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Alloy wheels


steveandlisa

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Hello,

I`m thinking of making my 2012 Bailey 740se Approach on a Peugeot Boxer look a bit smarter looking and give it a bit more road "cred" by fitting a set of alloys. I`ve found a set to fit with https://www.tyremen.co.uk/guide/peugeot-boxer-motorhome-alloy-wheels £460 set of four. Will probably fit Continental Vanco campers 215/70R/15 tyres. Hopefully this shouldn't upset the weight and running capabilities of the mo/home. (?)

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

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Kennyh - 2019-03-21 7:04 AM

 

Steel wheels are not lighter than alloy wheels (there maybe of course a few outlying exceptions).

 

Whether you like them or not is a personal issue - I do.

 

Conversely, you can also say that alloy wheels are not lighter than steel wheels!

 

Or not by enough that makes any difference, anyway. Whilst alloy wheels fitted to racing cars are much lighter, wheels intended for road use are heavier castings (in an attempt) to give them strength for safety reasons - something that they still fail at in my experience.

 

Having examined thousands of vehicles involved in collisions over my career, I have observed that alloy wheels are less forgiving of even fairly minor impacts and I have seen many which have suffered catastrophic failures as a result. You may have gathered that I don't like them!

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Deneb - 2019-03-21 8:51 AM

 

Kennyh - 2019-03-21 7:04 AM

 

Steel wheels are not lighter than alloy wheels (there maybe of course a few outlying exceptions).

 

Whether you like them or not is a personal issue - I do.

 

Conversely, you can also say that alloy wheels are not lighter than steel wheels!

 

Or not by enough that makes any difference, anyway. Whilst alloy wheels fitted to racing cars are much lighter, wheels intended for road use are heavier castings (in an attempt) to give them strength for safety reasons - something that they still fail at in my experience.

 

Having examined thousands of vehicles involved in collisions over my career, I have observed that alloy wheels are less forgiving of even fairly minor impacts and I have seen many which have suffered catastrophic failures as a result. You may have gathered that I don't like them!

 

Do you post on MH Fun?

Someone on there was talking about brakes the other day and were a vehicle examiner.

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Billggski - 2019-03-21 9:49 AM

 

I find them easier to clean and don't rust. Steel wheels can look quite tatty after a few years.

It's a matter of choice, as the replies show.

 

I’ve never found alloys easy to clean, in fact quite the opposite. Another huge downside is the damage suffered when they get “kerbed”. Steels for me every time.

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steveandlisa - 2019-03-21 12:02 AM

 

Hello,

I`m thinking of making my 2012 Bailey 740se Approach on a Peugeot Boxer look a bit smarter looking and give it a bit more road "cred" by fitting a set of alloys. I`ve found a set to fit with https://www.tyremen.co.uk/guide/peugeot-boxer-motorhome-alloy-wheels £460 set of four. Will probably fit Continental Vanco campers 215/70R/15 tyres. Hopefully this shouldn't upset the weight and running capabilities of the mo/home. (?)

 

Steve

 

The “Tyremen” company has been around for a while and has been referred to here before

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=tyremen&author=&days=&Submit=Search

 

Replacing your Bailey motorhome’s steel wheels with aluminium equivalents is likely to result in a small reduction in unsprung weight as an aluminium wheel will normally be lighter than the steel wheel it replaces. You might also find that the rim-width of the £460-per-set aluminium wheels is a bit wider than that of your present steel wheels (say 6.5” rather than 6”) - but neither a potential small wheel-weight reduction, nor a small possible rim-width increase, are likely to have any noticeable effect on your Bailey’s road-holding or handling.

 

Rather than choosing ‘camper’ tyres (ie. tyres that carry a “CP” marking) I suggest you opt instead for the Hankook Vantra LT (RA18) tyres that were recently discussed here

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Hankook-tyres-/51637/

 

The Hankook RA18 is M+S-marked and available in 215/70 R15C 109/107S specification or 225/70 R15C 112/110S specification, with little if any price-difference between the two specifications. Either the 215 or 225 width SHOULD be OK for your motorhome. (If you are currently using the very high inflation-pressures normally advised for ‘camper’ tyres, you’d need to adjust those pressures downwards if “C”-marked tyres (like the RA18 tyres) were to be fitted.)

 

As I’ve said in the past I’m no fan of having alloy wheels on a motorhome - and I definitely would not retro-fit them. Their increased vulnerability to damage has been highlighted above and it’s mentioned on this Tyremen webpage

 

https://www.tyremen.co.uk/blog/steel-wheels-motorhomes-single-and-tag-axles

 

but it’s your money not mine...

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Like starvin marvin, I don't find my alloys easy to clean. It takes time, the brake dust can be hard to shift and if you want to retain the look, they need cleaning frequently - very frequently. Not kerbed them so cannot comment although the nearest powder coating firm for my motorhome had several cars in for alloy repairs following kerbing.

 

My first set of Hymer 'diamond cut' alloys on my present van were replaced under warranty within a year because the lacquer was peeling. My second pair lasted 4 years before they tarnished but then I had them powder coated. 10 months later, they do look good after a wash with just water. I've been told not to use any chemical cleaner on them, just a polish every now and again and a very regular wash with water.

 

I dream of a return to the simplicity of steel wheels ...

 

My insurance company [Comfort] said it should be advised if the alloys are not the original equipment. If you tell the insurers, enclose a photo so it knows what the alloy wheel looks like.

 

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My comment on there being no weight difference between steel and alloy wheels was a little tongue in cheek, but...

 

Certainly in relation to car wheels, the modern trend at least in the UK, is to substitute sensibly sized steel wheels with ridiculously oversize alloys shod with ultra low profile tyres. I can tell you from lifting plenty of the things on and off of cars, that there is very little if any weight benefit apparent between say a 15 inch steel wheel and a 17 inch alloy on the same model of car. So very little if any unsprung weight advantage and the only "advantage" I can see is they satisfy the current trend to seemingly bling the appearance of everything up to levels that I personally could never describe as tasteful. Just my opinion of course!

 

However, what there can be no doubt over in my experience is the different behaviour of the two types of wheels following impacts, including what might be considered fairly minor incidents such as kerbing or hitting severe potholes or debris in the road.

 

Steel wheels can deform on an impact, but it often takes quite a serious impact in my experience for such deformation to compromise the seal between the wheel and tyre or affect the ability of the driver to retain some control over the vehicle. I have never seen a steel wheel detach from its hub due to an impact where it was fitted with suitably sized and tightened wheel bolts, but I have seen wheels still attached to the hub completely detach from vehicles in severe impacts due to broken suspension components etc.

 

Alloy wheel don't deform, or at least not appreciably and rarely until their rigidity has already been compromised by damage. What they do is fracture, rather like an eggshell or best china tea set. Some of the typical and not infrequent damage that I have encountered following even relatively minor impacts includes:

 

Wheels and tyres completely detaching from the vehicle due to the spokes having fractured around the entire circumference between the hub and wheel well.

 

Wheels fracturing radially across the well resulting in instant and complete deflation of the tyre.

 

Fragments of fractured wheel puncturing or ripping through the tyre with similar results.

 

Detached or radially fractured wheels becoming wedged between the hub and brake, or between the hub, brake assembly and suspension components, causing sudden and complete lock up of the wheel and sometimes also total loss of steering control.

 

Detached wheels and tyres forced into the rear of the wheel well with similar results to the above, also resulting in sometimes substantial deformation of the adjacent bodyshell, including protrusion of the footwell into the passenger compartment, sometimes with resulting injuries to occupants including trapped feet or legs.

 

It probably doesn't take too much imagination to understand what will happen to a vehicle if one wheel suddenly and instantly completely locks up and/or the steering effectively jams removing any hope of control from the driver.

 

Perhaps that helps to understand why I dislike them so much. I realise it is often impossible to specify a UK specification car without them these days, but it is usually possible to select a smaller diameter wheel and higher profile tyre option to at least mitigate the risks somewhat (as well as often improving the ride quality).

 

I tend to buy my cars nearly new and run them until they are no longer economically viable. Every car that I have owned which has been fitted with alloy wheels has suffered air leaks between the rim and tyre on one or more wheels at some time during its life.

 

At least with the MH I could specify steel wheels and all they will possibly need is a rub down and new coat of paint occasionally.

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There is a side-benefit from retro-fitting alloy wheels to a motorhome - it’s that the steel wheels that have been removed should be quite cheaply obtainable for anyone wishing to carry a spare-wheel on a motorhome that does not already have one.

 

My 2015 Rapido came with no spare-wheel, but I managed to purchase a 15” OE Fiat Ducato steel wheel (to match the Rapido’s steel wheels) that had been removed from a new motorhome to which alloy wheels had been retro-fitted. The wheel clearly had been fitted to a vehicle as it carried a balance-weight, but it was otherwise in pristine condition. The packaging indicated that the wheel had travelled from Germany to a company in the north of England and was then forwarded on to me. I think I paid about £45 including VAT and carriage.

 

My Rapido has the usual Fiat plastic wheel trims and I’ve scarred the domed centres of the two right-hand-side trims while manoeuvring the motorhome at home. Should I ever feel in a ‘cosmetically saddened’ mood, a set of four brand-new trims is currently advertised on-line for £71.

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I have alloy wheels on my van and would never have steel. Alloys look much better in my opinion and so, I guess, do most people. Alloys are easy to keep clean as long as you keep on top of it and keep them polished as this makes it easier to wash brake dust off. When cleaning I clean the inside of the wheel rim and behind the spokes to get rid of any brake dust build up.

 

When touring around I carry an old spray bottle filled with a soapy mixture and quickly spray the wheels and wipe off at the end of the day - takes less than 10 minutes. I can hear the anti alloy wheel brigade now saying that they couldn’t be bothered with this faff. I don’t see it as any different from having to get washed every day or having to do the dishes or any other daily routine chore so what’s the problem. In any case steel wheels need just as much care surely to stop them rusting. In fact I think it is virtually impossible to stop steel wheels rusting unless you pay for a really good paint finish and then look after them the same as alloys. As for kerbing that is unlikely as the tyre profile is so deep and I have never had any such problem with the van whereas every car I have had has suffered some kerb damage due to the low profile no matter how careful I think I am being.

 

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Derek Uzzell - 2019-03-24 1:45 PM

My Rapido has the usual Fiat plastic wheel trims and I’ve scarred the domed centres of the two right-hand-side trims while manoeuvring the motorhome at home. Should I ever feel in a ‘cosmetically saddened’ mood, a set of four brand-new trims is currently advertised on-line for £71.

 

I removed the full diameter plastic wheel trims and replaced them with the Fiat centre caps that locate under the wheel nuts. Easier to keep the wheel clean and to remove the valve caps. I have also scuffed one, but a few minutes with wet and dry paper and a can of silver spray paint and you'd never know. I've seen them being sold new for about £7 or so on eBay.

 

Another benefit is the ease of fitting snow chains and I didn't have to buy expensive chains with wheel protectors.

 

I must get round to putting the original trims on eBay!

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Each to their own, but my "Rimfire" alloys are totally smooth five spokes rather than the standard ten hole Fiat original steels. A quick wipe brings them up shiny and new after five years' use. I've had steels bend their rim on kerbs in the past, and had alloys repaired quite reasonably when damaged.

(My wife has just kerbed an alloy on her mini so I'd better keep quiet, it was the other idiot's fault)

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Don636 - 2019-03-24 1:57 PM

As for kerbing that is unlikely as the tyre profile is so deep and I have never had any such problem with the van whereas every car I have had has suffered some kerb damage due to the low profile no matter how careful I think I am being.

 

My first trip in our van, driving back from the dealer, I hit a pothole about 20 miles from home. Its depth wasn't readily apparent until too late due to driving into bright sunlight and there was no way to avoid it because of the width of the road and approaching traffic.

 

Anyway, to say that there was quite a jolt is an understatement. No obvious damage at the time, but when I got home and had the van up on a jack, I found the pad wear sensor and its bracket had been ripped off, and paint had been rubbed from the inner edge of the wheel rim where it must have contacted the sensor bracket. I removed the wheel and tyre to check for further damage including wheel distortion and the internal tyre wall of which there was none, and also had the steering geometry checked. Easy enough to repair, but almost certainly an alloy wheel would not have fared so well.

 

The default tyre pressures didn't help, but as I hadn't yet had the opportunity to investigate actual axle weights I hadn't wanted to fiddle with them.

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Just thinking, my spare wheel is steel and it is tucked up at the rear of the chassis, well protected from muck and spray, especially as the van has mud flaps fitted. It never seems to get dirty so I know it is well protected yet every year I have to deal with minor rust round the rim, around the wheel nut holes and here and there on the rest of the wheel and paint the whole front face. It looks unsightly and even though it is under the van I still like to keep it looking in good condition. The thought of having to deal with 5 steel wheels in most likely worse condition every year confirms to me that alloys are much easier to look after as they only require cleaning and always look way better than cheap builders van steel wheels.
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Like Bill my alloys are a smooth 5 spoke design and this definitely helps in keeping them clean as there are no awkward narrow spokes to work round. It makes it easy to give them a spray and wipe at the end of the day so they always look like new.
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