sandalwood Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Still looking to downsize from Rapido 776Ff ( lovely vehicle fully automatic) to either Knaus with the “ funny bathroom) or Rapido van. Only reason is to have smaller vehicle. Both seem rather restrictive in space. By that I mean the very narrow spaces between cooking and bathroom, seem to have to bend sideways for drawers etc,. Very difficult choice to make after having so much room in large one. How on earth do you make decision, would nit want to make mistake. Ian :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 It's very easy to get it wrong by thinking 'we will adapt to less space'. Yes you probably will adapt but will adapt you still enjoy it? Many people have downsized and many say they are happy which may well be true but given many people's reluctance to accept they may have got it wrong I just wonder? We downsized from an Auto Trail Cheyenne to an Auto Sleeper Warwick Duo and whilst it was nicer to drive especially on a long haul or in strong winds it was hard work living in it so we upsized to an Auto Sleeper Executive that was only marginally larger than the Duo but considerably more pleasant to live in. Our chosen layouts may not be everyone's ideal but you get the drift I hope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 The internet is choc-a-bloc with decision making tools. I've used the same two to buy caravans and motorhomes, all of which met our needs at the time of purchase. I use two to double check the outcome. One is based on deciding which are the top five 'must haves' ie whatever you buy 'must have' these characteristics such as size, loading margin, cost. This should reduce the number of vans for consideration. I then decide on the 'need to have' attributes such as the layout, storage; a minimum of five and maximum of ten with at least one dealing with the emotional side of the decision eg does it look good? Each 'need to have' is weighted as far as importance to the decision with the total of the weightings equalling 100. Then each van being considered is scored. The 'best' in each 'need' scores ten and the rest are scored against that ten. The reasons for the score are written down so that in the future you can easily recall why you bought, or didn't buy, a van. I always have a 'ten' for each 'need'. I then multiply the scores by the weighting and tot up the result. This identifies the best van. Second is a simple pros and cons with an assessment out of 100 of both pros and cons. A sort of benefits of each vehicle and the risk it is the wrong vehicle. There are two other things I do which are the most important. One is to be absolutely clear what I want to achieve. I write an objective of what I am trying to achieve and this may be 100 words or more. Without this, I would be wasting my time trying to make a decision. The second thing is to accept that I cannot make the perfect decision and the best I can do is make an informed decision based on my current needs and work hard to make that decision work. I can understand Ian not wanting to make a mistake but a considered, structured approach to decision making will reduce the likelihood of a mistake compare to the fag packet approach. In Ian's case, I would throw the existing van into the mix just to be sure that it is no longer suitable. If Ian wants to make a decision based on 'emotion', then the best system I use is to list up to six options, give each a number, and then roll the dice. If I don't like the option it comes up with, I roll the dice again and keep doing this until I get one I can live with! It works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 When we were choosing our first motor home (which we still have after 4 years and can't find an alternative that we would be happy to change for) the first criteria was length due to parking at the house. This restricted vehicles to no more than 6.5m. The next criteria was layout and we decided that a rear u-shaped lounge would suit us best. There were panel vans and coachbuilts that would fit these criteria. Having looked at various options in both types of vehicle we decided that a panel van would be best due to the reduced width and ease of driving in tight situations. The downside was the reduced internal width but we have never found this to be a problem at all. We have since looked at similar coachbuilt layouts to ours and the only difference of course is the extra width but we can't really see what additional benefit this would bring as it just seems to be pretty useless space in the middle of the van. Yes, it looks, and is, a more open spacious feel but, for us, the extra internal width does not outweigh the benefits of the reduced external width. One thing we did do was go for a 6.36m van instead of the 6.0m van we set out to buy as we found the extra length provided a fair bit more internal storage with no adverse effect on driving, parking etc. This had proved to be the case in use. I think the reason we don't have a problem with the width of a panel van is that ours opens out at the u- shaped rear lounge so it feels quite spacious. The continental style of front dinette and fixed rear beds does not appeal to us as they all feel very cramped and narrow compared to our rear lounge layout and I can see why width might be more of a concern with this layout. We have never found the need to make up beds from settees to be a problem as it takes 2-3 minutes tops and we gain a significantly more comfortable and relaxing lounge during the day. We like the idea of a more flashy coach built but just can't find one that would make it worth changing ad most of them are continental style layouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Yes I agree with Don above. We downsized three years ago now from a six berth, two doubles and two single bunks, to a three berth, one double one single. We have no regrets whatsoever. Ours has a double dinette, twin table at front and full four place table at rear with two side benches. This allows us to leave the double bed at the rear made up if we desire and still have the full use of all the facilities including the front dinette which is ideal when there is only the two of us, but still having the option of the third bed when needed. Strangely the internal length of our PVC is the virtually same as our previous van only the width being narrower, as has been commented on earlier. The external length is 6.39m and width 2.070 against 6.74m x 2.23m, however due to the depth of the rear panel moulding on the coach built, the internal length difference is only 100cm! The width reduction is the passage between the kitchen and the toilet / shower room, does not cause too much difficulty as there is enough space at the front and rear that makes the whole layout open and have a roomy feel. There is still sufficient room to fully open the fridge, oven doors and kitchen drawers. The payload is 701kgs which is quite sufficient for our needs. We did find that we cut down on some of the 'stuff' we had in the old van, due to losing the external lockers, but we only had to leave out things we hadn't used for years anyway. The van is a delight to drive and is so much easier to manoeuvre. The whole driving experience is better in terms of acceleration, hill climbing and parking, plus there is the added bonus of just around 40 mpg against the 28-30mpg we were getting, it is surprising the difference to fuel costs that makes. Everything with a motorhome/ caravan is a compromise and it just means you have to decide what you are prepared to compromise on. We are not bothered that we cannot pass each other in the gangway and when food preparation is being carried out it is not difficult to both be doing what you need to make things run smoothly. We are much happier to take the van out for the day from the site if we desire or as is more often move to pastures new, so much easier to park up with the narrower width, though we still have to consider our length. Obviously just my/ our opinions but as I said earlier we have no regrets at all. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 After many years happily enjoying several panel van conversions (mainly rear lounge IH) we bought a Cathargo Malibu only to find there were too many issues for us to live with - many of which are touched upon in this thread. However, out of that wrong decision came the right one as we decided to 'upsize' - but just a little. After seeing a friends new Hymer B544 we loved the sheer amount of lounge space it offered and which we often need due to inclement weather. We managed to find a lovely used (15 months old) example with very low miles and plenty of specification extras. There are too many plus features to mention on here but, suffice to say, at just a few inches longer than the panel vans we now have much more comfort and space - admittedly in a wider higher vehicle but that does not deter us from using it to visit places of interest. Good luck with the decision making - it's possibly the most important thing about buying a motorhome. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 as David just posted, smaller coachbuilts are now a viable alternative to PVCs, offering better insulation, more space (due to more vertical sides), perhaps more headroom, and often a better turning circle as PVCs can have a long wheelbases.... our first three MHs got progressively larger (a common theme) with the third being a 7.4m Carthago. we loved the van, loved the build etc but OH felt it was a bit big.... so, we looked at coming down to a PVC, but hate rear lounge vans, especially PVCs.... for many reasons.. looked at the typical euro 6m PVC, Adtria Twin, Malibu etc....but had a hankering for the Hymer B544, lovely van....but a full width one... then we look at the Carthago Compactlne....i138 is 6.4m long by 2.12m wide so a proper Coachbuilt with double floor etc in (virtually) the same footprint as the XLWB PVCs....but with shorter wheelbase for far better manoevrability.. it has a 5 seater lounge (how many seats does a couple need?), two huge double beds, large fridge freezer, good washroom with separate shower enclosure, large water tanks, fully winterised etc, etc.. the difference in driving this one over the previous van is quite marked and belies the 15cm difference in width, it's just so easy....seems to go through most gaps a large car would... Hymer have a similar range with their Exsis and the B class dynamic line....covering a range of different layouts... we find the van totally usable for all year round touring including a couple of long tours each year.....for us, best of most worlds.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron. Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 sandalwood - 2018-03-18 12:02 PM Still looking to downsize from Rapido 776Ff ( lovely vehicle fully automatic) to either Knaus with the “ funny bathroom) or Rapido van. Only reason is to have smaller vehicle. Both seem rather restrictive in space. By that I mean the very narrow spaces between cooking and bathroom, seem to have to bend sideways for drawers etc,. Very difficult choice to make after having so much room in large one. How on earth do you make decision, would nit want to make mistake. Ian :-( Ian - All I would suggest is that if you are already having doubts now regarding size you certainly will later on. We looked to downsize after owning around ten various sized vans over the years, although not a PVC. We had always admired the quality of the IH PVC brand and after years of ' should we or not,' just like you, we finally bit the bullet. The quality, drivability, etc, was all we could ask for but sadly our fears about the size issue became reality and after two years we just weren't enjoying things anymore and have now sold it. Sometimes I wonder if it is a mind thing - having already identified a likely problem are you then looking for it until it becomes fact? However, even if that is the case the end result is the same. It's not something you can evaluate by hiring for a short period either as it's little things that start giving you aggro over time, all size related. Whatever, it's a costly decision to get wrong so think long and hard about it. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Basil - 2018-03-19 6:30 AM.... Everything with a motorhome/ caravan is a compromise and it just means you have to decide what you are prepared to compromise on. ... Exactly. And as you get older having a smaller vehicle to drive (and park?) becomes more important than it used to be, so you have to work out what you will be happy to sacrifice in return for achieving that new priority. A narrower MH is likely to be at least as important as a shorter one. That stage in your motorhoming evolution is likely to coincide with other changes in your priorities, such as a need to avoid having to climb over each other (or down from a drop-down bed) to go to the toilet in the night. And you might also be shortening your touring horizons, so less or less distant foreign touring, and you might want the comfort of using proper campsites, with more spacious showers etc, more often. There is no single "right" solution for everyone who suddenly reaches a certain age, so when you find yourself wanting smaller providing you can still be comfortable living and sleeping in it, you need to write yourself a list of considerations then rank them in priority order. And then if you haven't already done it, you need to start looking at what's available within your budget. It should be a pleasant experience, going to the Shows again with a newly opened mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 My only thought is that when you've done all your evaluating and research and all that, just remember to leave a little bit of room for the heart. No matter how good it works out on paper, don't you just have to love it a bit? I recall that when my son left the army we went over to help him settle, and he decided he would need a car. I said that the Skoda Fabia would be a suitable car. His response was along the lines of " Dad, nobody ever rushed into the pub on the way home from work on a Friday evening and excitedly told his mates " I've just bought a Skoda Fabia" ". He bought a special edition Alfa Romeo, his mates thought it was fantastic and so did he. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebeaches Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 sandalwood - 2018-03-18 12:02 PM Still looking to downsize from Rapido 776Ff ( lovely vehicle fully automatic) to either Knaus with the “ funny bathroom) or Rapido van. Only reason is to have smaller vehicle. Both seem rather restrictive in space. By that I mean the very narrow spaces between cooking and bathroom, seem to have to bend sideways for drawers etc,. Very difficult choice to make after having so much room in large one. How on earth do you make decision, would nit want to make mistake. Ian :-( Two years with a Rapido V68 pvc and no regrets. It was a downsize from a coachbuilt. The van is 6.4m long, 2.05 metres wide with a 2.3 litre 130 hp engine and automatic (comfortmatic) gearbox. It's a foot narrower than the coachbuilts we'd had, and what a difference that makes. Twin comfy fixed beds in the back, standard half-dinette at the front, 4 belted travel seats, and 135-litre three-way fridge - works perfectly for us. Nocturnal visits to the bathroom without climbing over or disturbing each other. The improved driveability make it ideal for long distance touring on the Continent. But one of the things we like best about the pvc is the ability to slide open the giant side door and let the outside into the van! Likewise, in hot weather, opening the barn doors at the back, so the air flows through. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I made a downsize apart from a A- class motorhome. Just in case. And that will be a westfalia PVC of a VW T6 being a Kepler one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Can any one tell me where the fresh tank, waste tank, and the camping gas bottle is fitted in a westfalia kepler one my 2018? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Their was a Uk couple who bought one in germany. It is on Piston Heads Website. All details about this are described and all details to get it in the UK . Just fascinating how they have done it. Whit stunning pictures made.. We are speaking here about a westfalia made Kepler one built in france and owned by Rapido. Not to confuse what Vw makes . My things above are cleared by Liverpool VW made PCV. dealer.. How much noise makes a Trumatic boiler BG 10? And a webasto air top 2000 watt on the diesel tank for heating the van. Who sits in every truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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