blaven Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Because we live in the Highlands, the best continental crossing for us is Newcastle Amsterdam. In September we need to get to Nice. A cursory look at the map shows we need to travel pretty much due south through Belgium until we get to France. I don’t particularly want to travel down the Rhone corridor again to Aix, but would prefer a more easterly route. It’s decades since I was in that region of eastern France. We are not in a particular hurry, but at the same time would prefer a decent road not necessarily of motorway standard, with some interesting places to overnight or stay a few days. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Autoroute says fastest route is Amsterdam, Cologne, Frankfurt, Basel (where you enter Switzerland), Como (where you leave Switzerland), Milan, Tortona, Genoa (this passes west of the collapsed Merandi bridge!), and then along Ligurian coast to France at Ventimiglia - though you'll almost certainly get stopped by the French Police National crossing into France from Italy. It's certainly a more easterly route, and toll free to the Swiss border (vignette required for Switzerland) and, as above, though counter-intuitive, comes out quickest. It is pretty well all motorway standard, which is why it is quickest. However, there are doubtless non-motorway parallel routes. You'll either have to cross Switzerland, or go round it. To the west, that means staying west of Geneva, and to the east, that means crossing Austria, most logically via the Fern and Reschen passes. If staying west of Geneva, you'll either have to cross, or go round the southern Alps. A CritAir LEZ pass would be wise if using that side, esp if likely to go into/near Grenoble. The Grenoble LEZ, is, I believe, only activated when atmospheric conditions dictate - but do check this. A German LEZ sticker would also be wise, as most of theirs seem to be in permanent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaven Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 Thank you, Brian. I'm intrigued by the possibility of being stopped by the Police National upon crossing from Italy to France. Why is this please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-07-21 11:52 AM .A German LEZ sticker would also be wise, as most of theirs seem to be in permanent. Brian - will n Be travelling down the Black Foest from Luxembourg towards Base. Will I possibly need a German LEZ for that? Thanks Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 The great majority of transit routes, even through otherwise LEZ areas, are exempt, so unless you intend to enter some of the areas, rather than traverse on the main roads/autoroutes, you shouldn't need an "Umweltplakette". In any case, infractions are manually (not CCTV) enforced, and the penalties are nowhere near as draconian as London. I would normally recommend buying one (as they are only €6 incl post from Berlin, and are lifetime valid), but I suspect your 'van might only get a yellow one, and as most zones have upgraded to a green requirement, it may not be worth it. Application: https://www.berlin.de/labo/mobilitaet/kfz-zulassung/feinstaubplakette/shop.86595.en.php Category for "foreign" vehicles: https://www.berlin.de/senuvk/umwelt/luftqualitaet/umweltzone/en/ausland.shtml (Green will be 1st registered on or after Jan 1st 2006, or Oct 1st 2006 depending on whether they notice you're a"truck") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 From Amsterdam drive through Belgium and Luxembourg (fill the tank here !!!). From Luxembourg enters France towards Metz (all free motorway). From Metz on national roads go towards Saverne and then Strasbourg. In front of you the Alsace region plenty of beautiful villages and nice towns: Starburgo itself, Colmar, Mulhouse, Thann, and so on. Then you can go down to Basel (Swiss and Italy) or to Belfort-Besancon trough France. Swiss motorways require the "vignette" for vehicles under 3.5 tons (the equivalent of 36.5€). Over 3.5 you must stop at custom office and buy the season ticket, unbeliavable but it should cost less than the vignette. Max P.S. Never found a control at the I-F border of Ventimiglia (I'm Italian and I live in Italy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 You don't need it if driving on motorway and national roads. Info at https://www.umwelt-plakette.de/en/information-about-german-environmental-badge.html You can probablly buy/order the sticker in advance at one of DEKRA office in the UK. Usually they ask for copy of vehicle registration document stating polluiton eu-class. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 blaven - 2019-07-21 1:31 PM Thank you, Brian. I'm intrigued by the possibility of being stopped by the Police National upon crossing from Italy to France. Why is this please? Hi I would also be interested in the reason for being stopped. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 peterjl - 2019-07-21 4:24 PM blaven - 2019-07-21 1:31 PM Thank you, Brian. I'm intrigued by the possibility of being stopped by the Police National upon crossing from Italy to France. Why is this please? Hi I would also be interested in the reason for being stopped. Peter Just that we were stopped at Claviere (near Briancon) exiting Italy in early June this year. They just wanted to see who was in the van. I assumed they were looking for migrants entering France from Italy. Was only a short stop, all non-local traffic was being stopped. So, as the Ventimiglia crossing has been a favoured crossing point into France for migrants who have travelled up through Italy, and as it is a busy crossing point, I assume it is at least liable to periodic checks. The German border police were also checking all traffic exiting Austria near Fussen in late May. Not a problem, but just to be aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-07-21 7:29 PM The German border police were also checking all traffic exiting Austria near Fussen in late May. Not a problem, but just to be aware of. The German border police have been monitoring all main crossing points from Austria for some years, including the motorways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 There are a number of routes (and stopping places) that could fit your requirements, but I hesitate to recommend "the road less traveled" without a few hints on what you find interesting, and how you pass your time when stopped. (I know you have e-bikes, for example but don't know how much that occupies you when abroad). Whatever route, the bottom part is the most problematic, where you are likely to find yourself "sucked" back West to the Rhone valley, or traversing Switzerland and Italy to the East avoid it. I could easily define a route using mainly (good, from personal experience) Stellplatze/Aires for much of the way, mixing rural and urban visits to add some variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaven Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 Robinhood - 2019-07-21 8:22 PM There are a number of routes (and stopping places) that could fit your requirements, but I hesitate to recommend "the road less traveled" without a few hints on what you find interesting, and how you pass your time when stopped. (I know you have e-bikes, for example but don't know how much that occupies you when abroad). Whatever route, the bottom part is the most problematic, where you are likely to find yourself "sucked" back West to the Rhone valley, or traversing Switzerland and Italy to the East avoid it. I could easily define a route using mainly (good, from personal experience) Stellplatze/Aires for much of the way, mixing rural and urban visits to add some variety. Thank you. We hope to travel initially through the Ardennes and stopping near Bastogne for a look, although the ACSI campsite there has somewhat mixed reviews ( enough to put my wife off)! Thence to Langres for maybe 2-3 nights. Our preference is to travel through France. Not carrying bikes this time (Holland, only, for us) plus too much crime in South of France. We recognise that there will be a tendency to get sucked back into the Rhône valley and are resigned to it. By that time we’ll need to get a wiggle on anyway and the motorway will becon for the final stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 OK, alternatives. (BTW, I forgot to give the parameters for the fastest route as above. Distance 862 miles: time 2 days + 30 minutes. (This is a computer, remember! :-))) Common factors for all routes: drive 09:00 to 17:00 with one hour break after 3.5 hours driving. All assume lower speeds for motorhome.) Route 2 (via Clermont Ferrand to use toll free A75 south): Amsterdam, Antwerp, Lille, Arras, Paris, Orleans, Bourges, Clermont-Ferrand, Millau, Montpellier, Nimes, Aix, Nice. Distance 980 miles: time 2 days + 3 hours. Route 3 (the shortest route): Amsterdam, Utrecht, Breda, Tienen, Namur, Sedan, Dijon, Chalon-sur-Saone, Bourg-en-Bresse, Grenoble (LEZ), Aspres-sur-Buech, Sisteron, Digne, St Julien-du-Verdon, Entrevaux, Le-Plan-du-Var, Nice. Distance 792 miles: time 3 days. Route 4 (using main roads but no toll roads): Amsterdam, Antwerp, Brussels, Namur, Nancy, Besancon, Bourg-en-Bresse, Grenoble, Aspres-sur-Buech, Digne, and then as 3 above. Distance 837 miles: time 2 days 4 hours. So, depending on route/roads, 2/3 days actual driving (times/break as above), 800 - 980 miles distance. Just food for thought. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaven Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 Many thanks for all your input. Certainly food for thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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