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Carthago 148H


Bogfoldcruiser

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Good morning people .

First foray into this Motorhome malarky so we're trading in Big Bertha the Bessacarr 625 and looking to get after much research and forum lurking a Carthago 148H . Are there any major problems /niggles with these from what I've it seems they appear to be OK .

Eddie

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There are some 2018 comments here

 

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/few-niggles-questions-with-our-new-c-tourer-148h.173062/

 

but, for generlised ‘model specific’ feedback, you could consider joining the Carthago Owners UK club

 

http://www.carthagoowners.com/index.htm

 

As will be apparent from the attached photo this model has a significantly long rear overhang and a massive rear garage, so there’s plenty of potential to put a lot of weight on the rear axle.

891505506_T148H.jpg.c946bc2bebacbc7668c07c7152261e36.jpg

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Derek Uzzell - 2019-07-19 2:24 PM

 

There are some 2018 comments here

 

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/few-niggles-questions-with-our-new-c-tourer-148h.173062/

 

but, for generlised ‘model specific’ feedback, you could consider joining the Carthago Owners UK club

 

http://www.carthagoowners.com/index.htm

 

As will be apparent from the attached photo this model has a significantly long rear overhang and a massive rear garage, so there’s plenty of potential to put a lot of weight on the rear axle.

 

 

Thanks Derek .

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There’s a short review of a 2017 148H model here

 

https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/reviews/motorhomes/details/motorhome-review-carthago-c-tourer-t-148-h/940261

 

It’s worth noting in the review the comment

 

As with all C-tourer low-profiles, the 148 H is available on a 3.5-tonne chassis, but you can also upgrade to 3,650kg or a Heavy chassis and 4,250kg. The latter will give you well over a tonne of payload (before options), so you can make full use of the motorbike-sized garage and its own 250kg allowance.

 

Carthago’s basic specification includes a good deal of equipment, the construction is hardly featherweight and the 148H is definitely not a tiddler dimensionally. Consequently, you’d be unwise to choose a 148H built on a 3500kg or 3650kg chassis.

 

This long forum discussion

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Chelston-Motorhomes/51632/

 

related to the purchase of a Fiat Ducato-based Carthago built on a 4800kg chassis. OK, the model was somewhat larger and ‘plusher’ than a 148H but, despite the 4.8tonne chassis, there were still major weight-related issues.

 

With a caravanning-only background you may be blissfully innocent of how motorhome manufacturers specify available ‘payload’ (eg. often with just an egg-cup-full of fresh-water onboard) and how easy it can be for a motorhome’s overall and/or axle weights to be exceeded.

 

A long rear overhang also has loading implications. This forum thread relates to ‘grounding’ problems with a 2017 Pilote motorhome built on a 4400kg Ducato AL-KO chassis

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Air-suspension/47157/

 

There are plenty of other manufacturers’ motorhomes that have a rear overhang just as long as the 148H’s - it’s just something to bear in mind.

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Thanks again for the sound advice Derek , the old Bessy 625 has a mahoosive overhang also and I understand your comments on overloading axles , having driven vans , tippers , etc since passing my test in 1977 I've probably overloaded axles more times than I should have . We won't have a load of heavy bikes , scooters etc in the garage basically what we have in the caravan at the moment , although human nature will dictate that the very fact you have space means you inevitably end up using it but I have access to a weigh bridge at our local quarry that I get the use of free which is handy .

We purchased a 64 plate 148H yesterday having got a remarkably good trade in on our old Bessy , basically what we paid for it a year ago .

Eddie .

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Bogfoldcruiser - 2019-07-20 8:43 AM

 

...I have access to a weigh bridge at our local quarry that I get the use of free which is handy...

 

Eddie .

 

Worth you weighing the motorhome (overall and axle weights) when you get the opportunity. There’s bound to be a big fresh-water tank (150 litres?) that would eat into the payload if filled to the maximum and I notice that it doesn’t seem to be uncommon for RHD 148H models advertised on-line to be on the 3500kg chassis. At least, if you find that there is a potential ground-clearance problem at the rear, fitting air bellows to the rear axle should address this and be fairly inexpensive.

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Derek Uzzell - 2019-07-20 9:06 AM

 

Bogfoldcruiser - 2019-07-20 8:43 AM

 

...I have access to a weigh bridge at our local quarry that I get the use of free which is handy...

 

Eddie .

 

Worth you weighing the motorhome (overall and axle weights) when you get the opportunity. There’s bound to be a big fresh-water tank (150 litres?) that would eat into the payload if filled to the maximum and I notice that it doesn’t seem to be uncommon for RHD 148H models advertised on-line to be on the 3500kg chassis. At least, if you find that there is a potential ground-clearance problem at the rear, fitting air bellows to the rear axle should address this and be fairly inexpensive.

 

Yip 150 Ltrs is correct . I guess the days of like my old Landy 109 we just extended the rear shackles is frowned upon by the rule makers , just like home made tow bars LOL . I think air bags are the future though .

Eddie .

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not specific to the 148H but think Carthago in general a very well built and really good vans, my only critisism or advice would be, watch the payload, by the time you have the standard packs on and an awning, fuel gas and "the better half" you may be suprised at what you have or don't have left. Mine was based on a 3500 alko chassis and had it upgraded to the 3850, at no cost, but i still take it to the weigh bridge just for peace of mind. having said all that it is a quality product. The only other issue of course if you do get anything over 3500 is the need for a C1 and the associated speed restrictions in some places on the continent (if you want to go) personally I am generally not in a hurry, but 80 klm in Holland I struggle with.
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we had a i148 A class version for two years and it was really well built, but a little large for us...it ran on the 4.25t heavy chassis and payload wasn't an issue..

 

we downsized to another A class, this time the slimmer lighter C- compactline i138 which we love.

I run it, fully laden at 3420kg (including extra wine allowance) with ebikes, two batteries, solar, satellite system, usual tables and chairs etc...

 

the t148h will be light on payload at 3500 and 3650 womt increase the rear axle capacity....likely to be the place where you will get an issue.....

if you can go large, choose one on a heavy chassis.....if on 3.5t light then weigh it as part of the deal to check sufficient payload...

 

as an aside, I have a spare set of carpets for this model (wrong ones sent for our van)

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bolero boy - 2019-07-20 8:51 PM

 

....if you can go large, choose one on a heavy chassis.....if on 3.5t light then weigh it as part of the deal to check sufficient payload...

 

Eddie has already bought the motorhome (ref his posting of 20 July 2019 8:43 AM above)

 

As the vehicle has a “64” registration plate, it may be assumed that it is based on a Fiat Ducato X250 chassis (example in this advert)

 

https://www.dicksonsofperth.co.uk/motorhomes/Carthago/c-tourer-148h-automatic/1347

 

rather than on the Ducato X290 chassis that was introduced in mid-2014.

 

With secondhand motorhomes it’s as well to be aware of known problems/idiosyncracies affecting the base-vehicle as well as the conversion. For example, Ducato X250 models had a long history of rain-water leaking into the engine compartment through the seal/drain at the base of the windscreen.

 

Servicing also needs to be considered and (assuming that Eddie’s 2014 Carthago has the 2.3litre motor) a timing-belt replacement would be due in 2019. The Fiat service schedule also advises replacement on a 48-month basis of the (notorious) fuel-filter cartridge, air and pollen filters and the brake fluid. I’m guessing that Carthago fits 'non-maintainable’ leisure-batteries, but it would be worth checking the electrolyte level of the starter-battery for peace of mind.

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Derek .

*****rather than on the Ducato X290 chassis that was introduced in mid-2014.

 

With secondhand motorhomes it’s as well to be aware of known problems/idiosyncracies affecting the base-vehicle as well as the conversion. For example, Ducato X250 models had a long history of rain-water leaking into the engine compartment through the seal/drain at the base of the windscreen. ***

 

It was first registered October 2014 so should be the later Chassis if that is the case . New timing belt is on my list , I can fit this myself along with the usual filters and fluids although a full service MOT comes with it .

 

It's fitted with 2 x 100 (as I remember) leasure batteries , which are non maintainable as you say Derek . What was the problem with the Fuel filter ?

 

Eddie

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Ducato ‘X250' models were built from mid-2006 to mid-2014, after which the models were/are commonly called ‘X290’.

 

As there’s usually quite a delay between a chassis being supplied to a motorhome manufacturer, the conversion being carried out and the motorhome eventually being bought and UK-registered, as your Carthago was registered in October 2014 there’s a good chance it’s based on a X250 chassis not on a X290.

 

Fortunately, when the Ducato cab is retained, it’s very easy tell the difference between the two as the X250 has a frontal treatment with large deep upswept headlamps (1st attached picture below), whereas the X290 has much shallower headlamps and more of a clam-shell bonnet (2nd attached picture below).

 

X250 Ducatos had a plastic-body fuel-filter with a replaceable element and a notorious reputation for leakage: X290 Ducatos have a metal ‘disposable’ fuel filter.

1643178437_X250Carthago.jpg.96f0ca0434e2d3af1199ef14a33eeadc.jpg

1476753838_X290carthago.jpg.28b3e40febfc3b8039b73353e69b81f9.jpg

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This 2019 forum thread discussed leakage issues with the plastic-bodied fuel-filter

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Ducato-X250-fuel-filter-leak/51057/

 

but evidently the problematical filter was replaced with the disposable metal-canister type when Euro 5 Ducatos were introduced in 2011. So it looks like this is not something you need to be concerned over. (There are pictures of the two different filter types in my posting of 14 January 2019 6:35 PM on the link, so it will be easy for you to confirm that your Carthago has the canister filter.)

 

I really disliked the Ducato X250’s frontal treatment (picture below) and some motorhome manufacturers changed this, either as part of the normal conversion or as an expensive option. The X250 Carthago photo above shows a radically different grille and front panel, and I assume your motorhome has this. I dread to think what a new panel would cost...

X250.jpg.09224752230c10388c2c79245d797b8c.jpg

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Besides the fuel-filter leakage issue that related to pre-Euro 5 Ducatos, the other X250 common complaint (as I touched on above) was about rainwater running down the windscreen and into the engine compartment. It wasn’t a universal problem, but it certainly wasn’t rare and would be worth you checking if your Carthago shows any signs of it happening.

 

It was discussed here

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-Ducato-scuttle-issue/38410/

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-Ducato150-Windscreen-Scuttle-Trim-Panel-Leaks-Into-Engine-Bay/39970/

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"Besides the fuel-filter leakage issue that related to pre-Euro 5 Ducatos, the other X250 common complaint (as I touched on above) was about rainwater running down the windscreen and into the engine compartment. It wasn’t a universal problem, but it certainly wasn’t rare and would be worth you checking if your Carthago shows any signs of it happening. "

 

I checked that one out and it all looked squeeky clean with no signs of water or water ingress or a clean up job having done .

 

Eddie .

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Derek Uzzell - 2019-07-20 8:18 AM

 

 

 

It’s worth noting in the review the comment

 

As with all C-tourer low-profiles, the 148 H is available on a 3.5-tonne chassis, but you can also upgrade to 3,650kg or a Heavy chassis and 4,250kg. The latter will give you well over a tonne of payload (before options), so you can make full use of the motorbike-sized garage and its own 250kg allowance.

 

Wheelplan: 2-AXLE-RIGID BODY

Revenue weight: 4250kg

 

People , copied from the online Is my car taxed form shows 4250Kg , so it appears to be the uprated version , would this be the correct assumption to make .

 

Eddie

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Carthago introduced the C-Tourer T 148 H in 2011 ready for the 2012 ‘model-year’ and (to the best of my knowledge and that of GOOGLE!) the only frontal treatment then available was the standard Ducato ’nose’ as shown in the attached photo below of a 2012-model T 148 H.

 

The 2013 Carthago catalogue

 

http://www.southdownsmotorcaravans.co.uk/2013-carthago-motorhomes/downloads/southdowns-2013-carthago-c-tourer-motorhome-brochure.pdf

 

still shows these models having the standard Ducato front end. But a GOOGLE-search for images of 2014 C-Tourer T 148 H motorhomes reveals the ‘special’ Carthago-provided frontal treatment shown in the upper photo on my posting of 22 July 2019 8:41 AM above - as does Carthago’s relevant 2014 catalogue.

 

http://www.southdownsmotorcaravans.co.uk/pdf/southdowns-2014-carthago-c-tourer-t-brochure.pdf

 

Mid-2014 was when Fiat released the Ducato ‘X290' that had/has a revised front - with shallower headlamps and a different bonnet to the outgoing ‘X250’ range - and a C-Tourer T 148 H for the 2015 model-year reflects those cosmetic changes, as shown in the lower photo on my posting of 22 July 2019 8:41 AM above.

 

(Rapido followed a similar route, with Ducato X250 ‘profile’ models initially having the standard front, then a special and expensive GRP front being offered as an option, then that option being dropped when the Ducato X290 was introduced.)

 

To decide visually whether a Ducato-based profile-design motorhome might be based on an X250 or X290 chassis, it won’t matter what the converter might have done to customise the standard radiator grille/bumper arrangement, the identifying factor will always be the shape of the headlamps.

1772598468_2012carthagoT148H.jpg.46f55b3a6cf0f10d90c8c856fde42509.jpg

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