Alko axle greasing

[grandadbaza]

I have a 2010 auto trail motorhome on alko chassis with twin rear axles , on applying grease via the nipples underneath on one the grease can be seen coming out at the end of the axle tube next to the swinging arm is this normal or is the axle in need of replacement/repair

 

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Pumping grease into an AL-KO axle until the grease emerges from the axle’s outer seal was discussed here

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Lubricating-AL-KO-rear-axle/46652/

 

There’s no reason to think that what you’ve seen indicates anything wrong with your motorhome’s axle, it’s more whether deliberately pumping in grease until it is seen to emerge is the ‘right’ or ‘best’ way to carry out the greasing procedure.

 

Suggest you ask AL-KO to adjudicate...

[teflon2]

I take it that you took all the weight off of the axles before greasing (?)

[Derek Uzzell]

Do you know why that matters, please?

[grandadbaza]

teflon2 - 2019-05-06 6:09 PM

 

I take it that you took all the weight off of the axles before greasing (?)

 

Yes had it jacked up off the ground with the vans hydraulic levelling legs

 

I have emailed Alko for there advice

[747]

8 to 10 pumps with a hand operated grease gun is the recommended amount ... only.

 

As said, with the axle jacked up and wheels clear of the ground.

[Derek Uzzell]

AL-KO’s current advice for a ‘needs to be greased’ AMC rear-axle is

 

Note: The rear axle must be greased when the rear axle is not loaded. If the vehicle is fitted with AL-KO Air Suspension, Air Premium the axle is maintenance free.

 

So, provided that the axle’s suspension is at full downwards travel, there’s apparently no need to have the road-wheel off the ground.

 

The two plain sintered-metal bearings fitted to each end of a greasable AL-KO AMC axle are designed to hold grease. When the motorhome is being driven the movement between the bearing and axle surfaces will be relatively small. I’ve assumed that the reason for AL-KO advising that the axle’s swinging-arm should be at ‘full droop’ before greasing is carried out is so that grease that enters through each bearing’s edge is then ‘smeared’ across the axle’s surface as the swinging-arm is returned to the position it is normally in when the motorhome is being driven - but I’ve never come across anything to confirm this.

 

 

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

The Weakest point of them. Proven by the fact of broken torsion bars in practice. If not greased properly at the Mile limit, or at least Every Year. It works like the VW beetle in the past who had them L/R. The problem is that the swing arm rotate only a certain amount between unloaded (Wheel off ground) and fully loaded. These are the setting positions to assemble the swing arm. Alko has a table for that. Ride height and bump stop ETC. The max play is 0.5 mm. The outer bearing bush takes more load than the inner and degrades first. See the forums and pictures. of worn out bushes. That is why have a needle bearing there on maintenance free axle. On the outer bearing is a inner seal to stop the grease and a outer bigger Mud seal. Alko never said on paper to pump till grease come out. but just gave amount of grease. The grease feed nipple sits about midway between the two bearings about 3 inches long. If grease comes out at the inner seal and outer you have more grease on the other end where there are no seals at all. So you just fill the axle tube whit it. But it is the only effective way to be sure. Do about 14 bumps after greasing. There are no lifetime track records on the grease or grease free axle. Do not forget the wheels are fiat and brakes but not the hand brake which is alko. DO NOT APPLY ALKO HAND BRAKE when working on their axle. Why is that is another subject

[grandadbaza]

I had a very long conversation with a very pleasant and informative guy at https://www.fraserbrowneng.co.uk/ (They amongst other things remanufacture Alko axles) today and he said it was not a lot to worry about and the seal can be replaced very easy without stripping anything down and he even offered to send me the seal free of charge.

The thing he was most keen to point out that the greasing points that Alko provide are not fit for purpose and when they have axles in to rebuild they always fit 2 grease points to each end of the axle that get the grease to where it should be, he went to great lengths to explain with detailed measurements how easy it is for a competent diy'er to fit them themselves

Very impressed with this company did not try to sell me anything and had the time to give free advice and free seals

[Derek Uzzell]

I’d be very surprised if the outer grease-seal of an AL-KO AMC axle can be replaced “very easily without stripping anything down”, though I accept that it might be replaceable fairly easily once the trailing-arm had been removed from the end of the axle-assembly and (although I’ve never attempted this myself) that this removal might be carried out by a competent DIYer with a reasonable tool-kit.

 

As will be evident from the 2nd video-clip here

 

https://www.fraserbrowneng.co.uk/index.php?c=al-ko-axle-repair

 

Fraser Brown’s axle remanufacturing process involves some major engineering procedures.

 

The video

 

 

relating to their “Nipple Therapy” modification shows a brake-calliper’s broken bleed-nipple being drilled out by a special tool, the resultant hole being tapped and an insert being fitted. This is a relatively simple engineering task in principle (and could save a lot of money)

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Sheared-brake-bleed-nipple/51803/

 

but even this ‘simple’ task is not one to be approached lightly.

 

The inadequacy of AL-KO’s philosophy of pumping grease into the void between an AMC axle’s two outer bearings has been discussed here before. I think it’s accepted that Fraser Brown's approach - modifying the bearings and fitting a per-bearing external nipple so that grease directly enters the bearings themselves rather than the void - is superior, but I can’t imagine that modification being carried out properly other than by a professional engineering firm. It should be possible for a “competent DIYer” to drill a hole through the axle-casing and the bearings inside and then fit a grease nipple, but Frazer Brown’s approach goes much further than that. Either Scottish DIYers are exceptiionally competent or Fraser Brown are very optimistic about DIYers generally.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Fraser- Brown has no experience on BTR Axles in question.

[Derek Uzzell]

I notice that you mentioned the “BT” and “BTR” AL-KO axles in your posting of 28 October 2016 5:24 PM here

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/alko-amc-rear-axle-s-GREASING/45650/

 

Although the design of the torsion-bars differs for the BTR axle (I’m guessing that the “R” of BTR indicates that the torsion-bars are Round) as far as I’m aware the bearing design/arrangement is unchanged (2 plain bearings at each end of the axle) and the recommended greasing method (pump grease into the void between the two bearings) is the same as with the earlier BT axle.

 

If the bearings of current AL-KO AMC axles are still the same and the greasing method has not altered, the age-old problem of properly lubricating the bearings will persist and it won’t much matter whether Fraser Brown has no experience of the BTR axles.

 

However, if there have been changes down the line and AL-KO has altered the design of the bearings and/or positioned the grease-nipples so that the grease enter directly into the bearings rather than into the void between them, it will be important for motorhome owners to know this. It would also be useful for Fraser Brown’s website to draw attention to any such changes as there’s no information there to suggest that AL-KO might have ’solved’ the potential problem of inadequate bearing lubrication.

 

I also notice that (3 years or so ago) you were asking for similar information on the Practical Motorhome forum

 

https://www.practicalmotorhome.com/forum/belgium/1348-al-ko-amc-btr-axle-maintenance

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Nice thinking Derek. But The BT AND BTR are different. Since they are fabricated in AL-KO Louhans France does not mean that BT means barre torson and BTR barre torsion ronde. And they not the same in layout. The bearings are not sintered metal but they have a anti friction run in layer. One bearing stands above my stove in my living along whit the inner seal and the outer seal. The Siamese twin. But Fraser- Brown is a excellent axle repairer, but not on BTR. They do not seen them in practice or can handle them. The cheapest way to get a grease free alko axle is the option of the patented ALC level controller . I am right now on a weekend dog festival and my partner starts up a generator who his in in back of a burstner from the uk And having A frame fiat car on the back. Big spectacle by others.Battery flat. Huge generator She had. Not a man around and driving the largest bursrtner motorhome and front screen ever made.

[Derek Uzzell]

Accepting that the BT and BTR axles are different, is the method of getting greae into the bearings the same or not?

 

It must be accepted that pumping greae into the void between the bearings of a BT axle is a crude method of lubrication, and it’s what Fraser Brown (FB) criticises and what the company’s modification addresses.

 

If a grease-into-the-void lubricating method continues to be used with BTR axles, FB’s criticisms still seem to be relevant. If the lubricating method for BTR axles differs, and the bearings are directly lubricated, that’s another matter altogether.

 

You are the forum’s AL-KO axle expert. Can you post some images showing the differences between the BT and BTR axles, please? The only (attached below) thing I can find on-line I assume relates to a BT axle and appears to show a pair of grease nipples on the axle’s underside.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Thanks for the compliment Derek. But i drive a VW T 6 now. It is over about alko torsion bar axles for me. About any question from a forum member I Am Ready. The high pressure of the grease pump find his way around the the two bearings whit one hole in it and splinted in one side. Their fixed position of the outer one where the grease nipple enters is critical. The axles are fit together in France and transported to ettenbeuren and alko uk. Complete whit the L/R Axle blocks and fiat brakes. The clou about the bearings lies in alko louhans which i was talking to them when a assembly video was there. But not a result how the damn thing was assembled. A Axle is Tear and Wear but for me it just money.