Additional service items

[Don636]

My Fiat garage has recommended that I have some additional maintainance done over and above the normal service and I was wondering if these jobs are really necessary and do other forum members have this work done. The van will be 5 years old in May having done 14,000 miles and non f these jobs have been done so far. The recommended work includes the following:

 

Strip and clean the front brake calipers £72

Change the brake fluid £45

Service the ac system £90

Ac antibacterial cleanse £23

Fuel system flush £23

 

Total for all jobs £253 on top of a service which will probably be around £250

 

What do you think?

[Laurence]

Have you looked at the Fiat service handbook that gives service details?

These items are likely to be recommended due to the age of the vehicle, rather than the mileage (which is low - many on here, like me, will do 14k a year).

My first reaction is that these prices (probably with VAT on top) look remarkably cheap, so I would go ahead and have it done. You will probably find the work is recommended in the service schedule.

 

Regards,

[Wasnt Me]

Some of it might be worth having done.

 

I.e the brake fluid change and the Air con service.

 

The rest sounds a bit like a money making scheme. £72 to strip and clean the brakes, seems a bit pointless to me. The A/C you can clean yourself with a can from Halfords.

 

It it ain't broke and all that.

 

Hope this helps

[witzend]

Yes have all done and I'd have the rear brakes done as well Disc pads do stick in the calipers causing extra and uneven wear.(do mine every 12 mths) The only thing I'd question is the fuel system flush into whats involved filter change should be a service item ? an water drain from filter is done in 5 mins. Our local garage charge £45 to service air conditioning.

[BruceM]

Personally, my main question for each item would be why?

 

Strip and clean the front brake callipers £72.

Are you having braking issues? For £72 I doubt they’d be stripping the brake callipers. At most I’d expect them to take off the wheel, remove the calliper, remove the brake pads and brush the callipers to remove dust. Pointless in my opinion especially as replacing the front brake pads at some future date will be the same process. If, on the other hand, there’s a suspicion that the callipers are seizing or that brake pad wear is uneven then it’s worth investigation.

 

Change brake fluid £45.

At five years old (assuming that it’s never been changed) then it’s good practice to change it periodically. £45 seems a reasonable price for a complete brake fluid change. Some manufactures recommend changing brake fluid now every two years which in my opinion is usually unjustified but then it’s their vehicle and they know best how to support their dealerships.

 

Service the ac system £90.

Ac antibacterial cleanse £23.[/i]

Is the aircon satisfactory? If not then get it serviced. If it’s fine then I’d leave it as is especially given they want over £100. My old garaged went through a phase where they recommended an A/C service every year. They used an external service agent and got a generous cut of the fee every time. A/C is a non essential, if it ever fails (and they usually just fade) then have the air con recharged later by a mobile a/c service agent.

 

Fuel system flush £23.

This is a new one on me. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can explain what this means. Are they proposing to drain down the fuel tank and flush every thing through with a cleaning agent for £23?? Sounds more like sticking an additive into the fuel tank which if it is, is something we can do ourselves courtesy of a trip down to Halfords or an eBay purchase.

 

Finally, ensure their quoted prices included VAT - 20% on top would be an unwelcome shock.

 

 

[Don636]

Bruce - many thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. I think I will get the brake fluid changed. The pedal does not feel spongy but I tend to agree that this is a good idea anyway. I think I’ll pass on the calliper strip as I keep the van very clean underneath so there is no build up of brake dust or crud around the callipers. I did experience a bit of brake fade last year during a steep mountain pass decline which was worrying but I think it was just heat build up probably caused by too much speed, not a low enough gear and too much braking. It only happened once. For this reason alone a brake fluid change is probably not a bad idea. I have also had a notice about rusting on the rear face of the discs which is probably caused by too much sitting around and not enough use so I guess the discs and pads may need changing sometime but I think they are OK at the moment so unless they become an MOT failure or are affecting braking performance I will leave them alone.

I am not aware of any problem with the ac system and there are no funny smells so I think I will pass on these two items.

I like to keep the van in tip top condition and dont mind paying for work in principle but I know that dealers are pushed to up sell work that may not be absolutely necessary.

[Will86]

Unless you stand over the mechanic you will have no idea what they are doing. According to the handbook schedule they are 'legally' obliged to carry out their duties to maintain a usable vehicle. Only one of the items would benefit you, that of changing the brake fluid which is a generally a standard service requirement, any mention of it may cause anxiety and persuade you proceed otherwise. Personally I would ignore the lot.

[Deneb]

Don636 - 2019-02-22 10:51 PM

Strip and clean the front brake calipers £72

Change the brake fluid £45

Service the ac system £90

Ac antibacterial cleanse £23

Fuel system flush £23

 

I have to agree with the other replies.

 

Air con service - is it causing problems? If not, why disturb it? Air con cleanse - does it smell when in use? If not, why bother? It is good practice to switch the heater to full heat with air con running for a few minutes at the end of a drive periodically though. That should be enough in itself to prevent or kill off any bugs in the system.

 

Front brakes - again, if no problems, why? Should be part of a proper pad replacement procedure, but unless there are demonstrable symptoms of a fault in the interim, why?

 

Fuel system flush - snake oil and a money making exercise for the dealer, especially if you use a decent fuel at the pumps. Arguably a flush could do as much harm as good.

 

At 5 years, the brake fluid is due a change. Brake fluid is hydroscopic and attracts moisture over time. £45 seems fairly cheap for a main dealer price though. I would ask them if they are just flushing new fluid through the brake lines or whether that includes the clutch line and pumping new fluid through the ABS unit as well.

[Don636]

I agree Will, I am only going to get the brake fluid changed at the moment. Thanks.

[Robbo]

Brake fluid absorbes water from the atmosphere over time. In extreme circumstances, like decending a steep mountain road, the water will boil and produce air bubbles. This leads to brake-fade or at least a reduction in braking efficiency.

 

Fresh brake fluid will withstand much higher temperatures when operating in extreme conditions.

 

We quite often do mountains in mainland Europe so have the brake fluid changed every 3 years.

[Don636]

Thanks Robbo, definitely makes sense to change the brake fluid then as more mountains this year.

[Billggski]

As the moho has been standing still for most of its life, I consider checking the front calipers a good idea. The cylinders can corrode if not regularly used and can stick or leak.

The pads and discs can also corrode, I've seen pads de laminate after use on salted roads.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Looks fine to me too. And look after your teeth too whit your dentist, and your computer.

[colin]

Don636 - 2019-02-22 10:51 PM

Strip and clean the front brake calipers £72

 

On my van the front calipers became a bit 'sticky', Nick 'exercised' them which helped, but they have become a bit 'sticky' again and probably could do with stripping and cleaning.

 

Change the brake fluid £45

 

As others have said it would be prudent to do, note the moisture content can be checked.

 

Service the ac system £90

 

This is something I've been considering, I'm not sure if a/c systems gradually lose gas and benefit from being topped up, I've found the hard way that when they stop working regassing rarely works as odds are the seals have gone.

 

Ac antibacterial cleanse £23

 

Your nose will tell you, our van it's not a problem, one of my cars has had to be done.

 

Fuel system flush £23

Have never had this done on a vehicle.

 

 

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

You can talk your selves death about this. But all these things are clearly defined on the service schedule by your brand. It is a work horse treat them gently

[mikefitz]

The calipers on the Fiat Ducato are prone to jamming on the sliders, more so on vehicles that are lightly used or laid up for a time. The brakes are a bit marginal on the light chassis and only slightly better on the heavy, maxi chassis. Since motorhomes are operating near full load its important the brakes are in tip top condition. Its not unknown for the pads to 'fall apart' and only a strip down can determine this. On a lightly used vehicle you often need to have the discs replaced.

Unless you are able to check the calipers yourself I would advise getting the work done and get them to check the rear at the same time.

Brake fluid change is important and I am surprised it was not done earlier.

Ignore the AC work at the Fiat garage but have the system serviced by a AC specialist, ( not Halfords or Kuikfit). Ideally you want a system vacuum evacuation followed by a gas and oil refill. They will check for any leaks at the same time.

The fuel system should not need anything other than a filter change, decline any 'fuel cleaning'.

 

Mike

[Derek Uzzell]

As Monique says, the Fiat Ducato Owner Handbook will contain a section relating to a Scheduled Servicing Plan that will indicate the work that a Fiat Professional agent should be expected to perform at defined mileage/time intervals.

 

The Handbook for my 2015 Ducato advises that the brake/clutch hydraulic fluid should be changed every 2 years (at the latest).

 

When my previous motorhomes were annually serviced by Moran Motorhomes at Ludlow, the service work included the brakes being disassembled, the condition of the pads/linings being inspected and the relevant parts being lubricated. However, such diligence is unusual and my Ducato Owner Handbook merely advises the following checks should be carried out every 2 years (at the latest)

 

Check condition and wear of front disc brake pads and operation of pad

wear indicator. Check condition and wear of rear disc brake pads and operation of pad wear indicator (for versions/markets where provided)

 

These checks will normally be visual-only with the road-wheels not being removed.

 

As mikefitz warns, sliding caliper disc brakes can stick on their ‘slides’ and degraded disc pads won’t necessarily be detected by a visual check. Me, I’d want to know what "Strip and clean the front brake calipers” actually entailed as - after 5 years and 14000 miles - if it’s going to cost £72 to have the front brakes stripped and cleaned, I’d be seriously considering having the brake-pads replaced as part of the procedure.

[Will86]

Derek Uzzell - 2019-02-24 8:47 AM

 

if it’s going to cost £72 to have the front brakes stripped and cleaned, I’d be seriously considering having the brake-pads replaced as part of the procedure.

 

I've nothing against safety and like all things as perfect as possible but 'to me' that automatically follows any offers of an inspection and ... how could the owner refuse.

[Derek Uzzell]

The additional work that was suggested be carried out was

 

Strip and clean the front brake calipers £72

Change the brake fluid £45

Service the ac system £90

Ac antibacterial cleanse £23

Fuel system flush £23

 

If Don does not actually monitor what the mechanic does, how can he be sure that any of these tasks are performed?

 

Plainly, when the front brakes were stripped down, there’s the possibility that Don might be told that the brake-pads required replacement then or in the near future, but so what? Unless a motorhome owner DIYs his/her vehicle’s maintenance, trust has to be placed in the person/garage that does the work.

 

I wouldn’t have my Ducato’s front brakes stripped and cleaned because I’m capable of doing this myself and I’d almost certainly replace the pads at the same time as it would make sense to do this while the calipers were off.

[BruceM]

Re the brakes; interestingly, when I have my vehicle serviced my (independent) garage always reports the pad condition eg break pad wear even, front 25% wear, rear 10% wear . From my perspective this provides an early warning of calliper sliders sticking or of the need to plan for a brake pad change. I’m just wondering if this is standard and others receive similar reports when they have their vehicles serviced.

[ALAN G]

An email from my Volkswagen garage, yesterday, says that they will change the brake fluid in my Golf for £69. The video shows that is all they do.

 

My Autocruise Vista, last week, at my usual independent garage, had the brake fluid changed, along with several other items like cam belt .MOT, brake pads etc. The labour cost was given as a total. However the cost of the fluid was charged at £44.53 (including VAT)

 

Hope this helps with comparisons.

 

[Don636]

Just had the van serviced by Fiat. Service £195. MOT £55. Brake fluid change £49. They said the ac worked fine but that I should think about having it regassed anyway so I might get that done next year.

At 18,000 miles and 5 years the tyre tread left is 6mm front and 9mm rear. Brake pad wear is 25% front 20% rear.

[aandncaravan]

One of the most common issues with motorhomes that came in for a service having covered only low miles was sticking pads/calipers.

 

Contrary to popular belief, they don't just suddenly lock solid, but drag more and more over time.

 

Each long 'stand' that is then followed by a drive results in both pads and discs getting hot.

In the early days of 'stickiness' they would tend to free off after a few miles.

But obviously as time goes on, the period they drag gets longer and longer, till they eventually drag to some extent for much of the time.

 

This results in not just in higher fuel consumption, greater tyre wear and lower performance but overheated pads to the point they would crack and even break up.

Discs often warped with the heat.

 

A strip of the brakes, if done properly results in the unit being reassembled with the 'sliding' parts greased using Bosch Brake grease, Copperslip, etc. and moving easily and smoothly.

 

I am not sure an annual strip is necessary (except maybe in Scotland?) but every three years, isn't a bad idea once the vehicle matures.

 

Pad material also degrades with age when only low miles are covered, so if it was me, I wouldn't just have the brakes stripped and re-assembled at 5 years. Just like Derek suggests I would have the pads changed, as new Pads should be re-assembled using Copperslip, etc so you get the benefit of both with only slightly higher cost, as pads are not expensive.

 

There is a another benefit to this as 'new' pads mean the Piston is pretty much fully retracted into the Caliper Bore, which results in only a small surface area of Caliper piston being exposed and able to rust.

 

Obviously freely sliding Calipers and pads should mean the Discs don't come to a premature end through excess wear/overheating/warping, which is definitely a bill worth trying to avoid.

 

 

Uneven tyre wear on the rear axle is sometimes a sign of a sticky Caliper on one side

 

 

I knew my car ones were last changed in 2011, according to the service history, yet were only half worn. I recently replaced them anyway and the improved braking benefit was obvious even before they had fully bedded in.

 

 

I change my antifreeze every 5 years (I used to do it every 3 years but long life antifreeze is now so good) to ensure the Anti Corrosion and anti freezing additives are at their best.

 

 

 

 

[Don636]

Thank you for the informed advice re stripping the callipers and changing pads, which a few people have commented on. Would any problems such as sticking pistons or uneven pad wear be capable of being picked up through a wheels off visual inspection or through the brake test as part of the MOT? No comments were made to me about any such problems now or the likelihood of such in the near future. I would have thought that if there was a real problem the garage would have been pushing for the work by pointing out these problems. I am not aware of any braking issues such as pulling or poor performance. The brake fluid was changed but I can’t really detect any difference on the drive home although that was a low speed drive and I might notice more difference next time I drive down a steep hill!

[aandncaravan]

Yes and no,

If the brakes are in the early stages of sticking, the drive to the garage is usually enough to free them up so the drag is either reduced to zero or just low levels, especially if the driver does as is often advised and goes for a slightly longer and harder drive on the way to the MOT to clean up emissions by getting the DPF/Cat really hot..

 

 

We had a Transit in that had 'sailed' through an MOT 5 weeks before without even an advisory.

Yet when we did the service it was clear that both front brakes were seizing on.

 

The owner thought we were pulling a fast one because the van 'drove so well' without apparent issue and came down to see.

He was physically unable to rotate the front near side wheel, it was that tight.

 

He agreed the work, which we then wished we hadn't pointed out as it became a bit of a nightmare.

 

The nearside piston was very badly rusted, the bore poor so we were not able to save it, but we rebuilt the offside with new seals.

Trying to source a new nearside Caliper took three days. Bleeding new Brake Fluid through was fraught as both rear brake bleed screws were seized solid, Brake fluid clearly original..

Both front discs were warped.

 

Obviously the Pads were shot, really cracked and one starting to part company with the metal backing. We think they were factory original as the van had covered 15k in just 11 years.

 

A pad change every 5 years would have saved the Discs, Calipers, Bleed nipple issues, etc. A massive bill might have been avoided.

 

 

So yes a wheel off service can identify sticking brakes, but they will be less obvious if the vehicle has been driven.

Sadly, it is time consuming to jack the van up, let alone remove the wheels, so not all Garages do it.

 

 

When we were doing Caravan services it was not unusual to remove the Brake drums and find we were the first to be in there since new, despite a long record of 'servicing' from the main dealer.