Carbon Monoxide monitor positioning - confused

[terryW]

I have a quite expensive Carbon Monoxide (CO) alarm sitting in the kitchen drawer while I work out where to position it. In the October MMM Peter Brown states that CO is heavier than air and throughout his letter gives the impression that CO will settle on the floor. Other sources would suggest that the CO may be contained in warm air and as such will rise. I am considering fitting mine at half height which will be about 60cm above our feet when we sleep as upholstery and windows will not allow us to fit closer to our heads.

 

Anyway regardless of what I’m doing I thought the two quotes below may be of interest to other forum readers.

 

 

“Unlike smoke, which rises to the ceiling, CO mixes with air. Recognizing this, a CO detector should be located at knee-height (which is about the same as prone sleeping height). Due to the possibility of tampering or damage by pets, children, vacuum cleaners and the like, it may be located up to chest height”.

 

Canadian, Fire Marshal's Public Fire Safety Council

 

 

“When considering where to place a carbon monoxide detector, keep in mind that although carbon monoxide is roughly the same weight as air (carbon monoxide's specific gravity is 0.9657, as stated by the EPA; the National Resource Council lists the specific gravity of air as one), it may be contained in warm air coming from combustion appliances such as home heating equipment. If this is the case, carbon monoxide will rise with the warmer air”.

Homesafe.Com

 

[Wooie]

The instructions that came with my CO Monitor said it was best to position it

approximately half way between the floor and the ceiling.

 

That then gives you the best of both scenarios.

 

Seemed to make sense to me so that`s what i did but..............................

 

I`m sure someone will be along shortly to say different.

 

Regards

 

Graham.

[Matrix Meanderer]

Have a similar unit, combined with a smoke alarm, which we eventually positioned by the habitation door but not at ceiling level.

 

One bit of advice - make sure you can release it from its mounting and throw it quickly into a cupboard or under a pillow when it chirps up loudly as you are cooking (especially bacon)

 

(lol)

[colin]

Here you go.

http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.org.uk/19/carbon-monoxide-detector-placement

 

Higher rather than lower, will definatly not settle on floor, that LPG.

[747]

Carbon Monoxide has virtually the same density as air. In still conditions it might disperse evenly but it can slowly rise or fall. There is information on the Web about this. I was taught about various gases when I worked in the Mining industry many years ago but googled it to reassure myself.

 

The consensus seems to be to place it at approximately head height when you are in bed as this is the danger time (ie, heating on overnight in cold weather).

 

A smoke alarm should be placed on the ceiling or close to it and away from heat sources.

 

Do a bit of research for professional advice if you are not sure.

[silverback]

agree with all above, according to the leaflet with mine it is the same density as air, so we stuck at head height where we sleep, its also a gas alarm narcotic and lpg and as lpg is heavier than air we sumised that c02 is more dangerous so thats why its near our heads when sleeping, also weve noticed that if you are standing near it and you are spraying hairspray or for me the lynx effect :-D it goes off, must be the cfc's in the can 8-)

jonathan

[WildBill]

Follow the manufacturers installation advice, if in doubt ring the manufacturer and express your concerns. B-)

[terryW]

WildBill - 2012-11-22 8:48 PM

 

Follow the manufacturers installation advice, if in doubt ring the manufacturer and express your concerns. B-)

 

Manufactures multipage instructions give no clue to positioning and I doubt if they even know what the inside of a motorhome looks like. :-(

[RogerC]

colin - 2012-11-22 7:53 PMHere you go.http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.org.uk/19/carbon-monoxide-detector-placementHigher rather than lower, will definatly not settle on floor, that LPG.

 

Here's an extract from that link...

 

A detector should not be placed within fifteen feet of heating or cooking appliances.

 

Sort of difficult in a MH don'tcha think?

 

[WildBill]

terryW - 2012-11-22 8:58 PM

 

WildBill - 2012-11-22 8:48 PM

 

Follow the manufacturers installation advice, if in doubt ring the manufacturer and express your concerns. B-)

 

Manufactures multipage instructions give no clue to positioning and I doubt if they even know what the inside of a motorhome looks like. :-(

 

Ring them anyway or get one that has some installation instructions with it that you can understand.

 

I install them all the time but always check the installation advice as each make differs and the manufacturers sometimes change their recommendations.

[colin]

RogerC - 2012-11-22 9:05 PM

colin - 2012-11-22 7:53 PMHere you go.http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.org.uk/19/carbon-monoxide-detector-placementHigher rather than lower, will definatly not settle on floor, that LPG.

 

Here's an extract from that link...

 

A detector should not be placed within fifteen feet of heating or cooking appliances.

 

Sort of difficult in a MH don'tcha think?

I've been using co (and smoke) detectors in my previous T25 and now my Globecar 636 with no issues whatsoever, just needs a bit of sensible positioning.

[colin]

terryW - 2012-11-22 8:58 PM

 

WildBill - 2012-11-22 8:48 PM

 

Follow the manufacturers installation advice, if in doubt ring the manufacturer and express your concerns. B-)

 

Manufactures multipage instructions give no clue to positioning and I doubt if they even know what the inside of a motorhome looks like. :-(

 

Just had a look online a photo's of inside of an E460, slightly awkward, but I'd mount it on the rearward facing 'wall' just behind washroom(/cupboard?) say a foot below upper lockers, although this may be a bit close to the heater, alternative would be on any of the walls in sleeping area, note they have a little light that flashes every couple of minutes so don't have it right in your face esp in sleeping pos.

p.s.Ideally if pos get it between yourself and any possible source of CO

p.p.s Oh and don't tuck it somewhere where air doesn't circulate easily, i.e. don't put it tight in a corner

[silverback]

silverback - 2012-11-22 8:23 PM

 

agree with all above, according to the leaflet with mine it is the same density as air, so we stuck at head height where we sleep, its also a gas alarm narcotic and lpg and as lpg is heavier than air we sumised that c02 is more dangerous so thats why its near our heads when sleeping, also weve noticed that if you are standing near it and you are spraying hairspray or for me the lynx effect :-D it goes off, must be the cfc's in the can 8-)

jonathan

 

just a point ...this is my opinion and its where i have placed mine, read your manufactures leaflet

i dont want sueing like the ***** thread!!

jon

[terryW]

colin - 2012-11-22 9:54 PM

 

Just had a look online a photo's of inside of an E460, slightly awkward, but I'd mount it on the rearward facing 'wall' just behind washroom(/cupboard?) say a foot below upper lockers, although this may be a bit close to the heater, alternative would be on any of the walls in sleeping area, note they have a little light that flashes every couple of minutes so don't have it right in your face esp in sleeping pos.

p.s.Ideally if pos get it between yourself and any possible source of CO

p.p.s Oh and don't tuck it somewhere where air doesn't circulate easily, i.e. don't put it tight in a corner

 

That was my thoughts Colin though I will probably place it just below the level of the locker as it is likely to foul the door when opened. The heat source is just round the corner from their but it should be OK, if not then I have a real problem as it should be gas tight. I hadn't thought about the flashing light, in that position it will be in our eyes but I'm sure I can find a solution to that if it become a problems. All part of the preparation for post New Year in Spain.

[coach2000]

I hung mine under the overhead cupboards over the fixed bed at the rear. In a real life situation it did work and give an alarm when my flue needed cleaning on my Fridge-freezerr. I could not use it on gas without the alarm going off due to a build up of soot. I kid you not, a pile 2 inches high came out when I had it serviced, having owned the van for 2 years and possibly only done about 12 trips, it must not have been serviced for a long time.

Anyway but for the alarm going off it could have been nasty as I was already feeling the effects of carbon monoxide poisoning and had to open all the roof vents and door to get fresh air in.

Now it is the 1st thing that the batteries get renewed. Hope this helps.

 

Clive.

[terryW]

Thanks Clive, think I will have a look at that position this morning. We have lockers overhead so that should be possible and it won't be any higher than the position I was considering.

[t5topcat]

I have a combi on the ceiling above the rear bed in the mh and a portable one that goes next to the bed we happen to be sleeping in( house /hotel/mh or whatever) all angles covered.

[terryW]

t5topcat - 2012-11-23 12:42 PM

 

I have a combi on the ceiling above the rear bed in the mh and a portable one that goes next to the bed we happen to be sleeping in( house /hotel/mh or whatever) all angles covered.

 

Portable also sounds a good idea, I can place it but not secure it near our heads when we sleep. All I have to do is remember to put it beside the bedside clock each night

[Paul-]

747 - 2012-11-22 7:54 PM

 

Carbon Monoxide has virtually the same density as air. In still conditions it might disperse evenly but it can slowly rise or fall. There is information on the Web about this. I was taught about various gases when I worked in the Mining industry many years ago but googled it to reassure myself.

 

The consensus seems to be to place it at approximately head height when you are in bed as this is the danger time (ie, heating on overnight in cold weather).

 

A smoke alarm should be placed on the ceiling or close to it and away from heat sources.

 

Do a bit of research for professional advice if you are not sure.

 

Good post

can I reinforce what you've already said about head hight when sleeping

 

CO will rise with heat but, its when you are asleep that it matters

[WildBill]

Most of the CO alarms that I install require them to be positioned on a wall above the height of a door but not over a door and away from any appliance. CO rises and fills the room from the ceiling down, if the CO alarm is below the height of a door, there is a chance that the CO alarm may not pick it up as the CO could escape out of the door and a faulty appliance may go un-noticed for some time. This is for CO alarms installed in permanent dwellings. For CO alarms installed in motorhomes and caravans, I would definately look to the manufacturer for advice. It may be that certain CO alarms are not suitable for installation in motorhomes and caravans.

[747]

An informative post about siting a CO alarm in a dwelling and very useful as there seems to be little general knowledge on this.

 

I may be wrong but is this to do with having radiators which cause convection, making the air in the room circulate towards the ceiling?

 

With different layouts and types of heating in motorhomes, it must be a real headache to site one suitably.

[Archiesgrandad]

It might help to try and work out where this carbon monoxide might come from, and that knowledge might indicate the best location for a sensor.

Assuming a reasonably well maintained van, we can assume it won't be the fridge with it's chimney venting to the outside, it won't be the water heater which has a chimney venting to the outside, it won't be the heating system which also has a chimney venting to the outside. That leaves us with the cooker which should not produce much carbon monoxide if it is properly maintained, any cheap candles, and incense burners.

So that's it then, try to find something that might produce carbon monoxide and use the sensor to protect you from that. Alternatively, do not believe everything you read on advertising material, the vendors do not concern themselves with whether you need one, only whether they can sell you one.

AGD

[terryW]

Archiesgrandad - 2012-11-24 4:07 PM

 

It might help to try and work out where this carbon monoxide might come from, and that knowledge might indicate the best location for a sensor.

Assuming a reasonably well maintained van, we can assume it won't be the fridge with it's chimney venting to the outside, it won't be the water heater which has a chimney venting to the outside, it won't be the heating system which also has a chimney venting to the outside. That leaves us with the cooker which should not produce much carbon monoxide if it is properly maintained, any cheap candles, and incense burners.

So that's it then, try to find something that might produce carbon monoxide and use the sensor to protect you from that. Alternatively, do not believe everything you read on advertising material, the vendors do not concern themselves with whether you need one, only whether they can sell you one.

AGD

 

In our case with we have an internal heater vented through the roof and after servicing it needs to be resealed to prevent fumes from escaping into the habitation area. I see this as our greatest risk and would wish to protect us should this occur. I have also come across a fridge vent that had become detached and a fridge that was not fulled sealed as I discovered when I had cause to remove the outside vents.

[colin]

Archiesgrandad - 2012-11-24 4:07 PM

 

It might help to try and work out where this carbon monoxide might come from, and that knowledge might indicate the best location for a sensor.

Assuming a reasonably well maintained van, we can assume it won't be the fridge with it's chimney venting to the outside, it won't be the water heater which has a chimney venting to the outside, it won't be the heating system which also has a chimney venting to the outside. That leaves us with the cooker which should not produce much carbon monoxide if it is properly maintained, any cheap candles, and incense burners.

So that's it then, try to find something that might produce carbon monoxide and use the sensor to protect you from that. Alternatively, do not believe everything you read on advertising material, the vendors do not concern themselves with whether you need one, only whether they can sell you one.

AGD

 

If everything was working correctly then a CO alarm would not be needed, I can attest to the fact that problems can occur and so can the widow of my dead friend. I was alerted to a problem with a solid fuel stove in my house by a CO alarm, my friend died due to a faulty gas appliance in a van sadly he didn't have the safeguard of an alarm.

[WildBill]

Archiesgrandad - 2012-11-24 4:07 PM

 

It might help to try and work out where this carbon monoxide might come from, and that knowledge might indicate the best location for a sensor.

Assuming a reasonably well maintained van, we can assume it won't be the fridge with it's chimney venting to the outside, it won't be the water heater which has a chimney venting to the outside, it won't be the heating system which also has a chimney venting to the outside. That leaves us with the cooker which should not produce much carbon monoxide if it is properly maintained, any cheap candles, and incense burners.

So that's it then, try to find something that might produce carbon monoxide and use the sensor to protect you from that. Alternatively, do not believe everything you read on advertising material, the vendors do not concern themselves with whether you need one, only whether they can sell you one.

AGD

 

You can not assume that the fridge, the water heater, or the heating system are all not producing CO into the motorhome. Who says that the seals which keep those appliances fumes from entering your motorhome are intact. How many times do we hear someone on here saying that when the wind blows a certain way there is a draft from around the fridge etc. Who is to say that due to lack of maintenance, the flue of the boiler has rusted through and no one has noticed? It is true that there is less risk of CO being emited from a well maintained room sealed appliance but there is still a risk.

However, the biggest producer of CO is the grill on the cooker if the door is closed with the grill on. This is why most oven grills have a warning not to close the door of the grill when it is in use. Some may be designed to be operated this way but if the manufacturer says dont close the door to the grill when in operation, dont do it.