Changing Habitation Halogens to LED

[WhiteCheyenneMan]

With only one 85ah gelbattery at the moment, I am changing my Hymer Van 562 internal halogen lightsto LED's. I have removed two different bulbs, both rated 10 watts. The HymerHandbook is as helpful as ever by omitting to state what fitting they are but,the first one is helpfully labelled MR16+C 12v 10w. The second one is merelylabelled 12v 10w. Is it a G4? The bulb fits a flush mounted light, with afrosted glass(?) cover over the hob and in the bathroom. It plugs into the sideof the fitting, rather than the back.
Most web sites simply state that their bulbs are 12v withonly one site stating that their bulbs are rated for 11v-15v and I know that Ineed a range at least as large as that.
For the MR16, I don't want the flat fittings with yellowled's clearly visible. In our van we had led's with little lenses over each oneand this improved the brightness and the beam.
Does the +C mean anything material on the MR16?
Can anyone confirm the LED equivalent fitting for the secondbulb (side fitting)?
Where can I buy the sort that I prefer capable of accepting awide voltage range?

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/921/4zo3sr.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/924/1LKgBM.jpg

[Uncle Bulgaria]

Try Aten Lighting (atenlighting.co.uk) Very helpful. I replaced all my halogens with leds from Aten 5 years ago - a mixture of cool white and warm white depending on the use. All are still working. You can buy cheaper lights on the internet but Aten seem to have a good name for the quality of their products. Aten are based in Melton Mowbray.

[Thai Bry]

WhiteCheyenneMan - 2017-01-19 10:39 AM

With only one 85ah gelbattery at the moment, I am changing my Hymer Van 562 internal halogen lightsto LED's. I have removed two different bulbs, both rated 10 watts. The HymerHandbook is as helpful as ever by omitting to state what fitting they are but,the first one is helpfully labelled MR16+C 12v 10w. The second one is merelylabelled 12v 10w. Is it a G4? The bulb fits a flush mounted light, with afrosted glass(?) cover over the hob and in the bathroom. It plugs into the sideof the fitting, rather than the back.

Most web sites simply state that their bulbs are 12v withonly one site stating that their bulbs are rated for 11v-15v and I know that Ineed a range at least as large as that.

For the MR16, I don't want the flat fittings with yellowled's clearly visible. In our van we had led's with little lenses over each oneand this improved the brightness and the beam.

Does the +C mean anything material on the MR16?

Can anyone confirm the LED equivalent fitting for the secondbulb (side fitting)?

Where can I buy the sort that I prefer capable of accepting awide voltage range?

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/921/4zo3sr.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/924/1LKgBM.jpg

We got a friend to change our bulbs in our Hymer for the LED ones. We went for cool white in the living area, and reading lights under the drop down bed at the front. All our lights had a small glass lens over the original bulbs, which we put back on once the new LED's were installed.

Same for the Bathroom area.

Went for Warm white in the rear bedroom area - which on our van - is above the rear garage.

We then changed the light above the hab door by using the G4 type LED. 

It was a while ago now, we got all ours off the web , but came from a person in Derbyshire. 

They are not made in China, and have never blown once in the last 6 years that we have had them installed.

I say the above as some people have had issues with the ones made in China, other forum members have said they have had no issues, with the LED's made in China- which are slightly cheaper.

So it looks like you pay your money and take your choice.

Just checked and best to go for the 11V-15V type, as this gives you some lee-way.

Hope this helps

[colin]

This site gives sizes of pins. http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/b.pl/socket-db-tp61.html

There are better (easier) sites to use but can't find one on quick search.

[Airstream]

Hi,

Changed mine for these

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331414272492?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

They work for us

 

Rsy

[Derek Uzzell]

WhiteCheyenneMan

 

The following webpage from Aten Lighting (as mentioned by Uncle Bulgaria above) covers MR16 and G4 LED bulbs (Your 2nd photo is indeed of a G4 halogen bulb)

 

https://www.atenlighting.co.uk/caravan-motorhome-lighting

 

I’m not sure if it’s still possible to obtain the original type of LED bulb that comprised a cluster of individual ‘glass dome’ LEDs - you may have to settle for the more modern type with SMD (Surface Mounted Device) LED chips as shown in the MR16 section here

 

https://www.atenlighting.co.uk/caravan-motorhome-lighting/mr16-leds

 

Although your present MR16 halogen bulbs are rated 10W, I suggest that you opt for a higher wattage for the LED equivalent and for ‘warm white’ colour rather than ‘cool white’. For example

 

https://www.atenlighting.co.uk/15led-mr16.html

 

Otherwise this one if you don’t fancy the higher light output

 

https://www.atenlighting.co.uk/10led-mr16.html

 

Side-pin G4 LED bulbs are shown here

 

https://www.atenlighting.co.uk/caravan-motorhome-lighting/g4-leds/side-pin-g4

 

These are offered in 23mm, 30mm or 44mm diameter. You’ll need to select a size that will fit into your light fitting and, from your description, I’m guessing you’ll need 23mm-diameter. If that’s so, any of the 23mm-diameter 6, 8 or 9 LED bulbs should do and (once again) I suggest you choose the “warm white” colour (unless you are an ex-welder seeking blue-arc nostalgia!)

 

(You’ll note the 10V-30V regulation on all the bulbs I’ve referred to above.)

 

I may still have a few old-style ‘glass dome’ LED MR16 bulbs left over from when I swapped my Hobby motorhome’s halogen bulbs to LED equivalents. These failed to produce the amount of light-output I wanted and I subsequently replaced them with higher output SMD LED bulbs.

 

It’s perhaps worth saying that (in my experience) buying LED bulbs on price alone may be a mistake. One of the original MR16 bulbs I bought failed spectacularly and on several of the MR16 SMD replacements one or more of the chips ceased to illuminate after a while.

[WhiteCheyenneMan]

Uncle Bulgaria - 2017-01-19 11:12 AMTry Aten Lighting (atenlighting.co.uk) Very helpful. I replaced all my halogens with leds from Aten 5 years ago - a mixture of cool white and warm white depending on the use. All are still working. You can buy cheaper lights on the internet but Aten seem to have a good name for the quality of their products. Aten are based in Melton Mowbray.

Thanks Uncle!

[WhiteCheyenneMan]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-01-19 2:05 PMWhiteCheyenneManThe following webpage from Aten Lighting (as mentioned by Uncle Bulgaria above) covers MR16 and G4 LED bulbs (Your 2nd photo is indeed of a G4 halogen bulb)https://www.atenlighting.co.uk/caravan-motorhome-lightingI’m not sure if it’s still possible to obtain the original type of LED bulb that comprised a cluster of individual ‘glass dome’ LEDs - you may have to settle for the more modern type with SMD (Surface Mounted Device) LED chips as shown in the MR16 section herehttps://www.atenlighting.co.uk/caravan-motorhome-lighting/mr16-ledsAlthough your present MR16 halogen bulbs are rated 10W, I suggest that you opt for a higher wattage for the LED equivalent and for ‘warm white’ colour rather than ‘cool white’. For examplehttps://www.atenlighting.co.uk/15led-mr16.htmlOtherwise this one if you don’t fancy the higher light outputhttps://www.atenlighting.co.uk/10led-mr16.htmlSide-pin G4 LED bulbs are shown herehttps://www.atenlighting.co.uk/caravan-motorhome-lighting/g4-leds/side-pin-g4These are offered in 23mm, 30mm or 44mm diameter. You’ll need to select a size that will fit into your light fitting and, from your description, I’m guessing you’ll need 23mm-diameter. If that’s so, any of the 23mm-diameter 6, 8 or 9 LED bulbs should do and (once again) I suggest you choose the “warm white” colour (unless you are an ex-welder seeking blue-arc nostalgia!) (You’ll note the 10V-30V regulation on all the bulbs I’ve referred to above.)I may still have a few old-style ‘glass dome’ LED MR16 bulbs left over from when I swapped my Hobby motorhome’s halogen bulbs to LED equivalents. These failed to produce the amount of light-output I wanted and I subsequently replaced them with higher output SMD LED bulbs. It’s perhaps worth saying that (in my experience) buying LED bulbs on price alone may be a mistake. One of the original MR16 bulbs I bought failed spectacularly and on several of the MR16 SMD replacements one or more of the chips ceased to illuminate after a while.

Many thanks Derek for such a comprehensive reply! It's just what I needed. I was looking at Aten Lighting, but hadn't spotted the voltage regulation, because I hadn't gone that far into the detail. The 44mm diameter G4's should fit the flush fitting down lighters in the kitchen and bathroom. 

I'm guessing that, from looking at 10w 12v halogens online, the light output is some 250 lumens. So, for the 2 bedroom spots I'm going to try the 15-LED MR16's which should produce the same amount of light and if it were softer, that would be fine (we read on backlit tablets!).

But I'm dithering over the dinette/lounge area. I could up the lumens to 310 by selecting the 21-LED bulbs or, I could go mad and try the 35w Spots https://www.atenlighting.co.uk/spotbeam-mr16.html which look better to me (I still don't like the yellow spotted ones!). I'm just not sure how much brighter they will be, too bright possibly, even in warm white and, 'No', I'm not an ex-welder!! 

It's all a matter of personal preference, I know, but any thoughts on my dilemma?

[Derek Uzzell]

The SMD LED MR16s bulbs aren’t ‘spot’ bulbs. They do not have rear reflectors and, consequently, will have a beam-angle probably around 120 degrees. I don’t think this is a bad thing in a motorhome, but if you really want a focused ’tight’ beam, you’ll need to opt for the ’spot’ type. As you will be replacing 10W MR16 halogen bulbs, opting for a LED bulb that’s said to be equivalent to a 35W halogen bulb seems like potentially serious overkill to me.

 

(You are sure that the 44mm-diameter LED G4 equivalents will fit in your down-lighters? My Hobby had several small flush-fitting down-lighters in its kitchen and bathroom and the only side-pin LED bulbs that would go into the light units were 23mm-diameter ones - and shoehorning in those wasn’t that simple.)

 

It’s not easy to select LED replacement bulbs based merely on their on-paper specification and, if you plan to replace a lot of halogen bulbs, getting it badly wrong can prove costly. You can either make a ‘best guess’ and hope it’s right or (as I did) buy one of each bulb that you believe might be suitable and try them in the motorhome.

 

Phone the chaps at Aten Lighting and tell them what you have in mind - I’ve always found them helpful.

[WhiteCheyenneMan]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-01-19 6:43 PMThe SMD LED MR16s bulbs aren’t ‘spot’ bulbs. They do not have rear reflectors and, consequently, will have a beam-angle probably around 120 degrees. I don’t think this is a bad thing in a motorhome, but if you really want a focused ’tight’ beam, you’ll need to opt for the ’spot’ type. As you will be replacing 10W MR16 halogen bulbs, opting for a LED bulb that’s said to be equivalent to a 35W halogen bulb seems like potentially serious overkill to me.(You are sure that the 44mm-diameter LED G4 equivalents will fit in your down-lighters? My Hobby had several small flush-fitting down-lighters in its kitchen and bathroom and the only side-pin LED bulbs that would go into the light units were 23mm-diameter ones - and shoehorning in those wasn’t that simple.)It’s not easy to select LED replacement bulbs based merely on their on-paper specification and, if you plan to replace a lot of halogen bulbs, getting it badly wrong can prove costly. You can either make a ‘best guess’ and hope it’s right or (as I did) buy one of each bulb that you believe might be suitable and try them in the motorhome.Phone the chaps at Aten Lighting and tell them what you have in mind - I’ve always found them helpful.

Thanks again Derek!  You're probably right about the 35w equivalent, so I guess that I will just have to embrace the new(?) technology and stick to the yellow blobs!

And, yes, I'll give Aten a call as I'm not totally confident about the 44mm size. That is the diameter right at the edge but, the reflector does curve in quite sharply, so I may be better with a smaller size.

Thanks again!

[Derek Uzzell]

For the down-lighters you’ll need to measure the distance from the ‘socket’ into which the G4 halogen bulb currently plugs to the surface of the reflector directly opposite the socket. if you draw on thin card circles with a diameter of 23mm, 30mm and 44mm, cut them out and use them as templates, you should be able to decide which LED bulb will fit.

 

A G4 halogen bulb tends to be about 31mm long from the end of its ‘prongs’ to the end of its glass capsule and, being narrow, is usually quite easy to insert into a light-fitting that carries the bulb horizontally. The side-pin LED equivalent, being disk-shaped and having electronic components on its rear, can be much trickier to insert. If there’s doubt, opt for the smaller diameter.

 

This link is to another company marketing LED bulbs suitable for leisure vehicles

 

http://www.bedazzledledlighting.co.uk/index.php

 

The information provided for each bulb is a bit more comprehensive that Aten Lighting’s.

 

[WhiteCheyenneMan]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-01-20 7:47 AMFor the down-lighters you’ll need to measure the distance from the ‘socket’ into which the G4 halogen bulb currently plugs to the surface of the reflector directly opposite the socket. if you draw on thin card circles with a diameter of 23mm, 30mm and 44mm, cut them out and use them as templates, you should be able to decide which LED bulb will fit. A G4 halogen bulb tends to be about 31mm long from the end of its ‘prongs’ to the end of its glass capsule and, being narrow, is usually quite easy to insert into a light-fitting that carries the bulb horizontally. The side-pin LED equivalent, being disk-shaped and having electronic components on its rear, can be much trickier to insert. If there’s doubt, opt for the smaller diameter.This link is to another company marketing LED bulbs suitable for leisure vehicleshttp://www.bedazzledledlighting.co.uk/index.phpThe information provided for each bulb is a bit more comprehensive that Aten Lighting’s.

We settled on 10 LED G4 side pins for the kitchen (so that we can see to cut open the boil-in-a-bags!), 6 LED G4 side pins for the Bathroom and 10 LED MR16's for the Dinette and bedroom, all from Aten Lighting. I bought 1 x 10 LED G4 side pin and 1 x 15 LED MR16 as a trial, they arrived today and the 15 LED in the spotlight reminded me of your Welding comment, even in sunshine! Very impressed with the service and speed of delivery from Aten.

So thanks again Derek!

[WhiteCheyenneMan]

All LED bulbs received from Aten Lighting (ordered on Sunday) and all 8 fitted in less than 20 minutes. 

SAFETY WARNING: Bathroom lights twist to remove glass and gain access to the bulb, DO NOT, repeat, do not, use a screwdriver to remove holder (as you must in the kitchen) because the spring clips holding it in come down on your fingers with approximately 10 x the force of a mousetrap! I have the bruises to prove it!!