IMPORTANT: FIRE RISK WARNING

[Guest Mel B]

Please read this - it could save your life quite literally! It has taken some time to write this piece as it has been a very upsetting experience so please do take the time to read it - it has been painful for me but I felt it was necessary to put a posting on the forum to try to ensure others don't suffer as we did and are continuing to do. We have just returned from 2 weeks in France and are extremely shocked - why? Because we had a gas explosion and fire in our motorhome. The reason for this posting is simply to ensure that no-one else suffers our fate. We were travelling back up to Calais/Dunkerque and stopped to make a cuppa, my husband went to turn on the gas at the locker, I went to the loo. When my husband got back in the van and, standing at the side, opened the cupboard at the base of the kitchen unit, there was an almighty bang and a flame shot 5ft in the air - this is not exaggerated. He quickly shut the cupboard and ran out of the van to the nearside, to turn off the gas in the locker. In the meantime I came out of the loo to find 8 inch flames lapping round the edge of the cupboard door and shouted for him as I didn't know where he was. I then exited the van with one dog and found our other elderly dog quivering on the driver's seat, I managed to open the door and retrieve the fire extinguisher which we store in the door pocket of the driver's door for easy access in an emergency. My husband by now had returned to the offside of the van and took the fire extinguisher from me and proceeded to smoother the exterior and interior of the cupboard to make sure that the fire was out. I grabbed both dogs and ran a safe distance away with them. This whole incident only took around 20 seconds in total. My husband has lost the hair on the front of his shins and has some minor tenderness, the cupboard is scorched and blistered, as is the worktop, electrical wiring, pipes etc and the side of the fridge adjacent to the cupboard has melted. The worst thing is that our elderly dog, Piggy, has had her whiskers, eyebrows and eye-lashes melted and lost, and her chest scorched as she must've been standing next to my husband immediately before the gas ignited. She must've been absolutely petrified. What happened? The main gas pipe feed, which runs in the cupboard to the isolating taps, had come out of it's coupling piece where a BBQ point had been fitted when we bought the 'van. The pipe had then left a clear gap of nearly half and inch between it and the coupling - when the gas was turned on it was literally like someone turning on a blow torch, opening the door to the cupboard appears to have allowed an influx of air which caused the gas to ignite causing the 5ft explosion and subsequent blow torch effect until the gas was turned off. I can't say much more at this stage as obviously there are legal implications etc relating to the liability for this incident but I must point out that we had been sensible and the habitation check had been carried out only 2 months ago (by the original supplying dealership) as recommended by the clubs, mags etc. I am sure you can imagine that we are very shaken and feel very lucky to be alive. If I hadn't gone to the loo it would've been me opening the cupboard and I would've been bending down over it, thus taking the full force of the blast, and I would not be here today to write this. Similarly, it could've been my husband also. My husband's quick action at turning off the gas saved our motorhome and probably our lives as the 'van would more than likely have exploded if left much longer. Thankfully, this happened whilst we were parked up - had we been asleep in the van, or travelling at the time with the gas on, we would not have had time to get out, it was that quick, even having the fire alarm would not have given us sufficient time to escape. I had fortunately used fire retardant material when I made covers for the front seats, and this helped stop the fire spreading immediately - the driver's seat is right next to the cupboard. But it wouldn't have stopped it completely as obviously the items in the cupboard and nearby were not fire retardant, simply the fact that I had them in plastic crates seems to have given us that extra few seconds as it stopped the flames getting to them immediately. I am so glad that I didn't store kitchen roll etc in there as that would have exacerbated the fire. My strong advice is to NEVER travel with the gas turned on under any circumstances, this wasn't the cause of our fire but it could so easily have been. If you have your van checked for safety make sure that it IS safe. If you have had a BBQ point or other gas accessory fitted, or one was already fitted to your van when you purchased it, get it checked out now, regardless of whether or not you have had a habitation check - get it done by an independently company if necessary - peace of mind is worth every penny you can pay, our peace of mind has been shattered and our love of motorhoming has been seriously marred. We can only hope that our's was a one-off and that no one else's installation is unsafe. Take care.

[Guest chris]

Frightening Mel. Hope you have both recovered. Take care

[Guest Neal]

I wish you both well Mel B. Try not to let this put you off. I can't help thinking that there had to be a source of ignition, just opening the cupboard door and introducing air would not cause actual ignition. Take care Neal

[Guest Peter Lawton-Harris]

Doesn't everybody know that YOU do NOT travel with gas valves open. If you didn't you do now. Take note. Turn it off. What caused the gas to ignite?

[Guest Mel B]

Peter Not sure if you've got the gist, fortunately we WERE NOT travelling with the gas turned on but if we had been ... We don't know what caused the gas to ignite, it is being investigated at present but it is possible that the sudden influx of hot air into the cool cupboard caused it to self-ignite, the only other thing I can think of is that I flushed the loo (electronic) and then washed my hands which would've meant an electrical connection of some type, but this would have been quite a way from the gas so is probably not likely. I'm now waiting for the dealership to send someone to examine the pipe, damage etc as well as the insurance company. As I get more info, I'll post it.

[Guest PeteC]

Hi Mel Thank goodness you both & dogs escaped safe,aleit a bit short of hair One hears about these things happening, but its always to someone else We only have three iems on gas: cooker, oven & fridge. The isolation valves to the items not inuse are allways turned OFF, until they are required Perhaps you should relocate (or add another) fire extinguisher in the accomodation area of the van, so that you can rech it from the cooker area quicker I have been looking for a site to place one in the cab area, for an emergency when we are driving. Your letter has renewed my intention to do that Hope you both recover from the experience and dont let it put you off travelling PS. perhaps this should be put in MMM's pages to warn those who do not use the forum - PeteC

[Guest Mike C]

Hello Mel, I can only reiterate what the others have said, thank goodness you are all safe. You appear to have had a very lucky escape in that your husband did not leave opening the cupboard any longer, allowing more gas to build up. He certainly took the right action in shutting the cupboard and quickly shutting off the gas although some may suggest getting you out first should have been the correct action. The possible clue to the explosion and fire lies in your comments. "The opening of the cupboard door" therebye introducing more air and changing the gas air content to a more explosive mixture and "...electrical wiring...etc., and the side of the fridge adjacent to the cupboard...". These are more likely to have been the source of ignition. I totally agree with Pete C, you should ask MMM to print your letter to warn others. Good luck and hope you are soon back enjoying the Motor Caravanning. Regards, Mike C.

[Guest Clive]

Several years ago we were using Camping Gas in our Dormobile. During the day, while parked up on site in France I declined to go for a walk with the rest of the familly prefering to take a nap. I could hear a roaring sound, it came from the back of the fridge. The flame was massive, the foot of the fridge was alight, the timber work was also starting to burn. I franticly disconnected the gas bottle and put out the fire. The foot was replaced with one fabricated from a backed bean tin. The problem was inside the gas regulator. It had failed internally resulting in full bottle pressure being applied to the outlet. Hence the massive flame. I have never trusted camping Gas regulators since. Food for thought?? They can fail anytime!

[Guest Bill]

Amen to what everybody else has said about turning off the gas when you are moving. There's another point: turn off the gas when you are asleep. A few years ago a friend of mine had a canal holiday in Holland with his girl-friend and her 13-year-old daughter. They had a gas leak one night which killed the girl-friend and daughter and left Iain brain-damaged. So how do you keep the 3-way running at night? My vote would be to chuck it out and get a compressor fridge.

[Guest Mel B]

Thanks for your good thoughts everyone, I do intend to make MMM aware of the events as a warning to more people but it is difficult to know what to do for best at the moment whilst the incident is being investigated as I don't want to compromise anything/anyone. I've been in touch with the dealership again today and a manager and a technician are coming to see us on Friday morning to see what's happened as they are taking it very seriously - as indeed they should. I'll keep you all informed of progress. Mel B

[Guest Brian Kirby]

Hello Mel Glad you're both safe and home. Too many pious lectures, so far, I think. You stopped, you turned the gas on, so it must have been off. You got that dead right. Gas/air mixture in cupboard at time just right for explosive ignition - pure chance. Could just as easily have been too little gas to ignite, or so much that only non explosive ignition resulted. Apparent reason for gas in cupboard: bad workmanship and poor maintenance checking. Properly installed pipes do not disconnect themselves. The habitation check should have included a pressure check on the gas installation. If this was done, unless the pipe has actually sheared inside the connector, it seems improbable in the extreme that the joint could have loosened, assuming it was ever tight. Wouldn't spend too much energy identifying the source of ignition. The gas simply shouldn't have been there to ignite. May be best to see if your insurance company wants to pursue the liability issue before you saddle your charger. If they do, ask them to keep you informed. Otherwise, get your local trading standards department on the case. If you are a member of either Camping or Craavan Clubs, see what their technical or legal advisors suggest. On the face of it, unless you have just been very unlucky indeed, someone owes you most, if not all, of a new motorhome. Good luck and regards Brian

[Guest Mel B]

PeteC - just re-read your posting, I'm concerned that you think that having the gas isolation taps turned off is sufficient - it isn't. These taps only stop the gas from them to the appliance, the problem we had was no the gas pipe immediately BEFORE these taps so having them turned off wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. Please ensure that the gas is turned off at the bottle when travelling, not just at the taps, obviously keeping the taps off for appliances not in use is a good second defence measure when you have to have the gas on but is no substitute for turning it off completely. We believe we have found the exact cause of the problem, which we will identify to you all after the dealership people have been down on Friday and it has been shown to and confirmed with them, but can't state it until then. Brian - noted your comments, have already taken some advice from Caravan Club and Legal Helpline sources and will be seeing what the dealership suggests when they come on Friday before we decide our final course of action. I wondered why my hyusband hadn't yelled when he saw the initial flame also, he was absolutely gob-smacked and couldn't speak! There's a first time for everything!

[Guest David Powell]

Hi Mel...Sorry and somewhat shocked by your nasty experience, but glad you are all OK. Now we know why we are not allowed to turn our gas on at UK motorway services. The cause of ignition was probably static electicity after a long run, and if you have metal door latches, but that is just idle speculation. I think most people cautiously worry about the dangers of gas. I know I do. Have often thought of running everything on parafin, including the fridge, like all the boats I have worked on over the years, but even that is not 100% safe. The main thing is you are all OK, apart from the shock of it all, which just doesn't stop when the fire is extinguished.

[Guest ALAN G]

Pleased to here you all recovering. Is there not a device called a Gaslow or something similar that shuts off the gas supply when an excessive flow of gas occurs? I'm sure I have heard of something similar in the past but not investigated it. Is there any experience among our members as to whether it would have helped prevent or reduce the effects of the disconnected pipe?

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

"Gaslow" is a company marketing a large range of LPG-related items, but I'm not sure if what you describe is on their list. However, the device certainly used to exist as I remember seeing it in a caravan dealer's accessory-shop (albeit a few years ago). From what I recall it was just a 'tube' with a stub on each end that you inserted into a low-pressure flexible gas-hose just downstream of an on-bottle regulator. Within the tube was a spring-loaded ball-bearing that, if the gas-flow reached an excessive level, overrode the spring and shut off the gas. Not sure if it would work with the high-demand gas systems of modern motorhomes and it would have been unsuitable for current UK fixed-regulator systems, but the principle is sound enough.

[Guest ALAN G]

Nearest I can find in the Gaslow range is the following; Gaslow Propane Adaptor Gaslow Propane Adaptor Propane Adaptor to fit in line between any Calor Gas Propane cylinder and standard Propane regulator combined with unique Gaslow gauge. Gives warning of leaks and low gas. Manufacturers Ref: 01-1610 This device seems to rely on the observation of a pressure guage.... which wouldn't be of help in the situation that started this discussion. It doesn't seem to have an auto shut off device. Most of the other devices are similar and are geared up to fixed regulators. Mine is an older van and I have always carried one Butane Calor Dumpy and one Camping Gaz both with their own regulators. Always shut off when driving and when away from the van.

[Guest Mike C]

Hello Derek and Alan, I seem to remember that the device you are referrring to was called The Gas Fuse and worked on the basis of cutting off the gas if back pressure was not maintained eg. Pipe became disconnected. Not sure who manufactured it or if it is still available. I last saw it used on Oxyacetylene gas cylinders about 10 years ago. Regards, Mike C.

[Guest Peter Sharpe]

FAO: Mel B Mel, please could you email me, as George and Val have lost your email address and would like to contact you. Thanks, Peter Sharpe peters@warnersgroup.co.uk

[Guest Tony S]

Sorry to hear of your gas explosion Mel. Just back from 3 weeks in southern Italy. The fridge was on permanently on gas ALL the time (even on the move) and no problems. In Germany it is legal to keep appliances running on gas whilst on the move. S Italy was, by the way, very hot, beautiful, noisy, dirty (overflowing dustbins everywhere) and - far.

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Some years ago I asked Truma about the legality of running their gas-heaters in moving vehicles. I was advised that (at that time) there were only two EC countries that had a blanket-ban regarding this method of gas-appliance operation - France and Denmark. The remaining EC countries either had no legislation prohibiting the practice generally, or had specific legislation permitting it. The UK is in the 1st category: it's not generally illegal to run gas-appliances in moving vehicles here except in certain instances (in tunnels, at service-stations, etc.) Germany is in the 2nd category: running gas-appliances in moving vehicles is specifically permitted (though with similar practical prohibitions to ours) provided that those appliances have been designed and certified for that purpose. Several companies (eg. Truma and Alde) manufacture particular gas-heaters that have this certification but, to the best of my knowledge, no gas-fridges have received approval for on-the-move usage. (Hardly surprising really, considering that the vast majority of leisure gas-fridges also have a 12v capability for 'en route' operation.) This segregation of appliance type is highlighted in German motorhome user-manuals. The "Preparing the vehicle" section of the Hobby manual instructs the user to "Close all taps and quick-action stop valves for gas devices. The only exception is for heaters that are to be used while driving." I don't know what the present EC position is in this respect (there's some arcane EN Annex that defines EC countries' regulations, but I've lost the reference.) and it's quite possible that additional EC countries nowadays prohibit the practice. Running gas-appliances in moving vehicles presents obvious inherent risks for the vehicle user, other road-users and the emergency services and leisure-magazines have reported a move to prohibit the practice throughout the EC. I understand that a concession may be offered to countries like Germany who currently permit it as long as an automatic device is fitted to new vehicles to shut off all gas-appliances in the event of an accident. I've driven my motorhome with the fridge running on gas (once, and not deliberately). I've also driven it with the gas-bottle not shut off, either because I'd forgotten to do it, thought I had already done it, or because the weather outside was so foul I chose to do it later. It's possible to buy (about £50) a 12v device that shuts off the gas automatically when the vehicle's engine is started that would prevent such occurrences. However, this device is fitted downstream of the regulator and still leaves the valve on the bottle open, which, in a heavy traffic-accident, is where much of the risk lies.

[Guest Mike C]

Hello Mel B, You are probably not ready to give the information on cause of the fire but while doing a search on Warranty I noticed that you made a number of postings about a gas leak on your Dometic Fridge Thermostat and having it fixed back in 2004. To put our minds at rest, was the fridge involved in the incident, if so what model and is there anything we should be aware of about leaks on it? Regards, Mike C.

[Guest Mel B]

Mike The fridge wasn't in any way to blame for the incident although it is now rather sorry looking and a bit melted from the flame which toasted it along the front side/edge of it melting the side of the door and part of the housing! The problem was where a 'T' joint had been inserted for the BBQ point and which had separated from the gas pipe. We are still trying to sort it all out with the dealership and insurers, loss recovery company etc and are waiting for a visit from yet another engineer but hope to have the culpability part laid to rest soon, once that is finally accepted we can then look at compensation, repair or replacement etc.

[Guest Mike C]

Hello Mel B, Thanks for the reply and information. Hope you get it all resolved soon and back on the road. Regards, Mike C.

[Guest Don Madge]

Hi Mel B Just picked this one up. It's all been said but glad to hear you are all OK. This has been our nightmare for years and until now have sometimes been guilty of travelling with the gas on, never again. I would like to post this on another couple of Motorhome lists/forums that I'm a member of. It will certainly open a few peoples eyes. Safe travelling Don

[Guest Norma]

Mel Wow - I'm still shaking. Gas gets left on - very rarely by accident. Never again. Just had a barby point fitted ... A very salutary lesson. Do hope you are all recovering well. Thoughts with you. Norma