starvin marvin Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The time is nigh for tyres to be replaced, I was looking at prices back in August and the Conti Vanco Camper was then £118 now £126! However I've been asking about having high pressure valves, what a performance this has been with very little knowledge out there or indeed willingness to provide them. I've yet to be given a price for metal valves the usual comment being " we can get them for you" to "I think you going to have to get them yourself from a motorhome dealers" Clearly they know nothing of m/h dealers or at least the ones I've had the misfortune to have dealt with over the years. So the question is what choice is out there and how much do they cost? I have gleaded so far that there are some high pressure valves that are rubber pull-in with a brass stem that go up to 120psi, sounds very high but thats what I've been told. These must be in addition to metal clamp-in valves. Can anyone offer any pointers on this query please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 See: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Pressure-Nickel-Plated-Metal-Valves-set-4-/380200459011?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item5885b69b03 They're obviously from http://www.tyresave.co.uk (who know what they are doing with motorhome/commercial tyres), and are considerably more expensive on the listing on their own site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 A couple of earlier forum threads: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23612&start=1 http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=20832&posts=7 Nowadays there are ruggedised 'snap-in' high pressure tyre valves that should be good for at least 100psi inflation pressure (Alligator's CVV-EASY valve is one example and (I suspect) the factory-fitted valve used on current model Transits with 16" wheels is another), but you might be better advised to opt for traditional-style 'clamp-in' valves designed to handle way above that figure. Have a look at this link: http://www.auto4.co.uk/ (SEARCH the forum using clamp-in, Derek Uzzell and All posts for more discussion.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 ....for the "Transit type" snap-in valves Derek mentions, see: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TUBELESS-TRANSIT-VAN-HIGH-PRESSURE-TYRE-VALVE-TR600-/220804658617?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CommercialVehicleParts_SM&hash=item3368fbb5b9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I managed to replace my 'Elderly' michelin xc campers with Conti Vanco campers for £105 each, they included 'High pressure valves' mine are a black plastic finish with brass internals. The tyre guy seemed to know that they were needed as the pressures were 75 psi, standard valves only go upto 50psi. I would suggest trying a differant tyre fitter. one that mainly does 'White van man' and commercial rather than cars. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Rayjsj - 2012-01-17 3:49 PM I managed to replace my 'Elderly' michelin xc campers with Conti Vanco campers for £105 each, they included 'High pressure valves' mine are a black plastic finish with brass internals. The tyre guy seemed to know that they were needed as the pressures were 75 psi, standard valves only go upto 50psi. I would suggest trying a differant tyre fitter. one that mainly does 'White van man' and commercial rather than cars. Ray "Try a different tyre fitter"..... you must be joking, I've spent the best part of today finding a supplier/fitter that can offer a competitive price......Getting these valves, whilst important, seem to be the least of my problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirage Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Don`t use anything but metal shrouded HP valves. Our last van was supplied new with standard rubber valves and after the second flat (front wheels) both luckily on the drive I found out what the problem was. Even a well known national tyre supplier replaced the first blown valve with the same rubber valve. If I remember rightly five years ago it cost £60 to replace all four. If this had happened at speed on a motorway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmac Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 About 15 months ago I ordered a tyre from MYTYRES - delivered to local Vauxhall dealer for fitting. That day I discussed the issue of HP valves with the service manager who showed me the original valve - which he cut open for my inspection - guess what - exactly the same as the replacement he was fitting ! My van is 3850 Kgs,all up and the other tyres have the same valves. I have done about 25k miles without problem and latest tyre has done approx 4k. I am confused ! Should I be worried ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 alanmac - 2012-01-17 9:52 PM About 15 months ago I ordered a tyre from MYTYRES - delivered to local Vauxhall dealer for fitting. That day I discussed the issue of HP valves with the service manager who showed me the original valve - which he cut open for my inspection - guess what - exactly the same as the replacement he was fitting ! My van is 3850 Kgs,all up and the other tyres have the same valves. I have done about 25k miles without problem and latest tyre has done approx 4k. I am confused ! Should I be worried ? ....depends what pressures you're running at, (and whether you're feeling lucky ;-) ) but I would certainly want to have high-pressure valves on my wheels. The normal-pressure rubber snap-in valves are only approved by ETRTO (European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation) for use up to 4.5 bar (65psi approx). A number of valve manufacturers will recommend all-metal valves above this pressure. The high-pressure TR600 type shown on my post above are approved to 5.5 bar (80psi approx), and are fitted to my Transit, which has a maximum recommended pressure (for the rear axle tyres) of 70psi. Whilst they are still snap-in with a rubber seat, my understanding is that they have a full metal stem. If you're running above 65 psi, you certainly need specific high-pressure valves, and IMO (metal) bolt-ins are just about a given if you choose to accept the 5.5 bar recommendation of some convertors/tyre manufacturers (it's just too close to the limit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Robinhood - 2012-01-17 10:50 PM alanmac - 2012-01-17 9:52 PM About 15 months ago I ordered a tyre from MYTYRES - delivered to local Vauxhall dealer for fitting. That day I discussed the issue of HP valves with the service manager who showed me the original valve - which he cut open for my inspection - guess what - exactly the same as the replacement he was fitting ! My van is 3850 Kgs,all up and the other tyres have the same valves. I have done about 25k miles without problem and latest tyre has done approx 4k. I am confused ! Should I be worried ? ....depends what pressures you're running at, (and whether you're feeling lucky ;-) ) but I would certainly want to have high-pressure valves on my wheels. The normal-pressure rubber snap-in valves are only approved by ETRTO (European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation) for use up to 4.5 bar (65psi approx). A number of valve manufacturers will recommend all-metal valves above this pressure. The high-pressure TR600 type shown on my post above are approved to 5.5 bar (80psi approx), and are fitted to my Transit, which has a maximum recommended pressure (for the rear axle tyres) of 70psi. Whilst they are still snap-in with a rubber seat, my understanding is that they have a full metal stem. If you're running above 65 psi, you certainly need specific high-pressure valves, and IMO (metal) bolt-ins are just about a given if you choose to accept the 5.5 bar recommendation of some convertors/tyre manufacturers (it's just too close to the limit). The generic TR600HP design of tyre-valve was factory-fitted to certain Transit Mk 6 chassis (built from 2000 to 2006). This valve gained a reputation for premature failure on Transits and was replaced for the Transit Mk 7 (2006 to current day) by a different - and much sturdier-looking - design of valve that (as far as I'm aware) has not proved problematical. It's the latter Transit Mk 7 valve that I was referring to in my earlier posting, not the TR600HP. I've provided a couple of relevant links below and, in the first thread, there's a (JudgeMental) photo of a Transit MK 7 valve. Although this superficially resembles a TR600HP valve when viewed from outside the wheel-rim, the lower section of a 'Mk 7' valve that's out of sight inside the rim is very different to a TR600HP's, with the Mk 7's valve's metal stem passing right through the valve's rubber base to form a 'plate' beneath the base. When a Mk 6 Transit's factory-fitted TR600HP valve failed, it was common for its centre stem to detach completely from the its rubber base, but this would not happen with the Mk 7's valve. There are photos of the Transit Mk 6 and Mk 7 tyre valves on the MHF forum that make the differences obvious, but (presumably because I don't log on to the MHF website) I can't view them. TR600HP tyre valves are marketed widely, but the valve factory-fitted to Transit Mk 7s only seems to be available from Ford agencies. http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=4963&posts=27 http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9484&posts=21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-01-18 9:32 AM There are photos of the Transit Mk 6 and Mk 7 tyre valves on the MHF forum that make the differences obvious, but (presumably because I don't log on to the MHF website) I can't view them. TR600HP tyre valves are marketed widely, but the valve factory-fitted to Transit Mk 7s only seems to be available from Ford agencies. The pictures, for comparison, are below. TBF, whilst I can't vouch for the internals, the ones fitted to my Transit are like the full metal-cored ones pictures, in that they have the metal "conical" section at the bottom of the stem. Nonetheless, the advice given to Alanmac still stands - I suspect he will be running at pressures at which high pressure valves are recommended, and it would be wise to check whether he has them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Have you tried Kwik Fit , i got my conti,s there with steel valves. Just done a quick google for Continental Vanco size 215/70R/15CP price £97/70 each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Robinhood - 2012-01-18 10:11 AM Derek Uzzell - 2012-01-18 9:32 AM There are photos of the Transit Mk 6 and Mk 7 tyre valves on the MHF forum that make the differences obvious, but (presumably because I don't log on to the MHF website) I can't view them. TR600HP tyre valves are marketed widely, but the valve factory-fitted to Transit Mk 7s only seems to be available from Ford agencies. The pictures, for comparison, are below. TBF, whilst I can't vouch for the internals, the ones fitted to my Transit are like the full metal-cored ones pictures, in that they have the metal "conical" section at the bottom of the stem. Nonetheless, the advice given to Alanmac still stands - I suspect he will be running at pressures at which high pressure valves are recommended, and it would be wise to check whether he has them. Thanks for providing the photos. Just in case there's any confusion, the upper photo is of a TR600HP valve, but the lower photo is not. All TR600HP valves must conform to an agreed design standard irrespective of who manufactures them. The valve in the lower photo does not conform to that standard, so it cannot be termed a TR600HP. This is important, as the lower-photo valve is what's fitted to Transit Mk 7s and approved by Ford, but the upper-photo type of valve was fitted to Transit Mk 6s but (as I understand it) is no longer recommended by Ford. As I suggested earlier, it should be evident that the valve in the lower photo has a sturdier look to it, especially at its base. The TR600HP valves factory-fitted to my Transit Mk 6 (and, presumably, all other TR600HP valves) had nothing to stop the centre stem physically detaching from the rubber base - the stem was just a simple plain metal tube that penetrated the rubber base for a certain distance and was bonded to the base. The only apparent difference between my TR600HP valves and ordinary 'car' valves seemed to be in the shape of the rubber base. A tyre-fitter told me that the rubber used for the base was different, which may or may not be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Mickt - 2012-01-18 10:11 AM Have you tried Kwik Fit , i got my conti,s there with steel valves. Just done a quick google for Continental Vanco size 215/70R/15CP price £97/70 each. Many thanks! I've tried to book online, unfortunately the site won't let me. So I've booked by 'phone at £114 all in, this is the best price I've obtained, so many thanks you've saved me £24 on two tyres, the valves are also sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteCheyenneMan Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Are any of these High Pressure metal valves longer than normal? I have endless trouble holding tyre pressure, when screwing and unscrewing the compressor. My van's compressor uses a clip on connector which regularly unclips and rarely achieves a seal for pumping. I now use a Michelin compressor, which can be preset and which screws on to the valve. But because the valves are 'normal' length, possibly not HP valves, I still lose pressure when unscrewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teelin Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Greetings, I replaced tyres on my Pilote a few months ago at Kwik Fit where they did not have said valves in stock when I made my booking but had them when I brought the van in for fitting 24 hours later. They did not charge any extra over the original quote which was for 'ordinary' valves. There is quite a lot of information , including advising the use of - in motorhomes, on the Mitchelin website. Visually, these look a lot more substantial & robust compared to those on my car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neillking Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 WhiteCheyenneMan - 2012-01-20 11:29 AM Are any of these High Pressure metal valves longer than normal? When booking a local mobile man to fit a pair of winter tyres for me I asked for 'metal valves' and he asked me "long or short?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteCheyenneMan Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 neillking - 2012-01-20 5:03 PMWhiteCheyenneMan - 2012-01-20 11:29 AMAre any of these High Pressure metal valves longer than normal? When booking a local mobile man to fit a pair of winter tyres for me I asked for 'metal valves' and he asked me "long or short?"Sounds promising! Thanks Neill ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 WhiteCheyenneMan - 2012-01-20 11:29 AM Are any of these High Pressure metal valves longer than normal? I have endless trouble holding tyre pressure, when screwing and unscrewing the compressor. My van's compressor uses a clip on connector which regularly unclips and rarely achieves a seal for pumping. I now use a Michelin compressor, which can be preset and which screws on to the valve. But because the valves are 'normal' length, possibly not HP valves, I still lose pressure when unscrewing. This is a link to the section of the Alligator website that relates to 'clamp-in' tyre valves suitable for wheel-rims with a valve-hole diameter of 11.3mm (probably the most common hole-size). http://www.alligator-ventilfabrik.de/index.php?Passenger_car_metal_valves_for_valve_hole_diameter2 You'll note that the overall length of the valves varies from 31mm right up to 60mm and (if you click on the part number) that the design also varies. As I discovered when seeking to replace my Transit's snap-in valves with clamp-in ones, it's easy to pass rapidly beyond the expertise of the average tyre fitting outlet. As my tyre-fitter pal explained to me, "If you want me to fit tyre valves with a particular specification, then you'll have to source the valves yourself." It will be clear from the Alligator website that clamp-in valves are manufactured in a variety of designs and lengths, but tracking down and purchasing just 4 or 5 of a specific valve in the UK may prove difficult/impossible. I suspect that 42mm-44mm will be the common-or-gaden length of snap-in tyre valves likely to be fitted to motorhomes and that this will be the length of readily available equivalent clamp-in valves. You'll need to be careful not to pick a length of clamp-in valve that sticks well clear of the wheel rim just because it might facilitate tyre inflation. Unlike flexible rubber snap-in valves, clamp-in valves are rigid and (being brass) if you hit one against an obstruction (like a high kerb) it will quite likely snap. (I expect to lose some pressure from a tyre when removing the tyre-pump connector, so I just over-pump the tyre by a few psi and, once the connector has been removed, reduce the pressure to what I want. As tyre-pump gauges are usually hopeless, I'd need to do this anyway.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteCheyenneMan Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Thanks Derek!I sometimes lose more than "a few psi" when disconnecting the compressor! With a car I can push the connector towards the valve until it hisses and then pull it away. This minimises the loss of pressure very well. But I suppose that it's the much higher pressure in a MH that stops this working so well, in fact hardly at all.I'm going to have to unbolt a wheel to remove the trim and measure to see what length of valve could be accommodated. The Ducato trim itself could foul a long valve and is currently responsible for making connecting and disconnecting so difficult (Dear Marge, are my fingers too fat?).But an interesting link which I have added to my research! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteCheyenneMan Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 By the way, I can bend the tyre valves on our Volvo but not on the MH. Seems likely that they are metal cored HP valves then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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