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Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
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userAndrew MMM
Posted: 24 April 2014 11:13 AM
Subject: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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In case you missed this:

After months of speculation, the new-look Fiat Ducato has finally been revealed, hot on the heels of the new Peugeot Boxer and Citroën Relay.

Read all about it HERE

What do think of it/them?

userstarvin marvin
Posted: 24 April 2014 12:08 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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Fiat: generally good engines, poor gearboxes, cheap electrical components. (This opinion applies to both vans and cars) all makes for higher maintenance costs.

I've never owned a Citroen or Peugeot.
usereuroserv
Posted: 24 April 2014 12:49 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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It's a bit more dramatic than I was expecting; I think it looks good. There is a lot of Peugeot DNA in the bonnet shape but it looks fine as a Fiat too.

Will they have sorted out the crappy windscreen scuttle that leaks into the engine bay?
Doubt it.
userAliB
Posted: 24 April 2014 1:18 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 


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No problems with the looks. Although I have never thought a van or a motorhome looks "good" as in the way some cars can elicit an emotion. Vans are utilitarian by their nature and will never be classed as beautiful.

The fuel performance figures seem impressive - if only something near to that were possible on a motorhome. Well one can but wish.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 24 April 2014 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 


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Fuller details (and photos) can be found here

http://jomomag.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/first-psa-group-launch-their-versions.html#gpluscomments

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/news/fiat-ducato-facelift-2014-aufgefrischter-transporter-8313358.html

http://www.tf1.fr/auto-moto/photo/le-fourgon-citroen-jumper-2014-en-photos-officielles-8404483.html#photo/1

The modifications to the frontal appearance pretty much match the guesses made from 2013 spy-photos of prototypes. There are also minor changes to the rear-light treatment. When I spoke to a motorhome dealer recently I was given the impression that the Ducato changes would include a move to Euro 6 motors, but I now see that September 2015 is the change date, not 2014.

Although nothing to do with the 2014 facelift, the 3rd Ducato photo on the following webpage shows an interesting lift-up cantilevered tailgate that's presumably a 'bespoke' adaptation.

http://www.carsbase.com/photo/Fiat_Ducato_model_5272.html

userJudgeMental
Posted: 24 April 2014 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 


Jeez...it was pig ugly to start with!

usergoldi
Posted: 24 April 2014 2:06 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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Afternoon folks,
This is a nice looking facelifted van and anatural progreson of design
The lift uptailgate is from Mussa & Graziano coachbuilders of turin which is very mpressive.

norm

usereuroserv
Posted: 24 April 2014 2:21 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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As pretty and useful as that tailgate option is for loading luggage; it can no longer function as an emergency exit so i expect rear passengers are issued with toffee hammers to break the glass if required.
usergrahamw
Posted: 24 April 2014 2:35 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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Interesting that the bonnet now appears to run the full length of the scuttle which hopefully gives them the opportunity to sort the scuttle issue. Lowering the headlights also should make it easier to amend the scuttle design. I live in hope. It also looks as though the vertical edge at either side of the bonnet is now gone where water could simply run off into the engine bay. I would imagine that van converters would be very pleased if the restyled rear light clusters now allowed access to the bulbs from the outside without having to make provision for access from the inside.
usersnowie
Posted: 24 April 2014 5:22 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 


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AliB - 2014-04-24 1:18 PM

No problems with the looks. Although I have never thought a van or a motorhome looks "good" as in the way some cars can elicit an emotion. Vans are utilitarian by their nature and will never be classed as beautiful.

The fuel performance figures seem impressive - if only something near to that were possible on a motorhome. Well one can but wish.


Have to disagree; our van stirs my emotions, just looking at it starts the endorphins flowing,and whenever I get into it; "holidays" have that effect.
Even a brick can be beautiful; and I prefer the current model; new one's front end is too fussy.
And why would a PVC not achieve the fuel performance figures? 44mpg would be pretty good, I've generally achieved 30-32mpg and been satisfied! Maybe I need to take some lead out of my shoe? (or be more accurate with my mpg checking)
regards
alan b



Edited by snowie 2014-04-24 5:24 PM
userChausson le mor
Posted: 24 April 2014 6:26 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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Hmm looks just like my Renault Master 3!
Have they clone'd it!!!!!
userAliB
Posted: 25 April 2014 4:42 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 


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snowie - 2014-04-24 5:22 PM

Have to disagree; our van stirs my emotions, just looking at it starts the endorphins flowing,and whenever I get into it; "holidays" have that effect.


But that's the excitement of where you are going not the form factor of the method of transport.


Even a brick can be beautiful;

I'll try that on the wife then " Darling you have a face like a brick"

usersnowie
Posted: 25 April 2014 5:02 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 


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AliB - 2014-04-25 4:42 PM

But that's the excitement of where you are going not the form factor of the method of transport.


The van is the embodiment of that excitement, and would not be as intense if it didn't "look the part"


I'll try that on the wife then " Darling you have a face like a brick"

I don't think that's a good idea!
alan b
userKeith T
Posted: 27 April 2014 10:54 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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Still looks identifiable as FIAT, some slight improvement in the lines maybe, but I think it still is the best looking van and Motorhome front on the market, although other than some new Ford Vans I have not seen any MH bodied- ones as yet. In my view the new Renaults and Mercs are simply ugly! Lets hope the 'workings' of the new FIAT won't produce and nasties!
usereuroserv
Posted: 2 May 2014 12:39 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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Hi all;

Had a good look at the Citroen version at the Commercial Vehicle Show yesterday and was pretty impressed.
The daft panels above and below the headlamps have gone and you can get to the rear of the lamps much more easily to change bulbs. Best of all though is that the windscreen scuttle is completely changed and from what I can see it should be much better at keeping water from dripping onto the engine. It remains to be seen how effective it is; but it looks very promising.
The rear lamps on the panel van have changed for what i think is a less attractive design but it's ok.

Compared to the new Transit, which I find to be vomit inducingly ugly and mildly refreshed grilles on the Renault Master; The new Peugeot, Citroen and Fiat vans are very attractive indeed.

From an equipment point of view, the Fiat Ducato's will now all have the EBD, ABS etc etc kit that has been fitted to Euro 5 vans since 2012 but they will all get hill holder as standard. We always order Air con, fog lights, bluetooth (now standard) and a few other bits and pieces but now all Ducat's can be ordered with a 'Tecno' pack that includes everything we normally want plus the 5" touchscreeen with DAB radio and TOM TOM navigation all built in for less than what we used to pay! I definitely recommend anyone that can order the spec that they want to add this pack if they can.

I can't tell for sure yet about the chassis cabs but all of the vans will now have a composite (plastic, to you and me) rear leaf spring instead of steel. These save a lot of weight and while it sounds scary; Renault did this on the master in 1999 without any problems, so I am welcoming the increase in payload that this will bring.

I am pretty excited about some of these changes and think the vehicle will be a worthy progression of the vehicle.
Whether the new 4250KG GVW version is really up to the job remains to be seen, particularly when people start upping this to 5000KG!

For them, there is the imminent arrival of the ALL new Iveco Daily. They have altered the suspension in order to reduce the loading heights of the vans which should yield benefits for conversions. The wheelbases have all been changed too to get rid of some of the insane rear over-hangs that they had and the bodies of the vans are squarer with resulting increases in volume. The biggest Ducato panel van is 17m3 with the extra high roof. The biggest Daily will be 20m3!!
That's got you thinking, hasn't it?

This is the least ugly Daily that there has ever been too. The atrocious rear door hinges have been binned as well. I actually see me ordering some for our fleet and the last time we did that was 2006, and swore never to again by 2009!

Full details and ordering info has arrived at Fiat dealers and Iveco data will be available in the next few weeks.

Nick
userarthur49
Posted: 2 May 2014 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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Thank you Nick. I'm not in the market for a new van at the moment but i do appreciate you taking the time to record your impressions of the new vans
Arthur
usermikebeaches
Posted: 24 May 2014 7:48 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 


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Yes, belated thanks to Nick, Andrew and Derek for the interesting information about the new facelifted Ducato!

Mike
userbobalobs
Posted: 17 June 2014 9:49 AM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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The C&CC magazine talks of the new model having a "reinforced clutch" whilst MMM talks of "enhancements to the lifespan" of the clutch. It is perhaps early days but does Nick or anyone know what has been done and whether in due course it will be available for retrofit to earlier X250's. Thanks.
usergrahamw
Posted: 17 June 2014 10:22 AM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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Details seem thin on the ground at the moment. Only comment I can find from Fiat relating to the clutch is this:

'Clutch durability has also been improved by adopting a new hydraulic actuator on 2.3 MultiJet II engines and by reducing the transmission ratio on the 3.0 MultiJet engine in order to minimise the forces transmitted to the clutch and increase performance, particularly when laden or driving in demanding driving conditions'.

The most detailed press release from Fiat that I can find is:

http://www.fiatprofessionalpress.co.uk/press/article/5319
userbobalobs
Posted: 17 June 2014 5:42 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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Thanks for that. Is a "hydraulic clutch actuator" the same as a clutch slave cylinder? If so in the old days I would have thought a retrofit a possibility but nowadays all sorts of difficulties seem to arrive.
usereuroserv
Posted: 20 June 2014 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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I won't know until i get a parts disc that includes the new vehicles.

If it IS a modified part, it might be retro-fittable but you would need to remove the gearbox to do so as this is a concentric slave cylinder.
userCorky 8
Posted: 21 June 2014 5:27 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 


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I await the first owners report to see if fiat have learned any lessons from their past Mistakes, But I personally would never want to own one, not even if it was given Free. the "New" Model does not look that much different from older models, IMO.

usereuroserv
Posted: 24 June 2014 11:55 AM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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Corky 8 - 2014-06-21 5:27 PM

I await the first owners report to see if fiat have learned any lessons from their past Mistakes, But I personally would never want to own one, not even if it was given Free. the "New" Model does not look that much different from older models, IMO.




Not even for free? Really?

I have just been changing a fuel filter on a Merc 2.2
What a faff! This has to be the most insanely complicated procedure ever, and with no less than 3 connections that have flimsy plastic bits to break off. Flimsy plastic and jubilee clips. Nonsense.
usergrahamw
Posted: 24 June 2014 4:53 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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Corky 8 - 2014-06-21 5:27 PM

the "New" Model does not look that much different from older models, IMO.



That would appear eminently sensible to me. With Fiat supplying the greatest number of vehicles of all manufacturers for conversion into motorhomes any changes to the shape would have major implications and hence costs for converters. They appear to have concentrated on improving the function of the vehicle rather than trying to catch the eye with a new shape which I think a lot of us welcome. As with all vehicles there is always scope for improvement.
userRogerC
Posted: 24 June 2014 7:01 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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...........Looks like a bit of a 'Joke' to me........
userCorky 8
Posted: 26 June 2014 9:02 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 


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euroserv - 2014-06-24 11:55 AM
Corky 8 - 2014-06-21 5:27 PM

I await the first owners report to see if fiat have learned any lessons from their past Mistakes, But I personally would never want to own one, not even if it was given Free. the "New" Model does not look that much different from older models, IMO.

Not even for free? Really?I have just been changing a fuel filter on a Merc 2.2What a faff! This has to be the most insanely complicated procedure ever, and with no less than 3 connections that have flimsy plastic bits to break off. Flimsy plastic and jubilee clips. Nonsense.

" Honest "NOT EVEN for free Nick, I,m fortunate enough to be able to allow the Main dealer to Faff about with mine and being an A series it must be even more difficult due to the shortage of room under the small bonnet, but never a complaint from the Chap who services it even gave me sound advice about not fitting a chip, Plus the coffee they serve from the free drinks Machine takes some beating. Each to their own eh.

usergrahamw
Posted: 27 June 2014 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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Corky 8 - 2014-06-26 9:02 PM

Honest "NOT EVEN for free Nick,


When Fiat turn up with your hypothetical free new van please when you decline it will you tell them that you know a guy who wouldn't. Hopefully I've got in at the front of a very long long long................. queue!
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 27 June 2014 9:26 AM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 


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bobalobs - 2014-06-17 5:42 PM

Thanks for that. Is a "hydraulic clutch actuator" the same as a clutch slave cylinder? If so in the old days I would have thought a retrofit a possibility but nowadays all sorts of difficulties seem to arrive.


The "hydraulic clutch actuator" is indeed a "clutch slave cylinder".

There's a fair amount of details/photos of the latest 'facelifted' model (apparently officially given the code reference "X290" to distinguish it from its X250 predecessor) in current French motorhome magazines.

Much of this repeats information provided in Fiat press releases (as mentioned by grahamw above), but an "Esprit Camping-Car" article includes small photos of excerpts from what's clearly a glossy Fiat Professional English-language advertising brochure. One of these photos covers "Clutch Durabiliity", shows a drawing of the clutch, and mentions a "NEW SLAVE CYLINDER - 2.3 Multijet", "GEAR RATIO REDUCTION - 3.0 Multijet" and "SPECIFIC MOTORHOME RATIO SET-UP - All engines".

Where coachbuilt motorhomes are concerned, there's also a brochure excerpt photo that mentions a 20kg weight-saving for the 'camping-car' chassis (for "OPTIMISED PAYLOAD PERFORMANCE") plus a 15kg saving if composite rear springs are specified. This should help to improve the woefully low payload of many large 3500kg MTPLM coachbuilt models now being marketed, but will be offset (to some degree) next year when the Euro 6 emissions standard is imposed for light commercial vehicles.

(I don't think this brochure is available on-line yet. Anyway, I can't find it!)

One interesting statement made in the "Esprit Camping-Car" piece is that the Continental "VancoCamper" tyres that have been original equipment for X250 coachbuilts for some while will be dropped for the X290. Instead Michelin's "Agilis Camping" tyres (Green-X-marked to indicate low rolling-resistance) will be factory-fitted.



userbobalobs
Posted: 28 June 2014 12:29 PM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 
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Thanks for the info Derek. Now I need to find out what a "concentric clutch cylinder " is as referred to by Nick. The classic cars I play with have cylindrical clutch slave cylinders mounted externally on the bellhousing. Things were simpler in those days!
userKeithl
Posted: 30 June 2014 8:20 AM
Subject: RE: Facelifted Fiat Ducato breaks cover
 


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bobalobs - 2014-06-28 12:29 PM

Thanks for the info Derek. Now I need to find out what a "concentric clutch cylinder " is as referred to by Nick. The classic cars I play with have cylindrical clutch slave cylinders mounted externally on the bellhousing. Things were simpler in those days!


Bobalobs,

Have a look at the small picture bottom left of this Link. The concentric slave cylinder is circled '1'. It replaces the external slave cylinder and release arm.
A great idea but a PITA for service!

Keith.
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