Diesel the new Asbestos?

[starvin marvin]

I read today an article,with interest, considering the above question and the comparison was made. You certainly don't want to be breathing the"emissions" from either of them, that's for sure.

 

This is going to be an increasingly important issue for motorhomers.

 

 

 

 

[Rayjsj]

Agree a thorny problem, but what are the alternatives to Diesel ? Electric battery technology is not up to the job. Large Petrol engines as the USA used until very recently are hugely inefficient and are themselves polluters. I can see many Cities bringing in restrictions, some already have, but I seldom want to go to or through Cities in my Mororhome anyway.

The Truck, Bus, and Taxi problem will need solving first, I see No resolution to large Truck pollution in the near future. Too much trade relies on them.

[Bop]

A thorny problem indeed but could you just imagine what would happen to the UK MH industry if the government at the time bans/taxes/restricts all older-style diesels from the road; the balance sheets of each and every MH Dealership would be affected massively if the older stock became null and void.

 

 

 

[david lloyd]

For those of you who have witnessed the endless convoys of large trucks on major routes like the A63 and N10 in France you will know that the emissions produced by Motorhomes across Europe are a drop in the ocean compared to the transportation of imports/exports by road.

 

What was that chaps name who brought all this about....? Oh yes, Dr Beeching. Perhaps, one of the good things that could come out of Brexit may be a reduction in the volume of heavy truck miles if we revert to producing more of our own food, particularly if we return to seasonal foods rather than a demand for every type of fruit and veg throughout the year.

 

Then there's the issue of aircraft........

 

David

[Charles]

It's just a trend at the minute.

 

Diesels bad for humans.

Petrols bad for the planet.

 

So take your pick, they'll be on about petrol and global warming next. You never here anything about reducing human population which would solve the problem totally.

[malc d]

Charles - 2017-04-17 6:28 PM

 

It's just a trend at the minute.

 

Diesels bad for humans.

Petrols bad for the planet.

 

So take your pick, they'll be on about petrol and global warming next. You never here anything about reducing human population which would solve the problem totally.

 

 

 

You're right - you forgot one:

 

Humans bad for the planet.

 

;-)

[gordonaldson]

Not heard of anyone that drunk Diesel or inhaled it as a drug but know of about 3 people who's hands were forever covered in it as they worked with the stuff. They were sad to say taken from us due to the big "C".

As too Lorry's instead of Rail, money is the feature here. Who would think that it is cheaper to send a Locomotive or Coach on the back of a low-loader, by road, because it is the cheapest way. Stobart reduced their Rail side due to this. Greedy Railtrack sorted that out. Mind you if your running a big service between London and Edinburgh for example you just stick the sick vehicle in the train somewhere and no one notices, except on the TOPS list.

[Bulletguy]

david lloyd - 2017-04-17 6:20 PM

 

For those of you who have witnessed the endless convoys of large trucks on major routes like the A63 and N10 in France you will know that the emissions produced by Motorhomes across Europe are a drop in the ocean compared to the transportation of imports/exports by road.

 

What was that chaps name who brought all this about....? Oh yes, Dr Beeching. Perhaps, one of the good things that could come out of Brexit may be a reduction in the volume of heavy truck miles if we revert to producing more of our own food, particularly if we return to seasonal foods rather than a demand for every type of fruit and veg throughout the year.

 

Then there's the issue of aircraft........

 

David

 

Exactly!!!

 

And that's what i find most odd, particularly in London with the manic obsession over their LEZ, yet massive Dreamliners, 747, Airbus etc pour into Heathrow every 60 seconds during the day........and they are increasing the size of the airport with a new runway!!

[Muswell]

Bulletguy - 2017-04-17 10:25 PM

 

david lloyd - 2017-04-17 6:20 PM

 

For those of you who have witnessed the endless convoys of large trucks on major routes like the A63 and N10 in France you will know that the emissions produced by Motorhomes across Europe are a drop in the ocean compared to the transportation of imports/exports by road.

 

What was that chaps name who brought all this about....? Oh yes, Dr Beeching. Perhaps, one of the good things that could come out of Brexit may be a reduction in the volume of heavy truck miles if we revert to producing more of our own food, particularly if we return to seasonal foods rather than a demand for every type of fruit and veg throughout the year.

 

Then there's the issue of aircraft........

 

David

 

Exactly!!!

 

And that's what i find most odd, particularly in London with the manic obsession over their LEZ, yet massive Dreamliners, 747, Airbus etc pour into Heathrow every 60 seconds during the day........and they are increasing the size of the airport with a new runway!!

 

London, with Sadiq Khan as mayor, is doing what it can to improve air. He is opposed to the expansion of Heathrow but the government has given the go-ahead. If they taxed aircraft like they do cars the price of travel would go up and people would spend their holidays at home instead of flying all round the world to sit on the beach or ruin the places they visit like flocks of sheep.

[Charles]

Muswell - 2017-04-18 8:36 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-04-17 10:25 PM

 

david lloyd - 2017-04-17 6:20 PM

 

For those of you who have witnessed the endless convoys of large trucks on major routes like the A63 and N10 in France you will know that the emissions produced by Motorhomes across Europe are a drop in the ocean compared to the transportation of imports/exports by road.

 

What was that chaps name who brought all this about....? Oh yes, Dr Beeching. Perhaps, one of the good things that could come out of Brexit may be a reduction in the volume of heavy truck miles if we revert to producing more of our own food, particularly if we return to seasonal foods rather than a demand for every type of fruit and veg throughout the year.

 

Then there's the issue of aircraft........

 

David

 

Exactly!!!

 

And that's what i find most odd, particularly in London with the manic obsession over their LEZ, yet massive Dreamliners, 747, Airbus etc pour into Heathrow every 60 seconds during the day........and they are increasing the size of the airport with a new runway!!

 

London, with Sadiq Khan as mayor, is doing what it can to improve air. He is opposed to the expansion of Heathrow but the government has given the go-ahead. If they taxed aircraft like they do cars the price of travel would go up and people would spend their holidays at home instead of flying all round the world to sit on the beach or ruin the places they visit like flocks of sheep.

 

Flying all round the world to sit on a beach where is isn't constantly raining you mean, you can't blame people wanting to go somewhere warm, can you?

 

 

[StuartO]

Diesel engines present a useful target for blame (and thereby an opportunity for taxation) but isn't the real cause of pollution in the cities the traffic congestion? If the traffic cogestion was dealt with and all the vehicles kept moving smoothly toward their destination, wouldn't there be a lot less pollution anyway?  And don't motorhomes do low mileages, mostly outside cities?

 

Maybe we do need to ban dirty, smokey old diesels from cities, especially badly maintained lorries and buses, but we shouldn't resort to banning all diesels in a blunderbus way, catching out people who have invested in motorhomes for long term and only minimally polluting use.  I doubt this will carry much weight with politicians but we could try to get this message across.

 

[david lloyd]

I agree StuartO - the Congestion charge and LEZ penalties haven't actually resolved the problem - but they have earned a great deal of money for London. Why is it that the major cities of Europe (and the world) are seeing increasing pollution when vehicke emission have constantly been reduced by manufacturers at the cost to the consumer? I would also reason that it is because they spend more time sat in traffic or crawling around the city centre. It is some 25 years since I worked and lived in London and even then the average speed of traffic was worse than horse drawn transport a century earlier.

 

But governments tend to use very blunt instruments to tackle issues and there is no voice loud enough in the motorhome world to make the case heard for them being exempt.

 

The tube is running to capacity (with more being built) the buses and trains too. Taxis are never out if work and there are even enterprising folk using rickshaws yet the traffic continues to increase in cities. Fortunately for me I have no desire to visit city centres but there are many that do. I don't know what the answers are but then I'm not paid to work those problems out - but there whole departments who are and, once again, seem to have got it wrong as I said at the beginning.

 

As to cause, my only thought is that greater mobility for work, leisure etc have necessitated increased traffic usage of whatever form.

 

David

[Muswell]

Traffic in London has reduced since the congestion charge. But changes to improve the environment, help pedestrians and cyclists, and prioritise public transport have made it slower for other vehicles. This is good. Nobody needs to use a non-commercial vehicle in the congestion zone unless they are physically disabled.

[starvin marvin]

Getting rid of older diesels by using a scrappage incentive is an easy hit for the Govt. Replacing diesel bus fleets is another relatively easy if costly hit.

 

It's my guess that much more of the same pollutant comes from gas central heating. However diesel is the current bad boy and will be targeted. Thanks VW.

 

 

[teflon2]

starvin marvin - 2017-04-18 9:56 AM

 

Getting rid of older diesels by using a scrappage incentive is an easy hit for the Govt. Replacing diesel bus fleets is another relatively easy if costly hit.

 

It's my guess that much more of the same pollutant comes from gas central heating. However diesel is the current bad boy and will be targeted. Thanks VW.

 

 

Nice one marvin the emission from gas central heating ie condensing boilers is acidic wait until the idiots in control find that out there will be lots of blame shifting.

As a heating engineer I could get low water content boilers to run at 90+% efficiency with normal emissions and condensing boilers are only marginally more efficient until they exceed dew point and then they are no better so acid emissions for little or no advantage you couldn't make it up.

But the same morons penalised petrol over diesel so there is little hope for common sense and they scrapped the trolley bus *-) John

[euroserv]

I understood that most of the acid was emitted as condensate and was channeled into the waste water system, and is not airborne? I know little about boilers though...

 

It won't help older motorhomes but there is a ray of light for new vehicles. Electric commercial vehicles have been a bit of a non-starter due to the weight of the batteries etc and the 3500Kg limit to avoid tachographs but there is legislation on the way in the EU and the UK to raise the max GVW to 4250Kg for electric or hybrid vehicles so that they may be driven on a normal licence, won't need an operators licence or a tachograph and would still have a useful payload. Several manufacturers have solutions developed and pretty much ready to go with Iveco being clearly in the lead and they are part of Fiat Chrysler; so Fiat should not be far behind. I would expect a petrol/electric hybrid van within the next 2 or 3 years.

 

Thinking about the argument that most motorhomes only cover low mileages..... Perhaps the actual mileage could be restricted and monitored by the MOT process and exceptions could be made for vehicles that genuinely cover minimal mileages?

[david lloyd]

euroserv - 2017-04-19 10:13 AM

 

I understood that most of the acid was emitted as condensate and was channeled into the waste water system, and is not airborne? I know little about boilers though...

 

It won't help older motorhomes but there is a ray of light for new vehicles. Electric commercial vehicles have been a bit of a non-starter due to the weight of the batteries etc and the 3500Kg limit to avoid tachographs but there is legislation on the way in the EU and the UK to raise the max GVW to 4250Kg for electric or hybrid vehicles so that they may be driven on a normal licence, won't need an operators licence or a tachograph and would still have a useful payload. Several manufacturers have solutions developed and pretty much ready to go with Iveco being clearly in the lead and they are part of Fiat Chrysler; so Fiat should not be far behind. I would expect a petrol/electric hybrid van within the next 2 or 3 years.

 

Thinking about the argument that most motorhomes only cover low mileages..... Perhaps the actual mileage could be restricted and monitored by the MOT process and exceptions could be made for vehicles that genuinely cover minimal mileages?

 

Many of the specialist motorhome insurance policies already either restrict or offer different mileage bands Nick. That could prove a useful way to exempt Motorhomes from extermination.

 

David

[keninpalamos]

david lloyd - 2017-04-19 12:17 PM

 

euroserv - 2017-04-19 10:13 AM

 

I understood that most of the acid was emitted as condensate and was channeled into the waste water system, and is not airborne? I know little about boilers though...

 

It won't help older motorhomes but there is a ray of light for new vehicles. Electric commercial vehicles have been a bit of a non-starter due to the weight of the batteries etc and the 3500Kg limit to avoid tachographs but there is legislation on the way in the EU and the UK to raise the max GVW to 4250Kg for electric or hybrid vehicles so that they may be driven on a normal licence, won't need an operators licence or a tachograph and would still have a useful payload. Several manufacturers have solutions developed and pretty much ready to go with Iveco being clearly in the lead and they are part of Fiat Chrysler; so Fiat should not be far behind. I would expect a petrol/electric hybrid van within the next 2 or 3 years.

 

Thinking about the argument that most motorhomes only cover low mileages..... Perhaps the actual mileage could be restricted and monitored by the MOT process and exceptions could be made for vehicles that genuinely cover minimal mileages?

 

Many of the specialist motorhome insurance policies already either restrict or offer different mileage bands Nick. That could prove a useful way to exempt Motorhomes from extermination.

 

David

Restrictions, monitoring, processing, ilimination, extermination, exemptions, regulations, registration, limitations, examination. Were any of you born in 1984 by chance? I only bought the thing to go on holiday and relax. I think I'm living on another planet sometimes.

[keninpalamos]

starvin marvin - 2017-04-18 9:56 AM

 

Getting rid of older diesels by using a scrappage incentive is an easy hit for the Govt. Replacing diesel bus fleets is another relatively easy if costly hit.

 

It's my guess that much more of the same pollutant comes from gas central heating. However diesel is the current bad boy and will be targeted. Thanks VW.

 

"bad boy" until the next one comes along?? and there will be a next one and don't just thank VW They have all been at it one time or another they just never got caught. All down to the legislation being impossible for manufactures to meet in the allotted time. Short term politics

[david lloyd]

keninpalamos - 2017-04-19 4:17 PM

 

david lloyd - 2017-04-19 12:17 PM

 

euroserv - 2017-04-19 10:13 AM

 

I understood that most of the acid was emitted as condensate and was channeled into the waste water system, and is not airborne? I know little about boilers though...

 

It won't help older motorhomes but there is a ray of light for new vehicles. Electric commercial vehicles have been a bit of a non-starter due to the weight of the batteries etc and the 3500Kg limit to avoid tachographs but there is legislation on the way in the EU and the UK to raise the max GVW to 4250Kg for electric or hybrid vehicles so that they may be driven on a normal licence, won't need an operators licence or a tachograph and would still have a useful payload. Several manufacturers have solutions developed and pretty much ready to go with Iveco being clearly in the lead and they are part of Fiat Chrysler; so Fiat should not be far behind. I would expect a petrol/electric hybrid van within the next 2 or 3 years.

 

Thinking about the argument that most motorhomes only cover low mileages..... Perhaps the actual mileage could be restricted and monitored by the MOT process and exceptions could be made for vehicles that genuinely cover minimal mileages?

 

Many of the specialist motorhome insurance policies already either restrict or offer different mileage bands Nick. That could prove a useful way to exempt Motorhomes from extermination.

 

David

Restrictions, monitoring, processing, ilimination, extermination, exemptions, regulations, registration, limitations, examination. Were any of you born in 1984 by chance? I only bought the thing to go on holiday and relax. I think I'm living on another planet sometimes.

 

No, I'm with you - just want to get plenty of use out of the thing before the scrap page scheme comes in.

 

We're off tomorrow - to do just as you say - relax and enjoy it.

 

David

[pepe63xnotuse]

Well, if this North Korea & U.S lark keeps ramping up, a bit o' carcinogenic soot being belched out of your exhausts, will be the least of our worries! :-S

[Bop]

Some of these UK policy makers need to jump on a plane to Iraq and go and visit the crude oil gas flare fires which scatter the country. The pollution levels from these flares are so extreme that it makes London look like an extra from the Eden Project.

[keninpalamos]

pepe63 - 2017-04-19 7:17 PM

 

Well, if this North Korea & U.S lark keeps ramping up, a bit o' carcinogenic soot being belched out of your exhausts, will be the least of our worries! :-S

. Modern diesels used in motorhomes and campers vans do not "belch" anything, even 1990's diesels if maintained do not "belch" they release a pipette of carcinogenic particulates. It's industrial and house heating, ships, trains and boats and planes (there's a song there some where) that belch. We must stop beating our selfs up and point the finger at the real culprits and not the easy target. We are not politicians (lol)