Ducato 2.3 130 Multijet Rapido loss of power.

[Chris_s]

Hi Everyone,

 

This post is mainly aimed at Nick Fisher,

I have read some of his advice to other forum members, and think if anyone can help me, it'll be him. But if anyone else has any ideas feel free to post.

 

I have a Ducato based Motorhome with an Iveco engine 2.3 130 Multijet on an 07 plate.

 

I am experiencing similar problems to this post ;

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/FIAT-X250-2-3Ltr-Engine-problem/34024/

 

Although I do have a few other symptoms which maybe help with the diagnosis/guess.

 

1. As with the above it started with a loss of power/hesitation and accompanying whooshing sound at 60mph 2200rpm ish. Intermittently every 100-300 miles.

2. The turbo boost pressure solenoid has always buzzed but it has now started, on occasion, to buzz rhythmically three or four times in a row (Buzz-Buzz-Buzz-Buzz) the falls silent until the accelerator is pressed. Then its back to its normal constant buzz.

3. One three occasions the van started losing power at low speeds (15mph ish) and once when trying to do a hill start at some lights.

4. The final symptom is that today, while pulled up with the engine running, it started coughing and spluttering as if starved of fuel/air and tried to cut out, this was accompanied by some grey smoke from the exhaust. I turned the van off and on again and it was the same for 10 seconds then suddenly back to normal with a big plume of smoke as the revs increased, then ran normally.

 

Strangely, this last event didn’t trigger a fault code. The only fault codes that have been triggered in the psat are. P0235 Turbocharger/Supercharger Boost Sensor A Circuit and occasionally P0638 Throttle Actuator Control Range/Performance Bank 1.

 

I am at the end of my research on this and plan to change some parts, but would like your opinion on the mostly likely culprit first before I start spending;

 

a. Turbo Boost pressure/EGR valve solenoid.

b. Throttle Body.

c. EGR Valve (I have had this off and cleaned it with no improvement).

d. Turbo waste gate (Unlikely).

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated,

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Chris.

 

[euroserv]

Hello,

 

You are going to need a solenoid valve and a throttle body. There will be nothing wrong with the EGR valve.

 

Next time you have a problem and are seeing grey smoke, stop the vehicle and leave the engine running. Remove the right hand (as you are looking at it) rubber pipe from the solenoid valve and see the immediate improvement. This will prove my diagnosis.

[Chris_s]

Thanks for the fast response Nick.

 

I am struggling to see how removing the pipe the actuates the EGR valve has an effect on a faulty Throttle Body, but I guess that what you clever folks are there for.

 

I'll start saving my pennies......

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[euroserv]

I can explain that for you.

 

The throttle body controls the flow of air in the inlet react to maintain/achieve the correct pressure in the manifold. If it is faulty, the air solenoid that controls the EGR valve will have to do a lot more work because it is the only other way of balancing the air pressure. This causes the solenoid to over-heat and fail. Sometimes this failure is gradual and terminal, other times the excessive heat causes problems with the valve while it is hot and then when it cools down it is better but just as common is that it is damaged so that it only works properly when it is hot!

Therefore; we have found that if the engine will not rev up properly and is producing smoke, stopping the solenoid from operating the EGR valve will help to clear the problem with the throttle body by forcing it to open. The failure or malfunction of the solenoid is nearly always as a result of a fault with the throttle body and in almost all cases, replacing both will solve the problem. As a further benefit, the later throttle bodies have different characteristics and most owners notice improved driveability and improved fuel economy after the work is done.

 

 

[Chris_s]

Cheers Nick,

 

That makes sense, I'll get back to you when the work is done with some results,

 

Chris.

[Rubytuesday1200]

Hi Nick,

I am experiencing the rapid loss of power similar to Chris. I had a throttle body fitted in 2014 shortly after buying the motorhome its a e560 Bessacarr 07 model. within a 1000 miles the problem came back and I have struggled with it ever since. It happens more frequent now and so I need to find some one in the Cheshire area to sort the problem out. have you any suggestions of repairers in my area. i've contacted Fiat and they want about £800 for the throttle boby changeout.

 

i have at times disconected the plug onthe solenoid to disable the egr valve which worked fine but even with the egr deactivated the loss of power still happens.

[aandncaravan]

Nick is a class act and knows his trade better than anyone, but some really strange symptoms and fault codes can be caused my Mice getting into the engine inlet tract.

 

Therefore suggest you get this area looked at first, just looking at the Air Filter condition with give a clue as to whether a Mouse has been in there?

 

While this advice isn't relevant to a commercial van which gets used every day, Motorhomes are Mice heaven because they are idle so much of the Winter.

Mickey and his friends seem to be making themselves more at home in them lately judging by comments on the Forums.

We had the first of this season just last week, and an old Hymer yesterday with Mouse issues, so suspect there will be more as Motorhomes are used after their Winter rest?

 

 

[colin]

Rubytuesday1200 - 2017-03-28 5:26 PM

 

Hi Nick,

I am experiencing the rapid loss of power similar to Chris. I had a throttle body fitted in 2014 shortly after buying the motorhome its a e560 Bessacarr 07 model. within a 1000 miles the problem came back and I have struggled with it ever since. It happens more frequent now and so I need to find some one in the Cheshire area to sort the problem out. have you any suggestions of repairers in my area. i've contacted Fiat and they want about £800 for the throttle boby changeout.

 

i have at times disconected the plug onthe solenoid to disable the egr valve which worked fine but even with the egr deactivated the loss of power still happens.

 

you haven't listed symptons, but I always suggest checking for mice in the inlet tract as an easy to do check before doing more.

[Rubytuesday1200]

hi thanks for the comments but yes i have had the air filter out and checked the rodent situation.

[euroserv]

Sorry for the delay; i am available much less at the moment due to an ongoing project that while lucrative; is a real pain in the behind. That'll teach me!

 

Anyway,

 

If you have already replaced the throttle body, then it should be fine unless it's one of the rare cases of electrical failure rather than mechanical. There have been a few faulty units but mostly the ones fitted to 3.0 engines.

You say that a Fiat agent has quoted for the replacement....have they diagnosed this or is it your guess and their obviously gleeful response?

 

This must be examined further with a dealer level diagnostic device before you part with any more money. As has been said already; the symptoms provide clues, and you have not elaborated on that.

 

N

[euroserv]

I should also add that i don't suggest unplugging the solenoid electrically; this would cause further problems... it is the pipes coming out of the rear that i am talking about, and it is the right hand one that needs to be disconnected to get around the problem with it not running properly, smoking a lot and not responding to the accelerator properly if at all.

[Rubytuesday1200]

Thanks Nick for reply.

 

I have arranged with a local engineer to do a full diagnostics, he has the dealer level diagnostic kit. is talking about road testing with onboard diagnostics so hopefully he will get to the bottom of it.

 

 

[baden87]

Hi

What did the dealer find ?