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Fiat Ducato Speedo failure


pyrie

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Not swimwear related.

 

Prior to my vans mot and service I was aware the engine temp sensor had stopped reporting, I mentioned this to the garage when booking in.

On my drive there, the speedometer and rev counter was not working!

I mentioned this on arrival.

The van passed its MOT and had its service, but they could do nothing about the Speedo etc. Mentioned an auto electrics company. I've not contacted one yet.

Has anyone else experience of this and any recommendations?

I live in the north west near Preston.

2008 Ducato auto trail and 3.0 engine

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If the problem is just with the instrument cluster, contact this company, they should be able to advise and fix the fault.

https://cartronix.co.uk/product/fiat-ducato-speedometer-repair-dashboard-instrument-cluster-panel-failing/

On some vehicles of this age there are problems with the earth strap from gearbox to chassis and wiring loom/connectors in the engine bay. These faults cause all sorts of strange problems.

 

Provided the fault is within the instrument cluster cartronics should be able to fix it.

 

Mike

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The extra earth strap is worth doing anyway, and may solve the problem. Fiver for a 30" earth strap, find a bolt on the chassis under the bonnet, one on the engine nearby.

Undo. Connect. Do up.

Five minutes and if it doesn't solve the problem, at least you've ticked that off as the problem, and now have a good earth.

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Hi, sorry for being dim on vehicle parts, could you point me to an earth strap part you refer to? eBay or a vehicle parts website. Thanks

I briefly searched earth strap and I see other references on here and another motorhome forum, talking copper and braided. So a link to a part would be appreciated.

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pyrie - 2019-06-27 1:39 PM

 

Not swimwear related.

 

Prior to my vans mot and service I was aware the engine temp sensor had stopped reporting, I mentioned this to the garage when booking in.

On my drive there, the speedometer and rev counter was not working!

I mentioned this on arrival.

The van passed its MOT and had its service, but they could do nothing about the Speedo etc. Mentioned an auto electrics company. I've not contacted one yet.

Has anyone else experience of this and any recommendations?

I live in the north west near Preston.

2008 Ducato auto trail and 3.0 engine

 

How did your van pass the MOT without a working Speedo?

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Billggski - 2019-06-27 5:53 PM

 

The extra earth strap is worth doing anyway, and may solve the problem. Fiver for a 30" earth strap, find a bolt on the chassis under the bonnet, one on the engine nearby.

Undo. Connect. Do up.

 

Engine/gear box. Does it matter which and where?

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laimeduck - 2019-06-27 7:01 PM

 

How did your van pass the MOT without a working Speedo?

 

Simple, because the tester does not have to test it!

 

From the MOT testers manual,

 

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-7-Other-equipment.html#section_7.8

 

"7.8 Speedometer

You must check the speedometer of vehicles first used on or after 1 October 1937 with a maximum speed above 25mph. You do not need to check Class 3 vehicles.

 

If a road test is needed, for example to carry out a decelerometer test, you must check whilst driving that the speedometer is working.

 

If a road test is not necessary, you should only reject a speedometer if it’s clearly not working."

 

So unless the tester spots it is not actually working you will get a pass!

 

Keith.

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Before working on the instrument cluster give cartronics a call and describe the symptoms, they will confirm or otherwise that there is a cluster fault.

Removing the cluster. Fiat recommend the battery is disconnected at the negative terminal before any electrical work is undertaken. If the cluster is removed with the battery connected do not switch on the ignition until the cluster is back in place.

 

There are two Torx screws at the front of the binnacle, one on each side near the top, remove these and pull the cover up and forward. This gives access to 2 Torx screws holding the cluster, remove these and unplug the loom, lift out.

 

It could be that the van electronic communication system has become confused and a reconfigure with a diagnostic system would sort things out. A Fiat dealer will have the equipment to do this or alternately indicate the problem area.

 

Mike

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Keithl - 2019-06-27 7:58 PM

 

laimeduck - 2019-06-27 7:01 PM

 

How did your van pass the MOT without a working Speedo?

 

Simple, because the tester does not have to test it!

 

From the MOT testers manual,

 

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-7-Other-equipment.html#section_7.8

 

"7.8 Speedometer

You must check the speedometer of vehicles first used on or after 1 October 1937 with a maximum speed above 25mph. You do not need to check Class 3 vehicles.

 

If a road test is needed, for example to carry out a decelerometer test, you must check whilst driving that the speedometer is working.

 

If a road test is not necessary, you should only reject a speedometer if it’s clearly not working."

 

So unless the tester spots it is not actually working you will get a pass!

 

Keith.

 

What a load of cock!

 

And yet they can fail my van because the indicator bulbs "were not orange enough". Is it me?

 

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laimeduck - 2019-06-27 10:57 PM

 

Keithl - 2019-06-27 7:58 PM

 

laimeduck - 2019-06-27 7:01 PM

 

How did your van pass the MOT without a working Speedo?

 

Simple, because the tester does not have to test it!

 

From the MOT testers manual,

 

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-7-Other-equipment.html#section_7.8

 

"7.8 Speedometer

You must check the speedometer of vehicles first used on or after 1 October 1937 with a maximum speed above 25mph. You do not need to check Class 3 vehicles.

 

If a road test is needed, for example to carry out a decelerometer test, you must check whilst driving that the speedometer is working.

 

If a road test is not necessary, you should only reject a speedometer if it’s clearly not working."

 

So unless the tester spots it is not actually working you will get a pass!

 

Keith.

 

What a load of cock!

 

And yet they can fail my van because the indicator bulbs "were not orange enough". Is it me?

 

Section 7.8 states that a MOT inspector must check that a speedometer is working. This requirement should be plain from 7.8's Defect section where a “not working” speedometer is categorised as a major defect.

 

The method used by the MOT inspector to confirm that the speedometer is working is not advised, but even when a road test is not performed, whether or not a speedometer is working should become obvious at some stage during the test process. Even if the MOT inspector might have mentally assumed that the motorhome’s speedometer was in working order (after all, a non-working speedometer must be fairly rare) one would have thought that the ‘dead’ rev-counter would have been noticed and have prompted the inspector to check the adjacent speedometer.

 

(Pyrie warned the garage that the motorhome’s speedometer was not working, but presumably this information was not relayed to the MOT testing station. If the MOT inspector had been made aware of the defect, the motorhome should have failed the test.)

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My speedometer failed while I was away. Called AA for directions to a garage. Not interested and told to use my phone to get home. Fortunately I have a very basic sat nav which gave speed. This appears to be a common fault and is a failure of the sender at the gearbox which is a cheap and easy fix. My van is a 2004 with 2 lt JTD engine.
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An update as I've been to check on the van in its pound...

 

The clock, mileage display, oil check , fuel guage ... Work. Various warnings lights appear and go off as normal.

It's only the Speedo, temp and rev that fail to respond.

I will get an earth strap ordered and connect up next weekend, from engine mount to chassis under the bonnet.

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In the link Keith provided above

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Ducato-starter-battery/48753/

 

Nick Fisher mentions (euroserv posting of 21 February 2018 4:41 PM) testing that an existing earth-strap might be problematical by using a good quality jump-cable.

 

Replacing the existing earth-strap with a new one - or adding a supplementary strap - certainly won’t do any harm, but if you can lay your hands on a suitable jump-cable and check whether the earth-strap might be to blame for the speedometer/tachometer fault, it would be worth doing.

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As Derek says, replacing the earth strap won't do any harm.

 

There is no commonality between the three gauges. The speedometer obtains its signal from the ABS control module. The rev counter and temperature gauges obtain their signals from the engine ECU. However all three are I believe routed through the body computer to the instrument cluster.

 

You really need diagnostic software such as MultiEcuScan to help narrow things down. Fistly, this would allow you to check for any errors reported by the various ECUs relevant to your problem. Secondly, it would allow you to actuate the gauges and senders to test if they are operating and whether signals are getting through. You can for instance, cause the speedometer and rev counters to complete full gauge sweeps through the software which would confirm whether the gauges are working and receiving signals from the body computer. You can also plot the inputs from the senders which may also establish whether the relevant signals are being generated.

 

One other thing you could try. Remove the cover from the vehicle battery compartment and have relevant tools to hand inside the cab to disconnect the battery - but don't disconnect it yet. Switch on the ignition for a few seconds with all doors shut, then switch it off and remove the key and any connected diagnostic equipment. Open and close the driver's door and wait at least 3 minutes. Do not operate any electrical equipment or switches during that time. Then, from inside the cab and without opening any doors, disconnect both battery terminals (negative first) and leave disconnected for around 5 minutes. Reconnect the battery (negative last) then without opening any doors wait at least 10 seconds and switch on the headlights. Switch on the ignition and start the vehicle. Switch off, open and close the driver's door and wait another 3 minutes. This will reset the body computer and may bring the missing functions back to life if it had become confused due to a power glitch or similar.

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  • 2 weeks later...
pyrie - 2019-07-15 11:24 AM

 

Earth strap added exactly as per the following advice and photo at http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/earth-strap-problems.php

Scratched paint off underneath the chassis screw to ensure good connection. Fastened up bolts, started engine... Same issue. :-(

 

So, have you tried the Body Computer reset I described above?

 

If that makes no difference, you are looking at diagnostic/actuation/wiring tests to pin down the source of the problem.

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tonyishuk - 2019-07-15 5:47 PM

 

If the worst comes to the worst, you could use a bicycle speedo with the magnet glue to a wheel.

 

( A method used by some Kit car builders)

 

Rgds

 

All that would do is address the non-working speedometer fault, but (as has been mentioned above) the vehicle’s rev-counter and temperature gauge are also ‘dead’.

 

Given the symptoms, adding an additional earth strap was always going to be an inexpensive, but a hopeful rather than probably successful, approach.

 

Deneb has explained how to reset the vehicle’s body computer and this is the obvious next step to take.

 

If that procedure does not clear the fault, then (as Deneb has said) more sophisticated testing will be needed, Alternatively, the not-unreasonable assumption is made that the problem lies with the instrument-cluster itself and a specialist repairer is contacted. (mikefitz’s posting of 27 June 2019 2:19 PM above).

 

Removing a 2008 Ducato’s instrument-cluster is (literally) a 5-minute task as described here

 

https://www.lockwoodinternational.co.uk/media/wysiwyg/instructions/Fiat/C120_C124_Etc_Fiat_Ducato.pdf

 

 

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