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Drive Home Insurance?


Alistari33

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Hi All,

 

We are thinking about buying a motorhome in Germany and are looking for comprehensive insurance to drive it home.

 

As I understand it, the German export plates will give 3rd party insurance but not comprehensive.

 

Currently I've tried Comfort, Caravengaurd, Safeguard, Saga, Caravan Club, AA and Adrian Flux. The best I can get is via Adrian Flux who will cover on the VIN number BUT only once in the UK and then only for trips involved in getting UK registration MOT etc

 

Can anyone help ?

 

Thanks

 

Alistair

 

 

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Welcome to the Forum

 

Obtaining fully comp insurance for the mainland Europe leg has been a problem for many years.

 

I imported a new van from Germany in 2002 and all I could get was 3rd party - I just made sure I drove very carefully with fingers crossed !!!

 

Alternatives are: transport it by low-loader to the ferry port OR use a 3rd party like Bundersvan

http://www.bundesvan.co.uk.

 

I thought most UK Motorhome insurance companies would provide fully comp for the UK leg based on a VIN number, but may be wrong.

 

Perhaps others will have more up to date information on the current situation.

 

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Hi The only dealer in Germany that I know of who does fully comp insurance is the one I use and the late Judgemental used and that is www.Duemo-duelmen,de . He still did last year when I brought my new motorhome from him
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I looked into importing a used motorhome from Germany last year with   the help of Bundesvan, whom I had used before and were very helpful.

 

The project was eventually abandoned but as I recall they could get comprehensive cover for the journey back to UK using a company based in Belgium but at a price - about £300 for short term cover. 

 

I discovered that the reason (or maybe the excuse) for UK companies not providing cover is an EU convention or agreement that EU insurance companies will not offer cover for vehicles which are not registered in their own country.  This is in the context of normal (i.e. all year) motoring insurance and presumably the aim is to avoid the complexity (and un-enforcability by police etc) of a motoring insurance market operating chaotically across the whole of Europe, with vehicles covered by companies here there and everywhere as people shop around for the best price etc.  This system probably should not prevent UK companies from covering vehicles being imported into UK but it does - perhaps because UK companies just don't want the unnecessary complication of covering foreign-registered vehicles en route into UK.  Anyway I couldn't persuade my UK insurer to help.  But some EU insurers clearly do cover vehicle for transit journeys, at a price.  Presumably they are seeing a profitable niche market.

 

Last time I imported a MH from Germany I got Bundesvan to do the collection and delivery to my home and it worked a treat.  They have trade plates for the UK leg and I think they used German export plate for the journey to the Channel port.  Insurance wasn't discussed and the vehicle arrived intact.  I had assumed they were covering the risks but maybe if there had been substantial damage there would have been awkward questions about who was going to pay.

 

How should you go about it?  Well lots of people just drive their new or used MH to the Channel port themselves on German export plates and then get cover for the journey home in UK on the VIN number from their UK insurer and continue to display the German plates for that leg too.  That is the low cost way but clearly there are risks and DVLA certainly don't like it. 

 

They argue that because you are a UK citizen you are obliged to register and tax (and MOT) a vehicle before driving it in UK, so you should get it transported from the port of arrival to your home.  (Presumably a foreign driver could complete the delivery drive in UK but not you!)  I think this is ridiculously inflexible of them but they are adamant.  There is a legal exemption from the obligation to tax and MOT a vehicle if a compulsory test is a pre-requisite (eg it's legal to drive for a MOT test without first taxing your car because you need the MOT to do so) and since a vehicle inspection (and often an MOT) is required if you import a vehicle, the exemption should apply.  The exemption only applies to a journey directly to the test location by appointment but that expemtion is nevertheless potentially useful.

 

But DVLA argue that this exemption does not apply to personal imports of vehicles.  I have found no justification for DVLAs view that the legal exemption does not apply in the case of importing a vehicle and I reckon that if push ever came to shove, a prosecution simply would not happen, so why they insist on being awkward in this way is a bit of a mystery.

 

Good luck!

 

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Alistair

 

I ‘self-imported’ a motorhome from Germany in 2005.

 

At that time it was possible to obtain ‘comprehensive’ insurance cover from several UK providers based on the to-be-imported motorhome’s VIN-number, but with that cover commencing only when the vehicle arrived on UK soil. Once the motorhome had been UK-registered, the VIN-number datum in the policy was replaced by the vehicle’s UK registration number.

 

I was actually able to obtain ‘comprehensive’ insurance cover through just one major UK provider (supposedly) covering the motorhome from the point-of-sale in Germany to my home in the UK. The policy used the vehicle’s VIN-number and there were no stated duration restrictions (ie. no time limit was set for me to bring the motorhome from Germany to the UK or for me to get the motorhome registered once it had arrived in this country).

 

My working career had included several years dealing with motor, marine and personnel insurance claims when I worked for the Post Office and - it has to be said - I was very wary of the legality of the policy I was provided with. However, as I intended to 3rd-party insure the motorhome in Germany via the export-plate method you’ve mentioned, there seemed to be no particular risk to me if I had the ‘comprehensive’ policy as well. After I had UK-registered the motorhome I contacted the UK insurance provider and challenged the legality of the policy they had sold me and (while the provider was insistent that my motorhome had been covered ‘comprehensively’ for the complete Germany-to-home trip) I’ve never believed this was true.

 

‘Drive home’ insurance for imported vehicles has been discussed at some length on these forums. This is probably the most recent thread

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Insuring-while-Importing/38701/

 

The problem for the ‘self-importer’ really comes down to how prepared that person is to believe that what’s being offered insurance-wise will protect him/her if an accident occurs. Ploys have been suggested (eg. driving the motorhome back to the UK on the foreign dealer’s trade-plates) but it needs to be asked what protection this would provide in the event of an accident.

 

Last year I discussed exporting motorhomes from France to the UK with a French motorcaravan dealer. He told me that he had sold several new motorhomes to UK residents, so I asked whether the vehicle’s were French-registered or carried the dealership’s trade-plates, or were driven to the nearby Channel port by the dealership’s staff, or were insured through the French dealership somehow. He said that he had no idea what arangements the buyers had made regarding registration and insurance - they just paid for the motorhome and drove it away.

 

My rule of thumb is that, if the vasst majority of insurance providers (be they UK or non-UK based) refuse to provide a drive-home ‘comprehensive’ ’ insurance policy for a self-imported motorhome, but one provider agrees to do so, it would be wise to explore VERY thoroughly the legality and scope of the policy that’s being offered.

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Insurance for ‘self-imported’ motorhomes was mauled over in 2008 (and before)

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/The-final-word-on-import-insurance/12729/

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Insurance-on-the-continent/12635/

 

The most recent EU Motor Insurance Directive can be viewed via the following webpage (and the best of luck!)

 

http://ec.europa.eu/finance/insurance/legislation/index_en.htm#maincontentSec8

 

My understanding is that the position continues to be that a UK insurance provider is legally allowed to provide ‘comprehensive’ insurance for a vehicle being driven back to the UK having been bought in another EU country and the insurance cover can be for the complete trip.

 

However, the stumbling-block also continues to be the requirement to record on the UK’s Motor Insurance Database (MID) a vehicle’s ‘registration mark’ shortly after a policy has been issued.

 

https://www.mib.org.uk/media/136001/broker-guide-v12.pdf

 

As I understand it, inputting the ‘registration mark’ into the MID requires this datum to conform to the UK’s registration-number format and a vehicle’s VIN-number fails to meet that criterion. I’ve no idea how UK insurance providers meet this challenge, but this relatively recent MHFun discussion suggest that some seem prepared to.

 

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/insurance-for-german-import.113225/

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Prior to our van being registered in the UK (after delivery to UK agent from factory in Germany) we where required to insure it, AIUT there where no pre issued regs numbers and the insurance was issued on the VIN, so it would seem the legal aspects of the insurance can be covered. Having been involved in some unusual work which required insurance, it seems to me that any extension to fully comp is purely down to the whim of the underwriter.
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I got my reply as follows

 

"unfortunately not. We had this issue before but all the german insurances do not offer full comprehensive insurance only 3. Party for Export plates.

 

With previous customers we had the same problem and they solves it by getting an additional insurance for the Way from their UK insurance. Maybe You Can ask then for this service"

 

 

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  • 1 year later...

The postings above are 2016-vintage, but relevant as I notice that, on Page 20 of the latest issue of MMM Magazine (March 2018) there is a letter headed “Self imports...” by Mr Kevin Fletcher.

 

Mr Fletcher’s letter mentions that he ‘self imported’ a motorhome from Germany in 2015, that it’s possible to obtain limited-duration 3rd-party insurance via German export registration-plates, and then adds

 

“...if you shop around here, there are companies who will insure the ‘van fully comprehensive using the VIN until the registration process is done, thus saving the cost of employing drivers and garages at both ends of the journey. From memory, I used Comfort for this and then switched back to Saga after the first year was up.”

 

Wherever Mr Fletcher obtained ‘drive home’ comprehensive insurance from in 2015, it would not have been Comfort Insurance. They would not provide it then and they will not provide it now.

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Apparently there is an EU rule (or perhaps more of a convention) that insurance companies do not cover vehicles based outside their own country, even though otherwise the EU favours free movement and competition, which ould suggest that they should all compete right across the EU.  You can however imagine the chaos of making a claim on your Czech insurance company for an accident in France with a Polish lorry.

 

At any event when I pursued this with my UK insurer a while ago they were adamant that the EU rule or regulation or whatever prevented them from offering cover, even for a transit journey to bring a personal import back to UK.  Bundesvan did however tell me of a belgian insurer they'd found who would offer comprehensive insurance for a transit journey back to UK  but for a price of over £300 for a journey lasting only a day or two.  It isn't worth an insurance company's while to issue a policy of any sort for much less than this of course.

 

So I suggest the only way to do a personal import from Germany to UK if you don't want to pay Bundesvan to bring it to UK for you, is to rely on the German 3rd party insurance to get you to Calais and then a UK policy on the VIN number to get you from Dover to home.

 

To make things extra complicated, DVLA regard it as illegal for any UK resident to drive a vehicle in UK on German Export Plates because you are obliged to tax as well as insure the vehicle before driving on British roads, even for a transit journey from the arrival port - and they advise you to have the vehicle transported instead!

 

I suggest that if you want the benefits of importing a MH from Germany doing it yourself, you have to settle for 3rd party cover to get to Calais and drive carefully and within the speed limits all the way.

 

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As I said in my posting of 1 September 2016 7:54 AM above, even though in principle UK insurance companies could legally provide ‘comprehensive’ insurance to cover a motorhome coming into the UK after being purchased abroad, the problem is issuing a policy and then complying with UK requirements regarding identifying the vehicle to which the policy relates.

 

The Motor Insurance Bureau advises on the following MID Broker Guide

 

https://www.mib.org.uk/media/136001/broker-guide-v12.pdf

 

about the Motor Insurance Database (MID)

 

"MID1 largely relates to Personal motor business, generally single vehicle policies, where the vehicle registration mark is shown on the certificate of insurance. This data has to be submitted to the database within 7 days of the effective date of policy inception, midterm change, cancellation, lapse or renewal.”

 

As I understand it the MID is set up to accept only registration-marks that conform to the UK norm and, as a motorhome bought abroad won’t be UK registered until the importer jumps through the DVLA’s hoops, the above obligation cannot be met by an insurance broker. Certainly that’s what Comfort Insurance say - that they are unable to issue a motor insurance policy for a vehicle that is not UK registered.

 

It’s hard to see how an UK insurance broker could issue a ‘drive home’ insurance policy for a self-imported motorhome and comply with the MID-related obligation.

 

 

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But, follow the link in Derek's 28 August post above and look down for one of mine citing Lime Street brokers. They can insure UK registered vehicles outside the UK for use in a number of otherwise "uninsurable" countries, and could insure foreign registered vehicles in UK on one of their schemes. This provided much the same cover as f/c, but by buying two separate insurances. One covers the third party risks associated with use on roads, the other covers the vehicle itself and seemed to be similar to a goods in transit type insurance. I have no idea of the cost, and I seem to remember that the particular insurances would become invalid as soon as the vehicle was UK registered. My informant vas helpful and knowledgeable on the technicalities, so I think a 'phone call may well prove instructive. As the two policies are separate, it seems possible the theft and damage element might be able to be taken out in addition to the standard German third party only export insurance, that comes with German export plates. However, I'm sure they will explain - assuming they still offer these insurances.
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  • 9 months later...
Update on this although nothing new really. Just brought back a Challenger Vany V114 from Germany. I took the risk of just having third party insurance on trade plates which the dealer sorted. I also got fully comp from Adrian Flux but from entry to UK. I cant drive it on the road until registered but can for going to get work done for VCA etc. Its virtually impossible to get fully comp for the European side of the journey home and unless you are a dealer/company you struggle to get fully comp on a VIN. Its still cheaper to buy in Germany at the moment, even with a pretty ropey exchange rate and the expense of getting the vehicle up to UK standards. This is unlikely to last though. The pound is likely to devalue after brexit (or before if we have to have an election) and who knows what the protocols for importing will be post brexit. Its part of the reason I bought now rather than next year, too much uncertainty.
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Is this a daft question?

 

If you had sufficient time, and provided the German dealer sent you all the relevant paperwork (including invoices etc), why can't you register the vehicle with DVLA before collection from the German dealer? You get your plates, arrange your insurance, and go over and collect it.

 

Is there some bit of paper you have to pick up on entry to the UK? Does the vehicle have to be in the UK for registration?

 

Perhaps I have overlooked the depth of British bureaucracy!

 

Regards,

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Laurence - 2018-11-26 10:33 PM

 

Is this a daft question?

 

If you had sufficient time, and provided the German dealer sent you all the relevant paperwork (including invoices etc), why can't you register the vehicle with DVLA before collection from the German dealer? You get your plates, arrange your insurance, and go over and collect it.

 

Is there some bit of paper you have to pick up on entry to the UK? Does the vehicle have to be in the UK for registration?

 

Perhaps I have overlooked the depth of British bureaucracy!

 

Regards,

 

The possibility of ‘pre-registering’ with the DVLA a to-be-imported motorhome has come up before. It’s mentioned in this 2011 forum discussion

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Importing-from-Germany/22354/

 

and I commented as follows:

 

This sounds rather like a ploy that was suggested to me by the German dealer from whom I purchased my Hobby.

 

I had told him that I would be obtaining 'comprehensive' VIN-number-based dealer-to-home insurance from a UK insurance provider, but I wasn't 100% confident of its validity so I would need the vehicle to have temporary German registration and short-term 3rd-party insurance when I collected it.

 

He replied that he could send me the motorhome's documentation in advance of collection. I could then register the vehicle in the UK, inform my UK insurance provider of the UK registration-number and bring the UK registration plates with me when I collected the motorhome. Then there would be no requirement for German registration or insurance.

 

The obvious downside of this idea would be that I would be seeking to UK-register a vehicle that was currently not in the UK and (even if I had been prepared to be economical with the truth about that fact when I completed the DVLA's registration application) there was the real possibility that the DVLA would choose to physically inspect my 'virtual' motorhome before agreeing to register it.

 

At the time I thought this was a novel (but not really serious) suggestion from the German dealer, but it's possible that it could be done legally then by UK trade importers.

 

The insurance issue is trickier nowadays than it used to be as many UK insurance providers won’t offer insurance that’s effective until the imported vehicle has been UK-registered. And - where motorhomes are concerned - as it was commonplace for them to be brought into the UK and their speedometer/headlamps, etc. not subsequently modified to meet UK registration requirements, there’s now an extra procedure to confirm that the necessary modifications have been made. It MIGHT be possible for an individual to register a ‘virtual’ motorhome that’s not in the UK (as you’ve suggested in your 2nd paragraph) but there’s no doubt that it would involve lying to do so.

 

Personally, I continue to have reservations about whether a private individual can ‘self drive’ a to-be-imported motorhome to the UK nowadays and register it here and manage to maintain 100% legality throughout the complete procedure. I was pretty sure that what I was doing in 2005 when I drove back home the new Hobby motorhome I’d bought in Germany conflicted with UK legal requirements, but decided that the risk of this impacting negatively on me was minimal.

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The age of the motorhome being imported to the UK will determine whether or not an MOT test will be needed as part of the UK registration procedure.This is covered in the DVLA ‘import pack’ documentation.

 

The forms relating to the application to the VCA that needs to be made nowadays are on the following link

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/757186/motorhomes-mutual-recognition.pdf

 

It should be plain how this process would complicate ‘pre-registration’.

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Brian Kirby - 2018-01-30 3:40 PM

 

But, follow the link in Derek's 28 August post above and look down for one of mine citing Lime Street brokers. They can insure UK registered vehicles outside the UK for use in a number of otherwise "uninsurable" countries, and could insure foreign registered vehicles in UK on one of their schemes. This provided much the same cover as f/c, but by buying two separate insurances. One covers the third party risks associated with use on roads, the other covers the vehicle itself and seemed to be similar to a goods in transit type insurance. I have no idea of the cost, and I seem to remember that the particular insurances would become invalid as soon as the vehicle was UK registered. My informant vas helpful and knowledgeable on the technicalities, so I think a 'phone call may well prove instructive. As the two policies are separate, it seems possible the theft and damage element might be able to be taken out in addition to the standard German third party only export insurance, that comes with German export plates. However, I'm sure they will explain - assuming they still offer these insurances.

Further to the above, I have checked back with Lime Street and, unfortunately, they are no longer offering the service I outlined. The broker who ran the scheme has since left Lime Street and, having spoken to him, he advises that he has not taken the scheme with him. Apologies if anyone has had dashed hopes as a result.

 

If you get the "standard" German export plates with third party cover, you may be able to separately insure the vehicle for fire, theft and accidental damage, while in transit, but I suspect you'll need a pukka insurance broker to arrange this. Probably best to talk to someone local in preference to the large brokers. Possibly sold as goods in transit insurance. In conjunction with the German third party cover, the two insurances should then work together to provide much the same scope of cover as standard UK full comp. However, I don't know whether this would be obtainable where the "goods" in question are self-propelled!

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we went to dusseldorf to get our secondhand van and when we were told the import plates only covered 3rd party I asked the dealer to drive it to the port for me on his comprehensive cover which he did for free, I had contacted comfort before leaving dusseldorf so it would be covered as soon as we landed in the UK, all worked ok
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Two things to watch/check.

 

First on insurance. As stated above, and also in Derek's linked article, a few UK insurers will provide cover on the chassis number only as a temporary measure. However, once issued, that insurance has to be recorded on the Motor Insurers Database (MID) within a fixed time. I understand this is a legal requirement with severe penalties for the insurer if they fail to comply. Make sure you understand the timescales you will have to work to.

 

So, the insurer needs to have from you a UK registration number before his period of grace expires, and this requires swift completion of the whole UK registration process. Because you are not in control of the time the various government departments take to process your various applications, this cannot be guaranteed, and any delay to the process will be likely to mean time runs out.

 

You will need to plan all the details before you leave to collect the van, so plan to return early in the week, or on a Sunday, so that you get applications off by at least signed-for next day post (and to check that the documents were signed for on the next day) as early in the working week as possible. Pre-book the various inspections, so that you can get these completed as early in the process as possible.

 

If the headlamps must be changed (some A class headlights can be switched to a UK acceptable pattern - but all coachbuilts and PVC's will require this), make sure your nearest dealer has a pair in stock (and make sure they match the right dipping originals as to DRLs (i.e. LED or tungsten) and whether or not motorised, or sort and obtain patterned headlamps of exactly equivalent type. If the replacements do not match the originals in these respects the electronics will find you out, causing potential deleys.

 

Identify exactly what the dash type configuration is, and have the right Lockwood speedo card to hand before you leave for Germany.

 

All this is to ensure no time is wasted in hanging around for deliveries/ work/ inspections on your return.

 

Make sure you have a plan B that is understood with the insurer, should time run out. For instance he may agree to let you cancel and hold the premium money against completion of registration, after which the number can be entered onto the MID. If your van is off public roads the lack if registration plates and insurance won't be a legal problem, but lack of insurance may well be a concern.

 

Second, on VED. If the German CoC issued with the vehicle shows a figure for CO2 emissions at item 49, the vehicle will be taxed as a luxury car, with considerable cost penalties. The UK government is unique in attaching vehicle tax to CO2 emissions and purchase cost. Since most makes available in Germany are also available in UK, the manufacturers will be likely to have two versions of the CoC, one used for export to UK and the other used for the rest of the EU. The UK version omits the CO2 data. You may be able to persuade the German dealer to obtain a duplicate in the UK form from the converter if he explains the vehicle is destined for the UK. Otherwise, you may need to do this direct with the converter. I did this with our Knaus (using "Google German" via e-mails), but it took some time. It's that time thing again!

 

There is a letter jointly signed on behalf of the NCC and DVLA post August 13 that, as far as I am aware, remains extant. See attached JPG. This is quite clear on how DVLA are supposed to treat imports. Note that both base and converter's (final stage) CoC's are required, but that only the final stage CoC is to be taken into account when assigning the vehicle to a VED bracket. If this is correctly followed by DVLA, the vehicle will go to the PHGV or PLG VED band.

 

However, this time last year not everyone had got the message (probably due to staff turnover plus the new rates only coming into effect from 1/4/17) and some vans are known to have been assigned to the M1SP, band carrying first year VED (for a typical 130PS Ducato; 178 g/km) of £800, falling to a standard VED rate of £140 thereafter, plus, if the purchase price exceeds £40,000, an additional £310 per year for the next five years . Compare this to the VED payable for the same vehicle if correctly allocated to PLG, of £245 VED. It is true that after the first five years the VED payable falls to £140, but breakeven is not achieved until year 22! (All at 2017 prices)

 

So, if your van is wrongly allocated to one of the CO2 based bands you should definitely challenge this - or be prepared to pay an extra £1,580 over the first five years of ownership!

 

Now, back to the registration process, and you can see how one administrative error might take way longer to resolve than the insurer's period of grace from the MID. That plan B is essential! :-)

DVLA---NCC-letter-web.thumb.jpg.e3e0c5dba975790773ac10200dd20379.jpg

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Following on from the comments Brian has made regarding Co2 emissions, I've attached two versions of CoCs for a Challenger motorhome, first registered in Germany April 2018. The first is Italian one from the original van builder, the second from Challenger on completion of the conversion. As you can see the first has the Co2 emissions, the final CoC does not. You'll notice that the combined Co2 emission on the original Coc (Ciclo Misto) is 177, thats a lot of VED.

 

On insurance, Iv'e just checked an Adrian Flux policy for registering on a chassis number and it states:

"Without a valid UK registration number we will only cover your vehicle for road use when driving to and from a pre-booked MOT or SVA test centre appointment. Until we receive a valid UK registration number your vehicle will not appear on the Motor Insurance Database"

 

So, no mention of 30 days, but in order to minimise risk, getting a move on with the import procedures is recommended!

CoC Challenger 1.pdf

CoC Challenger 2.pdf

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