Fiat and FIAT problems.

[Noody]

Am I being unfair to Fiat ?

 

I only just sorted out an electrical,problem and blow me if the steering lock barrel goes kaput, I did some search and Fiat come up a lot about immobilized problems. This wasn't (As far as I'm aware) an immobilized problem, rather the bits inside the lock barrel becoming worn and breaking. Symptoms were starting problems for years and i never thought it was the starter motor.

 

When the garage told me the cost of the repair I felt feint, not good for a man of my years.

 

I have been driving for a long time and I have owned a few low-life cars and vans but never had the problems I've had with this and another Fiat.

 

New front wheel bearings at 22,000 miles. New steering rack at 28.000 miles, a new sump at 14.000 miles down to zero underneath protection. The original exhaust has been replaced though lasted 12 years and 34.000 miles. I think that is ok ?

 

Right now I have a new front subframe in my workshop that I painted because the one on the van looks bad but still hanging on, it's not as if Fiat parts are reasonable. They are very expensive.

 

Anyone want to share my grief.?

[Tracker]

You are not alone - motoring is expensive whatever way you do it and although you can theoretically gain reliability by buying nearly new the downside is that you will probably spend much more in depreciation than repairs would cost?

 

We have relatives who are great Skoda fans and they are good cars and the dealers seem more receptive and friendly than other VW group dealers but once out of warranty they too can be very expensive to repair - and they do seem to be made to last three years before becoming a pain in the wallet?

 

So on balance, until we get Japanese base vehicles, yours is probably the least expensive way and you just have to accept there will be good weeks and bad weeks!!

 

Never forget the number of weeks that it gives you no grief at all as long as you don't use it!!

[mgnbuk]

"until we get Japanese base vehicles"

 

Heaven forbid. I had one Toyota & would not have another, as getting warranty work accepted within the warranty period was an uphill battle & out of warranty the parts prices were eye-watering (quoted £500 to replace an Avensis front wheel bearing at 80,000 miles !).

 

Hyundai have a Transit-sized van being made in Turkey (like the Transits) now or very soon which may be a viable alternative to the current base vehicle suppliers.

 

I had a couple of warranty issues on my X250 sorted under warranty & it was not too arduous a process - easier than getting the (minor) Roller Team issues sorted, particularly as the supplying RT dealer went out of business & appeared to take my warranty with him !

 

"12 years and 34.000 miles"

 

Problems exaggerated by lack of use, maybe ? These are, at heart, commercial vehicles designed to do a lot of miles a year over a relatively short number of years - how many 12 year old commercial vans do you see on the roads ? My first van was an '03 CI Carioca 22, bought with 28,000 showing at 6 1/2 years old & sold 2 1/2 years later with 43,000 showing. Still on original wheel bearings, steering rack & with a rust-free sump (the van came with a full set of service receipts), with no parts other than oil & filters required in my ownership and 2 Mots passed with no work required. Maybe I was lucky, or you have been unlucky ?

 

Nigel B

[Robbo]

Yes, Fiat electrics aren't great. I broke down at a busy junction in the middle of Toulouse with a 1987 Fiat Ducato because of a problem with the ignition key barrel. This was before immobilisers were standard kit.

 

The breakdown service isolated the wiring to the ignition barrel at a connector plug behind the steering panel shroud. A bent copper strip was inserted into the other end of the connector plug to short out the connection and bingo, the engine started. We used this until we returned to UK.

 

Bought a new ignition barrel, transferred the old key barrel to the new unit and had no further problems. Don't think the new barrel was too expensive, probably less than £20.

 

Might be different now with the immobiliser circuitry. It might be worth removing the unit and checking if it's just a poor connection. Best of luck.

[Noody]

Robbo - 2016-11-20 2:22 PM

 

 

Might be different now with the immobiliser circuitry. It might be worth removing the unit and checking if it's just a poor connection. Best of luck.

 

I called my garage for help, they took the barrel if with a hammer and chisel and there is a solution for about £70 but I'm sure about the details yet. A Fiat replacement meant replacing the whole steering column and £500 was bandied-about.

 

I bought a new Fiat 500, because it was cute (She said) all within three years a rotten sump, door handle fell off, gear shift cables replaced, gear shift gaiter fell,off, stop-start never worked properly and none of that work was dealt with under warranty because of dealer inability.

 

I've had ford for years with no such problems and we had VW with no problems, I took some of my Fiat issues to the Fiat forum. oh-my-goodness, they have Fiat fan boys who won't hear anything bad about Fiat.

 

Yes, I love my van. It's a burden because I look after anything I own though as you point out you either pay in depreciation losses or you pay via repairs and replaceme. The good news in the case of my van is they seem to hold their price.

 

What I don't understand is people buying a new van with the undersides just steel with a lick of paint rather than any underselling, the motorhome part is mostly galvanised. I'm now looking at replacing things before they fail, when the steering rack went it was horrible.

 

Now she's attracted to an Arbarth, I said, "It's a bloody Fiat 500"

 

Thank you for sharing, I need the counselling right now. Fortunately the van is sitting in the driveway rather than in the middle of a strange town or France or Lithuania.

[jaytee74]

ew front wheel bearings at 22,000 miles. New steering rack at 28.000 miles, a new sump at 14.000 miles down to zero underneath protection. The original exhaust has been replaced though lasted 12 years and 34.000 miles. I think that is ok ? -------- from your experience it does not breed confidence and yet i have a 1996 2.5tdi ducato with 96000 miles and have can only say both mechanicly and habitation wise everything has been reliable i do think from reading reports from other owners there has been build issues at all levels of reliability in the last fifteen years to date. with FIAT. but what do you do as all the base units seem to have problems and the more sophisticated electronics wise equates to less reliable, the ford transit is the choice for motorhome theives going from the postings of stolen motorhomes. so im afraid we are just going to learn to live with FIAT.

[Noody]

It's good to hear a positive story, I haven't even mentioned failures that are regarded as classic for a vehicle that sits around doing nothing but I don't put my motorhomevawaymforbwinter. I will drive it for an hour every two weeks or so and because of where we live it tends to be used as a day van.

 

The lack of undersealmreally bothers me though I have yet to read of owners replacing the sumpmwhich is very vulnerable and doesn't have any protection.

 

I wonder how many of you just buy new and swop,them after three years ? We couldn't afford to do that on the basis of we don't use the van enough to warrant changing to a new one regularly.

 

Regarding the front subframe, it's rusty and until recently hasn't had any waxoil, I don't know what that front sub frame does though waiting until it fails seems wrong

 

Going back to that Fiat 500 we had, the dealership warned me that there was a fault with the gearbox, it was the spring that returns the shift into the gate when you drop out of fifth. They procrastinated until it was out of warranty then refused to deal with it.

 

So, right now I still have the fog lamps not working, I'm waiting on a replacement for the lock barrel and the new subframe is painted with three coats of hammer it's and waiting to go in. Plus some welding around. The lift point.

[the general]

I thought the famous fiat chassis was rust free now ???

 

[Noody]

the general - 2016-11-21 12:40 PM

 

I thought the famous fiat chassis was rust free now ???

 

That would be good news to a lot of owners though you didn't mention when "Now" is, or was.

 

What about the Mercedes conversions, do they have more than a light coat of paint underneath. I still a a photo of the rusty sump at 2 years old. How do I post a photo on this forum ? do I need to use a hosting site ?

[starvin marvin]

That's have always been generally unreliable, they appear to be a little better, but still give cause for concern. I certainly wouldn't buy one if I had a realistic choice of conversion base vehicles. I wait with bated breath for the Japs to enter the market as they would wipe the floor with Fiat.

 

I've had your problems and more on three different Fiat bases. I just remind myself that Fiat means

 

F******* Italian Always Trouble.

[peterjl]

Hi

 

I must admit I am fiat fan. I had a small fiat car purchased in 96 to commute 30 miles each way to work, it managed that reliably for over 6 years plus my three children all used it to learn to drive then as their car in the evenings ( this included teaching my daughter to reverse by driving backwards round the local car park for over an hour one Sunday evening). It did finally expire when the gearbox made odd noises but I had my money's worth- its downside was oil, I knew it was empty if it stopped leaking!.

 

I tend to buy a car with an easily accessible main dealer, my nearest car main dealer is ford so these days I buy ford. ( my walk to fiat dealership moved).

 

I have had 5 motorhomers, 2 on ford and the last 3 on fiat. All covering about 9/10,000 miles a year on average. The secon d ford had several faults and spent more time than I liked in the local Ford main dealership. the first fiat had oil leak from gearbox plus egr problems however the last two fiats have been almost fault free ( I hope I am not jinxing that).

 

I figure all vans will have the occasional fault. Most motorhomers are on fiat soooo we hear more about fiat problems. I am just not convinced fiat is any worse than any other manufacturer.

 

Peter

[Noody]

Presumable the Fiat power unit and chassis are cheap for the converters to buy though a quality converter could easily deal with the rusty chassis problem by having the conversions under sealed.

 

Fiat electrics are a know problem, when I bought that Fiat 500 it already had history on the cables that traveled through the roof and into the back hatch. Those cable were already crunched yet the dealer said they were ok. Eventually they failed out of warranty, sound familiar ?

[StuartO]

I'm a Fiat fan too - same Fiat based MH for 11 years and reliability has been excellent apart from a serious gearbox failure within weeks of being new, which Fiat replaced quickly and without argument.  My previous MHs were nominally Peugeot (but the same Sevel factorry) and they were OK too but I had a really bad Peugeot car and so won't touch them again.

[starvin marvin]

Noody - 2016-11-21 2:12 PM

 

Presumable the Fiat power unit and chassis are cheap for the converters to buy though a quality converter could easily deal with the rusty chassis problem by having the conversions under sealed.

 

Fiat electrics are a know problem, when I bought that Fiat 500 it already had history on the cables that traveled through the roof and into the back hatch. Those cable were already crunched yet the dealer said they were ok. Eventually they failed out of warranty, sound familiar ?

 

Like you I’ve had things fail/break on Fiats that in decades of driving I've never experienced on other vehicles. In reality I'm never truly confident that something won't let go at any time.

[Noody]

It's good that we have Fiat fans amongst us though not of the caliber of the Fiat forum fan boys, or boys as they call them selves which is possibly a clue too their mentality.

 

Having Fiat fans amongst a dissatisfied group of Fiat owners must mean something other than a cosseted vehicle, what do I mean by cosseted. Right now my van is being hit by salty rain being blown down the Irish Sea then inland, its rocking on its springs. But it gets washed and waxed a lot and never sits alone all winter. During winter months intend to do any jobs I can do and it'll go into the garage for any outstanding work because they are less busy during winter.

 

It's always hooked up with heating on and a dehumidifier running, I suppose my van is cosseted though I bet some of you have your van under cover and inland is always less harsh than coastline.

 

Clearly the Fiat electrics have a problem and an example is a connector for the rear lighting that needs protection from road water and filth but doesn't. Connectors in the engine bay that get cascaded by rainwater from the windscreen then driven into the engine bay though how that would effect the steering lock and immobiliser I don't know. There is massive history for failure of these parts.

 

Cheap parts ? I don't think so to be perfectly honest. When my front wheel bearings went at a very low mileage they were found to be SKF which are the quality you would go for.

 

Fiat don't help Fiat owners by overpricing their replacement parts, usually double that of after-market parts probably sourced from the same supplier though this is probably the case with all original parts.

 

 

[Muswell]

Noody - 2016-11-22 7:01 AM

 

 

Fiat don't help Fiat owners by overpricing their replacement parts, usually double that of after-market parts probably sourced from the same supplier though this is probably the case with all original parts.

 

 

I think the problem with parts is that FIAT and their dealers have to make a profit. They have 2 sources of income: sales and servicing. The first objective is to sell the vehicle so I guess they do all they can to keep that price down and then do what they have pricewise after that.

[Noody]

Ah. I just realised.

 

In the case of Fiat some parts will have to be bought in by an independent garage via a Fiat dealer, yes ? Not all Fiat parts though, some online dealers sell Fiat OE parts at reasonable prices.

 

So in the case of those parts coming via a Fiat dealership there are quite a few businesses dipping their bread, not just Fiat of-course. Just using this as an example.

 

Worst example is the one given by a contributor to this thread, Burster have lighting parts made specifically for them by ?????? and Burster don't allow the sales of those items by independents. The prices of these items is astronomic compared to similar OE parts even, double at least the price of aftermarket similar items.

 

This is where A Class owners get hammered so presumably a lot of you wouldn't go near an A Class.

 

As each of you contribute to the conversation I do a little more online research, its clear that Fiat are not THE bad-boys. Just one amongst many.

 

How come Fiat managed to dodge the emissions scandal ? They have been named among many though VW carry-the-can.

[Muswell]

Noody - 2016-11-22 11:10 AM

 

 

How come Fiat managed to dodge the emissions scandal ? They have been named among many though VW carry-the-can.

 

I think that VW were stupid enough to fiddle the results so much that it was blatantly obvious.

[Derek Uzzell]

This recent article discusses the ‘emissions cheating’ issue and cites vehicle manufactuers other than VW

 

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a29293/vehicle-emissions-testing-scandal-cheating/

 

The logic (as I understand it!) is that VW’s software ‘recognised’ when emissions testing was being performed and reacted to reduce the vehcle’s emissions. Once the testing was over the software reset itself and, when the vehicle was subsequently being driven normally, its emissions were much higher. This ploy was deliberate cheating and VW eventually owned up to it.

 

What some other manufacturers have (apparently) done is design their vehicles so that they will pass emissions testing without any underhand intervention, but in real-world non-testing situations the vehicles’ emissions are much higher than might appear from the test findings. Whether or not the approaches employed by those vehicle manufacturers are ‘legal’ seems to be questionable.

[blaven]

I'm new to this forum, so I'm catching up on old posts. What you describe as a subframe is, I think, known as a cross-member. Yes they get rusty, and are badly painted, but my understanding is that a failed one is not an MOT problem. However, one wouldn't want it to get to that position. In addition, it acts as a support for the radiator, and if you ever need to change that, you need to drop the cross-member. Three big bolts on either side, and you can guarantee that these are not going to be easily unfastened! My 2003 Ducato has been subject to some salt air, and I was horrified 2 years ago when I needed to replace headlamp bulbs to find half the aluminium fins missing off the rad. So I bit the bullet, bought a rad from ECParts. and a subframe off Ebay and spent a week painting it with good old-fashioned red-oxide paint before practically filling its hollow section with a can of Waxoyl. I then gave the parts to my local mechanic who fitted them. When I asked him if all went well and if the big bolts gave any problem he looked a bit shifty and I suspect one of them might have sheared and some welding done. Whatever, the old girl took me to Nordkapp and back last year without a grumble

Noody - 2016-11-21 7:01 AM

 

It's good to hear a positive story, I haven't even mentioned failures that are regarded as classic for a vehicle that sits around doing nothing but I don't put my motorhomevawaymforbwinter. I will drive it for an hour every two weeks or so and because of where we live it tends to be used as a day van.

 

The lack of undersealmreally bothers me though I have yet to read of owners replacing the sumpmwhich is very vulnerable and doesn't have any protection.

 

I wonder how many of you just buy new and swop,them after three years ? We couldn't afford to do that on the basis of we don't use the van enough to warrant changing to a new one regularly.

 

Regarding the front subframe, it's rusty and until recently hasn't had any waxoil, I don't know what that front sub frame does though waiting until it fails seems wrong

 

Going back to that Fiat 500 we had, the dealership warned me that there was a fault with the gearbox, it was the spring that returns the shift into the gate when you drop out of fifth. They procrastinated until it was out of warranty then refused to deal with it.

 

So, right now I still have the fog lamps not working, I'm waiting on a replacement for the lock barrel and the new subframe is painted with three coats of hammer it's and waiting to go in. Plus some welding around. The lift point.

[Corky 8]

In May Last Year we were in Le Fleche , in a shopping car park was a Nissan panel Van bigger than what Ive seen in the UK. I reckon it was 3500kg cab layout looked a bit boxy but roomy so they May come up in the Motorhome world in the future with a bit of luck. Ive had two Fiats in the past and would never have another one,

[euroserv]

Hi,

 

I suspect you were looking at a Nissan NV400 which is just a re-badged Renault Master/Vauxhall Movano.

These vehicles might appeal to some for PVC's but if you opt for RWD, the floor height in the load area is raised by 4 inches over a FWD version. Might need a step ladder!

 

N

[Noody]

Thanks for the updates and contribution to the thread, seems I'm not being unfair and right now advising and aquintence to avoid Fiat if possible.

 

The Nissan van and the other are all Fiat group then ?

[goldi]

Good morning folks,

 

Last month my van was in for annual service and its first mot. They picked up on the instrument head not dimming and brightening this would have cost over £900 to replace but this was done all at fiats cost which I reckon at 3 years is very good. This also inspired me to finally change my 10 year old Honda jazz for a Qubo. the garage is only half hours walk away.

 

norm

[Noody]

Its good Norm, good that your dealership is on the ball but in my experience not all are doing their best even during the warranty period. Then its the things that happen after warranty, a multitude that I won't bore you with.

 

There are lots of parts that won't show failure during the warranty period, my view is they are neglected because Fiat know it'll take four years for that part to fail. Maybe even three years and a week.

 

I have spent a lot of time reading the Fiat forums and to some extent contributing, they have fan boys who won't listen to any criticism at all.

 

I have only had Ford and VW other than my recent 10 years of Fiat experience. The experience has been dreadful. As far as I know the Fiat 500 still has that cable trap for the power supply to the rear wiper, heat screen and lights.

 

Keep an eye on it Norm, make sure you spot any emerging problem and make the buggers sort it out. Not all of us live close enough to a dealership or in fact any dealership. Then there is buying second hand where the wealthy amongst us get-rid after three years and you buy from the dealer with a limited warranty. I wouldn't do it with a Fiat.

 

My power unit has never caused problems, its the last in the line of the 2.8 std but that had a lot of history,