Gas in France - Pas de Calor

[Duffer]

Hi,

 

I know you can't get Calor in France, but I've read on line that Le Cube (which seems to be a popular and widely available gas?) has the same fitting as Calor. Is this true?

 

I believe I'm taking enough gas (2 x 6kg bottles) but just in case I have the heating on too much and I run out it would be nice to know in advance what I can use.

 

I don't want to fit GasLow or similar as I may be changing the van after this trip and I know the dealer won't give extra for anything over the normal spec.

 

If I run out I suppose I could always visit a dealer and buy a new tail, but can anyone give the definitive answer please - is there a 6kg size bottle (pref propane) that fits a calor tail?

 

Thanks

 

[Tracker]

Before we had a one refillabe + one Calor backup, we used to have three Calor gas 6kg bottles so that whenever we went abroad we always began with two full Calor. On long or potentially cold trips we used to carry a third Calor or even a Camping Gaz 907 stowed away and securely secured just in case.

 

Now stand back and await the proclamations of the risk perception, but if a Calor Gas bottle is deemed by it's maker to be safe enough to store and safe enough in the open temperature extremes and vibrations of an open delivery truck it ougfht to be safe tightly capped, wrapped and secured in a motorhome locker! I have seen them carried lashed to a rear ladder but that never appealed to me!

[Keithl]

Duffer - 2018-01-18 4:24 PM

 

- is there a 6kg size bottle (pref propane) that fits a calor tail?

 

Thanks

 

It depends on whether you are using Calor Butane or Propane.

 

I believe Le Cube is the same as a Calor Butane, ie 21.8 LH Male Thread on the cylinder.

 

A Calor Propane uses a Left Hand POL connection with the cylinder having a Female thread.

 

Keith.

 

Edit. Or you could use one of these adaptors to connect the Propane POL to a 21.8 LH Male thread...

 

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Products/01-4331

[Brian Kirby]

You may want to check that your gas locker will take a "Cube". It measures 35cm high x 28cm square, 5kg propane. Present cost of propane on exchange €17.90 plus, as with Calor, a one-off cylinder hire charge: €29.00 for a Cube. Available in both butane (blue label), and propane (red label).

 

I'm assuming your van has a 30mbar bulkhead mounted regulator.

 

In addition to the Cube itself, you will need a clip-on connector (raccord clip direct) to give a threaded union for your pig-tail. Available on-line in France at €16.50. This clip is common to both propane and butane cubes. Your UK "Calor" style pig-tail will not connect, and you would probably be wise to buy a UK style butane pig-tail before leaving to simplify acquisition. This is the same threaded connection as French propane.

 

Most supermarkets sell the cylinders: I don't know about the clips.

[Zydeco Joe]

No La Cube and Calor are different fittings I know as I use both. When we got the La Cube 5 years ago I needed a pig tail to fit it so got one from a French dealer. The bottle holds less than Calor but is much cheaper and no problem to change, just call into most large supermarkets that have a fuel station not all but most. It works for us like now as we are down in Spain. B-)

[Derek Uzzell]

Some previous “Le Cube” stuff

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/French-gas/38479/

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Warning-Gas/38630/

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Connections-to-connect-a-Le-Cube-to-your-bulkhead-regulator/38670/

[Duffer]

Brian Kirby - 2018-01-18 5:40 PM

 

You may want to check that your gas locker will take a "Cube". It measures 35cm high x 28cm square, 5kg propane. Present cost of propane on exchange €17.90 plus, as with Calor, a one-off cylinder hire charge: €29.00 for a Cube. Available in both butane (blue label), and propane (red label).

 

I'm assuming your van has a 30mbar bulkhead mounted regulator.

 

In addition to the Cube itself, you will need a clip-on connector (raccord clip direct) to give a threaded union for your pig-tail. Available on-line in France at €16.50. This clip is common to both propane and butane cubes. Your UK "Calor" style pig-tail will not connect, and you would probably be wise to buy a UK style butane pig-tail before leaving to simplify acquisition. This is the same threaded connection as French propane.

 

Most supermarkets sell the cylinders: I don't know about the clips.

 

Thanks Brian.

 

This trip is getting expensive - I've spent more on maps, aires books, bulbs, breathalysers, and now enough kit to build a gas works! I hope I enjoy it and go back a few imes a year :-)

[Casimir]

When travelling in or through France I carry an Intermarche 9 kilo bottle of propane. The deposit was one euro. Last week I bought a refill for €18.90 at an Intermarche service station in Calais. Intermarche has service stations all over France, although not all of them have supplies of their own cream coloured gas bottles.

 

[Duffer]

Casimir - 2018-01-18 8:00 PMWhen travelling in or through France I carry an Intermarche 9 kilo bottle of propane. The deposit was one euro. Last week I bought a refill for €18.90 at an Intermarche service station in Calais. Intermarche has service stations all over France, although not all of them have supplies of their own cream coloured gas bottles.

Yes, I'd heard some place did cheap deposit and gas. I'll have to check what size bottles they have and check them against my locker. Do you know if Intermarche sell the tails as well or if they're easily available?

[Matrix Meanderer]

Don't rule out installing a Gaslow cylinder. OK they're not cheap but they're usually simple to transfer to your next MH.

Our Gaslow set up is in its third motorhome and we've not paid anything for the changeover. And we have benefited from low LPG prices at the pumps. Plus no time spent exchanging cylinders.

[PJay]

Duffer - 2018-01-18 6:55 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2018-01-18 5:40 PM

 

You may want to check that your gas locker will take a "Cube". It measures 35cm high x 28cm square, 5kg propane. Present cost of propane on exchange €17.90 plus, as with Calor, a one-off cylinder hire charge: €29.00 for a Cube. Available in both butane (blue label), and propane (red label).

 

I'm assuming your van has a 30mbar bulkhead mounted regulator.

 

In addition to the Cube itself, you will need a clip-on connector (raccord clip direct) to give a threaded union for your pig-tail. Available on-line in France at €16.50. This clip is common to both propane and butane cubes. Your UK "Calor" style pig-tail will not connect, and you would probably be wise to buy a UK style butane pig-tail before leaving to simplify acquisition. This is the same threaded connection as French propane.

 

Most supermarkets sell the cylinders: I don't know about the clips.

 

Thanks Brian.

 

This trip is getting expensive - I've spent more on maps, aires books, bulbs, breathalysers, and now enough kit to build a gas works! I hope I enjoy it and go back a few imes a year :-)

 

As Brian has stated, CHECK your gas locker size. The French bottles will not fit in our locker . They are too fat ! ( Like me!)

How long are you going away for ? 2 bottles should be plenty. We use less than half a bottle in a couple of months, but we do use sites not aires!

 

PJay

[Derek Uzzell]

Duffer - 2018-01-18 8:10 PM

Casimir - 2018-01-18 8:00 PMWhen travelling in or through France I carry an Intermarche 9 kilo bottle of propane. The deposit was one euro. Last week I bought a refill for €18.90 at an Intermarche service station in Calais. Intermarche has service stations all over France, although not all of them have supplies of their own cream coloured gas bottles.

Yes, I'd heard some place did cheap deposit and gas. I'll have to check what size bottles they have and check them against my locker. Do you know if Intermarche sell the tails as well or if they're easily available?

I strongly suggest you refer to my posting of 18 January 2018 6:02 PM above, and (as my French master used to say) read, mark and learn the information in the links.The French market for portable gas bottels (bonbonnes/bouteilles de gaz) is very competitiive and there are often attractive ‘deals' to encourage people to switch from one gas supplier to another.The attached photo shows just some of the portable containers marketed in France. These may be metal or ‘plastic’, may just contain butane or propane (or either), are of various capacity and may be nationally available or available only from specific outlets. (For example the Energaz 10kg metal butane bottle is only available from Intermarché: Ecomarché, Bricomarché, Netto et Roady supermarkets.)It needs to be appreciated that ALL French gas bottles have a larger ‘cross section’ than a Calor 6kg bottle. As Brian Kirby has warned, even the Butagaz Le Cube’s cross-section is wider than the Calor bottle’s and (as was the case with my Herald motorhome and certain other UK-built models) a gas-locker that can accept a Calor 6kg canister may not be able to accept a Le Cube. The Le Cube is the French gas-bottle that’s most likely to be ’swappable’ for a Calor 6kg bottle, but if a Le Cube won’t fit in your gas-locker, there’s no chance whatsoever that an alternative French bottle can be accommodated. Consequently, if your 2 x 6kg Calor bottles became depleted while in France and you could not use a Le Cube because it would not go in the gas-locker, the only remaining realistic option would be to use a 2.75kg (butane) Campingaz 907 bottle (with the appropriate adaptor of course).If you are able to decide in advance that a Le Cube container will fit in your gas-locker, I suggest you obtain the necessary adaptors in the UK. You’ll need a 27mm clip-on adaptor (example here)http://www.gaslowdirect.com/Gaslow-27mm-Clip-on-Adapter-with-Top-Entry-Elboand you can either obtain the type of 21.8LH pigtail that would be used with a Calor 4.5kg BUTANE bottle, or adapt your present UK-norm propane ’POL-connection’ pigtail to the 21.8LH fitting (example of adaptor here)https://tinyurl.com/y79ad3q3If you think your 2 x 6kg Calor bottles are unlikely to run out during your French trip and you decide that if they do run out you’ll deal with the problem in France, DO NOT seek advice from French DIY stores or supermarkets - DO go to a caravan or motorhome dearlership. DIY stores/suprmarkets probably won’t have the correct adaptors and their staff probably won’t have caravan/motorhome experience. A French caravan/motorhome dealership almost certainly will not have a POL-to-21.8LH adaptor, but they will have an appropriate pigtail, will probably have an adaptor for a Le Cube bottle and you won’t end up with the dangerous/problematical lash-ups mentioned in the links in my previous posting above.

[Casimir]

Duffer - 2018-01-18 9:10 PM

 

Yes, I'd heard some place did cheap deposit and gas. I'll have to check what size bottles they have and check them against my locker. Do you know if Intermarche sell the tails as well or if they're easily available?

 

The dimesions of the Intermarché "Energaz" 9 kilo bottle are: Diametre 305 mm Hauteur 495mm.

 

I think you should obtain a suitable adapter to enable you to use your existing (Calor) pigtail before leaving the UK. Alternatively obtain a new pigtail. There are links to both items elsewhere in this thread.

 

I use an app on my iPad which lists all Intermarché service stations, shows current fuel prices and provides information about which ones sell gas bottles.

 

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-01-19 9:33 AM.....................................If you are able to decide in advance that a Le Cube container will fit in your gas-locker, I suggest you obtain the necessary adaptors in the UK. You’ll need a 27mm clip-on adaptor (example here)

 

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/Gaslow-27mm-Clip-on-Adapter-with-Top-Entry-Elbo.........................

Which appears identical to the clip on adaptor sold by Butagaz. You can't afford to take risks over this, as the adaptor incorporates an on/off valve, without which you would be tapping straight into the cylinder as soon as the clip was in position!

 

So, first check available gas locker space, then get both the clip connector and either the further 21/8LH to UK POL adaptor Derek linked to, or a 21.8LH pigtail, while in UK.

[Derek Uzzell]

I’ve just posted my long “GAS IN EUROPE” dissertation to this forum, and I’ve frozen it as I’m not looking for comments. If it’s felt worthwhile I’ll ask Daniel Attwood if it can be ’sticky-ed’ so that it stays at the Motorhome Matters forum's top for easy reference.

[Keithl]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-01-19 2:25 PM

 

I’ve just posted my long “GAS IN EUROPE” dissertation to this forum, and I’ve frozen it as I’m not looking for comments. If it’s felt worthwhile I’ll ask Daniel Attwood if it can be ’sticky-ed’ so that it stays at the Motorhome Matters forum's top for easy reference.

 

Derek,

 

There are a lot of duplicated paragraphs in your separate posting which you may need to edit, otherwise fantastic info.

 

Keith.

[bolero boy]

Matrix Meanderer - 2018-01-19 7:48 AM

 

Don't rule out installing a Gaslow cylinder. OK they're not cheap but they're usually simple to transfer to your next MH.

Our Gaslow set up is in its third motorhome and we've not paid anything for the changeover. And we have benefited from low LPG prices at the pumps. Plus no time spent exchanging cylinders.

 

Agreed, once ypuve done a few trips ypull be off to Spain, for sure and then you'll be asking about spanish bottles...forget the faff, get just one refillable (and a couple of adaptors) and youll be set up for all of europe....

[Derek Uzzell]

Keithl - 2018-01-19 2:29 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2018-01-19 2:25 PM

 

I’ve just posted my long “GAS IN EUROPE” dissertation to this forum, and I’ve frozen it as I’m not looking for comments. If it’s felt worthwhile I’ll ask Daniel Attwood if it can be ’sticky-ed’ so that it stays at the Motorhome Matters forum's top for easy reference.

 

Derek,

 

There are a lot of duplicated paragraphs in your separate posting which you may need to edit, otherwise fantastic info.

 

Keith.

 

Thanks for the heads-up.

 

This is an elderly piece and is in a couple of places elsewhere on the O&AL forums. The latest variant has a few minor tweaks over the earlier versions, but I must have done something major when editing it to jumble it up so badly. I’ve deleted the original and reposted what should make more sense.

 

Derek

[Derek Uzzell]

bolero boy - 2018-01-19 9:53 PM

 

Matrix Meanderer - 2018-01-19 7:48 AM

 

Don't rule out installing a Gaslow cylinder. OK they're not cheap but they're usually simple to transfer to your next MH.

Our Gaslow set up is in its third motorhome and we've not paid anything for the changeover. And we have benefited from low LPG prices at the pumps. Plus no time spent exchanging cylinders.

 

Agreed, once ypuve done a few trips ypull be off to Spain, for sure and then you'll be asking about spanish bottles...forget the faff, get just one refillable (and a couple of adaptors) and youll be set up for all of europe....

 

In his original posting Keith (Duffer) said

 

"I don't want to fit GasLow or similar as I may be changing the van after this trip and I know the dealer won't give extra for anything over the normal spec”

 

It makes good sense then for him to put the idea of a user-refillable gas system on hold until he has firmed up on whether or not he will be replacing his present motorhome. There’s not a huge difference between the price of a small-capacity refillable bottle (which Keith would probably need now) and an equivalent large-capacity one. If Keith should buy a motorhome that has a large gas-locker, it would be logical to opt for the largest capacity refillable container that will fit in the locker.

 

 

[Steve928]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-01-19 9:33 AM

The Le Cube is the French gas-bottle that’s most likely to be ’swappable’ for a Calor 6kg bottle, but if a Le Cube won’t fit in your gas-locker, there’s no chance whatsoever that an alternative French bottle can be accommodated. Consequently, if your 2 x 6kg Calor bottles became depleted while in France and you could not use a Le Cube because it would not go in the gas-locker, the only remaining realistic option would be to use a 2.75kg (butane) Campingaz 907 bottle (with the appropriate adaptor of course).

 

Indeed. I was researching this very issue yesterday for a fellow Bailey owner who has arrived in France unprepared and discovered that the current Autograph range have a gas locker door only 275mm wide that will not accept any French gas bottle.

For those within reach of Belgium the company Primagaz appear to be using the exact same cylinder as the (lamented) 6Kg Calor Lite for their Easyblue Plus propane bottle, albeit with a 21.8LH butane-nut connector. A useful emergency measure for those who find themselves truly stuck.

[Derek Uzzell]

As you’ve highlighted, there are Continental-European gas bottes that could be used as realistic alternatives to Calor’s 7kg/6kg canister - but I don’t think any of these are available in France.

 

Cagogas (Germany) offers metal propane bottles in 3kg (200mm diameter) or 5kg (230mm diameter) sizes and (as I understand this website)

 

http://www.cagogas.de/

 

they can be purchased outright (and are then contractually OK for user-refilling) or as ‘exchnge’ bottles like under the Calor scheme.

 

The gas-locker of my 2005 Hobby T-600FC motorhome was sized to accept a German 11kg bottle and a 5kg bottle. The French press was enthusiastic about the vehicle but, although the standard French 13kg metal bottle (presumably) could go in the locker, there was no French equivalent to the German 5kg container. It’s probable that a French 13kg bottle plus a Le Cube would have gone in and a pair of Le Cubes should certainly have fitted, but I always thought that the T-600FC’s locker was too small for the French motorhome market and could easily put off potential buyers. For the 2006 model-year the locker was resized to accommodate 2 x 11kg bottles, so perhaps the Hobby designers deciced that the 11kg+5kg combination wasn’t the greatest of ideas.

 

It is possible in France to obtain 6kg user-refillable bottles (Gaslow-branded and others)

 

https://www.shopevasion.fr/PBSCCatalog.asp?PBCATID=2958884&ExitMobile=1

 

but these are more expensive than in the UK and I’m not sure about the availability of a ‘direct filling’ adapter (that would simplify the installation). One would have to be really desparate to explore this approach, but the option is there.

 

 

[Duffer]

Casimir - 2018-01-18 8:00 PMWhen travelling in or through France I carry an Intermarche 9 kilo bottle of propane. The deposit was one euro. Last week I bought a refill for €18.90 at an Intermarche service station in Calais. Intermarche has service stations all over France, although not all of them have supplies of their own cream coloured gas bottles.

Could you tell me what the fitting is please? I'll try and get one before leaving. Thanks.

[Ocsid]

Is there not a case here for buying a Gaslow "direct filling" refillable bottle as opposed to their more commonly used installed system bottle?

 

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Products/01-4006-67-D

 

There is a 6 kg size so should fit and by the very nature of being a portable bottle can move onto your next MH acquisition, plus it is as usable over here in the UK. There is an even smaller one and a 10 kg as well.

 

With the demise of the Calor Light probably now is a good time for a "gas" provision rethink for many of us.

[Duffer]

Ocsid - 2018-01-21 2:22 PM

 

Is there not a case here for buying a Gaslow "direct filling" refillable bottle as opposed to their more commonly used installed system bottle?

 

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Products/01-4006-67-D

 

There is a 6 kg size so should fit and by the very nature of being a portable bottle can move onto your next MH acquisition, plus it is as usable over here in the UK. There is an even smaller one and a 10 kg as well.

 

With the demise of the Calor Light probably now is a good time for a "gas" provision rethink for many of us.

I've heard that lots of places won't let you refill them. Is this an urban myth? You're right that they make a sensible option - presumably you don't need to use a new regulator? They include a 37mbar but the head on my van is a 30 I think.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

You can avoid the gas problem by having a 120 ltr ducato tank and the famous truma 4000 watt heating- hot water boiler and a compressor fridge. The gasbottle and tanks installed in the uk seems to me looking like having not a single standard.