Elddis 285 Motorhome 2020 YEAR

[freddie]

Hi does anyone know what the largest gas tank is that you can fit under these low slung Fiat chassis vans

it is a coach built

 

One firm says a 50 litre

another says 25 litre

 

I would like a 40 or 50 tank

so any help would be great

Thanks

[niktam]

I'm no expert but no doubt you will get more expert replies on rear axle loads. I have a 196 with a drop down bed and another two travel seats(with all the additional ironmongery) but your (published)payload is considerably less than the 196 which looks strange? Plus you have a great deal more weight in the rear end bathroom all on the rear axle. I have a spare wheel and there isn't a great deal of space at the rear underneath as the water and space heating are underneath as well. Any 285 owners out there.

 

I think you nearly double the gas weight to include the tank and that will increase the weight on the rear axle (over and above the weights)the further to the rear past the rear axle you hang it.

[weldted]

Our Elddis 255 had a 55 litre one slung under the shower area. Not sure of your layout. Our Burstner on the 4000 kg chassis has a a 25 litre one tucked up in the chassis. One of the conditions is they must be 225 mm from the ground.

[Derek Uzzell]

Details of the 2021 model-year Elddis Encore 285 can be found here

 

https://elddis.co.uk/models/encore-285

 

and there’s no particular reason to think the 2020 variant would be significantly different

 

The 285 is a relatively long model (7.408m) built on a Fiat Ducato ‘light’ ‘(3500kg) camping-car chassis with (apparently) no option to specify the ‘heavy’ chassis. The front and rear axle-load maxima are the usual 1850kg and 2000kg respectively, and the Mass in Running Order is quoted as 3040kg with zero allowance for water. The standard tyres are 215/70 R15CP, or 225/75 R16CP if 16” alloy wheels are chosen. A spare wheel/tyre is also standard, as is an ALDE heating system. The layout is as shown on the drawing attached below.

 

The 285’s gas system is described as having a "Compartment for 2x 10kg gas bottles, with fitted Truma en-route gas regulator” suggesting that the compartment may be sized to accept Flogas/Gaslight composite containers rather than 13kg Calor propane bottles.

 

https://www.flogas.co.uk/gaslight

 

The gas-locker is at the very rear of the vehicle on the right-hand side and, if the 2 x 10kg gas bottles capacity is correct, that equates to around 40 litres of gas.

 

A 285’s fresh and waste water tanks are underslung beneath the floor and (presumably) the spare wheel is too. However, given the model’s length, it ought to be possible to tuck an LPG tank somewhere underneath - perhaps longitudinally near the vehicle’s side, though (as weldted touches on) ground clearance might be an issue. Weldted’s Elddis motorhome was a 2012 Aspire 255 model which would have been Peugeot-based and somewhat shorter than a 285, but as a 55-litre LPG tank could be shoehorned under a 255, it might also go under a 2020 285.

 

I notice that Freddie owned an Elddis Majestic 185 in late-2017 and, in mid-2020, asked here if anyone owned a 285.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Elddis-285-Motorhome-anyone-got-one-/55837/

 

I don’t know if he received any PM feed-back after that enquiry, or eventually decided to purchase a 285, but it’s unlikely that anyone here will be able to provide informed advice on the LPG tank size unless they have ownership experience of the 285 model. (The firm that told Freddie that a 50 litre tank could be fitted either KNOWS that this is the case or was just guessing.)

 

Freddie has not said why he feels a need to have an LPG tank installed, but if the tank goes behind the motorhome’s rear axle and the existing gas-locker space is used for storing heavy stuff, as niktam has warned the rear axle’s 2000kg maximum could well be compromised.

 

(I would have thought that - if ‘autogas’ is to be the gas of choice - it would be simpler, cheaper, lighter and less potentially problematical to go for refillable gas bottles rather than an under-chassis LPG tank.)

[weldted]

On our Aspire 255 it was originally 3500 kg, I fitted semi air and went from 215/70/R15 to 225/70/R15. That gave me 3850 kg with a rear axle loading 2240 kg. Whilst I appreciate the 285 has a different layout I believe it is on the same chassis. On ours the gas locker held 2 x 6 kg propane. Fitting the gas tank ment I could put a second battery in the locker, along with all the just in case must haves that are never used.

[Derek Uzzell]

Your 2012 Elddis Aspire 255 would have been built on a Peugeot Boxer 'X250’ camping-car chassis, whereas a 2020 Elddis Encore 285 will be built on a Fiat Ducato ‘X290’ camping-car chassis. The two chassis will be conceptually similar, but that doesn’t mean they are the same. For example the X290 chassis will have an ‘optional’ 3650kg gross vehicle weight (GVW) that is generally downplated by motorhome manufacturers to 3500kg for driving-licence reasons.

 

In 2018 you recounted your Elddis motorhome’s handling peculiarities after its GVW had been increased to 3850kg.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Oversteer/48778/

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/mixed-tyres/49182/

 

You had been using your 255 for towing (thus the addition of a heavy tow-bar would have eaten into the available payload) and you’ve explained how its gas locker was reused to your advantage. I’ve attached an image of a 2012 Aspire 255’s layout and it will be plain that - from the habitation area’s entrance door rearwards - there are design differences. These might prevent the 55-litre LPG tank that was fitted under your 255’s shower area from be located in a similar position on an Encore 285, or they might not - the only way to be sure would be to carefully inspect the underside of an Encore 285.

 

In an earlier forum thread you said that your 55-litre LPG tank had originally be fitted to a motorhome you owned in 2004, then transferred to a follow-up motorhome in 2008, then installed on the 2012 Elddis Aspire motorhome you’ve mentioned above, primarily because the Elddis gas locker could only accommodate 2 x 6kg canisters. and you used the vehicle a lot in winter. Good reasons for retaining the LPG tank, but whether they match Freddie’s objectives is unknown.

 

What does need highlighting is the potential impact of modifying a motorhome while it is within its warranty period. An Elddis Encore 285’s gas system will have been designed, installed, tested and certified for an arrangement where two gas bottles can be carried in a dedicated locker; it was not built to have an external LPG tank retro-fitted by a 3rd party. So, if the 2020 Elddis 285 referred to in this thread’s title is still under warranty, it would be wise to consider the implications before making significant changes to it.

[weldted]

Thank you for your info Derek, we had renewed the tank on the 255 as it was showing signs of corrosion, so rather safe than sorry renewed it in 2018. It had been well primed and under sealed each time we changed vans and certified by a lpg gas engineer, I also fitted a deflector plate but possibly because it was virtually inline with the rear nearside wheel subject to a lot of road spray. And at the time we had contemplated selling could not in all good faith possibly sell it on with the tank although within its service date knowing the state of the outer service not do so. We bought a Burstner Iexo 736 and it is not possible to fit that size of tank, we have a 25 ltr one up in the chassis space only problem this van will eat the gas so considering a second one. As we need the gas locker for other things. One of which is a Honda lpg converted Genny, although we have a large storage area/garage right at the back keen to keep as much weight between the axles as possible. Re the unstable drive renewed the tyres all round handling now perfect. No sign of any defect with the tyres so remains a mystery?

[Derek Uzzell]

This 2019 forum thread

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Gas-tank-on-Burstner/53787/

 

includes some costings for installing an external LPG tank.

 

The reasons given for having the tank retro-fitted will be 100% valid for the people who chose to have it done. For me retro-fitting an LPG external tank would always have been unnecessary and a waste of money, as my motorcaravanning has never been in the winter months or for extended periods and my motorhomes have never been short of storage space. Instead I chose the refillable gas bottle approach in the early 2000s when it became apparent that all our motorcaravanning would be outside the UK and having a refillable bottle guarded against the possibility of running out of gas while abroad.

[weldted]

Might be worth giving Tom Donovan 01271 863066 he fitted mine is a gas it agent and very knowledgeable.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

In his original posting Freddie said that he had been told by one firm that it was practicable for a 50-litre LPG tank to be retro-fitted to a 2020 Elddis Encore 285, and told by another firm that a 25-litre tank could be retro-fitted (and presumably that a larger-capacity tank could not?)

 

Either the first firm’s statement was correct or it was wrong. But realistically - unless a O&AL forum member owning that motorhome model and with LPG-tank installation expertise can provide practical feed-back about fitting the bigger tank - all the advice given above will have been the best guess type.

 

This link is to a list of 2007-2019 Elddis motorhomes that Autogas 2000 Leisure had fitted with a LPG tank.

 

https://www.autogasshop.co.uk/elddis-motorhomes-134-c.asp

 

Auto-Sleepers fits 25-litre tanks as standard to their recent coachbuilt models and the Autogas 2000 Leisure website says "Later vans in the Autosleeper range come factory fitted with small gas tanks and we have found alternative size increases with limited payload loss...” But I’d expect any reputable firm that hasn’t fitted a largish LPG tank to an Encore 285 to want to inspect that vehicle to see what would be involved and not just offer a simple “Yes it would be OK” off-the-cuff confirmation.

 

It’s really up to Freddie to follow this up with the firms that have advised him. After all, he’s the one who wants a 40-50 litre tank and would be forking out a substantial amount of money to get it.

[paul2]

Gasit kits for fiat ducato only go up to 25 litres for euro 6 vehicles but higher for euro 4 & 5 vehicles

Paul

[Derek Uzzell]

Presumably this is due to the presence of an AdBlue tank on Euro 6 Ducatos...

[weldted]

Our Burstner is Euro 6 (2019) there was room for a 30 litre tank in between the chassis ladders frame but they were out of stock and on back order so we went with the 25 litre one as we were going away.

[freddie]

Sorry for the delay

 

But I have now found the answers

(1) The company that said a 50 tank will fit are wrong

They say that sell the tank on no return lpg store

 

(2) The fact that Elddis say 2 x 10 kg is also wrong

These will not fit

 

The door is a side on door not upright

If it was upright then there would be no problem

But as on the 185 and 285 the door is side ways that is the problem

 

(3) the tank has to be 200 diamiter or it will not allow clearance

 

Thanks to all that tried to help

[freddie]

euro 4/5 are on the old chassis that are higher hence the difference

[Derek Uzzell]

To the best of my knowledge all Fiat Ducato ‘light’ (3500kg) wider-rear-track 'camping-car' chassis since the X250 range began to be marketed in mid-2006 would have the same ground cjearance on a like-for-like basis. The only relevant difference came when Fiat made 16”-diameter wheels and bigger tyres a factory option in mid-2014 (when X290 models began to be built) which would result in a bit more ground clearance.

[Derek Uzzell]

freddie - 2021-03-05 3:34 PM

 

(2) The fact that Elddis say 2 x 10 kg is also wrong

These will not fit

I can’t say I’m surprised that 10kg gas bottles won’t fit into an Encore’s gas locker as (as the attached photo shows and you’ve highlighted) the hinge-down locker door at the vehicle’s rear is a lot wider than it is tall.

 

There’s a 2015 Elddis motorhome brochure on line and this indicated that 2 x 7kg bottles could be carried in the locker of the cheaper models, but details of the Encore range stated that the locker could hold 2 x 10kg bottles. It may well be the case that Encore models could never carry the 10kg bottles and Elddis brochures have perpetuated that myth.

 

My first motorhome was a 1996-built Herald Templar. Its gas locker’s interior could have held a single large 13kg bottle, but the width of the locker door was such that only a UK-size 6kg bottle could (just) pass through it. This was OK for UK motorcaravanning as the locker could hold 2 x 6kg bottles, but very restrictive when travelling abroad. There was no compelling need to have such a narrow door and I eventually replaced it with a wider one. Then I opted for a UK-size user-refillable bottle that meant that replacing the door had been unnecessary...

[freddie]

Hi

It is amazing that the people on here and on the Ellddis Face book group all know that this van will only take anything larger than a 6 kg x 2

The Elddis tecnical team think it is just my van that will not take 2 x 10 kg.

 

They want me to take it to a dealer to get the gas locker measured..

 

On the https://m.facebook.com/groups/1517934578501521/permalink/2513602458934723/

 

This Face book group member Jon Ayres ( I think that is his name )

Has just completed and put because he is fed up

of people wanting to fit the size advertised by Elddis.

 

Has taken the bottom out of the gas locker

Then installed 2 x 11 Gasit refiable bottles

Put the floor back backed up by 70

angle iron

on four sides

This is the only way that any one can think of that works on these Elddis Encore 285

It must be the same for the other Encors

Except the 275 This ha a upright door.

 

Hope this is of use to other Elddis owners

with Aide heating

6 kg lasts one weekend approx

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Although the Encore 275 model has an upright gas-locker door (image attached below) the door still looks pretty narrow and the locker’s internal volume would still need to be quite large to accommodate 2 x 10kg canisters. (There is an online photo of the interior of a 275’s locker and the gas canister being used appears to be a UK 6kg propane container.) The only UK 10kg gas bottle I’m aware of is the Flogas Gaslight cylinder and that has a diameter of 305mm, not much smaller than a large Calor 13kg propane canister. A GAS IT 11kg refiillable bottle is said to have a 304mm diameter, so if two of those containers can be installed in a 285’s locker once the locker’s floor has been removed/replaced, there should be room for two 10kg Flogas Gaslight bottles (except, of course, they could not be fitted/removed through the locker’s door!)

 

The Elddis Motorhome Owners Facebook group is ‘private’ so to view your llnk one would need to join the group.

 

Odd that Elddis has been perpetuating this myth when Encore owners have become aware that 2 x 10kg bottles cannot be accommodated.

 

This 2018 Caravan & Motothome Club discussion

 

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/club-together/discussions/welcome-hobby-talk/introductions/elddis-accordo-120/?p=2

 

about the gas-bottle carrying capability of an Elddis Accordo 120 (that seems to have the same size ‘vertical’ gas-locker door as an Encore 275) might be of interest.

[weldted]

Again ours was a aspire 255 but it would on just fit two. 7kg bottles. When it had to go back to the dealers for repairs to the locker as there was a recall as to the possibility of the bottles falling through the bottom of the locker (2013) I was told one of the questions asked was why such small bottles and it was beacause of the very small payload to keep it under 3500kg.

[Derek Uzzell]

The simple fact is that motorhomes of the size and specification of the larger Aspire and Encore models should never be marketed at 3500kg MAM as their realistic usable payload at that weight-maximum will be too low for the vehicle to be operated legally.

 

In this 2017 forum discussion you mentioned that Elddis used to offer a 'free' SVTech upgrade from 3500kg to 3700kg, but even the extra 200kg might not be enough for some owners.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Alko-Air-Suspension/47787/

[weldted]

When we bought our Aspire 255 new in 2012 it came with the (free) offer of a 200 kg payload upgrade, this took it from 240 kg payload to 440 kg. What you were supposed to carry with a 240 kg payload, i would think that any of these rated at that will be overloaded Fromm the word go. We struggled to keep ours legal at 3700 kg and ended up fitting semi air and larger tyres. Saying the the van has plenty of storage and served us well for 7 years. Given that our 2019 Burstner at 4000kg has plenty of payload but nowhere realistically to store anything inside the van.

[Derek Uzzell]

Surely your last sentence has got to be an exaggeration?

 

The Burstner Ixeo I 736 is much the same length as your Aspire 255 was and, although it's interior storage may be less (Weren't the Aspire's water tanks external, slung under the chassis?) there's still got to be a good deal of internal storage. Besides which the Burstner has a voluminous rear garage. I know which I'd have if I had a C1 licence and it very definitely would not be the Elddis.

 

(Advert for 2019 736 on this link.)

 

https://www.southdownsmotorhomecentre.co.uk/2019-burstner-ixeo-i-736-fiat-150-automatic-a-class-motorhome-n101444.html

[weldted]

What I mean by inside the van, is what you can access without having to go outside. Under the aspires two front settee’s is a large storage area, under the Burstners one side is the water tank, the other the Truma heater. There are two sliding draws under the gas hob which if you. Put the pots and pans there is little room for much food. The Aspire has plenty for both pots pans and food. Aspire full cooker three gas and one electric hob separate grill and an oven you can cook a good size roast in. The Burstner three rings but not enough room to put three standard size Susan’s on. An over that struggles to fit a large pizza in. Burstner has two lift for access boxes in the floor and a small cupboard underneath the front of the rear fixed bed. Two small wardrobes one either side of the bed that foul the blinds when you open them. The bed slides forward so you can lie flat for sleeping but its difficult to get around the end if you have to go to the loo in. The night. To be honest given the cost of our one if I had the time again I. Would not have bought it. It has a very hard ride bits are constantly working loose not the build quality I had expected.

[Derek Uzzell]

On the other hand the Burstner is properly winterised (fresh water tank and plumbing protected against cold weather) plus a large gas-locker and rear garage and plenty of payload - so fitting a LPG tank and uprating its chassis should not be necessary.