Brownhills

[hbarnett]

I am having very serious problems with my brand new Lunar motorhome that I purchased from Brownhills at Newark back in April. It's been back to Brownhills and even Lunar but nothing has been rectified. Is anyone else out there in a similar situation?

[Mel B]

Hi hbarnett Sorry to hear of you prroblem, could you tell us what it actually is? It will help us determing what advice to give you.

[hbarnett]

Hi Mel B, Problems found on collection day. 1) Bathroom door, screw points showing on outer surface of panel, (as found on collection day). Lunar fitted a new door but have damaged the towel rail and split the door frame in the process. 2) Tables are not level, (as found on collection day). Done this myself 3) Paint damage on various exterior panels, (as found on collection day). 4) We have not received the two habitation keys through the post, as agreed. Received 09/05/06 5) Near side locker door does not fit correctly. Done this myself The following problems have been discovered since taking ownership of the vehicle: 1) The washroom floor is unstable and seems to bulge upwards, which creates a problem for water drainage. 2) The shower panelling has not been sealed correctly making the shower unusable. 3) Water drainage from both kitchen and washroom is very slow, particularly the washroom sink, it takes approximately ten minutes for the sink to empty after the plug is removed. 4) Up front in the vehicle cab, both doors do not close properly. A loud whistling sound can be heard around the top of the window frame area and it is very draughty. This has been rectified by Brownhills but the ddor seal on the drivers side does not fit correctly. 5) The rear facing front dinette seat cover has what we thought was a bad stain but on closer inspection I think it is a fault in the cloth, it looks like the colours have bled into one another. 6) Our friends slept on the rear double bed, we assembled the bed as shown during our demonstration on collection day and found to our horror the following morning that the folding leg hinge has almost cut through the flooring. 7) The habitation door lock has failed. this was rectified by brownhills. 8) Water is seeping out from the joint between the washroom wall and the floor. 9) Kitchen worktop coming away from wall, sealant has failed. Actually the wall is bulging outwards away from the kitchen units, creases in the outside panel can be clearly seen. 10) Engine is producing black smoke and staining the bodywork. No one at Brownhills would assure me that these would be put right and I have lost confidence that they ever will. Howard.

[howie]

Sorry to hear of all the problems with your new van Howard. With so many faults I think I would return it to Brownhills and either demand a refund or a new replacement. Even if all the faults are sorted, you will never have the same looks on it. Howard.

[hbarnett]

Hello Howard, I have sent e-mails, letters, had telephone conversations, even left call back requests for the Managing directors but they will not respond. I wonder how many more Brownhills customers are experiencing this behaviour. How can I do anything when they refuse to talk to me. The vehicle has been stood down coz we can't use it. Howard.

[Guest starspirit]

Howard, so sorry to hear of your plight , it must be awful to have spent all that hard earned cash and be saddled with a dog. I too would suggest rejection of the van. You could start with a registered letter to the chief exec of Brownhills clearly, and without rancour or threat, setting out the problems, the opportunities they have had to rectify them, and their lack of progress or cooperation. Your contract is with Brownhills so unless you are very lucky I doubt the manufacturer will be interested in helping, but again a registered letter to the chief exec setting out your side of the story won't do any harm and might just arouse some concern for their image. Maybe a reference to your cry for help on here might just stir up some reaction because if it costs them just one lost sale it will have been worth it - but don't hold your breath! The c.a.b. or trading standards might help, particularly with the precise wording of your rejection but help varies according to how clued up the person you speak to is so it might take a couple of tries. If the van is on credit the finance company might be interested as they would have a vested interest in it's value?

[mike.T]

Sorry to hear of all the problems with your new van Howard I think I would return it to Brownhills and either demand a refund or a new replacement! if no response is received from them within 28days I would make up some banners for in-side the windows stating problems and lack of action by Brownhills, contact the local paper and TV station tell then you are making a protest at a !! time , and ask then if they would be interested in covering it ! if so park your van across the main entrance and lock it up. I think you will get some action from Brownhills , but you may also get a telling off from the police but it would be worth it if there are more unhappy customers with problems from this dealer why not get to gather two or three vans are better than one !! Hope you get it sorted soon.

[enrico]

Sorry to hear of your plight and the obvious lack of interest shown by Brownhills.The following advise may help. If your m/h is on credit its no good going to Brownhills,go to the credit company,they are the owners of the m/h and put all your faults in writing and when and to whom you complained.Copies of all correspondence must be sent to them as well.Send all this either by fax or registered post,not normal or recorded post.Let them fight the case on your behalf.They will have a lot more clout than you will have. If you purchased outright then your contract is with Brownhills.As previously advised send a letter to the chief executive of the Brownhill Group stating why you are writing to him(because of the lack of response from Newark) and put in all your correspondence you have.If you complained within 3 weeks of collecting the vehicle about the faults, you have the right to reject the vehicle,if it was after that then you must demand they fix immediately otherwise you will go to your local Trading Standards office.Don`t at this stage go heavy handed but firmly. You must always put everything in writing,keeping a copy for yourself.Never just rely on a phone call,you can`t prove anything.Always send by fax but you must have confirmation the fax has been received or by registered post.NEVER choose the cheaper options of normal post or recorded delivery.These will not stand up in a court of law. I hope this helps and you succeed in what you want.All the best.

[hbarnett]

The only thing I haven't tried so far is Trading Standards, do I visit my local office or an office in the location of the dealer ie Newark?

[bognormike]

how long before this thread is pulled? (!)

[hbarnett]

What does that mean?

[Mel B]

hbarnett What bognormike means is that in the past there have been instances when some threads have mysteriously disappeared, whether because they were 'defamatory' or disappeared by accident. It has been suggested that when dealers are getting a roasting the powers that be that run the forum get scared and removed some of the more derogatory remarks, or even pull the thread completely. Whether this is the case or not I don't know, but that's not what this posting is about. However, I have noticed certainly for quite a while that threads have been left to run, depsite there being some comments which are less than flattering about certain dealers. Hopefully this means that so long as we keep our comments sensible and don't descend into over the top libelous allegations for the hell of it (which has certainly happened in the past) the moderator won't feel the need to pull the plug and you'll get some good advice. As for what to do, you really need to contact Trading Standard to get advice from them of what you need to do, your local office should be able to let you have this info, you can just ring them up, you don't need to visit in person. Just make sure you have your facts to hand so you can tell them clearly and concisely what's been happening (or not!) - they will help but they are not 'agony aunts' so keep to the point. Make sure you keep a note of what you are advised to do. If you do a search of the forum you should find others who have had problems with dealers and the very sensible advice that they were given. Try searching the forum (without the quotes) for "Dealer satisfaction", "dealership", "delamination" and you'll get some comments about problems others have had and suggestions on how to resolve them. From what you have told us about your problems, the motorhome does not appear to be 'fit for use', it cannot be used for it's intended purpose without causing you major problems. Do you belong to the Caravan Club or Camping and Caravanning Club? The CC certainly has a legal helpline for members and I suspect the CCC will too, it might be worth giving them a call. As for the suggestion about the finance company, they will only be interested if it is a motor vehicle type purchase plan policy which is specifically tied to the motorhome and basically it isn't your's until you've made the very last payment, if it is a normal home loan which can be used for an unspecified purpose then they won't want to know. Make sure you put a realistic deadline for your demands to be met, I would've said 2 weeks was more than sufficient (check with Trading Standards), if they don't come back to you by then you may have to get a bit stronger with them, such as a solicitor's letter, but hopefully it won't come to that. Unfortunately in my experience Brownhills are not renowned for doing anything quickly in aftersales! If you do get some contact it'll probably be the lovely Caroline (she IS a lovely person!), but make sure you are strong - she is there on behalf of the company, not as your friend.

[howie]

Evening Howard. The previous replies should help you with your next steps to resolving this problem. Before resorting to legal proceedings however, I suggest you go back to Brownhills in person and insist they fulfill their obligations re. the faults on your van. As Mel said, no need to be rude, but leave them in no doubt that you intend to see this matter through until you get a satisfactory outcome. Looking back at the faults you have listed, i,m amazed this van ever left the factory let alone Brownhills showroom. What happened to quality control. Has p.d.i been discarded in some money saving scheme, or is this another example of one that slipped through the net. All the best and let us know how you get on. Howard.

[euroanchor]

you might want to print this off and send a copy to the relevant sales manager. Fact Sheets Sale of Goods Act Fact Sheet URN No: 05/1730 Subject: Sale of Goods Act, Faulty Goods. Relevant or Related Legislation: Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002. Key Facts: • Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale). • Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description. • Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety. • It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract. • If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances) • For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement). • A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement. • If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit • In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years). • If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty) • After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity check this out as well, when my wife and myself got shafted by a time share company we found out that if you took out finance to pay for goods, then the finance company were equally responsible, i.e we took them to court along with the timeshare company. we ended up with a total refund of money we had paid, we also used the sale of goods act for this approach but check it with a solicitor befor you go down that route. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

[hbarnett]

I thank everyone for their kind words, advice and support. I conclude from this that I am at the stage where Trading Standards will be required and then perhaps a solicitor. Everthing else that has been recommended has hit a force field which seems to surround the relevant people at the dealership. Thanks again everyone. Howard.

[lunartraveller]

Howard,Keep at it.I refused to take a Swift from Brownhils at Cannock because the promised rectifications on this S/Hand van had not been carried out.They were not happy but found me a far better van at Newark for only a little more money. The couple of problems with this van were sorted after I had used it a couple of times BUT is was not easy.just keep going. Like all suppliers (of anything) they hope you will give up and go away.DONT GIVE UP. Lunartraveller

[hbarnett]

Oh! believe me, I will not give up, they have upset the wrong guy. It disturbs me to find so many threads relating to Brownhills on this site and that only one so far has had anything positive to say about them. Wish I could get into one of the MDs ribs! Howard

[Mel B]

You could probably see the MD in person if you go to the show in September at York, they usually have a Club Brownhills marquee and have some sort of do for those camping the Club Brownhills area - you do usually have to pay as the proceeds go partly to charity but it'll be worth it!!!

[hbarnett]

Mel B, that's a great idea, unfortunately I wont be able to go but I bet I can cause some red faces at the NEC providing that they attend mmmmmm! Starspirit, thanks to all the members comments and advice, I will have my day! Howard

[Mick H.]

WE went to Brownhills of Swindon looking for a secondhand Hymer in the£30,000 bracket and almost got shown the door.There isn't a Hymer available for less than £60-70,000we were told .Try Deepcar.

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]hbarnett - 2006-08-12 7:10 PM I am having very serious problems with my brand new Lunar motorhome that I purchased from Brownhills at Newark back in April. It's been back to Brownhills and even Lunar but nothing has been rectified. Is anyone else out there in a similar situation?[/QUOTE]

Try this web address to find out exactly what to do and what rights you have.  The link will take you to a host of valuable and authoritative information. http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/callist.cgi

On the same website, you will find a link to your own nearest Trading Standards offices, normally somewhere at your County or City authority offices. 

Once you've had a chance to read the Trading Standards advisory leaflets, check what you have/haven't done to date, rectify if necessary, and then phone for an appointment to go to see them. 

Take all your copy correspondence with you.  Although some of the defects are, in truth, relatively minor, others do sound bad enough to give you a case for rejection of the van as unfit.  However, I think you may need to prioritise a bit.  Do talk to Trading Standards and get their specialist advice before you go too far down that road, though.

In the meantime, do be a bit careful what you say on here, this is an open forum, and you don't want to give your favourite dealer any chance to counterclaim against you for defamation!

Best of luck, and I hope this helps

[hbarnett]

Thanks Brian, all I wanted was for them to put the faults right. I chose them because they boast about how they are one of the largest dealerships in Europe. When I read their mission statement it filled me full of confidence. I fell in love with the vehicle when I visited them to buy a storage box for my original mh. Maybe my emotions have run away with me. Howard.

[howie]

In the meantime, do be a bit careful what you say on here, this is an open forum, and you don't want to give your favourite dealer any chance to counterclaim against you for defamation!

Best of luck, and I hope this helps

[/QUOTE] I too was wondering how Brownhills would react to all this bad press. The flipside to claims of defamation might be that they pull their fingers out and do the decent thing as far as H.Bs van is concerned. It takes a long time to gain a good reputation, and that reputation has taken a fair old beating on this thread alone. Howard. ( thanks for your help on quotes Brian. Easypips for most but a nightmare for me.)

[Administrator]

In the interests of fairness and balance, we have agreed to give right of reply to Brownhills on this thread. Brownhills' sales director Andy Craggs issued the following statement: 'The customer has been contacted by Lunar after intervention from Brownhills who wish to give the customer total satisfaction. Brownhills will keep the forum informed of the outcome. 'We have spoken to Lunar and Caroline Bourne, our Customer Care Manager, has spoken to the customer.' Statement ends This thread will now be locked and, after a further 24 hours on the forum, it will be deleted and the matter considered closed until further notice. Moderator