silverback Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Hi all, was adding water to my leisure batteries, like i do yearly, and thought i would check the vehicle battery condition, well i got into the compartment to be confronted with wires and conections and boxes over the battery!! how are you supposed to check levels without taking everything off, there are only 2 caps showing to fill the water! is it possible to disconnect everything without resetting ecu alarms ect? how do the garages work on them? and will the water go into the other battery chambers? or are they individually sealed chambers? thanks in anticipation Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerThat Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I didn't even know they still made batteries that aren't sealed 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Jonathan Fiat’s starter-battery-related advice is as follows: "The battery is “limited maintenance” type: under normal conditions of use, the electrolyte does not need topping up with distilled water. It does, however, need to be checked periodically at a Fiat Dealership or by specialist personnel to make sure it is working correctly.” Removing the metal ‘clamp’ across the top of the battery and (if needs be) rotating the negative-terminal connector will allow access to more than two cell-caps, (see photos on the following link) http://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/357146-x250-replacing-starter-battery.html but to access all six cell-caps you’d also need to remove the connector ‘plate’ from the positive terminal. Removing the latter (or loosening the negative-terminal connector too much) will subsequently mean that certain things will need resetting (eg. date/time on the dashboard display, radio settings) but nothing earth-shattering. The cells are individual chambers and just pouring distilled water into one will not top up the rest. How do garages check Ducato X250/X290 starter-batteries? Possibly like I do by checking the cells that can be accessed without disconnecting anything and, if the electrolyte-level is OK in those, I assume that the remainder will be OK. That’s if they do it at all on many motorhomes, as I can well imagine that - if the cab floor has been carpeted - this will be a persuasive disincentive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I have just replaced the battery on my Fiat /Chausson motorhome, the battery turned out to be the original fitted to the van 2004 it was a sealed battery but on prising the top off I found it to be dry ish in a couple of the cells. I tried topping these up and re charging but no it was duff, I bought a new battery £109 from my local car dealer and it is warranted for 5 years, sealed unit, each cell is individual on batteries, so topping one up does not flow into others, removal of the battery was simple but difficult?? first remove the 2 clamps holding the battery in place, remove the top water cover, clipped on, disconnect the negative pole , slide the battery forward as far as the positive cable will allow , undo the positive clamp bolt 10 mil socket for this on my van, remove the positive assembly in one piece clearing the battery for removal, lift the battery out of the van, replace in reverse order. , my battery is very heavy 115 Amp Hours, my alarm was disarmed when I did this and just reset when the new battery was fitted , the radio needed a bit of fiddling to set time etc but does not have a code to reinstall. Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Derek Uzzell - 2016-11-29 6:53 PM How do garages check Ducato X250/X290 staerter-batteries? Possibly like I do by checking the cells that can be accessed without disconnecting anything and, if the electrolyte-level is OK in those, I assume that the remainder will be OK. That’s if they do it at all on many motorhomes, as I can well imagine - if the cab floor has been carpeted - this will be a disincentive. That's how I check mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 If removing a starter battery with a VanBitz Strikeback alarm follow this procedure: Loosen the earth clamp so it is still in reasonable contact with the post. Then remove the clamp in one single movement. If the clamp makes intermittent contact with the negative post - the alarm will be activated and will need to be switched off before trying again. Advice given by VanBitz when I had this problem. Other types of alarm system shouldn't have this problem as they are not active until the alarm is armed and the door/compartment is opened and the sensor contact is placed in the closed position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 RogerThat - 2016-11-29 6:05 PM I didn't even know they still made batteries that aren't sealed 8-) The following link is to a Yuasa informational webpage http://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/need-know-batteries/ I’m old enough to remember when it was unheard of for an ordinary ‘wet-acid’ battery to be designed so that its electroyte-level could not be checked and topped up when necessary. At least some of the problems motorcaravanners have with leisure batteries seem to be down to semantics regarding what “maintenance” means. In section “I” of their webpage Yuasa provides these definitions "Definition of Maintenance-Free 1.Our starter batteries for cars and commercial vehicles conform to the relevant sections of EN50342.1 A1 Nov 2011 for maintenance-free characteristics. This means that in normal vehicle applications in temperate climate operation, it is not necessary to add water. 2.Our batteries are designed to be topped up with water if water should be lost owing to, for example, a charging system fault, prolonged operation in hot climates, excessive off-vehicle charging etc. 3. Note. The term maintenance-free applies only when the battery is used in an approved automotive or commercial vehicle application. Definition of Low Maintenance 1. Low maintenance batteries in normal vehicle applications in temperate climate operation need water-addition only at yearly intervals. 2.Our batteries are designed to be topped up with water if water should be lost owing to, for example, a charging system fault, prolonged operation in hot climates, excessive off-vehicle charging etc. 3. Note. The term low maintenance applies only when the battery is used in an approved commercial vehicle application.” Unless I know otherwise I will always assume that a vehicle battery has been designed so that its electrolyte-level can be topped-up. This is far safer than assuming it has been designed so that its electrolyte-level cannot be topped-up. Yuasa states that the batteries being referred to are designed so that their electrolyte-level can be topped up and, in this case, I’m comfortable enough with the “Maintenance-free” and “Low Maintenance” terminology. However, using the term “Maintenance-free” for, say, a Varta LFD battery is less appropriate in my view, as that battery is not designed to be topped up even if it might be beneficial to do so. It would be better if such batteries were referred to as “No-Maintenance” or “Non-maintainable” to differentiate them from the ‘maintainable’ type. In ‘my' battery ideal world, a battery would carry a prominent “No-Maintenance” label if it is designed so that it cannot be topped up, or no label, which would indicate that it can be topped up. Gel and AGM batteries are “No-Maintenance” and do not need to carry a vent-tube - to all intents and purposes these batteries can be referred to as ‘sealed’. Batteries like Varta’s LFD range are also “No-Maintenance” but they have the design-provision to have a vent-tube attached and - in my book - that means they cannot legitimately be refered to as ‘sealed’. Received wisdom is that Gel and AGM batteries are genuinely ’tilt proof’ and can thus be installed in any orientation (vertical, horizontal, on their end). Modern ‘wet’ vehicle batteries - No-Maintenance or otherwise - are not tilt-proof. Even though they will have a a reasonable amount of tilt-tolerance, they will have been designed to be installed upright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Fiat advise when disconnecting the battery you should first connect another battery to the Jump Terminals under the bonnet so a battery remains in circuit at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 lennyhb - 2016-11-30 11:08 AM Fiat advise when disconnecting the battery you should first connect another battery to the Jump Terminals under the bonnet so a battery remains in circuit at all times. Thats what I would do in a workshop where I had a spare battery and leads to hand, and wasn't familiar with the vehicle to reset the clock and radio stations etc to the owner's satisfaction. Professionals have pocket sized batteries that provide enough power for that. Fot the DIY er without such eqipment to hand, its probably easier just to disconnect the battery and reset the clock/radio etc later. Then if they can't find the radio stations again they are not going to get a customer complaint as they have only themselves to blame (lol) In 7 years of owning my X2/50 I haven't needed to top the batteries up. Appaently it s less necessary with having the batteries sited away from the heat of the engine compartment like they are in a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 lennyhb - 2016-11-30 11:08 AM Fiat advise when disconnecting the battery you should first connect another battery to the Jump Terminals under the bonnet so a battery remains in circuit at all times. But do remember if doing this that the positive battery lead (and connector plate and other leads) remains live even when disconnected from the starter battery so be careful what you do with it once it's lifted off the positive battery terminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 lennyhb - 2016-11-30 11:08 AM Fiat advise when disconnecting the battery you should first connect another battery to the Jump Terminals under the bonnet so a battery remains in circuit at all times. I can’t find anything in Ducato X250 or X290 Owner Handbooks offering that advice. I can believe that a Fiat agent or mechanic might suggest this ploy, but as Steve928 highlights it carries risks for the unwary and, as John52 says, you’d need to have a spare battery and connection leads in order to do it. As John52 also mentions, 'memory savers’ of various types are available to avoid (primarily) radio-code loss when a starter-battery is to be disconnected/replaced, but whatever method is employed, it will still be necessary to expose the complete top of the battery to allow the electrolyte-level in all six cells to be checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted November 30, 2016 Author Share Posted November 30, 2016 Hello gents, thanks for all your replies i knew i could count on this community, i am going to do this tomorrow i think, but i haven't got another battery but i don't think that will matter cos i can isolate the radio/media player from the shutdown switch on the sargent unit according to the manuals, and the clock is no probs, if the alarm goes off i will just have to work fast (lol) the reason i want to check and maintain is because as Derek has quoted the charger when on hookup switches between the hab and veh batteries to charge them, so working on that theory the veh battery should gas off and use water, and the fact that i haven't checked in 4 years, also referring to the banner battery thread i checked my 2 banners 110ah and i have had them a year and put in 1 litre in total of distilled water so erring on the cautious side. i will report back if i needed to put in any water Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted December 1, 2016 Author Share Posted December 1, 2016 hello gents, just to follow up, i isolated the radio/media system with the black sargent button, then took off the negative (quick release clip) then the positive by unscrewing the red plastic thing and pulling out then take off the positive terminal lead, flip everything back to leave the caps exposed, i then topped up each cell to just above the marker, then put back in reverse order, while all this was going on the tracker kept txting me to say loss of power 8-) (lol) *-) anyway the battery took 75 ml of water so not bad in 4 years! reset the clock turned the black button on and all is well took about 1 hour (i zipped tied a few wires and tidied all up abit there is a lot going on in there) took the name and ampage of the battery just in case i have to replace in the future. many thanks for all the input B-) B-) B-) Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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