Lubricating AL-KO rear axle

[plwsm2000]

I just read in my AL-KO chassis manual that the rear axle must be lubricated every 20,000km or 12 months in order to preserve the warranty.

Apparently, some are maintenance free if there is a "CA" designation on the AL-KO axle type plate on the right-hand axle housing.

I understood that the Fiat service interval is 48,000km or every two years so it seems I need to get an interim service every 12 months and the AL-KO book stamped. Is this common knowledge?

 

[Steve928]

Yes, it's common knowledge.

Some good discussion in this earlier 7 page thread:

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/alko-amc-rear-axle-s-GREASING/45650/

[Derek Uzzell]

plwsm2000

 

I’m not sure how the question in your last sentence can be satisfactorily answered...

 

I know that there are two types of motorhome AL-KO axle - ’grease-free' or ‘need-to-grease’. I’m also aware that the Warranty Conditions in AL-KO’s handbook for AMC chassis

 

http://www.al-ko.co.uk/edit/files/handbooks/amc-handbook.pdf

 

state (for ’need-to-grease’ axles) "Lubrication must be carried out every 20,000 Km or once a year, which ever comes sooner”. The AL-KO handbook also includes a couple of pages onn which ‘servicing’ of an AMC chassis can be recorded.

 

I would have thought it was fairly well understood that most motorhome AL-KO axles need regular greasing (though it may be less appreciated that some axles are ‘grease-free’). There’s plenty of on-line references to that requirement

 

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=motorhome+al-ko+axle+lubrication&*

 

and the subject comes up quite often in motorhome magazines.

 

I’m told (by a reliable Fiat Professional agent) that the current Ducato scheduled servicing intervals are initially 30,000 miles or 24 months (whichever comes first) after the date of first-registration, and then 30,000 miles or 12 months (whichever comes first). This seems at odds with the servicing regimen information in the Ducato Owner Handbook, but I’ve no reason to doubt what the agent told me.

 

There have been warnings on-line and in motorhome magazines that greasing an AL-KO chassis will not be part of a standard Fiat service and may well not be included within a ‘habitation service’. Consequently it has been advised that owners of motorhomes with a ‘need-to-grease’ AL-KO axle who don’t DIY-service the vehicle should ensure that they specify that this task be carried out when the motorhome is serviced.

 

I don’t know what people with AL-KO chassis motorhomes do about AL-KO’s annual greasing requirement within the 24-months Fiat servicing requirement. My 2015 Rapido motorhome does not demand ‘habitation servicing’ as part of the Rapido warranty and its Ducato base was serviced at 23 months after first UK registration. My 640F model does not have an AL-KO chassis, but if it did I would have greased it myself and recorded in the AL-KO handbook when I had done this. I certainly would not have taken the vehicle to a ‘specialist workshop’ after 12 months just to get the axle greased and an official stamp in the handbook.

[hagrid]

I have a full service every two years with an oil change every year, at that time the axel is greased.

The habitation service (sic) does not include greasing the axel apparently although, it appears as an item on the check list. I have personally given up on the annual habitation check.

 

It is worth noting that, the axel needs to be greased with the weight off the axel, so you need to be able to support both sides of the chassis with the wheels off the ground.

[keninpalamos]

Please don't take offence. Axel is a "jump" related to ice skating, axle on the other hand.....

[Robinhood]

hagrid - 2017-03-23 9:59 AM

 

It is worth noting that, the axel needs to be greased with the weight off the axel, so you need to be able to support both sides of the chassis with the wheels off the ground.

 

Historic advice from Al-Ko has been that (despite documentation that might be interpreted otherwise) it is sufficient to raise each wheel alternately (off the ground), and grease the sides separately.

[Derek Uzzell]

Advice is offered here that, before greasing an AL-KO axle, both of that axle’s wheels should be raised clear of the ground.

 

http://www.motorhometour.co.uk/blogs/miscellaneous/greasing-lubricating-al-ko-rear-chassis-motorhome/

 

“3. Next you need to jack up both sides of the rear axle so both wheels are off the ground. This ensures the new grease is pumped all around the inside of the axle.”

 

In fact AL-KO’s own advice is (my capitalisatiion)

 

“IDEALLY jack the motorhome so both wheels are off the ground. The grease nipples are situated on the axle tube.”

 

As the nipples are (or should be!) positioned on the axle so that grease enters BETWEEN the two plain bearings at each axle-end, it’s difficult to understand why it should be imperative that both wheels be off the ground. As Robinhood says, alternately raising each wheel clear of the ground (so that the axle’s trailing-arm is at maximum ‘droop’) and pumping in grease through the nipple at that axle-end should be perfectly adequate.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Splendid hagrid.Every year ducato oil and alko greasing till you see the grease coming out of the out board mud seal. Axle fully unloaded is the only way alko officially approve. In case of alc level controller and x2- x4 air suspension ordered ex alko- assembly factory New it is in their type approval stage 2. This you can see in their in their fiat ducato data base and all other options. The axle is called BTR-AMC. BT is a former version. No idea what the type means. Since they are made in alko louhans france in secret. In case of the above options the code Ca is added whatever that means. In that case you will get a needle bearing out board and a outer mud seal not a inner seal because their is no grease, and one inboard SKF bush on the end of the swing arm. Only in that case you are grease free because 90 percent of the load wheel goes to chassis and torsion bars are removed. You have still two weak torsion bars to take 10 percent but their function is to keep the swing arm in place. Alko claims a grease free axle as an option without the options but that is something for discussions. The ultimate you now can buy from alko is their chassis and air suspension and their latest hydraulic feets H4Y. All alko original.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

For the older ones the alko grease free axle whit a needle bearing and one bush is exactly the same as used by Volkswagen beetle. However VW used grease and said perfectly where the grease should be.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

It is the weakest point of alko. Not their chassis it self. Every day in the alko service centers they see the grease problem and have more than 0.5 play in their swing arms. These bushes look like potato ships. Any way i do not like their presentation in detail. Only their patents give some detail but mostly invented by others.

[plwsm2000]

Sorry - I should have searched a bit deeper before posting. This is my first motorhome and this topic was not mentioned during the hand-over (one of many topics unfortunately!).

However, even if this is a DIY job, how do you get the AL-KO log book stamped? It would seem I need to take the motorhome to an approved workop to get this done every year (or at least until the warranty expires).

Thanks for your help.

Phil

[keninpalamos]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-03-23 1:30 PM

 

Advice is offered here that, before greasing an AL-KO axle, both of that axle’s wheels should be raised clear of the ground.

 

http://www.motorhometour.co.uk/blogs/miscellaneous/greasing-lubricating-al-ko-rear-chassis-motorhome/

 

“3. Next you need to jack up both sides of the rear axle so both wheels are off the ground. This ensures the new grease is pumped all around the inside of the axle.”

 

In fact AL-KO’s own advice is (my capitalisatiion)

 

“IDEALLY jack the motorhome so both wheels are off the ground. The grease nipples are situated on the axle tube.”

 

As the nipples are (or should be!) positioned on the axle so that grease enters BETWEEN the two plain bearings at each axle-end, it’s difficult to understand why it should be imperative that both wheels be off the ground. As Robinhood says, alternately raising each wheel clear of the ground (so that the axle’s trailing-arm is at maximum ‘droop’) and pumping in grease through the nipple at that axle-end should be perfectly adequate.

And perfectly adequate it is on my older '99 tag axle model. I have had to replace both torsion bars in my axles in the past so I'm very particular on greasing all 4 grease nipples, once before I leave for a 5 month trip and as soon as I get back as well. It only takes an hour and is an easy job if done regular. A bit over the top I know but I don't fancy doing another axle overhaul again.

[Derek Uzzell]

plwsm2000 - 2017-03-24 11:05 PM

 

Sorry - I should have searched a bit deeper before posting. This is my first motorhome and this topic was not mentioned during the hand-over (one of many topics unfortunately!).

However, even if this is a DIY job, how do you get the AL-KO log book stamped? It would seem I need to take the motorhome to an approved workop to get this done every year (or at least until the warranty expires).

Thanks for your help.

Phil

 

I believe you own a relatively-new Frankia motorhome.

 

As has been said above, the Fiat warranty for current/recent Ducatos is 24 months duration (after first registration) and the Fiat’s initial servicing requirement is at 24 months or at 30,000 miles (whichever comes first).

 

Fiat will have provided Frankia with the Ducato chassis on which your motorhome is based and the conversion of the chassis into a motorhome will have involved two stages - fitting the AL-KO rear chassis and then adding the ‘habitation’ coachbuilt body and equipment.

 

Continental motorhome manufacturers do not usually mandate that ‘habitation servicing’ be a requirement in order to maintain the warranty relating to the vehicle’s conversion-element. However, there normally will be a requirement that a check be performed annually by an authorised agent of the manufacturer to maintain the validity of the motorhome’s water-ingress warranty. If that’s the situation with your Frankia, it would seem sensible for greasing of its AL-KO axle to be done when the damp-check is performed, when the Frankia agent can stamp the AL-KO booklet.

 

As it seems to be so hit-and-miss who greases motorhome AL-KO axles ‘professionally’, it wouldn’t surprise me if no UK owner of a motorhome with an AL-KO chassis ensures that the AL-KO booklet is stamped.

 

Logically, you’d best try to resolve this conundrum by contacting the dealership that sold you the motorhome and AL-KO.

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-03-25 11:30 AM...................However, there normally will be a requirement that a check be performed annually by an authorised agent of the manufacturer to maintain the validity of the motorhome’s water-ingress warranty. If that’s the situation with your Frankia, it would seem sensible for greasing of its AL-KO axle to be done when the damp-check is performed, when the Frankia agent can stamp the AL-KO booklet...............

Which is what I've taken to doing. The first two years I DIY'd, but wasn't happy wriggling under the van to do it one side at a time (as Robin states above) because (even on axle stands plus jack, with wheels wedged! :-)) having a slight slope on the drive, there is then only one wheel brake operative, and not much space in which to manipulate the grease gun. So, last year I got the Hymer dealer (Premier Motorhomes, Chichester) to grease the axle while the van was on the hoist for it's annual water ingress test, and will do so again this year. I have signed and dated the relevant pages in the AlKo handbook as a record that the work has been done in accordance with AlKo's service requirements.

 

I believe their basic warranty is only one year, and I haven't enquired whether this is extended by Hymer, or for how long. If extended to match the rest of the running gear, it would presumably acquire Fiat's two years, if for the duration of the Hymer water ingress warranty (which I very much doubt), it would be six years. As the van is now entering its fourth year, I'm resigned to the warranty by now having expired, so apart from maintaining grease in the trailing arm bearings, the warranty issue is somewhat academic so far as our van is concerned.

 

I was warned by AlKo UK against adopting Monique's practise of pumping in grease until it exudes from the bearing seals, as this bursts the seal which would then allow water in. They say the bearing is greased on assembly, and only six or so strokes of a grease gun annually are required to maintain it adequately supplied.

 

My main reason for not getting the axle done during vehicle servicing, was that few vehicles now require greasing. Correspondingly, garages have become unfamiliar with grease guns, the gun that is used may not contain the appropriate (high pressure) grease, and some have pressurised bulk greasing equipment that gives no indication of how much has been injected - until it exudes. I also suspect that, with little current demand, greases may have been hanging around far longer than is desirable.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

My Method is the only way to prove the axle is propely greased . In that case the inner seal which sits in the inner tube angle and the mud seal to cover will not move apart when grease is passing.Ask alko uk to show the detail of the outer seal and inner, and start Diskussion from there

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

In the older versions it is said that this area should be full of grease. To keep entrance out and a assurance that your axle is greased. The bush near the chassis rail is the most loaded and where the needle bearing sits at the grease free.

[Derek Uzzell]

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-03-25 5:16 PM

 

...Ask alko uk to show the detail of the outer seal and inner, and start Diskussion from there

 

There seems little point in asking Al-Ko (UK) for technical details of the axle’s grease-seal, when they have already advised Brian Kirby against pumping in grease until it is forced through the seal.

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-03-25 6:19 PM

 

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-03-25 5:16 PM

 

...Ask alko uk to show the detail of the outer seal and inner, and start Diskussion from there

 

There seems little point in asking Al-Ko (UK) for technical details of the axle’s grease-seal, when they have already advised Brian Kirby against pumping in grease until it is forced through the seal.

Although, to be fair Derek, the advice was during a telephone to AlKo's UK technical department (one man, I think :-)), about 3 years ago, so there would be no harm in asking whether they've changed their recommendations, or even the design of the axle, more recently.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

For god sake ask them what sits on the end of the axle. Two rubber parts in circular form. And a assembly video.

[Derek Uzzell]

It should be obvious from the Fraser Brown Engineering website

 

http://www.fraserbrowneng.co.uk/index.php?c=al-ko-axle-repair

 

that each end of a standard AL-KO axle has a pair of ‘plain’ bearings, plus a grease-seal providing protection against water ingress. A nipple on the axle-casing is (hopefully!) positioned so that grease will enter between the the pair of bearings and will move laterally into each bearing. This is very basic engineering, but - other than having an axle modified to follow Fraser Brown’s approach - all one can realistically do is follow AL-KO’s own lubrication advice.

 

You have been advocating a method that involves pumping in grease until so much pressure is produced that grease is forced through the outermost bearing and begins to emerge from the grease-seal. This method directly conflicts with AL-KO’s advice that

 

"5-7 pumps of a hand grease gun for each side should be sufficient, until resistance is felt. Excess greasing could break the seals and fill the torsion tube.”

 

http://www.al-ko.co.uk/pages_faqs/axles-2.html

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

It is not a do it yourself job as most users have not a clue what they doing. Unless your understand your axle in detail. Stay away from your rear axle in a total load of about two tons and leave to a alko specialist.The same rule is valid for all other under body work.

 

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Fraser brown do not perform work on btr axles, but most on bt. if you known the difference. There grease seals are not the same.Once and for all if you take the wheel off and the brakes and the swing arm you are looking in a alko axle tube where you see the first bush. In that tube on the end there two Siamese rubber seals. You can pump them out at a certain limit axial pressure. But very unlikely.The inner seal protrudes somewhat in the axle tube at a angle. And the outer goes over it.After two years speaking to alko users that outer seal should make some noise when pumping.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

And alko stamping book does not exist in Belgium. All work on a motor home is registered by computer.As i understand that alko chassis are assembled in the UK whit axles from France. It is really a shame that such questions should be asked having a 7000 euro price premium built in in their motor-home.

[Derek Uzzell]

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-03-27 6:49 PM

 

It is not a do it yourself job as most users have not a clue what they doing...

 

The perceived competence and understanding of UK owners of motorhomes with AL-KO axles are irrelevant.

 

Most AL-KO axles will need greasing and the original inquiry was about how AL-KO’s apparent requirement for annual greasing (and recording deatails of this servicing in the AL-KO handbook) squares with Fiat’s initial 2-year servicing interval for Ducato.

 

As I’ve said before, this is a UK motorhome forum aimed primarily at UK motorcaravanners who are resident in the UK and have UK-registered motorhomes. Whatever the practices are outside the UK regarding AL-KO axle servicing (you say the AL-Ko “stamping book does not exist in Belgium”) it’s the practice in the UK that matters here.

 

The English-language AL-Ko website

 

http://www.al-ko.co.uk/pages_faqs/axles-2.html

 

describes how greasing of an AL-KO axle should be done (with a warning about over-greasing) and the procedure recommended has not changed for over 20 years. In all that time I’ve never come across any ‘official’ advice that greasing should continue until grease is forced through an axle’s outer seal.

 

In principle, greasing an AL-KO axle is a simple DIY task and it will be evident from discussions here that plenty of forum-members do it. There are safety risks of course, but those risks are not much higher than when changing a road-wheel. If a motorhome owner is capable of changing a road-wheel safely, they should be capable of greasing an AL-KO axle. And, if they have never carried out the task before and want to know how, it is plain commonsense that they should follow the advice on the AL-KO website.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Sorry to have bordered your UK motor home forum about alko. I surrender.