Future Motorrhome Design

[StuartO]

We've had our MH for 11 years and it's been interesting to seen designs evolve from what was, in 2006, the latest thing.  Ours was one of the first to have twin singles and also to have a swing-wall bathroom, which provides a more spacious shower than there would otherwise be space for within our length.  But we missed the LED lighting which has been such a powerful design improvement in recent years, providing featureful and stylish as well as low wattage illumination.  Fridges have got bigger in our length too; the designers created extra space by providing the hanging space which used to need a tall wardrobe under the foot ends of the single beds so that our size of MH (under 7 metres) can accomodate a bigger fridge and a separate freezer above and a gas oven above that instead.  These changes have meant some compensating sacrifices (eg I imagine that low level, under bunk wardrobes are not as handy) but overall these changes have been beneficial.

 

On the other hand the attempt to have stowaway fore-and-aft single beds at the front end of an A Class layout (eg Hymer's Dynamic Line design) don't seem to me to work well at all, calling for too much build-it-yourself when you want to go to bed.  In contrast the move towards narrower and lighter (overall weight under 3500kg) A Class MHs has worked reasonably well.  The modern concertina windscreen blinds work more smoothly too - and they've even made those open and close electrically.  I think we'll get more automation and remote control of habitation services in the future.

 

So I think A Class design has moved on a lot over the past ten years and current models are really good - although not good enough to persuade us to change our MH yet because our 2006 model still works well for us.

 

What will the designers come up with next I wonder?  A lot more electronics I fancy: things like better temperature control for heating and hot water systems and integration into the habitation design of solar panels and roof-mounted satellite aerials, which have become so necessary these days.  What do you anticipate we'll see in future MH design?

 

 

[Archiesgrandad]

I imagine the big change will be propulsion units. What do you think? gasolene instead of diesel?, Hybrid with diesel or gasolene?, or something we haven't encountered yet.

AGD

[Grumblewagon]

StuartO, I think your last paragraph explains everything that is wrong with motorhome design. It's no longer an escape from the daily grind and getting away for a bit of relaxation. It's a case of "we must have everything we have at home". Unfortunately, you may be correct - satellite TV and central heating are now "essentials" and we must have 100% 4G phone coverage and ultrafast broadband.

 

Well, I don't. Perhaps I'm an old Luddite, but while I want a comfortable, reliable van - possibly powered by hydrogen, I don't need the bells & whistles. I hope that there will be converters who will provide vans that can be customised to the owners specs - and not a computer in sight!

[dshague]

we have been looking at a new pvc .looked at lots of designs from all the main converters .all very similar .not a lot of storage under two single beds.Started looking at having a pvc converted to our own spec. Found companies advertising in MMM .talked and visited some .Found this company offering lots of extras .very high spec peugeot van at a price compering with budget vans .Chose of van colors  wood finish and upholstery ,,if you are in the market for a new pvc worth a look  - click on showroom to view 

 

http://www.imperialcarcentre.co.uk/

[Brock]

I expect the economic impact of decisions will have the biggest impact. Legislation has driven many of the changes we have seen and I expect it will continue to do so.

 

Innovation is expensive and in a competitive world, is unlikely to bring significant rewards if other manufacturers can easily copy. Therefore, I would expect innovation will come from suppliers to the industry rather than the manufacturers themselves.Perhaps we will see more consolidation of the products to reduce or at least hold costs and this will result in more and more similar looking motorhomes. On the upside, the chances of buying a bad van will recede.

 

Demographics also will have a role to play because most motorhome buyers are retired. Will there need to be cheaper and more cheerful motorhomes for families as the market dynamics change?

 

Depending on global decisions, we may see the smaller American motorhomes or Australian coming into this country on Merc and Fiat bases and the retreat of some of the smaller European manufacturers exporting to the UK.

 

The truck market is a good indicator with many of the developments in that industry filtering down in the van segment eg auto boxes, AdBlue. Terrain response auto boxes that read the road a ahead and select the gear in good time? Driverless motorhomes? On board weighing devices so we have no excuse at being overloaded? Carbon fibre bodies?

 

 

 

[colin]

Well I was looking forward to new slide out layouts what with Lippart actively targeting the EU/UK market. The only one I've seen so far is IH which seems to gone to a lot of effort to only add a couple of small cupboards, I'd like to see what Possl could come up with.

[pepe63xnotuse]

StuartO - 2018-03-11 5:38 PM

 

  But we missed the LED lighting which has been such a powerful design improvement in recent years, providing featureful and stylish as well as low wattage illumination.  Fridges have got bigger in our length too....../cropped/....... The modern concertina windscreen blinds work more smoothly too - and they've even made those open and close electrically. 

 

Do you not think it speaks volumes, when the most noticeable "design improvements" in 18 years, boil down to led lamps, a slightly bigger fridge...and electric cab blinds... :-S

 

(Did they get things pretty spot on then?..or have they not bothered innovating, now?.... :-S )

[michaelmorris]

Part of the problem of innovation in motorhomes is the huge range of layout and size options available (rear lounge, mid lounge, fixed bed, etc.). This means manufacturers will have to have a huge range of tooling and jigs, meaning that the costs of setting up new jigs and tooling can act as a brake on innovation and inevitable pushes manufacturers to use materials such as particle board as the main interior construction material. Not exactly an ideal material to use in a small space prone to knocks and water ingress and leaks.

 

An area where I suspect that high tooling costs have stifled innovation is in habitation bodywork. The present 'framework' style of construction of A class and Coach Built bodywork inevitably leads to all sorts of problems with leaks, rot, poor fit, poor security and low structural strength. The simplicity and integrity of the old Autosleeper monocot habitation bodywork is sadly lacking in many other designs.

 

 

 

[StuartO]

Grumblewagon - 2018-03-12 9:32 AM  ....   It's a case of "we must have everything we have at home". Unfortunately, you may be correct - satellite TV and central heating are now "essentials" and we must have 100% 4G phone coverage and ultrafast broadband.Well, I don't. Perhaps I'm an old Luddite, but while I want a comfortable, reliable van - possibly powered by hydrogen, I don't need the bells & whistles. ....

Yes, the urge to have every home comfort probably has driven MH design in recent years especially in the upmarket end, and that's doubtless a reflection of what the people who can afford expensive MHs want to buy.  There are of course people still buying tents to go camping in but those have also grown much bigger in recent years (as advances in tent materials and "air beam" designes have allowed much bigger tents to be transportable) and the gadgetry which goes with them has expanded into dependence on an EHU too.  And there are still people who go back-packing and sleep in pup tents, so each to his own.  I own what was an upmarket MH so it was on those that I was reflecting.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

michaelmorris - 2018-03-12 1:11 PM

 

...The simplicity and integrity of the old Autosleeper monocot habitation bodywork is sadly lacking in many other designs.

 

 

Motorhomes with GRP monococque bodywork are still available

 

https://www.wingamm.com/en/about-us-page-2/

 

http://www.camping-car-amenagement.com/camping-car/camping-car-cellules

 

but those manufacturers’ output is quite small and their prices are quite high.

 

And, whatever the bodywork construction, the end product is still a ‘removal van’ in drag.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

The moncocque body looks nice but extensive to repair in case of damage if at all possible. The movement forward is the base. We have now the new mercedes sprinter afther 12 years and 3 millons of them. fully adapted to the RV market but still diesel. What sits up o this is a engineered body kit. And in that kit a mh manufacturer lies his soul. Like a hymer who even evented a special ultra lightweight chassis together whit alko. One of a kind. On their supreme line. The hymer group is heading for 200000RV, A fraction for a car builder to be solvent.

[snowie]

I wonder if the big change will come in the financing of motor homes. Will private leasing become the accepted way to experience the high end makes, rather than taking a hit with first year depreciation. Take a calculated hit with a lease deal. Then we can all have absolutely anything we want, and leasing will release loads more high end used model onto the market.

Not very sustainable, but innovation isn’t high on buyers lists, is it?

Had our van 10 years, and might consider a makeover, rather than buy new.

Regards

Snowie

[StuartO]

snowie - 2018-03-13 8:19 AMI wonder if the big change will come in the financing of motor homes. Will private leasing become the accepted way to experience the high end makes, rather than taking a hit with first year depreciation. ....

 

Personal leasing has certainly become a big feature of the car market in UK and lots of people sign up to spend their chosen monthly amount for the use of a new car and recycle the arrangement periodically to keep a new car on their drive, without worrying about the lack of residual value in the deal, so maybe it will happen in the motorhome market too, that's beyond my knowledge or speculative expertise.  The UK MH market is certainly still expanding and that does have implications for the availability of used MHs - but don't high end MHs depreciate disproportionately quickly and, as they get to ten years old or more, become unsaleable simply because lower-end buyers have no where to store larger vehicles?  You can still buy older American RVs for nenxt to nothing.

 

[starvin marvin]

I’be been giving some thought recently to the question of changing our van. We’re had it 3 years is and will now, with the diesel fallout in freefall keep it for a little longer. My thoughts are a “small” US RV and convert from petrol to LPG. I’ve seen a few on the road and hired one recently in Canada.

 

However they are not ground breaking in types of innovative design solutions. I guess what we need is the Japannese to get in on the act, they seem capable of squeezing a litre into a half litre.

[StuartO]

There are of course likely to be developments in the chassis upon which MHs are built and we're all likely to be wondering whether this has implications for the residal value of our diesel models.  I was only thinking about the habitation side of things when I started this thread.

 

I agree that internally most US RVs are pretty uninspiring and it's only the (astronomically expensive) really high end ones that have internal design and joinery which is remotely up to European standards.  They are all, as vehicle, too fat and ungainly for European roads, at least for the purposes of ordinary MH touring.  I too considered an LPG-conversion RV as a replacement but it didn't take me long to abandon the idea.  

 

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Just read that the sprinter can be supplied as projected in a electric version as a hybrid plug in.

[snowie]

Can’t see where it says that, most exciting thing I saw was 7” Mbsomething screen; or something!

Surely layout and space utilisation is the most important area for development? Curtains, cushions and mock wood effects have been overrated for years,

Maybe a bespoke petrol/lpg conversion offers the most excitement for the future. At least if you design it yourself you can take a chance on your own judgement.

Regards

Snowie

[Archiesgrandad]

A thought on RVs, I thought the build quality of ours was pretty good, but the design and layout, whilst it gave us very comfortable accomodation, did not compare well with " country cottage" style of British vans, but we loved it.Ours, a Georgy Boy Swinger, was definately one of the wider models, but it never stopped us going anywhere we wanted to.

With regard to future van design, we already have pretty much every layout that might be possible, but I imagine that if someone can work out a way of making inexpensive, and most importantly, lightweight slide outs, that would open up a whole new area for developement.

I still think that power units are going to be the big area for developement. I am not convinced about the desirability of vast rechargeable batteries hanging underneath a van travelling at 60/70/80 mph, 50 kilos of liquid fuel is bad enough, so I would look towards some form electric motors powered by a new generation of fixed speed, high efficiency gasolene engine.

So there you have it, for me it needs to be a 1 ton van, powered by a petrol electric unit, which opens up like a Transformer at the touch of a button, to provide the accomodation we need .

AGD

[Geeco]

Looking at this question from afar the only innovation in design I feel we will see here is that created in a market with a larger critical mass than we can offer. I see Europe and USA as the only two markets applicable. Everything I read or watch coming out of Asian countries ie Japan or China are currently giant non events in the habitation area. The design layouts currently available from UK/Euro makers seem to have exhausted almost all the options from some very creative designers. The traditional USA large MH is IMHO a scaled down version of a house built on wheels. There are builders in North America (eg Integrity) that are building really nice Euro style MH 's on Mercedes Benz or Dodge Ram (read Ducato) chassis. The slide out has been an interesting development and it is now very common to see these fitted to mainstream MH and caravans here. The UK/Euro market as far as I can see is focused on providing product to work within  the 3500kg limit for car licences. Narrow & tight roads are also a major consideration. The North American and Australian markets do not have either of those constraints. We can drive up to 4500kg on a standard car licence. So we tend to drive 7-7.5 mtr ish vehicles. So I guess what I am driving at is for us in this part of the globe innovation must come from the critical mass markets mentioned. Motorhome builders use suppliers for items such as refrigeration, kitchen appliances, aircon / heating units etc. I would like to see improvements in the design of those items rather than a quantum leap in design concept. Eg a more efficient frig, a more silent aircon unit a faster startup of the heating system and so on. I would also like to see the designers use fasteners designed not to allow the towel rail to come loose on the wall or the cupboard door screws to pull out. I think it is called improvements in QC. In summary the innovation I would like to see is to "make a better mousetrap " and priced at current levels.

Cheers,

[snowie]

I’m sat here in El Berro, Sierra de Espuna , Spain, considering this thread and the Globescout shower thread.

Both of which have given me something to think about between walks, cooking, eating and enjoying this part of Spain.

I have been thinking of ways to improve our 10 year old van ; nothing too drastic, but more than tinkering.

If I can make it work financially then I ‘ve definately got one more upgrade in mind, and it will be pretty much a one-off.

So thanks to those of you who have contributed to the above threads; my thoughts have crystallised!

I have a plan and a spec in mind !

All the best,

Snowie

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Fully agreed on fasteners and QC. Since Loctite was invented for cars in the us to prevent bolts on the high ways. and now replaced by excentric locking there must be a improvement on permanent locking or non permanent. About weight in the EU we have discussion on the 3.5 t and above. Truckers above have time limits to drive before rest, But are bypassed by 3.5 t loads who drive from here to barcelona and back non stop. And have theft on their loads during their stops along the road There are a lot of components fitted to your motor home and for sure it can get wrong fitted. Even on a hymer customer who spend a couple of weeks in the service station of hymer brand new sold. To mention a few: Tyre pressure monitor light came up all the the times. at last hymer said damaged by steel to alu wheels which is common practise. Another one that his sunblinds were fallen all the time before his face in driving position. They have still work to do on this.

[snowie]

Geeco - 2018-03-14 6:46 AMThe design layouts currently available from UK/Euro makers seem to have exhausted almost all the options from some very creative designers. The traditional USA large MH is IMHO a scaled down version of a house built on wheels. ."?."."I think it is called improvements in QC. In summary the innovation I would like to see is to "make a better mousetrap " and priced at current levels.

Cheers,

I’m just wondering Gary, what’s the infrastructure like for motorhoming? Do vans need to be more self sufficient? One assumes “wildcamping “ really can be as wild as you like, or maybe not.In UK there’s a lot of social camping, via the two main clubs and other organisations, plenty of opportunities to sit around inside your van, rear lounge or whatever layout suits. I also imagine that the age range of campers in Aus/NZ is much wider, more young people that the majority of Europe?I guess also that the large pension pots of the “boomers” will be rarer in the future.Having done 10 years of European touring, I’d like to be able to camp in US and Aus , but hiring at reasonable cost to be able to enjoy long trips.RegardsSnowie

[tonyg3nwl]

How about referring the question to George Clarkes Amazing Spaces program as a challenge.

Often watch the program, and some of the ideas have been interesting.. cutting side off old caravan and making it drop down to form a patio area for example..similar to slideouts.. another one was to install a full size bath hidden under a bunk .

Food for thought?

 

tonyg3nwl

 

 

 

 

[Geeco]

Alan, The infrastructure for motorhoming here is overall very good. The two main options are structured caravan parks with all services and free camping (read wild). The free camps are further broken down into completely free with no facilities or low cost that are often Showgrounds, or parklands provided and serviced by local councils. The east coast has probably the least amount of free camps and the most amount of fully serviced camp grounds, known here as caravan parks. The ratio of Caravans to MH is around 10:1 in favour of the caravans. We have found on our travels certainly in the eastern states that dump points are almost in every town and are free so if you want to wild camp you can dump in the nearest town on your way to or from. Retired people here with RV's are known as grey nomads and they seem to be the bulk of travellers using the RV system outside of school holidays. We tend to spend most of our time outside our MH due to the nice weather so at happy hour (usually around 5pm) it is not difficult to strike up a chat with a neighbour over a glass or three. We were surprised to find when we started with our MH how many grey nomads were full time on the road. They are very clever at locating the cheap no frills locations that often offer great views etc and are free. We have found the the whole process is very safe. Out of school holidays the young people we have met along the way are 20 somethings in campervans (known here as wizzbangs) from UK/Europe travelling the the country sightseeing and often picking up casual work along the way to supliment the budget. Often Grey nomads like to do "the lap" ie travel around the country and often take many months to complete as a means of enjoying their retirement. My Sister & hubby are currently on their second lap that is planned to last 9 months. With the right planning you are always in warm weather, south of the continent is our summer and north in winter. As you travel to Spain for winter we would travel north. A car licence here will allow you to drive up to 4500kg so there are many options for MH hire here size wise so plenty of choice. One point to remember is that this is a big country in fact bigger that Europe so travel distances can be long. If you need more info send me a pm and I can send you more info.cheers,

[snowie]

Thanks Gary, we have some planning to do to make such a distance worthwhile, so will probably have a look at buying used and selling when done, depends how ambitious we feel!

Cheers

Snowie