Banner vs Varta leisure batteries

[Ferie101]

Hi, Appears my leisure battery is dead. Been reading up reviews etc.

 

Seems Banner 96051 have excellent reviews as do Varta LFD140 batteries. Banner slight more expensive.

 

Both are 140ah battery. Any personal experience with either? Recomendations?

 

Thanks.

[Sydney1]

I have only ever used Banner. Have 2 of them on my AT Scout now. Never let me down

[Derek Uzzell]

Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Steven.

 

Technical details of the Banner battery are here

 

http://bannerbatterien.com/backend/datasheets/EN/010960510101.pdf

 

and product information for the Varta product can be downloaded from here

 

http://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/leisure/professional-dual-purpose/930-140-080

 

Both batterries are dimensionally similar, though I notice that Banner defines the Energy Bull 96051 battery as having 130Ah (K20) capacity not 140Ah.

 

The 96051 battery is a pure ‘deep cycle’ type and not designed to start a vehicle. A vent-tube can be fitted and its electrolyte-level can be topped up. Received wisdom is that Energy Bull batteries will ‘lose’ electrolyte in use and this needs to be taken into account. If your battery is to be sited where regular checking/topping-up of its electrolyte-level will be difficult (eg. sited beneath a swivelling cab-seat) it would be inadvisable to choose an Energy Bull battery. My 2015 Rapido motorhome has a 100Ah Energy Bull battery and, although this has performed OK (so far) it’s electrolyte-level does fall and needs keeping an eye on. However, as the Banner battery is housed in the Rapido’s rear garage and accessible, this is not a particularly difficult task. It’s worth adding that the vent-tube connection of an Energy Bull battery is non-standard and that the battery ’caps’ can be difficult to remove (to check/top up the electrolyte-level) without a suitable tool being used.

 

Varta LFD batteries are ‘dual purpose’ and may be used to start a vehicle. A vent-tube can be fitted but the electrolyte-level cannot be topped up. I’ve no personal experience of the LFD range, but you’ll find plenty of relevant information here

 

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php

 

and you might want to read your way through these earlier forum discussions

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=varta&author=aandncaravan&days=&Submit=Search

 

Banner Energy Bull batteries have been fitted as original equipment for several years by quite a few major motorhome manufacturers. This means that many thousands of Energy Bull batteries have been used by motorcaravanners for ‘habitation’ purposes. The electrolyte-level of some of those batteries will not have been properly maintained, some will have been driven into the ground and some will undoubtedly have failed prematurely.

 

Varta LFD batteries (to the best of my knowledge) have never been fitted as original equipment by motorhome manufacturers. Compared to Energy Bulls the number of Varta LFD batteries being used by motorcaravanners will be tiny. LFD batteries cannot be ‘maintained’ and their electrolyte loss in normal use is said to be near nil. I suspect too that motorcaravanners who choose to retrofit a Varta LFD battery are more technically savvy that average and will be aware of a habitation battery’s limitations and tend not to abuse it.

 

Whether a Banner Energy Bull battery is inherently less reliable than a Varta LFD battery is anybody’s guess as it’s not realistic (even if one could) to directly compare the experience of a small group of experienced motorcaravanners who have deliberately chosen the Varta product with thousands of ’man in the street’ motorcaravanners who buy motorhomes already fitted with the Banner batteries. Having said that, as expert advice from A & N Caravan Services strongly favours the LFD range over the Banner batteries and the Varta LFD140 is cheaper than the Energy Bull 96051, the Varta battery must be considered the logical choice.

[lennyhb]

Banner batteries are the biggest load of rubbish I have ever come across both mine failed after 18 months and more to the point they won't honer their warranty. They will only acept a CAA test which is a starter battery test which mine passed despite when under low load conditions they could only deliver 10A/H.

[Spireite]

We have had 2 Banner batteries, my choice, fitted for three years and have had no problems with them.

 

This year we spent 10 weeks (mid February to the end of April) living in the MH in the UK and four weeks this Summer in France with no hook up.

 

We do not have a TV which would possibly be a large drain on the batteries but we do have a Solar panel fitted.

 

Can't comment on Varta as I've never used them.

[Guest pelmetman]

Currently have a 2007 Varta as a starter battery, still OK.... but plan to replace both leisure and starter battery with two Varta dual purpose 70 ah batteries, before we cross the ditch for our grand tour in September :D .....

 

 

[lennyhb]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-07-27 7:51 AM

 

Whether a Banner Energy Bull battery is inherently less reliable than a Varta LFD battery is .

Look on the German forums and you will see how bad Banner batteries are. Biggest problem with Banner is they are a sh*t company, they market a battery as a leisure battery and when it fails they won't change it, if it passes a starter battery test.

[aandncaravan]

Hymer seem to have ditched Banner batteries as all the latest Hymers we have seen have Varta fitted. Don't know if that is a decision in Germany or just particular Dealers in the UK?

 

We had in a new 2016 vehicle for us to diagnose issues with the display behaving strangely and giving out false battery status information. I was surprised to see two Varta LFD 90's. The owner stated they had were in the van when he collected it new.

 

Anyone bought a new Hymer lately, what batteries did it have??

 

 

Lenny is right, the German forums are full of bad feeling against the Banner brand.

 

[Brian Kirby]

The batteries are fitted at the Hymer factory, so it will be a Hymer decision.

[Derek Uzzell]

lennyhb - 2016-08-08 7:37 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2016-07-27 7:51 AM

 

Whether a Banner Energy Bull battery is inherently less reliable than a Varta LFD battery is .

Look on the German forums and you will see how bad Banner batteries are. Biggest problem with Banner is they are a sh*t company, they market a battery as a leisure battery and when it fails they won't change it, if it passes a starter battery test.

 

If you are referring to Banner “Running Bull” AGM batteries, these are not specifically marketed as ‘leisure’ batteries (unlike Banner’s “Energy Bull” range). This should be plain from this Banner webpage

 

http://www.bannerbatterien.com/banner/produkte/batterien/running_bull/index2_en.php

 

It would be interesting to know what Varta’s stance would be regarding testingthe condition of an apparently knackered LFD ‘dual purpose’ battery, but I suspect that a CCA test would also be employed.

 

Just because a relatively small number of German motorcaravanners on German forums have reporetd problems with Banner batteies (Which ones - AGM or wet-acid?) does not invalidate the remainder of my statement from which you’ve conveniently chosen to select just the first 16 words.

 

Do you know the percentage of Banner batteries fitted to motorhomes that fail prematurely? Of course you don’t! Can Allan confidently say that Varta LFD batteries never fail prematurely? I very much doubt it.

[Derek Uzzell]

pelmetman - 2016-08-08 5:12 PM

 

Currently have a 2007 Varta as a starter battery, still OK.... but plan to replace both leisure and starter battery with two Varta dual purpose 70 ah batteries, before we cross the ditch for our grand tour in September :D .....

 

 

What’s the attraction of choosing two dual-purpose Varta batteries?

 

Surely it would be more logical to choose a Varta "Silver Dynamic” battery for starting (because that’s what it’s marketed for) and a dual-purpose (Varta LFD75?) for ‘leisure’ duties?

[lennyhb]

Fitting Varta AGM's was Hymer decision they are all fitted with them and they are failing just like the Banners.

[lennyhb]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-08-09 9:16 AM

If you are referring to Banner “Running Bull” AGM batteries, these are not specifically marketed as ‘leisure’ batteries (unlike Banner’s “Energy Bull” range). This should be plain from this Banner webpage

 

Quote from Running Bull AGM Brochure:

"The Running Bull is the first choice whenever vehicles with

special, additional electrical consumers, require large amounts

of power over prolonged periods."

 

Also talk to any Hymer dealer and they all say Banner are rubbish, our Belgium dealer ended up replacing the Banners before sale as he was having so many problems with them.

[KeithM]

Please excuse a newbie for interjecting, as there are obviously many experts on here.

 

The biggest cause of battery failure is that they are not looked after correctly. ;-)

 

I am a member of another forum, not MH connected but batteries are probably one of the most discussed topics on there as they are on here.

 

Very similar discussions ensue but nine time out of ten when the enquirer is questioned, it is a failure to correctly charge the battery(s) fully is the cause of battery failure.

 

Expensive batteries can be unserviceable just as quick as cheap ones. :'(

 

Rhetorical: When is a battery "fully" charged and how do you know it is?

 

 

[colin]

Our leisure battery is a Banner, I think it may be a AGM, seem to recall seeing a label which suggested that when fitting the Kobran, and that gives you some idea of the maintenance (or lack of) that it receives. 5 years old and still works, mainly I guess as the solar can only give it a little charge when parked at home due to it being under cover.

The starter battery on the other hand is on its way out, never recovered after having a low charge and -16c temps. Set up a small panel last winter to keep it topped up, but too late I fear. This has been the youngest dead original fit battery I've had on a vehicle, but my own fault I guess.

[Guest pelmetman]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-08-09 9:24 AM

 

pelmetman - 2016-08-08 5:12 PM

 

Currently have a 2007 Varta as a starter battery, still OK.... but plan to replace both leisure and starter battery with two Varta dual purpose 70 ah batteries, before we cross the ditch for our grand tour in September :D .....

 

 

What’s the attraction of choosing two dual-purpose Varta batteries?

 

Surely it would be more logical to choose a Varta "Silver Dynamic” battery for starting (because that’s what it’s marketed for) and a dual-purpose (Varta LFD75?) for ‘leisure’ duties?

 

Purely for the ease of swapping one to the other, should one have a hissy fit and not want to play anymore Derek ;-) .........

 

Plus I'm more than impressed with the performance of my 2007 Varta Starter......I believe my newer leisure battery is a Banner, though I think the logo is on the other side, but its black with a red top? :-S .......

That's been poorly for sometime, as it'll rarely last a day without hook up or a good road trip *-) .......

 

I also have this vague idea of swapping them occasionally..... on the theory that a change is as good as a rest :D ......

 

Works for me dunno..... if it'll work for a battery ;-) .......

 

 

[aandncaravan]

Derek, You are right I can't say that the Varta powerframes won't fail prematurely, because we have had a report last week.

But it is the FIRST report of an early failure since we started on about them in 2012 and I suspect the batteries have had abnormal use?

When we were contacted just over 2 years ago and recommended 2 x 100 Varta H3's the lady concerned responded saying they would go for 2 x 110Ah as they needed the extra capacity.

 

I have a recollection of discussions over a Washing machine installed in the Motorhome as well. It got my attention for obvious reasons!!! Even though it is a light weight 'mobile' unit the power drawn has got to be significant?

There is also an Inverter installed.

The previous set of budget batteries lasted less than a year, also indicating a bit more than the average battery loading?

 

 

Since we started on about the Powerframe batteries, we have had a lot of feedback, none of it bad until last week.

But the point you make is a valid one in that no one can predict the life of any batteries and that Banner are fitted in more vehicles than most, so the failure rate will be higher without it necessarily indicating a weakness.

However, both Roadpro and Bailey promoted the Banner wet batteries as Maintenance free, when history has shown them to be high maintenance.

Whether this was a deliberate attempt to 'over egg' the battery spec or misunderstanding, it is now coming back to haunt them. The high maintenance feature of the wet battery is being talked about on the German Forums. And not in good way.

 

In an age when almost all modern motorhome batteries are maintenance free to have one that very much isn't, is a big failing, IMO. Not just from the gassing perspective and the potential dangers, but the high fluid loss is going to be a major issue for many because of battery access.

When was the last time you had to check the fluid level in your car battery, or the Motorhome Starter battery? It seems to be taken for granted by most people that any battery will be maintenance free, whether Car, mobility Scooter or Golf buggy.

 

As a result, the dangers of topping up a battery has also been lost with some unaware of just how explosive the gas that vents from a battery during the topping up process is. Unlike a Car battery top up, a Motorhome battery gas vents into an enclosed space making it especially dangerous. Just 4% Hydrogen in Air is explosive.

Apparently Eye damage following accidents during topping up, is on the increase. There is a campaign in the States trying to raise awareness, see the bottom of our Battery technology page.

 

Sorry, but irrespective of any other glowing qualities that Banner Wet batteries might have (yet to hear about any, even in this thread) that one characteristic is a serious failing that consigns them to the bottom of the pile, IMO. As it should all high maintenance batteries.

 

I have to confess to having a bit of a 'downer' on Banner batteries following an advert in MMM, I think in July 2015?, from Roadpro stating that Banner batteries were the 'Best in the World'. No special technology, no fancy Patents, no supporting evidence, no independent tests, just Bul%@h(&.

I know they sell zillions so might be a 'bit' biased, but I couldn't understand how they got away with it.

 

Yes all right, point taken, I do say exactly the same about the Varta LFD/Bosch L5, but I have never sold batteries.

 

On the subject of the LFD as a Starter battery : If you look at the spec of an LFD 90 Starter/Leisure versus a dedicated Varta Starter H3 they are not that far apart. You will see that the LFD has a CCA of 1,000amps/830 which exceeds many dedicated Starter batteries and not far off the H3.

If you install an LFD 90 both under the bonnet and in the Habitation area, as per Pelmetman, then swap them at intervals, of say 3 years, you should be able to double the normal life of the habitation battery. A Starter battery gets a really easy life but a Habitation battery a hard life.

Swapping them over spreads that load. It's not inconceivable that a 7 year life might be achievable?

 

It also means that, if required you can call on the Habitation battery as an emergency Starter battery, and vice versa.

One other 'feature' is that if you suspect your habitation LFD is tiring, swap it with the Starter and you will soon find out how good it is.

 

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

aandncaravan - 2016-08-09 6:58 PM

 

If you install an LFD 90 both under the bonnet and in the Habitation area, as per Pelmetman, then swap them at intervals, of say 3 years, you should be able to double the normal life of the habitation battery. A Starter battery gets a really easy life but a Habitation battery a hard life.

Swapping them over spreads that load. It's not inconceivable that a 7 year life might be achievable?

 

It also means that, if required you can call on the Habitation battery as an emergency Starter battery, and vice versa.

One other 'feature' is that if you suspect your habitation LFD is tiring, swap it with the Starter and you will soon find out how good it is.

 

 

So its official......... I'm not just a pretty face :D .........

 

Although I'm struggling to find any Motor factors down here in Weymouth who supply Varta betteries :-S .....

 

Any recommendations for a online supplier? ;-) .........

 

 

[aandncaravan]

Battery mega store not just because they are low cost, £79, but because they have a higher turnover of the LFD battery so it will be fresh, not one that has been on the shelf for months.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

aandncaravan - 2016-08-09 8:33 PM

 

Battery mega store not just because they are low cost, £79, but because they have a higher turnover of the LFD battery so it will be fresh, not one that has been on the shelf for months.

 

 

Ta muchly.......... 2 x Varta Professional Dual Purpose LFD75 ordered .......137 quid B-) .......