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Improvements to leisure battery charging


DavieR

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Feeling the need for more amps for winter wild camping, I've been digging into the 12v habitation system in our van, a Ducato 2.3 130bhp Euro6. Presently we have a 100w solar panel with a cheap, non MPPT, regulator, two 110amp Numax batteries, an un-identified split relay system, and a CBE PC380-BS control panel, a CBE CB516 charger and a DS-520-AN distribution box.

 

We find that with good sunshine we can go for weeks without EHU. However, just two or three grey days in autumn has us running to a campsite. A long drive doesn't restore the batteries to a full charge either.

 

We don't run a TV, just a few LED lights, Truma E4 heater plus a fleece jumper, water pump, etc. We charge a phone daily but not a laptop. I consider our use low, but of course in winter with cold temperatures and long nights, our amps will add up. Plus solar will add only a little on a grey winters day in Scotland. We need to maximise our charge as much as possible!

 

I have been in touch with Allan for AandNCaravanServices who has been very helpful. I have taken more than enough of his time already but if he wants to get involved here, that would be great! I've been doing my research and learning but I'm a beginner when it comes to this. I don't want to pay someone to upgrade electrics without knowing what I should be asking for, and what results we might expect.

 

So here are a few things I've been thinking about.

 

1. Improving our Solar power is simple enough and something I think I can do myself. Fit a Votronic MPPT regulator, one with the capacity for a 200w panel that we might fit later on.

 

2. Allan suggested that a simple upgrade of the split relay and cables should help. I have no idea about the split relay, what type or size it is, or where it is, but the cabling is 5.6mm with a 50amp fuse. The cabling is neat where I can see it but I cannot trace it under the cab floor. This is not a DIY job for me. I've read about the new alternator voltage regulators, such as the Schaudt WA121525 as a replacement for the split relay.

 

3. Our two batteries are under the front seats, connected in parallel, with load and earth cables coming off the one battery. I've read that the ideal way is to have the load off one and the earth off another to balance the batteries and get the best out of both of them, but I've also been told it doesn't matter as well! This is something I could do myself with the help of a shunt from a battery monitor I'm thinking of fitting.

 

4. Given that we will probably be using a EHU when our batteries are fairly low, our mains charger (15amp) could do with being of a higher spec - a Victron Blue IP22 (30amp)? That should cope with the 220amp bank ok, I think.

 

5. The batteries? They have been in the van for two years and will be replaced as and when necessary. The van was a demonstrator for 6-8 months prior to our purchase, so I don't know what their early life was like.

 

Would appreciate knowing what you think about my ideas to improve our winter amps and what else I should consider.

 

There is one odd thing I don't understand. Our control panel shows +ve 3 amps going to our leisure batteries in the middle of the night! It is possible to recalibrate the panel to zero, but then I get a minus 0.7 amps reading when on EHU. Daytime amps are usually around +3 too.

 

If you have read this far, then thank you!

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Instructions for WA121525 say to use 10-16mm2 cables between alternator and the unit. You mention 5.6mm (diameter) Is that with or without insulation? Without insulation it is already a 16mm2 crosssection cable so not much to be done there. With insulation it's probably the standard 6mm2? With the relatively short distance to your leisure batteries you won't gain that much by upgrading but if done easily could be worth it.

 

Correct way to wire in parallel is + off one, - off other and is easy to do.

 

Charger upgrade from 15A on 220Ah bank is a good idea.

 

Batteries are likely gone if light use such as yours takes them so low the alternator can't cope. I would guess you're using 10-20Ah per day/night in winter so that should last more than 3 days.

 

The biggest puzzle is your last point and is something I would investigate first.

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You say 2 or 3 nights in winter has you running for a campsite and later in your post you are considering fitting a battery monitor. I wonder how you are currently determining the state of your leisure batteries, because I was in a similar position to you and only after fitting a Victron BMV did I realise that I had been overestimating the depletion of the batteries by some margin.

 

My first suggestion would be to fit a battery monitor which will give you a much more realistic idea of your power usage, and you will have a better idea of where to look for improvements from there.

 

Our pattern of consumption seems to be very similar to yours, with 2 x 90 Ah Numax batteries, LED lights, recharging two mobile phones daily, no TV off grid if we feel the need to conserve power, a Truma combi 4E and Isotherm condenser fridge. I fitted an additional solar panel earlier this year doubling our solar capacity to 200W, and changed the Votronic PWM controller for a Votronic MPPT.

 

We managed a month touring in September with only one day on EHU, and another 2 weeks in the Yorkshire Dales last month, again with one day on EHU about hallway through. I have the BMW set to 160Ah battery capacity so that the SOC readings are likely to be pessimistic, and the lowest state of our batteries over these two trips was 72% charge remaining.

 

Another trick I use to extend our time off grid is to pack several freezer blocks in the freezer compartment of the fridge. Each evening I distribute them around the main fridge compartment and turn the fridge thermostat down a notch, moving them back to the freezer compartment and turning the fridge up again the following morning. I find our fridge very efficient. I've never had the thermostat set above 2.6 even in very hot weather in France and it always keeps the contents of the freezer compartment frozen. In the summer heat the compressor runs for about 20 minutes in every hour (2 x 10 minutes run time). A few weeks ago in overcast and much colder Yorkshire I timed it again and found it running for only 12 minutes per hour (2 x 6 minutes running).

 

Before fitting the BMV though, I thought that 2 nights off EHU was the most I dare risk without constant sunshine, but after fitting it I realised that we were overestimating battery discharge by quite a margin, hence suggesting that should be your first step.

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spirou - 2018-11-12 3:59 AM

 

Instructions for WA121525 say to use 10-16mm2 cables between alternator and the unit. You mention 5.6mm (diameter) Is that with or without insulation? Without insulation it is already a 16mm2 crosssection cable so not much to be done there. With insulation it's probably the standard 6mm2? With the relatively short distance to your leisure batteries you won't gain that much by upgrading but if done easily could be worth it.

 

Its 10awg, so 5.26mmsq. But not much to be gained from an upgrade? I read that 10awg is good for 30amps but it's protected by a 50amp fuse? I really should have paid more attention in Physics class!

 

Correct way to wire in parallel is + off one, - off other and is easy to do.

 

Thanks, this I will do.

 

Batteries are likely gone if light use such as yours takes them so low the alternator can't cope. I would guess you're using 10-20Ah per day/night in winter so that should last more than 3 days.

 

In October our control panel can show our batteries at 12.3v 70%ish last thing at night and we are very careful with our 12v use. That's over 60amps if the batteries are in good condition, right?

 

 

The biggest puzzle is your last point and is something I would investigate first.

 

Is it possible for the van battery to be charging leisure batteries? How can I check for that? It could be a faulty monitor but it is a brand new one, replaced on warranty. The old one died for an unknown reason but I seem to remember the same +ve amps at night. When I think about it I can only remember seeing negative amps once or twice - in the evening with the heater and lights on (?)

 

Many thanks spirou.

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Just a quick point.

 

Before you fit any monitor, do a quick compare of your voltage by checking the control panel readout, the voltage at a 12 volt socket (or two) and then check at the battery terminals.

 

My Burstner control panel reads lower than the actual battery voltage, I have just put this down to long runs of thin wiring giving the difference. Once I knew that the actual Leisure batteries voltage was slightly higher, I could get a more accurate idea of the state of the batteries.

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Thanks Deneb,

 

Fitting the monitor will be the first step as I'd originally planned. It was in working out how to fit it I discovered the thin cables and the way the leisure batteries where linked. I just kept reading, discovered MPPT regulators, info on battery charger capacity vs battery bank amps, etc. A whole can of worms!

 

We have just gone two months off grid except for one night on EHU, but that was in a very sunny autumn. But our CBE monitor shows reduced voltage on a nightly basis, 12.3v is common. I don't know for certain but it doesn't bode well for a couple of weeks in the north of Scotland next January. But you are right, I'll fit the monitor for some accurate figures.

 

Interesting tips regarding fridge use. However, we don't use it! Well, we don't switch it on, 12v or gas, it's basically a store box for us. That could be different in summer, but that's when our van is parked up. So our alternator charge should be optimal, yes?

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747 - 2018-11-12 9:41 AM

 

Just a quick point.

 

Before you fit any monitor, do a quick compare of your voltage by checking the control panel readout, the voltage at a 12 volt socket (or two) and then check at the battery terminals.

 

My Burstner control panel reads lower than the actual battery voltage, I have just put this down to long runs of thin wiring giving the difference. Once I knew that the actual Leisure batteries voltage was slightly higher, I could get a more accurate idea of the state of the batteries.

 

Thanks, good idea. I really am a beginner at this kind of thing but I can understand that.

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Hi, we have 300 watts of solar panels, 2, 100 amp Youasa L36-EFB batteries, a Victron 30 amp Bluetooth charger. Voltronic Mppt 350 regulator, Solar computer with shunt. This allows monitoring of amps in and out.

Also have a 2000 watt psw inverter that runs off the ENGINE battery. This allows me to charge the leisure batteries when driving at a far higher rate than the standard setup. I also run the ses fridge on mains this way saves hammering the 12 volt side and allows the temp control to work. If it was on 12 volt it takes up to 17 amps regardless of fridge temp.

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I'm beginning to suspect your van is wired in much the same weird (wrong) way as mine :-D and you might actually be seeing one battery charging the other. In my case the leisure battery has a higher resting voltage than the engine battery and if left connected, will obviously be trying to balance. The voltage sensing relay is supposed to cut the connection, but if resting voltage is higher than cut off voltage (probably 12.8V) then it can continue for quite some time. The correct way to wire it would be based on the D+ signal so the connection only exists when the alternator is spinning, not a preset voltage at either battery.

 

6mm2 is the standard wire I've seen in most installations and it is as specified by Schaudt for the EBL208 electroblock. Probably the same for CBE. But the funny thing is, if you look at the (optional) WA121525 charge booster instructions, those same wires are now specified as 10-16mm2. If your wires are only between the engine battery at your feet and the leisure batteries under the seat then the voltage drop can't be that bad over the max 2m distance. An upgrade to 10-16 will have an effect but if changing them would be a big job then I'd be thinking about it after any other upgrade. You can simply and quickly test what the difference would be by attaching some jump leads.

 

I'm still working towards solving the wiring mess in my van so I know how it feels when you're looking at a rats nest of wires and relays and trying to figure out what goes where and why.

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Hi Davie,

 

You ask so much that I hardly know where to start, and at the moment I am struggling with one hand swathed in bandages following a minor operation.

 

I have not looked up your CBE PC380 control panel, but you state that it gives habitation current indication, the accuracy of which you query in your closing remarks.

 

To start with the existing split charge relay. It is integral with the DS 520 distribution board and is the square black device, measuring 26.2mm on each side. It is from, the Tyco Power Relay F7 series, rated at 70A, but at only 23C. The rating reduces as ambient temperature increases. I have not found an entry for contact resistance, but an initial voltage drop of 10/300mV at 10A is quoted. The upper figure of 300mV would have a significant negative effect on battery charging. If you wish to parallel this relay with a larger one, it should effectively be connected between B1+ (starter battery), and CH+ on the DS520. (Connection to habitation battery B+ would bypass the current sensor in the DS520.)

 

I have not had any problems with battery current indication, after adjusting to read -0.5A with only the control panel energised.

 

You do not state what sort of MH your vehicle is. On my PVC space for extra relays and thicker cables is limited, but I have managed to increase some of the cables from the original 6mm to 16mm. Others have increased to 25mm. As regards paralleling the batteries with the +ve to one and the -ve to the other, fine if the batteries are side by side, but otherwise difficult, and could increase effective cable length. I chose to favour the more remote battery with larger cables, and managed also to shorten the length by making a route directly between the seat bases. On my vehicle the B1 & B2 fuses were standard blade. I chose to upgrade to maxi blade, with an individual fuse for each habitation battery. With the benefit of hindsight, I could perhaps of used midi, or strip fuses.

 

Due to the difficulty in running larger cables, I decided to fit a small B2B unit, a CTEK D250S (20A output),

but the installation was complex, and could be expensive, if done commercially.

 

The CBE system uses a third output wire "S" signal from the charger to indicate that that the mains is connected, and to allow maintenance charging of the starter battery,B1. If you install an alternative charger, you may well loose these facilities.

 

Alan

 

 

 

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Alanb - 2018-11-12 10:33 AM

You do not state what sort of MH your vehicle is.

 

We have a PVC.

 

Thanks Alan, that a lot of info, most of which I can understand, and is very helpful. What is CH+? I can't find it in the DS520 manual.

 

Regarding the linking of the batteries, this is my thinking. The battery under the drivers seat (No1) has all the connections. The two cables linking the two batteries are left as is (they run between the seats and I have ID'd the -ve, but not the +ve). I then run a heavier cable from the passenger seat battery (No2) to the battery monitor shunt which will be sited next to Battery No.1. There are 7 -ve cables running from Battery No1 with little slack, so the shunt has to be there. Is that good to go?

 

You mention running a split relay in parallel. Could a Schault WA121525 be fitted as a replacement?

 

Ah, I didn't know about the "S" signal on the charger. There is one on the larger CBE522 so, whilst not being the better charger on paper, it might be the best option.

 

Thanks again, and take care of that hand.

 

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spirou - 2018-11-12 9:55 AM

 

I'm beginning to suspect your van is wired in much the same weird (wrong) way as mine :-D and you might actually be seeing one battery charging the other. In my case the leisure battery has a higher resting voltage than the engine battery and if left connected, will obviously be trying to balance. The voltage sensing relay is supposed to cut the connection, but if resting voltage is higher than cut off voltage (probably 12.8V) then it can continue for quite some time. The correct way to wire it would be based on the D+ signal so the connection only exists when the alternator is spinning, not a preset voltage at either battery.

 

6mm2 is the standard wire I've seen in most installations and it is as specified by Schaudt for the EBL208 electroblock. Probably the same for CBE. But the funny thing is, if you look at the (optional) WA121525 charge booster instructions, those same wires are now specified as 10-16mm2. If your wires are only between the engine battery at your feet and the leisure batteries under the seat then the voltage drop can't be that bad over the max 2m distance. An upgrade to 10-16 will have an effect but if changing them would be a big job then I'd be thinking about it after any other upgrade. You can simply and quickly test what the difference would be by attaching some jump leads.

 

I'm still working towards solving the wiring mess in my van so I know how it feels when you're looking at a rats nest of wires and relays and trying to figure out what goes where and why.

 

Spirou,

 

If correctly connected, the CBE system uses an ignition switch controlled supply, and monitors that voltage to generate a simulated D+. This simulated D+ is used to operate the split charge and fridge 12V relays. If the ignition is OFF, the batteries should be separated. The simulated D+ supply is available for external use. (On my PVC the input for the simulated D+ was incorrectly connected to D+.)

 

6mm cable is rated at about 50A from cable heating considerations. It seems that many MH builders/converters take little account of voltage drop when sizing the cables.

 

Alan

 

 

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weldted - 2018-11-12 9:48 AM

 

Hi, we have 300 watts of solar panels, 2, 100 amp Youasa L36-EFB batteries, a Victron 30 amp Bluetooth charger. Voltronic Mppt 350 regulator, Solar computer with shunt. This allows monitoring of amps in and out.

Also have a 2000 watt psw inverter that runs off the ENGINE battery. This allows me to charge the leisure batteries when driving at a far higher rate than the standard setup. I also run the ses fridge on mains this way saves hammering the 12 volt side and allows the temp control to work. If it was on 12 volt it takes up to 17 amps regardless of fridge temp.

 

I'd read about your setup before and thanks for posting it again. How would your setup compare to running, say a Schault WA121525? I get the advantages when running the fridge, but as I said elsewhere we don't run it.

 

Thanks

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spirou - 2018-11-12 9:55 AM

 

I'm beginning to suspect your van is wired in much the same weird (wrong) way as mine :-D and you might actually be seeing one battery charging the other. In my case the leisure battery has a higher resting voltage than the engine battery and if left connected, will obviously be trying to balance. The voltage sensing relay is supposed to cut the connection, but if resting voltage is higher than cut off voltage (probably 12.8V) then it can continue for quite some time. The correct way to wire it would be based on the D+ signal so the connection only exists when the alternator is spinning, not a preset voltage at either battery.

 

6mm2 is the standard wire I've seen in most installations and it is as specified by Schaudt for the EBL208 electroblock. Probably the same for CBE. But the funny thing is, if you look at the (optional) WA121525 charge booster instructions, those same wires are now specified as 10-16mm2. If your wires are only between the engine battery at your feet and the leisure batteries under the seat then the voltage drop can't be that bad over the max 2m distance. An upgrade to 10-16 will have an effect but if changing them would be a big job then I'd be thinking about it after any other upgrade. You can simply and quickly test what the difference would be by attaching some jump leads.

 

I'm still working towards solving the wiring mess in my van so I know how it feels when you're looking at a rats nest of wires and relays and trying to figure out what goes where and why.

 

Did you manage to fix your "weird" wiring then?

 

Thanks for the tip on using the jump leads.

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spirou - 2018-11-12 3:59 AM

 

Correct way to wire in parallel is + off one, - off other and is easy to do.

 

What am I misunderstanding here?

 

If you look at the two diagrams, a far as I can see, with two batteries in parallel the load is effectively connected to the +ve and –ve of both batteries simultaneously in either wiring configuration. So why would one be correct and the other incorrect?

parallel-batteries1.jpg.ccb6dbbd7259695a5e3f76998c20c76e.jpg

parallel-batteries2.jpg.9d04dee35f3750e2735d50498f2ed7d6.jpg

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BruceM - 2018-11-12 12:24 PM

 

spirou - 2018-11-12 3:59 AM

 

Correct way to wire in parallel is + off one, - off other and is easy to do.

 

What am I misunderstanding here?

 

If you look at the two diagrams, a far as I can see, with two batteries in parallel the load is effectively connected to the +ve and –ve of both batteries simultaneously in either wiring configuration. So why would one be correct and the other incorrect?

 

As far as I understand it and in layman' terms, the batteries are not balanced.. More load comes from battery A and on recharging, battery B gets less. I guess they then age differently and these imbalances get exacerbated.

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Bruce, battery B has a higher resistance because of the extra cabling to it.

It might only be tiny, but can make a big difference because electricity takes the easiest path with the lower resistance.

In the first image battery 'A' does the lions share of the work.

 

Also, the battery with the lowest resistance will charge up faster/fully. So again that will favour battery 'A' meaning that part way through charging, it will be in the best position to supply the next burst of power.

 

 

 

It might only be very small resistance 50 milliOhms, but it's a key value. That is why you should always pair batteries that are the same age, size, technology, etc as resistance will be a factor with all those things.

 

Even a battery just 6 months old will have a different resistance to a newly manufactured one, hence the importance of buying a proper matched pair from the same batch, which Alpha batteries now undertake to do.

 

 

 

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DavieR - 2018-11-12 12:01 PM

 

Alanb - 2018-11-12 10:33 AM

You do not state what sort of MH your vehicle is.

 

We have a PVC.

 

Thanks Alan, that a lot of info, most of which I can understand, and is very helpful. What is CH+? I can't find it in the DS520 manual.

 

Regarding the linking of the batteries, this is my thinking. The battery under the drivers seat (No1) has all the connections. The two cables linking the two batteries are left as is (they run between the seats and I have ID'd the -ve, but not the +ve). I then run a heavier cable from the passenger seat battery (No2) to the battery monitor shunt which will be sited next to Battery No.1. There are 7 -ve cables running from Battery No1 with little slack, so the shunt has to be there. Is that good to go?

 

You mention running a split relay in parallel. Could a Schault WA121525 be fitted as a replacement?

,

Ah, I didn't know about the "S" signal on the charger. There is one on the larger CBE522 so, whilst not being the better charger on paper, it might be the best option.

 

Thanks again, and take care of that hand.

 

To answer your first question the CBE DS520 has four M6 terminal studs. These studs are labelled B1+, B2+, CH+, and -ve, or something similar, but not perhaps in that order. (Should be shown in CBE manual.)

The mains charger +ve should be connected to CH+. It is then internally connected via the current sensing device to the B2+ terminal. Logic demands that the supply side of the various load fuses must be connected to the CH+ side of the current sensing device. I use this term as it does not look like a shunt, and I believe it to be a Hall effect device as is used in clip on DC ammeters. If your DS520 does not have four M6 terminals, I would be pleased to add that t my knowledge base.

 

I cannot fault your proposed method of connecting a shunt. You will have at least made a start with thicker cabling, but I would consider changing the LHS positive battery cable at the same stage.

 

The original installation in my PVC had everything paralleled at the RHS battery clamps. The negative clamp dropped off the wires on the first occasion that I removed the clamp from the battery. I added an M8 negative post by using an existing tapped hole in the seat turntable base. I also added a positive connection point. The original connections at the battery clamps were via M6 clamping screws direct ly onto the cable strands. Cable ends were bound with suitable plain or tinned copper wire. The round head original cable clamping screws were replaced with cheese headed screws. This enabled easier tightening of connections.

 

I am not familiar with the Schaudt relay, but may I suggest Allan's (Aandncaravans) website. I believe that Arthur49 has fitted an extra relay to his current MH. The relay suggested by Allan has M5? studs for the contact terminals. Such a relay could be operated from the simulated D+ male blade terminal of the DS520, that is terminal FA4 about half way down RHS of board when M6 studs are at the bottom.

 

Hope that this helps,

 

Alan

 

 

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CBE control-panels and distribution boxes are often ‘bespoke’ to a specific make of motorhome and this is usually evident from a suffix to the component’s identifier (eg. DS520-RA would indicate a DS520 distribution box for a Rapido motorhome).

 

I don’t know what (if any) relevance the “BS” and “AN” suffixes on DavieR's CBE panel and box have, and it seems that CBE might nowadays expect a PC380 panel to be paired with a DS470 distribution box (As covered in this 2017 model-year Frankia manual)

 

https://www.frankia.com/fileadmin/user_upload/2017_Frankia_Bedienungsanleitung_E.pdf

 

There are a couple of earlier form discussions about amperage readouts on CBE control-panels (or rather the lack of those readouts). It seems that a ‘shunt’ is often not fitted, but DavieR’s Shire motorhome must have a shunt as amperage readouts (albeit peculiar ones) are being provided on the control-panel.

 

I’d take Deneb’s approach and fit a ‘proper’ battery monitor that would provide credible and provable amperage readouts. If the battery monitor’s readouts and the control-panel’s readouts then don’t match, ignore the latter’s.

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Thanks everyone, its all helping.

 

Alan and Derek. I think Derek is right, there must be a difference with my "AN" suffix DS520, if only in the naming of the studs. I have -B2, +B2, + OUT, +B1.

 

Ok, here's a stupid question. Why is the blue wire from the charger on +B2 and the wire from the solar regulator on +OUT. They are both power sources after all. Attached is the Connections instructions for the DS520AN

FullSizeRender.jpg.c6da8b4d20462f6b0198bb3e4fd0b6d0.jpg

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Hi Davie,

 

Got my hand unwrapped now. Typing much easier.

 

With reference to Derek's observations my CBE distribution board is also a DS520AN. I was writing from memory, but as regards my mention of the CH+ terminal stud, this equates to the OUT+ terminal in your handbook. My control panel is a PC200 IH, which will be specific in some way (logo at least) to IH Motorhomes.

 

It is very possible that Derek's implied suggestion of incorrect pairing of control panel and distribution board could have a bearing on the observed current readings.

 

In answer to what I would say is not "A stupid question", I would suggest incorrect wiring. As the manual states the mains charger positive should be connected to your OUT + terminal. My DS520AN has a dedicated 20A fuse for solar, but I have utilised it for other purposes. Your solar regulator is correctly connected.

 

The blue +ve, and grey -ve leads for the mains charger could be confusing, so when I moved the charger a few feet, I spliced in conventional red and black 6mm cables.

 

DS520 distribution boards are not so common as the DS300 series of which there are many variants, hence there is very little published information about them, including photos.

 

Alan

 

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Alanb - 2018-11-12 3:51 PM

 

Hi Davie,

 

In answer to what I would say is not "A stupid question", I would suggest incorrect wiring. As the manual states the mains charger positive should be connected to your OUT + terminal. My DS520AN has a dedicated 20A fuse for solar, but I have utilised it for other purposes. Your solar regulator is correctly connected.

 

Mhmmmmm? So what could be the outcome of this "incorrect wiring"? Would it explain the nighttime +ve amps? Might it contribute to our other charging issues?

 

I do feel we are getting somewhere. Thanks.

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DavieR - 2018-11-11 10:42 PM

 

............................

There is one odd thing I don't understand. Our control panel shows +ve 3 amps going to our leisure batteries in the middle of the night! It is possible to recalibrate the panel to zero, but then I get a minus 0.7 amps reading when on EHU. Daytime amps are usually around +3 too.

 

If you have read this far, then thank you!

 

Davie,

 

Just re-reading this bit. With the incorrect connection of the mains battery charger, battery charging current wil not pass through the current sensor, and therefore will not be shown. What you are being shown is an indication of the load current supplied charger e.g. LED lighting.

 

You may wish to try moving the blue positive charger output lead to OUT+, where it should be.

 

BEFORE ATTEMPTING THIS, DISCONNECT BOTH SERVICE/HABITATION BATTERY NEGATIVES, REMOVE FUSE (50A ?) FROM STARTER BATTERY CONNECTION, AND SWITCH OFF MAINS CHARGER, OR SAFER DISCONNECT EHU. ALSO SOLAR PANEL SHOULD BE DISCONNECTED FROM REGULATOR.

 

Sorry about the capitals, but these are safety precautions. You may need a torch/lantern to see with.

 

After changing the charger connection point, try a recalibration, and see what happens to your battery current indicatons.

 

As regards the CH+ terminal I was WRONG. Now that I have got more use of my hand, I have been able to check. I have to admit that both my panel and the CBE handbook show the M6 stud in question as OUT+. Somehow in the past I had recorded it on one of my schematics as CH+, hence my error. My apologies to all who may have been mislead.

 

Alan

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Alanb - 2018-11-12 5:25 PM

 

DavieR - 2018-11-11 10:42 PM

 

............................

There is one odd thing I don't understand. Our control panel shows +ve 3 amps going to our leisure batteries in the middle of the night! It is possible to recalibrate the panel to zero, but then I get a minus 0.7 amps reading when on EHU. Daytime amps are usually around +3 too.

 

If you have read this far, then thank you!

 

Just re-reading this bit. With the incorrect connection of the mains battery charger, battery charging current wil not pass through the current sensor, and therefore will not be shown. What you are being shown is an indication of the load current supplied charger e.g. LED lighting.

 

Can you run that by me again? At night, on EHU or not, with no load at all I can see +3amps. EHU or not, either way I can knock that down to near zero if I put every light on in the van.

 

You may wish to try moving the blue positive charger output lead to OUT+, where it should be.

 

I will, and thanks for the instructions.

 

After changing the charger connection point, try a recalibration, and see what happens to your battery current indicatons.

 

But before I do this can I check to see if these +3 amps are real or just the monitor acting strange. If they are real they are must be coming from the van battery - is that possible?

 

As regards the CH+ terminal I was WRONG. Now that I have got more use of my hand, I have been able to check. I have to admit that both my panel and the CBE handbook show the M6 stud in question as OUT+. Somehow in the past I had recorded it on one of my schematics as CH+, hence my error. My apologies to all who may have been mislead.

 

No worries! I might not have looked hard at the connections and spotted the wiring if you has not written CH+.

 

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DavieR - 2018-11-12 7:14 PM

 

Alanb - 2018-11-12 5:25 PM

 

DavieR - 2018-11-11 10:42 PM

 

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There is one odd thing I don't understand. Our control panel shows +ve 3 amps going to our leisure batteries in the middle of the night! It is possible to recalibrate the panel to zero, but then I get a minus 0.7 amps reading when on EHU. Daytime amps are usually around +3 too.

 

If you have read this far, then thank you!

 

Just re-reading this bit. With the incorrect connection of the mains battery charger, battery charging current wil not pass through the current sensor, and therefore will not be shown. What you are being shown is an indication of the load current supplied charger e.g. LED lighting.

 

1. Can you run that by me again? At night, on EHU or not, with no load at all I can see +3amps. EHU or not, either way I can knock that down to near zero if I put every light on in the van.

 

You may wish to try moving the blue positive charger output lead to OUT+, where it should be.

 

I will, and thanks for the instructions.

 

After changing the charger connection point, try a recalibration, and see what happens to your battery current indicatons.

 

2. But before I do this can I check to see if these +3 amps are real or just the monitor acting strange. If they are real they are must be coming from the van battery - is that possible?

 

As regards the CH+ terminal I was WRONG. Now that I have got more use of my hand, I have been able to check. I have to admit that both my panel and the CBE handbook show the M6 stud in question as OUT+. Somehow in the past I had recorded it on one of my schematics as CH+, hence my error. My apologies to all who may have been mislead.

 

No worries! I might not have looked hard at the connections and spotted the wiring if you has not written CH+.

 

Davie.

 

For my convenience I have added numbers to the points upon which you have requested clarification, I will deal with them in order.

 

1. This is the situation as I understand it. Your mains charger is currently connected to the B2+ terminal. Charger output current flowing into the battery will not have to pass through the current sensor device, and will not be indicated on the control panel. However current to supply the control panel and any loads will have to pass through the sensor and should register as a discharge current when the battery is probably taking charge. (The current sensor is connected between the OUT+, and the B2+ terminals. On my DS520AN the sensor is above those terminals, encapsulated in blue plastic, with a central hole going up and down (vertically). You can see the thick wire looping out of the pcb and passing through this hole.)

 

2. Yes you can check but I do not think that the indication will mean much. If the 3A are real, where are they going? It would be interesting to compare the reading with that of a DC clip on ammeter.

 

With electronic measurements, you can have two adjustments. The first, which I think is what the "calibration" does is to move the zero point, like setting the needle on an analogue meter. The second is range or slope. I am using these terms loosely, but what I mean is what does for example does10mV output from a sensor or shunt mean in terms of actual current. It could be 1A, 5A, 10A, 20A depending on the design. If the DS520 and the PC380 are not compatible in this respect, there would be a scaling error, the PC380 could be getting too little or possibly far too much signal input.

 

You should note that CBE DS300 series 12V distribution boards which are quite common, are not fitted with a current sensor, and can only give B2 battery current indication, if a shunt is fitted in the battery negative connection, as you are proposing. It may be that the DS520 sensor output is conditioned to give the same output as a shunt, but I have no evidence to support this suggestion.

 

Alan

 

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