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Camping-Car Park price increase


Derek Uzzell

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I’ve received an email from Camping-Car Park warning that the 10% VAT charge that has been applied since 2011 to the cost of using their ‘aires’ will increase to 20% from 1 January 2020. The result will be an average 10% increase in the price for parking/services.

 

More details here

 

https://tinyurl.com/t3uqqn5

 

and Mr Google says

 

Dear motorhomes,

 

You have trusted us since 2011 by staying in the areas of the CAMPING-CAR PARK network and we thank you! It is in all transparency that we announce to you today, that after many years without increasing our tariffs, we are required by the authorities to proceed with the increase in the rate of VAT.

 

Indeed, the tax authorities question the reduced VAT rate of 10% that we apply to areas for motorhomes. Without legal definition for the motorhome area, the French administration interprets it in two ways:

In terms of tourist tax, the area for motorhomes is included in the category of 3, 4 and 5 star campsites,

In terms of VAT, the motorhome area would not be in any category and therefore subject to the maximum rate of VAT.

 

It is, in other words, a penalty for you and us!

 

The partner town halls of CAMPING-CAR PARK and ourselves will obviously defend your point of view in order to obtain continued access to the reduced rate. However, pending a more favorable decision, we are forced to apply this rate of 20% from January 1, 2020. Thus, the average price of parking and services has increased by 10%.

 

Rest assured of our full commitment to promote tax fairness between all French tourist accommodation modes, we will keep you informed of developments.

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Luckily in France you have a wide choice of stopover options and the Camping-Car Park sites are just one of many.

We've used a few of their sites and, we think, are reasonably priced for what they are but with so many cheaper and free Aires there's always another option if we consider the price is too high.

At least they have the decency to give everyone a warning of the increase - thank you for posting.

 

:-D

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The founders of Camping Car Parks are actively campaigning against free aires being created and maintained by communes arguing that they are in direct competition with paid for aires that generate a tourist tax. Of course it also generates profit for them, but they gloss over that aspect.

 

They claim that this was welcomed by the camping-caristes when they conducted a market survey. This survey consisted on asking 500 selected camping-car owners a selection of questions. That is 500 out of an estimated 300,000 camping-car owners in France.

 

They plan / hope to introduce thousands of newly created aires carrying their brand. How? Their quote: “Elected officials have nothing to manage. They just have to create the area, and we sell them the creation kit. " . Note the word sell. And that they have to create the aire first.

 

CCP benefit from government grants to 'improve' aires before they take them over. An aire near to where I live had over €100,000 of local government money granted to improve the ground the aire was based on. The money was granted to the local commune in order to boost tourism. The maire then took out a contract with CCP who fenced off the newly laid tarmac and installed a pay barrier. Before the 'improvements' 20 to 30 camping-cars parked there every night, the restaurant outside benefited as did the local tabac come grocery shop. After the 'improvements' they were lucky to have 5 paying customers on the 'improved' aire and all the other camping-cars can be found boosting the tourism and businesses at nearby Bussiere-Poitevin or Lussac-les-Chateaux where they can park for nothing with the same or better amenities.

 

To park overnight at a CCP aire costs around €12 out of season. Plus electricity, water and sewage disposal if required. Outside the defined aire cars, vans and lorries are able to park without charge. Why can't you simply park your camping-car where the lorries park? Because as part of the contract with the maire is an agreement that parking restrictions will be implemented. These parking restrictions are not lawful and are being subject to challenge on a regular basis by the society that acts for Camping-Cars, Caravans and Tent users. But at the moment French law is such that if the illegal notices are displayed you are liable to a fine or being moved on if you contravene them, but you can successfully challenge the fine in a higher court.

 

In my local CCP aire the maire has bowed to public pressure and removed the prohibitions. Now the commune might face a legal challenge from CCP for breach of contract. But of course that isn't mentioned in the CCP sales blurb that is sent to every mairie where a free aire is located.

 

If you are just looking for an overnight stop and are happy with side by side parking near to a road with little or no amenities then consider parking in a supermarket, halte-nautique, base kayak-canoe or picnic area. It won't cost you anything and therefore you will not be supporting an organisation that many French camping-caristes believe to be the biggest threat to their enjoyment.

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It's important to remember that Camping-Car Parks are more like the Spanish Camperparks than traditional basic French Aires. Marked out spaces, no restrictions on outdoor gear, EHU, usually Wifi, as well as the normal filling and emptying facilities.

 

On that basis, I reckon they're pretty good value. For me, they serve as a cheaper alternative to booking into a campsite every few days to deal with the "domestics."

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TheFrenchConnection - 2020-01-21 10:24 PM

 

When Campingcarpark took over our local Aire it changed from a semi-derelict wasteland in to a very pleasant and well supported Aire.

 

I've used several and will continue to do so - predictable quality at a sensible price. Each to his own.

 

If you dig deeper you might find that the cost of renovation came from a local government grant to the commune and / or a loan from CCP to the commune that has to be paid back out of their small share of the turnover. That is how CCP work. You will see in my previous post that they expect the commune to prepare the aire and then they just offer a management service. There would have been nothing to stop the commune obtaining thegovernment grant and running the site themselves.

 

I have no problem with a company making money from camping cars as long as it is fair. In many cases CCP are taking over what were free or cheap aires, reducing or removing the existing facilities and insisting that the commune erect the illegal 'No Camping-Car' signs all around the pay aire. They are effectively reducing the choice of campers, not increasing it.

 

That is why you don't see adverts for CCP and similar organisations in the French camping magazines. They are seen as a threat to the future of camping.

 

Thankfully many more large supermarkets are installing service points where you can empty your grey and toilet waste without paying, and fill up with water for €2. They don't mind you parking overnight either.

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Tony Jones - 2020-01-22 4:55 PM

 

It's important to remember that Camping-Car Parks are more like the Spanish Camperparks than traditional basic French Aires. Marked out spaces, no restrictions on outdoor gear, EHU, usually Wifi, as well as the normal filling and emptying facilities.

 

On that basis, I reckon they're pretty good value. For me, they serve as a cheaper alternative to booking into a campsite every few days to deal with the "domestics."

 

If only there was something similar in the UK.. :'(

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So the commune is only making a small profit, instead of paying the whole cost of providing and maintaining the Aire? I think most of us residents paying our Taxe d'Habitation would think that à pretty good arrangement.

I really don't see why as Camping Caristes we should expect free facilities to be provided for us. In my sailing days we either paid Harbour Dues or Marina fees or anchored off and roughed it, and I feel the same today. The days of freeloading are long gone and if anyone wants to spend the night in a Lidles car park on the bypass then good luck to them - you'll find me at the lakeside Aire using the WiF and the EHU for a tenner a night.

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As I previously said; If you looked into this rather than jumping to conclusions you would find that the aire was created with money from local government in the form of a grant to improve tourism and possibly a loan from CCP which has to be repaid. CCP will have only paid for the pay barrier. Your commune and local government will have paid the rest.

 

If your commune had applied for the grant to improve the aire and then ran it themselves like many other communes seem to be able to do; they would receive all the revenue, not a fraction of it. So, instead of receiving a third of the €12 CCP charge they would get 100% of, say €5 to €8, and because the price was lower, there would be a lot more camping-cars staying.

 

Just remember that out of the 33% of any revenue received by CCP the commune still has to maintain the aire and any facilities associated with it. Your commune also will be responsible for any charges for waste disposal including grey and toilet waste. So, other than maintain the pay barrier, what do CCP do for their lion's share of the money? That is the question that Maires seem unable to ask before they sign up to the contract.

 

Thankfully there are still many examples of aires run by the commune that offer better services for less money and still generate more revenue for the commune than any CCP aire will do. And, for the local businesses the more camping-cars that stay can mean more business for them.

 

It is ignorance of how CCP operate that enables them to convince Maires to sign up to their scheme.

 

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A January 2020 listing of Camping-Car Park (CCP) sites is here

 

https://campingcarpark.com/docs/Camping-Car%20Park%20-%20les%20aires.pdf?x52848

 

and there’s a map showing where they are and what the type of site is. As far as I’m aware, all the sites shown as "Aire fermée” have recently been added to the CCP network but are not yet usable as installation work is incomplete.

 

https://campingcarpark.com/en/map/

 

Although some CCP sites were previously ‘aires’ where motorhomes could stay free of charge and (sometimes) also have free services, many are redundant municipal campsites that have been out of use for years, and some CCP sites are brand-new.

 

It could be argued that transforming previously-free ‘aires’ into CCP sites disadvantages French camping-caristes; on the other hand, being able to stay on previously-unavailable campsites or on brand-new CCP sites should be beneficial. It’s unlikely that non-French motorcaravanners will be overly concerned about how Camping-Car Parks operates its business and/or the local politics of French communes - they will be much keener in being able to overnight on authorised ‘serviced’ sites for a smallish fee and all-year-round.

 

The Camping-Car Park business model would not work in the UK - there are no redundant municipally-owned campsites nor ‘aires’ and speculative house-building drives land usage. Shortage of domestic housing (and high property prices) is of huge interest to UK residents, but I doubt the French care about UK housing issues anymore than I care about how Camping-Cat Park makes its profits.

 

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To be honest, the politics don't bother me. I'm more than happy paying for a secure, all inclusive rate (water, waste, hookup and wifi) for a stopover, without the palaver of checking in etc. But we only use CCP if we intend spending a few daylight hours looking around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The thing is Derek that the French are not exactly enamoured with CCP. If you have time look at the reviews on CCP aires that have been recently 'improved' and added to their portfolio. There are a lot of negative comments about how CCP operate on French camping forums.

 

One of the biggest criticisms is on pricing and the insistence on having restrictions on camping-cars parking near to the aires. For instance the one nearest where I live; if I go there in my car or van I can park free and visit the restaurant across the road. But if I turn up in my camping-car I am forced to use the aire and pay €5 for the privilege. Bizarrely, just up the road is a newly constructed tarmac parking lot designated for lorries only. They can park there all night without charge and the driver sleeps in his cab. He can use the picnic tables, toilets and litter bins without charge. This discrimination is the root of the dissatisfaction from many French campers points of view.

 

Before this site was 'improved' and turned over to CCP there would be 20 to 30 camping-cars parked each night and at least a dozen during lunch time periods summer and winter. I looked on their website last night and there were 51 free places out of 53 plots. Nobody stays because there are free or cheaper sites that offer the same or more than CCP just down the road in each direction. It isn't and never will be a destination. It is an overnight stop over on the north-south route. So very few will pay €12 plus electricity and sewage disposal for side by side parking on tarmac when they can travel another 10 km or so and get the same for nothing or a few Euros.

 

Most of the money used to 'improve' the sit came from the tourist department to boost tourism. If the Maire had used his nous he could have got the money to finish off the improvements from the tourism department as a loan instead of CCP and continued to run the aire themselves at a reasonable fee. They are already responsible for collection of litter, cleaning the toilets, grass cutting and water & sewage rates so why not collect the money directly as other communes do?

 

I also don't understand the last post. What defines 'Secure'? All the CCP sites that I have seen have nothing to stop anyone nicking your bike. The only 'security' is a pay barrier so nobody can drive on without paying, but that isn't what I would term 'Secure'. I cannot remember ever staying on an aire that I would call 'Secure'.

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Les W - 2020-01-23 12:36 PM

 

Tony Jones - 2020-01-22 4:55 PM

 

It's important to remember that Camping-Car Parks are more like the Spanish Camperparks than traditional basic French Aires. Marked out spaces, no restrictions on outdoor gear, EHU, usually Wifi, as well as the normal filling and emptying facilities.

 

On that basis, I reckon they're pretty good value. For me, they serve as a cheaper alternative to booking into a campsite every few days to deal with the "domestics."

 

If only there was something similar in the UK.. :'(

I doubt thats ever going to happen here Les!

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Nicepix - 2020-01-24 3:46 PM

 

The thing is Derek that the French are not exactly enamoured with CCP. If you have time look at the reviews on CCP aires that have been recently 'improved' and added to their portfolio. There are a lot of negative comments about how CCP operate on French camping forums...

 

 

We’ve been travelling regularly in France since the early 1980s and, since we bought our first motorhome in 1999, all of our motorcaravanning has been in France. I occasionally buy “Camping-Car Magazine” and “Le Monde du Camping-Car” and (when I’ve taken a few tranquillizers) may venture on to French motorhome forums.

 

I’m well aware that many French camping-caristes dislike Camping-Car Park, in the same way that they disliked France Passion when, years ago, that network was getting off the ground. I can understand the reasoning, but if French camping-caristes really believe that they are being discriminated against, or corruption is involved in the CCP scheme, or tourism money is being misspent, or their elected local politicians are clueless, it’s up to them to do something about this not just moan on internet forums or in letters to magazines.

 

Although I’ve seen some ‘foreigners’ on the CCP sites I’ve stayed at, plenty of French motorhomes have been there too. If nobody uses the CCP site near to you (presumably at Moulismes) because French motorcaravanners can obtain parking, 230V electricity, fresh-water, waste emptying and Wi-Fi at no cost a few kilometers away, rather than pay €11.11 for using the CCP site, good luck to them.

 

Free ‘aires’ crammed with wall-to-wall motorhomes have never been our idea of fun, so If paying a not unreasonable (IMHO) charge to use a CCP site and knowing that the charge may dissuade other people from being there that’s a plus in our book.

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I have to agree with Derek here, in that the times we have used the CCP sites, the majority of users were indeed French, and the price paid versus the facilities available made it worth the money. That said, we always want to park up legally, and will use whatever, or wherever is convenient when we are ready to stop.
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Well Derek, there are 52 places spare out of 53. So you can have all the peace and tranquillity you want. I have never seen less than 40 places available since it opened.

 

Previously there would be at least 20 to 30 camping-cars there every night summer and winter. Predominantly people travelling from the north of the country or Holland, Germany, Belgium and further afield going to Spain and back. The restaurant owner has laid staff off. Meanwhile down the road at Bussiere-Poitevin and Lussac les Chateaux there are camping cars galore and the local boulangeries now send their vans to the sites every morning. Meanwhile the commune handyman at Moulismes is busy collecting tumbleweed.

 

But to answer your point; representations have been made to Prefectures asking them to explain how and why they are funding the development of a private company. The response was that in future measures would be taken before finalising any grants or loans to ensure that they were not being used in this way. Also, as I said before; the association that looks after the interests of campers in general has actively lobbied the Department of Transport, Roads, etc to look at bringing in legislation to prevent the erection of discriminatory signs that are not included in the Code de Route.

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I’ve always felt that French camping-caristes are masters of doublethink.

 

While being delighted with the idea that campig-cars are somhow ‘special’ (hence the Code 79 footnote that can be added to some French “B” driving-licences allowing the licence-holder to drive unlimited weight motorhomes), they then quibble over the legality of signage or height barriers seeking to deter motorhomes from clogging up French car parks and squatting in swarms at French beauty spots for weeks on end as used to be commonplace, claiming that this is ‘discrimination’.

 

It will be apparent from this and earlier discussions that a number of O&A forum-members are currently using Camping-Car Park sites and generally like the scheme. As far as I’m aware the only negative comments here were seven years ago, when the CCP organisation was smaller and their barrier system less user-friendly.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Camping-Car-Parks-/33573/

 

There are plenty of websites identifying places in France where day/night parking of motorhomes is believed to be ‘tolerated’, but many visitors to France may (like flyboyprowler) prefer ‘approval’ to ‘toleration’.

 

For 20 years I’ve been capable of deciding whether to stay in our motorhome at a French ‘aire’, or at a French campsite, or at a French car park, or at a France Passion site, etc. etc. and I’m now able to decide whether or not to stay at a particular CCP site. So, while you are perfectly entitled to respond to my original posting on this thread (In fact, I would have bet good money that you would do this ;-) ) as long as the CCP scheme continues to operate I’ll make use of it, and if it expands that should benefit me.

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I think the class B argument is a trifle pedantic. It benefits very, very few as not that many camping-cars exceed the normal B weight limit. As a side issue it would be interesting to see how motorhomes are able to overcome the 3,5t weight restrictions and be hybrid, but that is for another thread.

 

Regards choice; CCP type sites will only benefit those who are happy to pay for basic parking and services for roughly the same price as you can stay on a communal camp site. A lot of camping-caristes stay in aires on route to other destinations. They may baulk at adding €12 per night to their travelling costs when all they want is a quiet place to be able to sleep. Lorry and delivery van drivers are not subject to the same restrictions that camping-cars are yet they are basically doing the same thing. Pulling over for a good nights rest. Similarly the €5 charge just to park for an hour or so to have lunch discriminates against camping-caristes when other motorists are allowed to park for nothing.

 

All that is necessary to level the playing field is for the unauthorised 'no camping-car' notices to be made officially illegal. And then everyone has a choice as to where they want to stay within reason and legalities. And that to me is a good thing.

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An around €6 charge gets 5 hours of ‘stay’ that (normally) includes fresh-water, waste emptying, 230V electricity and wifi.

 

An overall per-24-hours cost of (say) €12 is a fixed price and, although it will be possible to stay on a campsite for that price (or less) the chances of doing this in the tourist high season are small and very few French campsites are open in the winter months.

 

UK motorcaravanners going long distance (to Spain say) may be unlikely to bother with CCP sites - I’d just use aires or car parks if I were doing that - but so what? CCP sites just offer me alternative places to stop and that to me is a good thing.

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WE have hardly used the Aires in the last couple of years as each one seems to be under different management/ownership and need different cards!

How many different cards/payment types are needed. or do they take a standard credit/debit card?

I have still got the Aires Guides from a couple of years ago but its weight and size make it difficult to fit into a small motorhome

Does the latest Aires Guide show which group/ownership the site is in?

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