 40 odd years ago when we were told we could join a Common Market .........



The Electoral Commission found the Leave Campaign guilty of electoral fraud in 2016 and subject ot foreign interference..... NOTHING will change that....a democracy would have immediately declared the Referendum void and re-run it without delay ensuring there was no fraud and no foreign interference...these are facts....whist this remains the case the UK cannot be described as a Democracy and Democracy will not be restored until this fraudulent situation has been addressed........I cannot recall the Referendum of 40 years ago being officially found to be fraudulent!!



Not so and completely wrong. The Electoral commission did not find the Leave campaign guilty of electoral fraud. The electoral commission found them guilty of exceeding spending limits but then admitted that they themselves (the electoral commission) had misinterpreted their own spending rules.

There is no evidence of foreign interference highlighted anywhere in the election commission reports so how you can make such sweeping statements with no evidence is beyond me. As for the rest of this diatribe; un-substantiated nonsense; of utter crap; inane bitching; I really don't know why I have bothered to respond to it.....

But I did.

It makes me wonder whether the 'Remainiacs' would have bitched so much if 'Remain' had won.



userBulletguy
Posted: 15 February 2019 3:24 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:08 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-14 9:52 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 1:38 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-14 1:00 PM

Your idea of seeing and being in a country is very different to that of mine. Lets face it, you sit on some crummy campsite in Calpe half the year!!!!


Which is a lot longer than you spend anywhere ...........

I don't go touring for the sole purpose of seeing how long i can be away from the UK.....i tour different countries, something which appears anathema to you. Which begs the question, if so fanatically patriotic.......why do you do your utmost to spend half the year away from a country you claim to 'love' so much? Can you not see the hypocrisy in that? Because everyone else can.


Brian Kirby - 2019-02-14 4:35 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:56 AM...…………………...How much would you like to bet that I wasn't on HMS Devonshire when she visited Odessa in Russia in 1976 ?

Er, its in Ukraine, Dave. Not another of those embarrassing navy lark errors, surely!

He's looking at it as Ukrainian SSR which politically it was up till 1991 but geographically Odessa has always been a port city of Ukraine, even in the 1970's and the nearest Russian border is almost 500 miles away. Odessa Oblast expanded in 1954 to absorb Izmail Oblast (also known as the Budjak region of Bessarabia), formed in 1940 as a result of the Soviet occupation of Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina (from Romania), when Northern and Southern parts of Bessarabia were given to the Ukrainian SSR.

Below is a partial map of 1970's Ukraine. Unfortunately the only one i could find is in Cyrillic script and i know Pelmet struggles with our Roman script (them bloody migrants...again....it's their fault we use these funny letters!!), but Odessa is clearly marked. Ignore the green, that's Moldova. The full map can be viewed here; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg and some more reading for Pelmet https://www.britannica.com/place/Odessa-Ukraine


So like I said Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia ............

Politically yes geographically no. It's like claiming Poland as "being in" USSR purely because UK and US [wrongly] 'gave' it to them when allied forces divvied up after the war (read up on Yalta conference).

The partial map i posted showing exactly which country Odessa is in should have been enough but click on the jpeg link which shows the entire country. I couldn't post it up as the file size is way too much for OAL and reducing it down makes it impossible to read. The map is 1970's Ukraine.....the nearest Russian border is almost 500 miles away.

You're attempting to dispute a geographical fact.
userBulletguy
Posted: 15 February 2019 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


Legendary contributor

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ageingandrew - 2019-02-15 11:36 AM

HarveyHeaven - 2019-02-12 9:13 AM

pelmetman - 2019-02-09 1:29 PM

HarveyHeaven - 2019-02-08 11:20 AM

Brexit is wrong it was won illegally promoted by a totally right wing press and Tory owned BBC...it is not possible to have considered discussion in relation to Brexit...where do you start....it was fraudulent and nothing can change that, it was won illegally.... the UK Government is corrupt .....the UK is fast becomming a dictatorship and the future is bleak...whatever the outcome of this particular corrupt event the UK will never be the same again. We know those who voted Brexit were lied to but sadly they know it now too but still support the corruption. Treaties and responsibilities are being broken without a thought for the consequences. The Tory Government are happily passing laws which result in the deaths of thousands of people in utter misery, poverty is rife....Victorian diseases realted to poverty have returned to the UK...homelessness is at an all time high with people in wheelchairs being made homeless and dying on the streets, the NHS is being totally destroyed to justify selling it off, hundreds of thousands of children are now living in poverty and temporary accommodation relying on food banks to stave off starvation, but the right wing press and the BBC remain stum......Democracy is dead and will remain so until some level honour is restored aided and a betted by an impartial media who will report the true state of affairs the country is now in.


Get over it ...........

We were lied to 40 odd years ago when we were told we could join a Common Market .........



The Electoral Commission found the Leave Campaign guilty of electoral fraud in 2016 and subject ot foreign interference..... NOTHING will change that....a democracy would have immediately declared the Referendum void and re-run it without delay ensuring there was no fraud and no foreign interference...these are facts....whist this remains the case the UK cannot be described as a Democracy and Democracy will not be restored until this fraudulent situation has been addressed........I cannot recall the Referendum of 40 years ago being officially found to be fraudulent!!


Not so and completely wrong. The Electoral commission did not find the Leave campaign guilty of electoral fraud. The electoral commission found them guilty of exceeding spending limits but then admitted that they themselves (the electoral commission) had misinterpreted their own spending rules.

There is no evidence of foreign interference highlighted anywhere in the election commission reports so how you can make such sweeping statements with no evidence is beyond me. As for the rest of this diatribe; un-substantiated nonsense; of utter crap; inane bitching; I really don't know why I have bothered to respond to it.....

But I did.

It makes me wonder whether the 'Remainiacs' would have bitched so much if 'Remain' had won.

Vote Leave and BeLeave were running funding through different accounts, similar to money laundering if you like, and BeLeave spent more than £675,000 with Aggregate IQ under a common plan with Vote Leave. Aggregate IQ is a Canadian company so there's your evidence of 'foreign interference' straight away, part of which was the web intertwined through Cambridge Analytica and SCL.

False declarations were made and that's electoral fraud. You really should have a listen to Chris Whylie's testimony to MP's. Don't be fooled by his outward appearance, that guy worked with CA as a data consultant and is extremely articulate and intelligent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5g6IJm7YJQ&t=19m58s

I'm amazed anyone can still bury their heads over this as the evidence has long been out in the public domain that the Leave campaign actions were a subversion of democracy and quite how anyone can be comfortable with that, i've no idea. As with most Brexiteers you mention "the win" which sadly, appears to be of more importance than valuing and ensuring lawful democracy.
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 February 2019 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24210
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 3:24 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:08 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-14 9:52 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 1:38 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-14 1:00 PM

Your idea of seeing and being in a country is very different to that of mine. Lets face it, you sit on some crummy campsite in Calpe half the year!!!!


Which is a lot longer than you spend anywhere ...........

I don't go touring for the sole purpose of seeing how long i can be away from the UK.....i tour different countries, something which appears anathema to you. Which begs the question, if so fanatically patriotic.......why do you do your utmost to spend half the year away from a country you claim to 'love' so much? Can you not see the hypocrisy in that? Because everyone else can.


Brian Kirby - 2019-02-14 4:35 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:56 AM...…………………...How much would you like to bet that I wasn't on HMS Devonshire when she visited Odessa in Russia in 1976 ?

Er, its in Ukraine, Dave. Not another of those embarrassing navy lark errors, surely!

He's looking at it as Ukrainian SSR which politically it was up till 1991 but geographically Odessa has always been a port city of Ukraine, even in the 1970's and the nearest Russian border is almost 500 miles away. Odessa Oblast expanded in 1954 to absorb Izmail Oblast (also known as the Budjak region of Bessarabia), formed in 1940 as a result of the Soviet occupation of Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina (from Romania), when Northern and Southern parts of Bessarabia were given to the Ukrainian SSR.

Below is a partial map of 1970's Ukraine. Unfortunately the only one i could find is in Cyrillic script and i know Pelmet struggles with our Roman script (them bloody migrants...again....it's their fault we use these funny letters!!), but Odessa is clearly marked. Ignore the green, that's Moldova. The full map can be viewed here; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg and some more reading for Pelmet https://www.britannica.com/place/Odessa-Ukraine


So like I said Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia ............

Politically yes geographically no. It's like claiming Poland as "being in" USSR purely because UK and US [wrongly] 'gave' it to them when allied forces divvied up after the war (read up on Yalta conference).

The partial map i posted showing exactly which country Odessa is in should have been enough but click on the jpeg link which shows the entire country. I couldn't post it up as the file size is way too much for OAL and reducing it down makes it impossible to read. The map is 1970's Ukraine.....the nearest Russian border is almost 500 miles away.

You're attempting to dispute a geographical fact.


Rubbish the USSR was ruled from Moscow .............

Your argument is like saying Wales isn't part of Britain .........

Except Wales has far more autonomy than the Ukraine did in 1976 ........

userpelmetman
Posted: 15 February 2019 4:14 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24210
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:02 PM

ageingandrew - 2019-02-15 11:36 AM

HarveyHeaven - 2019-02-12 9:13 AM

pelmetman - 2019-02-09 1:29 PM

HarveyHeaven - 2019-02-08 11:20 AM

Brexit is wrong it was won illegally promoted by a totally right wing press and Tory owned BBC...it is not possible to have considered discussion in relation to Brexit...where do you start....it was fraudulent and nothing can change that, it was won illegally.... the UK Government is corrupt .....the UK is fast becomming a dictatorship and the future is bleak...whatever the outcome of this particular corrupt event the UK will never be the same again. We know those who voted Brexit were lied to but sadly they know it now too but still support the corruption. Treaties and responsibilities are being broken without a thought for the consequences. The Tory Government are happily passing laws which result in the deaths of thousands of people in utter misery, poverty is rife....Victorian diseases realted to poverty have returned to the UK...homelessness is at an all time high with people in wheelchairs being made homeless and dying on the streets, the NHS is being totally destroyed to justify selling it off, hundreds of thousands of children are now living in poverty and temporary accommodation relying on food banks to stave off starvation, but the right wing press and the BBC remain stum......Democracy is dead and will remain so until some level honour is restored aided and a betted by an impartial media who will report the true state of affairs the country is now in.


Get over it ...........

We were lied to 40 odd years ago when we were told we could join a Common Market .........



The Electoral Commission found the Leave Campaign guilty of electoral fraud in 2016 and subject ot foreign interference..... NOTHING will change that....a democracy would have immediately declared the Referendum void and re-run it without delay ensuring there was no fraud and no foreign interference...these are facts....whist this remains the case the UK cannot be described as a Democracy and Democracy will not be restored until this fraudulent situation has been addressed........I cannot recall the Referendum of 40 years ago being officially found to be fraudulent!!


Not so and completely wrong. The Electoral commission did not find the Leave campaign guilty of electoral fraud. The electoral commission found them guilty of exceeding spending limits but then admitted that they themselves (the electoral commission) had misinterpreted their own spending rules.

There is no evidence of foreign interference highlighted anywhere in the election commission reports so how you can make such sweeping statements with no evidence is beyond me. As for the rest of this diatribe; un-substantiated nonsense; of utter crap; inane bitching; I really don't know why I have bothered to respond to it.....

But I did.

It makes me wonder whether the 'Remainiacs' would have bitched so much if 'Remain' had won.

Vote Leave and BeLeave were running funding through different accounts, similar to money laundering if you like, and BeLeave spent more than £675,000 with Aggregate IQ under a common plan with Vote Leave. Aggregate IQ is a Canadian company so there's your evidence of 'foreign interference' straight away, part of which was the web intertwined through Cambridge Analytica and SCL.

False declarations were made and that's electoral fraud. You really should have a listen to Chris Whylie's testimony to MP's. Don't be fooled by his outward appearance, that guy worked with CA as a data consultant and is extremely articulate and intelligent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5g6IJm7YJQ&t=19m58s

I'm amazed anyone can still bury their heads over this as the evidence has long been out in the public domain that the Leave campaign actions were a subversion of democracy and quite how anyone can be comfortable with that, i've no idea. As with most Brexiteers you mention "the win" which sadly, appears to be of more importance than valuing and ensuring lawful democracy.


Curiously you Remoaners are happy to bury your heads about the 9 million of taxpayers dosh he spent on your campaign ..........

RUDDY REMOANER HYPOCRITES .........

userBulletguy
Posted: 15 February 2019 4:39 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 8907
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pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:11 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 3:24 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:08 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-14 9:52 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 1:38 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-14 1:00 PM

Your idea of seeing and being in a country is very different to that of mine. Lets face it, you sit on some crummy campsite in Calpe half the year!!!!


Which is a lot longer than you spend anywhere ...........

I don't go touring for the sole purpose of seeing how long i can be away from the UK.....i tour different countries, something which appears anathema to you. Which begs the question, if so fanatically patriotic.......why do you do your utmost to spend half the year away from a country you claim to 'love' so much? Can you not see the hypocrisy in that? Because everyone else can.


Brian Kirby - 2019-02-14 4:35 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:56 AM...…………………...How much would you like to bet that I wasn't on HMS Devonshire when she visited Odessa in Russia in 1976 ?

Er, its in Ukraine, Dave. Not another of those embarrassing navy lark errors, surely!

He's looking at it as Ukrainian SSR which politically it was up till 1991 but geographically Odessa has always been a port city of Ukraine, even in the 1970's and the nearest Russian border is almost 500 miles away. Odessa Oblast expanded in 1954 to absorb Izmail Oblast (also known as the Budjak region of Bessarabia), formed in 1940 as a result of the Soviet occupation of Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina (from Romania), when Northern and Southern parts of Bessarabia were given to the Ukrainian SSR.

Below is a partial map of 1970's Ukraine. Unfortunately the only one i could find is in Cyrillic script and i know Pelmet struggles with our Roman script (them bloody migrants...again....it's their fault we use these funny letters!!), but Odessa is clearly marked. Ignore the green, that's Moldova. The full map can be viewed here; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg and some more reading for Pelmet https://www.britannica.com/place/Odessa-Ukraine


So like I said Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia ............

Politically yes geographically no. It's like claiming Poland as "being in" USSR purely because UK and US [wrongly] 'gave' it to them when allied forces divvied up after the war (read up on Yalta conference).

The partial map i posted showing exactly which country Odessa is in should have been enough but click on the jpeg link which shows the entire country. I couldn't post it up as the file size is way too much for OAL and reducing it down makes it impossible to read. The map is 1970's Ukraine.....the nearest Russian border is almost 500 miles away.

You're attempting to dispute a geographical fact.


Rubbish the USSR was ruled from Moscow .............

Your argument is like saying Wales isn't part of Britain .........

It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa.
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 February 2019 4:49 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 24210
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:11 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 3:24 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:08 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-14 9:52 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 1:38 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-14 1:00 PM

Your idea of seeing and being in a country is very different to that of mine. Lets face it, you sit on some crummy campsite in Calpe half the year!!!!


Which is a lot longer than you spend anywhere ...........

I don't go touring for the sole purpose of seeing how long i can be away from the UK.....i tour different countries, something which appears anathema to you. Which begs the question, if so fanatically patriotic.......why do you do your utmost to spend half the year away from a country you claim to 'love' so much? Can you not see the hypocrisy in that? Because everyone else can.


Brian Kirby - 2019-02-14 4:35 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:56 AM...…………………...How much would you like to bet that I wasn't on HMS Devonshire when she visited Odessa in Russia in 1976 ?

Er, its in Ukraine, Dave. Not another of those embarrassing navy lark errors, surely!

He's looking at it as Ukrainian SSR which politically it was up till 1991 but geographically Odessa has always been a port city of Ukraine, even in the 1970's and the nearest Russian border is almost 500 miles away. Odessa Oblast expanded in 1954 to absorb Izmail Oblast (also known as the Budjak region of Bessarabia), formed in 1940 as a result of the Soviet occupation of Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina (from Romania), when Northern and Southern parts of Bessarabia were given to the Ukrainian SSR.

Below is a partial map of 1970's Ukraine. Unfortunately the only one i could find is in Cyrillic script and i know Pelmet struggles with our Roman script (them bloody migrants...again....it's their fault we use these funny letters!!), but Odessa is clearly marked. Ignore the green, that's Moldova. The full map can be viewed here; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg and some more reading for Pelmet https://www.britannica.com/place/Odessa-Ukraine


So like I said Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia ............

Politically yes geographically no. It's like claiming Poland as "being in" USSR purely because UK and US [wrongly] 'gave' it to them when allied forces divvied up after the war (read up on Yalta conference).

The partial map i posted showing exactly which country Odessa is in should have been enough but click on the jpeg link which shows the entire country. I couldn't post it up as the file size is way too much for OAL and reducing it down makes it impossible to read. The map is 1970's Ukraine.....the nearest Russian border is almost 500 miles away.

You're attempting to dispute a geographical fact.


Rubbish the USSR was ruled from Moscow .............

Your argument is like saying Wales isn't part of Britain .........

It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa.


The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there ...........

I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet .........I also know that at the time they were at least 30 years behind the times back then ..........and they still had rationing .......

Perhaps you should rethink your hero worship of all things leftist? ..........

Coz as we can see from Venezuela they can even f*ck up a oil rich country .......

userBulletguy
Posted: 15 February 2019 6:59 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM

It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa.


The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there ...........

I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet .......

Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another.

Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked.

The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection.

Edited by Bulletguy 2019-02-15 7:00 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 February 2019 7:06 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM

It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa.


The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there ...........

I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet .......

Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another.

Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked.

The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection.


The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it .......

In 1976 it WAS based in Odessa ..........I know because I was there ........

userTracker
Posted: 15 February 2019 7:08 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM

Coz as we can see from Venezuela they can even f*ck up a oil rich country .......



Commies and lefties are not proud - they will screw up any country whilst they feather their own comfy corners - it just takes a bit longer to show when they start with national wealth as their source, before screwing theier own population - and it is unfotunate that the freedom of thought and speech that undemocratic Britain enjoys is often one of the first casualties.
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 February 2019 7:25 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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Tracker - 2019-02-15 7:08 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM

Coz as we can see from Venezuela they can even f*ck up a oil rich country .......



Commies and lefties are not proud - they will screw up any country whilst they feather their own comfy corners - it just takes a bit longer to show when they start with national wealth as their source, before screwing theier own population - and it is unfotunate that the freedom of thought and speech that undemocratic Britain enjoys is often one of the first casualties.


You have a point Rich ............

Nicolás Maduro Moros (/m?'d??ro?/; Spanish: [niko'las ma'du?o 'mo?os];[2] born 23 November 1962) is a Venezuelan politician serving as the 46th President of Venezuela since 2013 and previously served as Minister of Foreign Affairs from 2006 to 2013 and as Vice President of Venezuela from 2012 to 2013 under President Hugo Chávez.

Beginning his working life as a bus driver, Maduro rose to become a trade union leader before being elected to the National Assembly in 2000. He was appointed to a number of positions within the Venezuelan government under Chávez, ultimately being made Foreign Minister in 2006. He was described during this time as the "most capable administrator and politician of Chávez's inner circle".[3] After Chávez's death was announced on 5 March 2013, Maduro assumed the powers and responsibilities of the President. A special election was held on 14 April 2013 to elect a new President, and Maduro won with 50.62% of the votes as the candidate of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela. He was formally inaugurated on 19 April.[4] He has ruled Venezuela by decree since 19 November 2013 through powers granted to him by the Venezuela legislature.[5][6][7][8] His presidency has coincided with a decline in Venezuela's socioeconomic status, with crime, inflation, poverty and hunger increasing; analysts have attributed Venezuela's decline to both Chávez and Maduro's economic policies,[9][10][11][12] while Maduro has blamed speculation and economic warfare waged by his political opponents.[13][14][15][16][17][18] Shortages in Venezuela and decreased living standards resulted in protests beginning in 2014 that escalated into daily marches nationwide, resulting in 43 deaths and a decrease in Maduro's popularity.[19][20][21][22] Maduro's loss of popularity saw the election of an opposition-led National Assembly in 2015 and a movement toward recalling Maduro in 2016, though Maduro still maintains power through loyal political bodies, such as the Supreme Tribunal, National Electoral Council and the military.[

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicol%C3%A1s_Maduro

It appears the moral to this story is ..........Beware us ex Bus drivers ........

userpelmetman
Posted: 15 February 2019 7:36 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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malc d - 2019-02-14 5:18 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-02-14 4:35 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:56 AM...…………………...How much would you like to bet that I wasn't on HMS Devonshire when she visited Odessa in Russia in 1976 ?

Er, its in Ukraine, Dave. Not another of those embarrassing navy lark errors, surely!




I reckon HMS Devonshire used to sail in circles around the Isle of Wight - land occasionally - and, each time, tell Dave he was in a different country.



Actually Malc my first foreign trip on the Devonshire was to Hamburg .......

Where I went window shopping down the Reeperbahn as a 17 year old ......

Since then......Window shopping has been a massive disappointment .......



Edited by pelmetman 2019-02-15 7:42 PM
userBulletguy
Posted: 15 February 2019 8:29 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM

It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa.


The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there ...........

I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet .......

Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another.

Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked.

The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection.


The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it .......

Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in.

Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided.

1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg

2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked.
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 February 2019 8:39 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:29 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM

It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa.


The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there ...........

I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet .......

Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another.

Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked.

The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection.


The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it .......

Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in.

Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided.

1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg

2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked.


Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia .......

Back then it was no different to a county border in the UK .........

As far as the Government and the Navy was concerned we were engaged in reciprocal visits with Russia .............

Which is why a Russian ship was timed to visit Portsmouth at the same time ........

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-ajaxnetphoto-28th-may1976-portsmouthengland-the-russians-are-coming-134200281.html



Edited by pelmetman 2019-02-15 8:43 PM
userBulletguy
Posted: 15 February 2019 8:45 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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Tracker - 2019-02-15 7:08 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM

Coz as we can see from Venezuela they can even f*ck up a oil rich country .......



Commies and lefties are not proud - they will screw up any country whilst they feather their own comfy corners -

America? Yes you'd be right on "screwing up any country to feather their own nest" on that one, though i've always had their politics more right wing leaning than left. There are plenty of American media sources explaining their meddling and encouraging various coups over the years to install another puppet.

Doesn't take much to see why the US is so interested in Venezuela.
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 February 2019 8:49 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:45 PM

Tracker - 2019-02-15 7:08 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM

Coz as we can see from Venezuela they can even f*ck up a oil rich country .......



Commies and lefties are not proud - they will screw up any country whilst they feather their own comfy corners -

America? Yes you'd be right on "screwing up any country to feather their own nest" on that one, though i've always had their politics more right wing leaning than left. There are plenty of American media sources explaining their meddling and encouraging various coups over the years to install another puppet.

Doesn't take much to see why the US is so interested in Venezuela.


Doesn't take much to see why Putin is so interested in Venezuela............ Comrade ........



Edited by pelmetman 2019-02-15 8:50 PM
userBulletguy
Posted: 15 February 2019 8:51 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:39 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:29 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM

It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa.


The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there ...........

I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet .......

Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another.

Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked.

The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection.


The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it .......

Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in.

Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided.

1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg

2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked.


Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia ......

You're conflating political location with geographical location which i've already gone through so i'll ask you again.....what is the name of the country Odessa is marked on that 1970's map?

JUST the country name......cut the waffle and deflection, just name the country. One word is all you need in reply.
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 February 2019 8:54 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:51 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:39 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:29 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM

It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa.


The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there ...........

I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet .......

Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another.

Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked.

The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection.


The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it .......

Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in.

Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided.

1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg

2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked.


Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia ......

You're conflating political location with geographical location which i've already gone through so i'll ask you again.....what is the name of the country Odessa is marked on that 1970's map?

JUST the country name......cut the waffle and deflection, just name the country. One word is all you need in reply.


Russia ........

userBulletguy
Posted: 15 February 2019 8:59 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:54 PM

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pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:39 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:29 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM

It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa.


The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there ...........

I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet .......

Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another.

Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked.

The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection.


The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it .......

Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in.

Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided.

1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg

2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked.


Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia ......

You're conflating political location with geographical location which i've already gone through so i'll ask you again.....what is the name of the country Odessa is marked on that 1970's map?

JUST the country name......cut the waffle and deflection, just name the country. One word is all you need in reply.


Russia ........

There is a very large country between Moldova and Russia. Can you tell me the name of it?
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 February 2019 9:11 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:54 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:51 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:39 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:29 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM

It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa.


The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there ...........

I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet .......

Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another.

Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked.

The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection.


The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it .......

Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in.

Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided.

1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg

2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked.


Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia ......

You're conflating political location with geographical location which i've already gone through so i'll ask you again.....what is the name of the country Odessa is marked on that 1970's map?

JUST the country name......cut the waffle and deflection, just name the country. One word is all you need in reply.


Russia ........

There is a very large country between Moldova and Russia. Can you tell me the name of it?


Yeah ......in 1976 it was commonly known as Russia .........



userBulletguy
Posted: 15 February 2019 9:20 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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pelmetman - 2019-02-15 9:11 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:54 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:51 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:39 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:29 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM

It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa.


The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there ...........

I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet .......

Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another.

Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked.

The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection.


The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it .......

Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in.

Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided.

1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg

2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked.


Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia ......

You're conflating political location with geographical location which i've already gone through so i'll ask you again.....what is the name of the country Odessa is marked on that 1970's map?

JUST the country name......cut the waffle and deflection, just name the country. One word is all you need in reply.


Russia ........

There is a very large country between Moldova and Russia. Can you tell me the name of it?


Yeah ......in 1976 it was commonly known as Russia .........

No it wasn't......you're purposely avoiding stating Ukraine as though it never existed. I asked you to state the name of the country Odessa is, and always has been, geographically located in.....not politically.
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 February 2019 9:40 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


Walks with the gods

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Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 9:20 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 9:11 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:54 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:51 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:39 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:29 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM

It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa.


The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there ...........

I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet .......

Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another.

Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked.

The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection.


The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it .......

Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in.

Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided.

1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg

2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked.


Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia ......

You're conflating political location with geographical location which i've already gone through so i'll ask you again.....what is the name of the country Odessa is marked on that 1970's map?

JUST the country name......cut the waffle and deflection, just name the country. One word is all you need in reply.


Russia ........

There is a very large country between Moldova and Russia. Can you tell me the name of it?


Yeah ......in 1976 it was commonly known as Russia .........

No it wasn't......you're purposely avoiding stating Ukraine as though it never existed. I asked you to state the name of the country Odessa is, and always has been, geographically located in.....not politically.


A bit of history for you about your Communist chums.......

The Ukrainian government briefly allied themselves with Poland, but could not withstand the Soviet assault. In 1922, Ukraine became one of the original constituent republics of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (U.S.S.R.); it would not regain its independence until the U.S.S.R.'s collapse in 1991.5 Nov 2009

Ergo....... they were part of the USSR, commonly known as Russia since 1922 until 1991 .......

Although it appears your mate Putin has an issue with them leaving ..........

userBulletguy
Posted: 15 February 2019 9:50 PM
Subject: RE: the demise of democracy in the United Kingdom
 


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It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa.


The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there ...........

I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet .......

Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another.

Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked.

The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection.


The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it .......

Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in.

Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided.

1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg

2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked.


Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia ......

You're conflating political location with geographical location which i've already gone through so i'll ask you again.....what is the name of the country Odessa is marked on that 1970's map?

JUST the country name......cut the waffle and deflection, just name the country. One word is all you need in reply.


Russia ........

There is a very large country between Moldova and Russia. Can you tell me the name of it?


Yeah ......in 1976 it was commonly known as Russia .........

No it wasn't......you're purposely avoiding stating Ukraine as though it never existed. I asked you to state the name of the country Odessa is, and always has been, geographically located in.....not politically.

Ukraine.

Correct.....i've edited out the rest of your waffle because i only needed to see you state the name of the country Odessa is and always has been geographically located in.
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