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I am really struggling to remove the badly rusted screws that screw the aluminium corner extrusion to my Motorhome, that as a groove for the Herzim pvc strip to go into to cover the screws.

 

The Herzim strip was completely brittle and just broke off in bits as I tried to remove it. I have sprayed the screws with WD40 and left to soak over night, then applied some more, tried firstly just removing them with a Philips hand screwdriver with no luck, damages the heads even more, tried with my dewalt drill, no luck, Tried drilling them out but they are so hard they blunt or snap the bits even titanium ones. Tried tips like using a rubber band over the screw for extra bite when using screwdriver. Trouble is some of them don't even have much of a head left to do anything with.

 

Was thinking as a last resort using my small grinder to grind a slot in the heads to try and remove with a flat screwdriver, but worried about the size of the disc and speed causing damage to the aluminium extrusion.

 

As anyone else suffered this same problem, I would love to hear your comments on how you got over it and solved this pain in neck of a job.

Paul

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Try a proper Penetrating Fluid. WD40 is a Water Dispersant (hence WD) and rubbish at anything else.

It doesn't penetrate that great or lubricate very well and attacks some Plastics.

 

There are lots of good Penetrating fluids available that will also lubricate, making it easier to unscrew the fixings once freed up.

 

We had a mechanic start with us who swore by the stuff, but when we got him to try a real penetrating fluid he could not believe the difference.

 

It causes us no end of grief. It gets used as a Lubricant on Plastic locker hinges and the customer then wonders why the hinge, after initially being slightly more free, becomes more difficult than before as the WD attacks it.

 

If your lockers and door locks are stiff and awkward, suspect WD40 has been used in the past.

Dismantle, clean well, then use a quality Silicone Spray. Lots of it to wash of the WD40.

 

WD40 is primarily a water dispersant, it might have other 'side' attributes, like minor lubrication qualities, but there are much better specific Penetrating and lubrication products available.

 

Sorry coming back to your issue : If the screws are badly rusted then it indicates they are probably of a poorer quality steel so unlikely to be a hard steel.

 

When drilling the screws use a really slow speed + Oil to lubricate and cool the drill bit. A high drill speed will blunt the drill quickly.

It is confusing because the best drill bits are often sold as 'High Speed' bits suggesting they should be run at a High Speed.

 

You say you are using a Philips Head driver, could they be Posidrive screws? Or do you mean they are Cross Head screws and you are actually using a Posidrive when they might be older Philips?

I don't mean to be patronising, but we 'finish off' jobs for customers all the time when all that was needed was a quality tool. Experiment with driver bits, the best quality you can buy, it makes a huge difference.

 

These screws are difficult to remove, don't even try with the cheap driver bits, some of them seem to be made made of dried Rice.

 

 

 

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If there is still any usable slot in the screw head, hire/buy an "Impact Driver " Set to "drive" (screw inwards) then hit with the hammer. Reverse to Unscrew & hit again.

Screws that have become solid are often released by driving them further in by 1/2 or 1/2 turn first

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aandncaravan - 2016-03-20 11:06 PM

 

Try a proper Penetrating Fluid. WD40 is a Water Dispersant (hence WD) and rubbish at anything else.

It doesn't penetrate that great or lubricate very well and attacks some Plastics.

 

There are lots of good Penetrating fluids available that will also lubricate, making it easier to unscrew the fixings once freed up.

 

We had a mechanic start with us who swore by the stuff, but when we got him to try a real penetrating fluid he could not believe the difference.

 

It causes us no end of grief. It gets used as a Lubricant on Plastic locker hinges and the customer then wonders why the hinge, after initially being slightly more free, becomes more difficult than before as the WD attacks it.

 

If your lockers and door locks are stiff and awkward, suspect WD40 has been used in the past.

Dismantle, clean well, then use a quality Silicone Spray. Lots of it to wash of the WD40.

 

WD40 is primarily a water dispersant, it might have other 'side' attributes, like minor lubrication qualities, but there are much better specific Penetrating and lubrication products available.

 

Sorry coming back to your issue : If the screws are badly rusted then it indicates they are probably of a poorer quality steel so unlikely to be a hard steel.

 

When drilling the screws use a really slow speed + Oil to lubricate and cool the drill bit. A high drill speed will blunt the drill quickly.

It is confusing because the best drill bits are often sold as 'High Speed' bits suggesting they should be run at a High Speed.

 

You say you are using a Philips Head driver, could they be Posidrive screws? Or do you mean they are Cross Head screws and you are actually using a Posidrive when they might be older Philips?

I don't mean to be patronising, but we 'finish off' jobs for customers all the time when all that was needed was a quality tool. Experiment with driver bits, the best quality you can buy, it makes a huge difference.

 

These screws are difficult to remove, don't even try with the cheap driver bits, some of them seem to be made made of dried Rice.

 

 

 

Hi thank you for your reply, yes I know about WD40 and would never use it as a lubricant in servicing, WD40 is very good at what it does along with a million and one other little jobs around the house, car, workshop etc.

 

I will try a penetrating fluid to see if this helps, do you know which type (brand) your mechanic uses and swears by?

 

Yes they are the older plain Philips screws (not pozidrive) so using a good philips bit and only ever use trade quality bits with my dewalt drill/driver (I am a carpenter) and I have tried various driver bits, including small slotted in one of the cross head slots for a better fit.

 

The few I have got loose once loose either come out easy or I use a pair of mole grips to finish taking them out.

 

I want to clean and reseal the entire length of one side of my motorhome, before fitting new stainless steel A2 grade pozi screws and new pvc Herzim strip.

 

I have removed most of the aluminium extrusion at a costly expense as I got angry with it and forced it off, bending and twisting the 3m length of Extrusion and had to order 2 new lengths from Trigano/CI motorhomes direct from Italy at over £58

 

I am just left with the curved profile extrusion around the front over cab part, which obviously want to be extra specially careful when removing not to damage it, as it as a unique profile.

 

Got a feeling looking at the state of the screws and how brittle the pvc herzim strip was just falling apart that it as never been touched in the 19 years since manufactured ;-)

 

One of the previous owners liked to use standard silicone and applied it everywhere, beads either side of the extrusion all around the motorhome, windows, lockers etc which have aged, failed and look very dirty and nasty now.

 

What a job its turning out to be but completely necessary and avoidable, and once done I will have total piece of mind that the seams are all completely water tight.

 

My other dilemma is which sealant to use, I have bought like several different types and now confused which one to use initially I was going to use a product which I have used called: http://www.everbuild.co.uk/145-butyl-sealant

It's a rubber based butyl non setting sealant.

 

Then I thought I would use Hodgson Seamseal CV, but read you cannot use it with rubber gaskets, which is no good as the aluminium extrusion sits on a rubber gasket.

 

Bought several rolls of W4 butyl mastic tape, 3 different sizes, then read that this can dry out and cause leaks at a later date.

 

Also bought 4 tubes of Sikaflex 512 and 2 tubes of Sikaflex 221 but not sure if these are good as they are permanent and if for any reason the extrusion will need removing, will cause problems.

 

Decisions, Derisions!!

 

 

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hagrid - 2016-03-21 9:23 AM

 

Try AFC50

 

Hi thanks I have a can of this stuff and it's brilliant used widely in the Aircraft industry, military vehicles.

 

I bought it to apply to the underside of my aluminium roof after needed to strip the entire roof due to water ingress damage. The aluminium had pin holes everywhere (aluminium cancer some call it) I first cleaned off all the rust with a polishing disc and grinder, then filled the holes with fibreglass, and sprayed a coating of this over the inside of the roof left to soak then wiped off with a soft cloth, before commencing the rebuild of my roof.

 

Not sure it would be the right product for this job, will have to do some research.

 

Thanks for your comment

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Hi just a quick update after applying the WD40 the other evening and leaving it to soak, I have successfully removed about 2/3 of the screws quickly and easily in one go, I simply used an hand screwdriver, places it in the head, gave it a couple of hits with my hammer and out they popped.

 

The others are so badly corroded there is no recognisable head left just a rusted stump, which I'm not sure what to do with them. Think I will invest in a dremel tool of some kind and try the tiny disc cutter to either cut a slot in them to remove with a slotted screwdriver or even just cut the head off. Then take out the rest after I've removed the Aluminium extrusion with pliers or mole grips.

 

Funny how all the screws were covered with the same brittle worn pvc herzim strip but there seems to be a vast difference in how the screws have weathered, and there is no logical pattern to them. One screw the head was fine and came out easy the screw next to it so badly corroded you wouldn't even know it was a screw. Strange.

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Fiat Ducato - 2016-03-20 8:47 PM

 

I am really struggling to remove the badly rusted screws that screw the aluminium corner extrusion to my Motorhome, that as a groove for the Herzim pvc strip to go into to cover the screws.

 

The Herzim strip was completely brittle and just broke off in bits as I tried to remove it. I have sprayed the screws with WD40 and left to soak over night, then applied some more, tried firstly just removing them with a Philips hand screwdriver with no luck, damages the heads even more, tried with my dewalt drill, no luck, Tried drilling them out but they are so hard they blunt or snap the bits even titanium ones. Tried tips like using a rubber band over the screw for extra bite when using screwdriver. Trouble is some of them don't even have much of a head left to do anything with.

 

Was thinking as a last resort using my small grinder to grind a slot in the heads to try and remove with a flat screwdriver, but worried about the size of the disc and speed causing damage to the aluminium extrusion.

 

As anyone else suffered this same problem, I would love to hear your comments on how you got over it and solved this pain in neck of a job.

Paul

Had very similar problems when renewing the main sliding windows on my 1988 Autsleeper Talisman. All screws were corroded badly (why o why didn't they use stainless) agree with proper penetrating fluid rather than WD40, I cut new flat screwdriver heads into Phillips screws after soaking, some heads snapped off ,and had to be drilled out, some new screws had to be re-positioned (might not be possible with pre-drilled strip, unless you can turn it around, screws in different position ?) took 10 times longer than I planned for. Used all A4 stainless replacements from a Boat Chandlers, only pence extra than standard screws. Result was worth all the trouble, but hard work. All for the want of stainless steel screws in original assembly.......a few extra pence.

I used Sikaflex 512, as I didn't intend to ever take it apart again,it's good as a sealant as well as an excellent adhesive. Van never leaked again in the 5 more years that I had it. Good luck !

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Billggski - 2016-03-21 9:19 PM

 

Stainless steel isn't a perfect solution, "galling" can occur, where nuts and bolts fuse together, and aluminium/stainless steel is not a good mix.

http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=89

 

So what is then? very well saying this statement but then not offer up any alternative is just irritating and pointless really.

 

If you use standard screws they will corrode beyond recognition, and your saying stainless steel can cause a bi metallic corrosion reaction. Not sure what's left really?

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Fiat Ducato - 2016-03-21 9:57 PM
Billggski - 2016-03-21 9:19 PMStainless steel isn't a perfect solution, "galling" can occur, where nuts and bolts fuse together, and aluminium/stainless steel is not a good mix.http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=89
So what is then? very well saying this statement but then not offer up any alternative is just irritating and pointless really....

 

Threads like this one develop into discussions and sometimes broaden in scope as they go, so it's probably best not to see the thread purely in terms of benefit and relevance to you personally.

 

Your success with penetrating oil suggest that you should persist with that approach, failing which grinding or drilling the heads off will be the only viable avenue, so now that you have removed some screws buy yourself a really top quality drill of the right size and try that again.

 

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"Stainless" is quite a loose term when it comes to a metal called stainless. There is no single element called stainless. Its a metal made up from up to 15% Chromium (a metallic element) and a whole host of other elements depending on its final requirement. The more Chromium the better the resistance to outside elements. Having said that there is a limit where it becomes unworkable.

 

I'm talking here of my early working days. Modern foundry processes and mixtures may differ. But I see no changes in standard nuts, bolts and screws.

 

Ships Chandlers should hold the best quality products.

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Will H - 2016-03-22 9:21 AM

 

"Stainless" is quite a loose term when it comes to a metal called stainless. There is no single element called stainless. Its a metal made up from up to 15% Chromium (a metallic element) and a whole host of other elements depending on its final requirement. The more Chromium the better the resistance to outside elements. Having said that there is a limit where it becomes unworkable.

 

I'm talking here of my early working days. Modern foundry processes and mixtures may differ. But I see no changes in standard nuts, bolts and screws.

 

Ships Chandlers should hold the best quality products.

Living near the sea, as I do,I see the result of longterm exposure to the salt laden elements, stainless steel comes in different qualities (as you suggest) A2 is the poorer quality, A4 is the best or at least the best available widely, an alternative is brass, and that was used widely in shipping, along with copper, (Nelson's ships had copper sheathed hulls) but both suffer from being a bit soft the purer they are. For the OPs use I would recommend A4 stainless, Galvanised would work too, but when did you last see galvanised screws for sale ?

 

 

Ps I have galvanised gates, ordinary steel would turn back to oxide within a few years.

 

To the Op, you are doing fine, just let us argue amongst ourselves.

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I have a pair of very old (thus high grade hard steel) pincers with the jaws ground totally flat on their outer faces and a shallow chamfer on their inner faces.

I find this to be the most effective gripping tool I've ever had by using a combination of turning and general wriggling about for removing mangled or obstinate screws that have very little to grip.

 

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Fiat Ducato - 2016-03-21 5:54 PM

 

 

The others are so badly corroded there is no recognisable head left just a rusted stump, which I'm not sure what to do with them. Think I will invest in a dremel tool of some kind and try the tiny disc cutter to either cut a slot in them to remove with a slotted screwdriver or even just cut the head off. Then take out the rest after I've removed the Aluminium extrusion with pliers or mole grips.

.

 

Hi (Paul?)

 

So are these fixings tight in the frame(wood?) as well or is it just the fact that the heads have fused to the moulding?....

I was wondering, if you've got one end of the moulding free, could you carefully slid a slim drift (old wood chisel or steel rule?)behind it, keeping it within the width of the moulding, so as not to mark the visible panel and try clacking/shocking each fixing sideways, in turn as you go?...

Even if they still don't "unscrew" this may be enough to loosen them from the frame and allow you to lift/draw the moulding clear...? (you could then attack any screws that are still fused with it on the bench)

 

Keep at it, you're doing a grand job... :-D

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Rayjsj - 2016-03-22 9:55 AM

..stainless steel comes in different qualities (as you suggest) A2 is the poorer quality, A4 is the best or at least the best available widely.

 

A2 isn't 'poorer quality' it just has different qualities to A4 - both are of necessity a compromise.

A2 for example offers better resistance to fatigue and cracking than A4, while A4 is more resistant to crevice corrosion and pitting than A2. Neither is a poor relation though.

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