You are logged in as a guest. 
  Home Forums Home  Search our Forums Search our Forums    Log in to the Forums Log in to the Forums  register Register on the Forums  

 Forums ->  Motorhomes -> Motorhome Matters
Format:  Go
Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
AuthorMessage
userAndyStothert
Posted: 12 September 2008 10:48 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 
Lives on the forums

Posts: 554
5002525


Re the Fiat advert one of our unhappy band of owners has already contacted the ASA but the response was that they only concern themselves with the quality of the adverts and not the quality of the product.

If Fiat don't follow Peugeot's late but welcome lead in this we are proposing to disrupt proceedings at the NEC show - if that is I can energise enough dissatisfied owners to actually do something positive. The problem seems to be that everyone now thinks Fiat are bound to do what Peugoet have offered to do, but with Fiat having so many more vehicles to fix, and so a much bigger bill to face, I'm not sure they want to 'do the right thing'.
If anyone out there feels they have the experience and expertise to sort out a fiasco like this for Gods sake stick your hand up, as my only advantage was/is that I have the contacts in the motorhome press, and a dogged slightly thick and bloodyminded sort of character.
Like I said if anyone wants to take over I will give as much assistance as I can with the magazine matters and the huge reservoir of information my bulging brain (and email system) now contains.
Meanwhile if anyone wants to wear the latest fashion at the NEC show (a T shirt advertising the 'characteristics of the Fiat Ducato) they will cost about 4 quid each if we can get a hundred volunteers, and I will need to know by the last week in September if anyone is interested.

userrupert123
Posted: 13 September 2008 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 
Forum master

Posts: 2925
200050010010010010025
Location: Beddgelert, North Wales


Hope you get your hundred people Andy because if not it will go a long way to saying this is a 'storm in a tea cup' as far as Fiat are concerned. I have spoken with two people this week who leave me to believe that is exactly what it is. One in my village who has a year old Adria with a 130 Fiat engine. He had just returned from a two month Euro trip so was talking to him about this and mentioned the reverse problem. To my surprise he had never heard of it and had never had a problem, although he could not remember if he had ever reversed up a steep hill. He also could not care less, he was happy with the van and it has a three year warrenty so why worry. He also said why would anyone in their right mind expect a heavy loaded van to reverse up a 1 in 4 hill without some vibrations, reckoned his car would have trouble doing this. I also took my van into Spinney Motorhomes for some new bits and while their spoke to salesman I know. Their new registrations were up on last year and as they sell nearly all Fiat based vans it would seem the campaign is having little effect and fears of a collapse in Fiat market is totally unfounded. However the efforts made by you are obviously an irritation to Fiat UK and hopefully something will happen if only to get you 'off their backs'. Not sure if I am going to NEC but if so will buy a T shirt, every little helps, wonder how many others of the people shouting so loud on this forum will do the same.
usermike 202
Posted: 13 September 2008 10:46 AM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 926
50010010010010025
Location: Portsmouth


Unfortunately I will be in Spain when the NEC is on, but my wife and I will support the campaign, (financially) by buying two T-shirts and (Morally) by wearing them and spreading the word whenever I can on sites in Spain.

As I have said before, although I have swopped my Fiat X/250 for a Ford, I am more than happy to donate funds to any fighting cause that sorts this mess out as I was caught out as well.

Good on you Andy

Regards Mike
userham
Posted: 14 September 2008 8:51 AM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 
A posting machine

Posts: 345
10010010025


I also have a fiat (Trigano Tribute) bought 2007 the judder is very slight. I just had the first service completed. I pointed out to the garage ( not motor home dealer its is a Iveco commercial dealer) the judder they checked with Fiat but as already stated on this forum there is no likely hood of a fix soon. I will and suggest as many of you that can, contact your local trading standards dept. (Has the goods that have been supplied are not fit for purpose). This may take the trading officers some time to investigate, But at least it is another thorn in the side of Fiat..... Secondly I have emailed BBC Watchdog with the address of this site as they are in the process of building their next series of programs in October. Again suggest as many as possible email the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_radio/watchdog/contact_index.shtml this will take you to their site. If the Problem gets air time it will be of great embarrassment to Fiat. You can imagine the Dealers (Not just motor homes it also effects the commercial vans that are sold ) going Nuts
userAndyStothert
Posted: 14 September 2008 11:34 AM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 
Lives on the forums

Posts: 554
5002525


Me thinks Henry (Rupert123) is trying to wind me up again.
This storm in a teacup has forced Fiat to spend millions in a very premature redesign of the gearbox with a lower ratio reverse gear.

The fact that it there sionlny a slight judder on the flat and that it only gets critical on a steep hill is irrelevant - Fiats own figures reveal that damage can occur on a 1 in 6 hill, and you just never know when this may may present itself.
For instance we arrived at a campsite in Croatia a month ago in stunning surroundings but the only way to access the pitches next to the sea was by descending a series of steep ramps which involved going forwards on one, then backwards on the next.
There were several motorhomes (none new Fiats or Peugeots) down there, but did we dare risk taking ours down there and risk knackering another gearbox reversing back up?
No chance. Another opportunity lost because of Fiat's careless attitude to design.
Like I said this defect is a time bomb - it may never affect a certain kind of owner, but he/she will eventually sell it and the next unfortunate owner may have to pick up the bill for the ineptitude of the previous one.
Henry owns a 5 speed van, and they aren't really that bad, so he has adopted (or seems to have) adopted a slightly smug attitude to the issue. Does he think Peugoet would be going to the trouble of swapping the reverse gear in the 6 speed models if they didn't have to?
I was trying to keep Watchdog out of this for the simple reason that Fiat may agree to quietly fixing a few hundred motorhomes in preference to making it a wider issue. But perhaps it is now time to gety a wider public awareness of it before the new gearbox is introduced in January and we present owners are cast to the wind.
userRayjsj
Posted: 14 September 2008 6:13 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


Forum master

Posts: 3664
200010005001002525
Location: Way out West (Wales) 2014 Autotrail V line 600


Speaking as a person who mainly buys second-hand vehicles,the idea of yet another generation of Fiat/Sevel Motorhomes carrying the 'Buy with extreme caution' label makes me very angry. The poor sxd's who buy these 'crap' vehicles sometime 'down the line' will be getting a lot of heartache, the people who only get 'a slight judder' then sell on, are just passing the problem on to others, who probably won't have the beneifit of a Fiat warranty. Personally I think they are 'not fit for purpose' from new . And won't be buying one,I hope the 'Used' value drops through the floor.
(sorry, Andy) What are the details for these 'T-Shirts ? I want one.
usermike 202
Posted: 14 September 2008 6:28 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 926
50010010010010025
Location: Portsmouth


I note and applaud your original concerns to protect Fiat, UK manufacturers, Dealers and their sales staff. and perhaps the resale value of those owners caught in the Trap.
However have:-
Fiat listened ----NO---They have ingnored all pleas for help and denied a problem exists.
Manufacturers ----NO--- They just keep on turning out vehicles that have defects.
Most Dealers and sales staff Truthfull---NO----Lovely vehicle Sir, NO problems with gearbox, the just blatently forget to tell the truth.
So, why should we the poor old punter bear the cost, suffer the stress and anxiety caused when our vehicles fail.
NO--- The softly, softly, approach has not worked, so stuff the lot of them and go Public, Watchdog and any other campaign like the T-shirts at NEC, Etc.
userrupert123
Posted: 15 September 2008 1:40 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 
Forum master

Posts: 2925
200050010010010010025
Location: Beddgelert, North Wales


AndyStothert - 2008-09-14 11:34 AM

Me thinks Henry (Rupert123) is trying to wind me up again.
This storm in a teacup has forced Fiat to spend millions in a very premature redesign of the gearbox with a lower ratio reverse gear.

The fact that it there sionlny a slight judder on the flat and that it only gets critical on a steep hill is irrelevant - Fiats own figures reveal that damage can occur on a 1 in 6 hill, and you just never know when this may may present itself.
For instance we arrived at a campsite in Croatia a month ago in stunning surroundings but the only way to access the pitches next to the sea was by descending a series of steep ramps which involved going forwards on one, then backwards on the next.
There were several motorhomes (none new Fiats or Peugeots) down there, but did we dare risk taking ours down there and risk knackering another gearbox reversing back up?
No chance. Another opportunity lost because of Fiat's careless attitude to design.
Like I said this defect is a time bomb - it may never affect a certain kind of owner, but he/she will eventually sell it and the next unfortunate owner may have to pick up the bill for the ineptitude of the previous one.
Henry owns a 5 speed van, and they aren't really that bad, so he has adopted (or seems to have) adopted a slightly smug attitude to the issue. Does he think Peugoet would be going to the trouble of swapping the reverse gear in the 6 speed models if they didn't have to?
I was trying to keep Watchdog out of this for the simple reason that Fiat may agree to quietly fixing a few hundred motorhomes in preference to making it a wider issue. But perhaps it is now time to gety a wider public awareness of it before the new gearbox is introduced in January and we present owners are cast to the wind.


Andy either I am not explaining myself very well, likely, or you are not reading my post properly, again. First my 'storm in a tea cup' bit. Fiat must have known for some time what the problem was and what most of us have long suspected, reverse gear is to high. What they will undoubtably do is keep things as quiet as possible and fix it. Ok this will cost a bit but they will probably along with new gearbox fit a couple of new body panels and call it a facelift. Now this will not cost them a great deal, I am speaking in vehicle cost terms now not what you or I would regard as a great deal. The real cost would come if they have to retro fit tens of thousands of new gearboxes but this will not happen because most have still not even heard of the problem, this is what I mean by storm in a teacup. I have said this before but the second hand value of Fiat based vans will not be affected and I know sales of new ones are not being effected. Unless this issue is broadcast loud and clear on the major media outlets then nothing much will happen. To say your campaign is an irritant to them is not meant in any way as a slight but the effect it will have is that I feel Fiat will offer a fix to people who shout loudest to keep things limited. Companies including all the major players in the motorhome business are happily still selling motorhomes and vans as are Fiat so they do not feel their is to much of a problem. The obvious way forward by Fiat would be to initially keep the point at which they start fitting the new box very quiet, they may already be doing it, and declare a facelift model when they are ready. As to feeling smug, yes a bit. I had ordered a 130bhp six speed van, believe I told you this, and because of your campaign changed my order to have the 100bhp five speed specification, this has, so far, performed without fault and I am very happy with it. At present it is at Spinny having a satalite dish and reverse camera fitted, they are also fixing a couple of problems but these are at the habitation end. Hope I get it back soon as my wife and I have been home from Scotland for nearly two weeks now and hope to get another trip in before the ski season.

Trying to wind you up, would I, any more than you would try to wind me up. How is the T shirt thing going would be curious as to how many on here are going to support it.
usercatinou
Posted: 15 September 2008 5:32 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


Treasured contributor

Posts: 803
500100100100
Location: 2010 Burstner Aviano i728G


Hi Andy - we reported our "slight judder" to Fiat and it was confirmed to them by our local Fiat garage. We were not overly concerned UNTIL:

We set off for Italy at the end of August and after travelling via Germany and Austria when we stopped for fuel at the latter part of the journey through the Austrian mountains we could smell a definite "hot clutch" smell which concerned us a bit.

A week later we were moving to a site nearer to Pisa and TomTom took us on a route with a very steep and narrow road - not visible until after a bend - and the van refused to go up the hill, spinning tyres and severe juddering - the only course of action was to disconnect the A frame and Smart car (thank goodness we didn't have a trailer to contend with this year!) and reverse them carefully back - it took some doing but we got out. The rest of the holiday was spent being very apprehensive when we saw heavy traffic ahead on an uphill section.

As the tunnel was closed on our return we also had to contend with the steep slope to get on the ferry at low tide on Saturday - needless to say we are reporting the "near miss" to Fiat and will let you know what they say. Good luck with your campaign. Please let me know how we can get a couple of your T shirts - we are on the C & C site on Saturday at the latter part of the NEC show......
userrupert123
Posted: 15 September 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 
Forum master

Posts: 2925
200050010010010010025
Location: Beddgelert, North Wales


catinou - 2008-09-15 5:32 PM

Hi Andy - we reported our "slight judder" to Fiat and it was confirmed to them by our local Fiat garage. We were not overly concerned UNTIL:

We set off for Italy at the end of August and after travelling via Germany and Austria when we stopped for fuel at the latter part of the journey through the Austrian mountains we could smell a definite "hot clutch" smell which concerned us a bit.

A week later we were moving to a site nearer to Pisa and TomTom took us on a route with a very steep and narrow road - not visible until after a bend - and the van refused to go up the hill, spinning tyres and severe juddering - the only course of action was to disconnect the A frame and Smart car (thank goodness we didn't have a trailer to contend with this year!) and reverse them carefully back - it took some doing but we got out. The rest of the holiday was spent being very apprehensive when we saw heavy traffic ahead on an uphill section.

As the tunnel was closed on our return we also had to contend with the steep slope to get on the ferry at low tide on Saturday - needless to say we are reporting the "near miss" to Fiat and will let you know what they say. Good luck with your campaign. Please let me know how we can get a couple of your T shirts - we are on the C & C site on Saturday at the latter part of the NEC show......


Interesting one this as it would seem to be a differant problem, not associated with the reversing one. Going up steep hills should not cause a hot clutch, unless you were reduced to slipping it. The going up steep hill and van refusing/ wheels spinning sounds like a case of an overloaded van with to much weight on the rear axle.
usercatinou
Posted: 15 September 2008 7:47 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


Treasured contributor

Posts: 803
500100100100
Location: 2010 Burstner Aviano i728G


Not at all Rupert - the van was practically empty - as was the Smart car's petrol tank. We always travel with the minimum items on board (it helps save fuel) and our water tanks are never more than 1/2 full.

The judder on our van has been assessed and agreed to be on reverse AND 1st gear on take off. I don't know the technical reasons etc. but Adams Morey have reported their findings on our particular van to Fiat.

userTracker
Posted: 15 September 2008 9:21 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


We were at Shepton Mallet this weekend and all of the many dealers we spoke to were either denying there is a problem or very much playing it down by blaming it on the 'way you drive it'.

Bloody liars and arrogant conmen - the lot of them!

So I drove two of them one 5 speed and one 6 speed and I found that, in my non engineers but many driving years view, reverse gear is so high that you cannot safely reverse with the clutch fully engaged and both vans juddered somewhat when driven backwards ON THE LEVEL, so I saw no point in trying them on a gradient.

The judder was not violent but is unacceptable in any brand new vehicle and the high reverse gear is positively dangerous as it limits the drivers control of the vehicle.

There was also some shudder on take off in first gear but I was able to almost eliminate that with care - but should I have to?

I'm happy to report that I was able to warn about 20 people about the perils of Sevel - some in the presence of a salesman and I managed to talk some out of even considering a new Fiat based van.

This did not endear me to some salesmen but it did make them start to discuss it with their potential customers - and one customer was so incensed that the salesman had not advised him of the problem he refused to complete his purchase of a new Autotrail! Good result eh!

I WILL NOT BE BUYING ONE!

Edited by Tracker 2008-09-15 9:32 PM
userClive
Posted: 15 September 2008 11:00 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


Forum master

Posts: 3139
2000100010025
Location: New Milton


How is progress on "T" shirts Andy?
userpkc
Posted: 16 September 2008 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 812
500100100100


Please do not take this as a criticism of Trackers post, but may I add my two pence worth to the ‘shuddergate’ thread.
As one who has had a long love/grate relationship with Sevel gearboxes I understand the quite legitimate anger at the manufacture’s cavalier attitude to the problem, I would suggest however that expressing it in the more extreme manner as suggested by some will be counter productive.
It’s a well used tactic in big business, politics, and the press to marginalise small but vocal minorities by labelling them as ‘extremists’ how ever just their cause, lets not paint ourselves into that corner.
The debate seems to have settled into trench warfare mode, with seemingly no way out for both parties, may I make a couple of suggestions?
If Fiat are so confident in the strength of their cause ( and gearboxes) why not do what an increasing number of car makers are doing. and give a five or seven year unlimited mileage guarantee on the drive train, or alternatively, or as well as, perhaps the dealers who are ‘Piggy in the middle’ as usual in this one, and probably stand to lose as much as anyone could set up an insurance based scheme giving similar protection, this could be financed by the parties concerned.
Regards PKC.

userTracker
Posted: 16 September 2008 10:48 AM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


No offence taken pkc as everyone has a valid point of view and discussion is good for the soul - if not for the gearbox!

The van's ride and driving feel are improved over the old vans, but I am also far from convinced that the ride and driving experience are that much better than the old van to justify the not inconsiderable expense of investing in one?

Maybe it's a good time to take a look at offerings on a Renault, Ford, VW (T5 is good to drive but a bit cramped) or Mercedes Benz?

I STILL WILL NOT BE BUYING A NEW DUCATO/BOXER!
usermike 202
Posted: 16 September 2008 12:22 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 926
50010010010010025
Location: Portsmouth


PKC, you say any bolder action would or could be counter productive to our cause. Nothing has been done so far by Fiat/the dealers/the converters so how can you go below Zero. Are they going to be upset and send out Spooks in the night, or set up a curse to bugger the gearbox even more by remote control.
NO the lets be nice has not worked, so show them up for what they are, arrogant and liers. As for the "poor" dealers they just dont care for any one but them selves.
WELL DONE fellow sufferer at Malvern, I bet you sleep better at nights knowing that you have saved at least one soul for certain and probably more that listened to you. Just keep a wary eye on your back.
Mike
usermike 202
Posted: 16 September 2008 12:23 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 
Treasured contributor

Posts: 926
50010010010010025
Location: Portsmouth


Sorry Tracker meant to say Shepton Mallet.
useryeti
Posted: 16 September 2008 1:09 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


Treasured contributor

Posts: 858
5001001001002525
Location: NW England


Bought my Auto Trail Scout in June 2008 2 local trail trips one of about 40 miles and one of about 120. Only problem was a massive 'thump' on start up. In July we went away for a week to Lancashire,on arrival at campsite the van juddered when trying to reverse onto pitch and clutch was smoking. When we came to move the van the clutch pedal was hard down onto the floor,it freed itself after about 2 miles!also trying to find 1st.2nd and reverse is becoming more impossible. All reported tp FIAT who gave me a garage now where near me,when I informed tghem who was near to me and an appropriate garage they have agreed,subject to Slough head office agreeing.
When I ordered the vehicle I originally wanted it on a Merc,but was told that they weren't making any on the Merc,I bet AT regret that decision!!
userClive
Posted: 16 September 2008 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


Forum master

Posts: 3139
2000100010025
Location: New Milton


Our AT Scout on a Merc has been faultless. 11 years old now and still perfic.
Just run in 45000 miles.

??

C.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 16 September 2008 8:10 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


50005000500010001001001002525
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


catinou - 2008-09-15 7:47 PM Not at all Rupert - the van was practically empty - as was the Smart car's petrol tank. We always travel with the minimum items on board (it helps save fuel) and our water tanks are never more than 1/2 full. The judder on our van has been assessed and agreed to be on reverse AND 1st gear on take off. I don't know the technical reasons etc. but Adams Morey have reported their findings on our particular van to Fiat.

Jenny

You were travelling through Germany to Italy with a practically empty van?  No clothes, food, wine, water, bedding, levelling ramps, towels, washing up equipment, etc, etc, and you were towing a smart?

The spinning wheels are a symptom of lack of traction, meaning the weight on the front wheels was insufficient to enable the tyres to drag the combined weight of van plus Smart up the hill. 

If you haven't already done this, therefore, I would suggest you take the van, laden as for normal travel, plus the Smart on its A frame, to the nearest weighbridge, and check that you are not exceeding your permissible Gross Train Weight. 

If unsure, this will be the bottom, highest value, figure shown on the data plate for your van, normally found somewhere under the bonnet.  The handbook will tell you where.  If you exceed this weight, which is the combined actual laden weights of both van and trailer, you won't get any sympathy from Fiat.  If you are close to it, don't necessarily expect your van to re-start on hills!  GTW is the maximium weight at which the vehicle can be expected to re-start on a hill of a particular severity (I can't remember how steep, but it is not that steep).

usercatinou
Posted: 16 September 2008 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


Treasured contributor

Posts: 803
500100100100
Location: 2010 Burstner Aviano i728G


Brian,

When I said practically empty I actually meant that we had no unecessary items for us i.e. several empty lockers and the van carefully loaded with minimum contents - such as sauces, spices etc in small containers instead of glass bottles and jars etc. We did not have much more food than we needed for a couple of days as we tend not to waste time cooking when on a long journey.

The waste water tank was empty, the water tank is never filled above 50% when travelling. Only 2 of us are in the van and we always shop on arrival in Italy - usually in Auchan near Verona.

Last year we towed a trailer which weighed about 1200 k as well as the Smart car and had no real problems and we have had the van weighed already which shows plenty of payload left on both axles.

Maybe I didn't explain the situation very well, but the wheelspin was because we had to increase the revs significantly as the van would not move uphill in 1st gear from a standing start. Even after taking the Smart and A frame off the back the van would still not go up the hill and my husband had to back carefully down and turn around so we could drive seperately to a safe place to hitch up again.
usercatinou
Posted: 16 September 2008 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


Treasured contributor

Posts: 803
500100100100
Location: 2010 Burstner Aviano i728G


Brian,

When I said practically empty I actually meant that we had no unecessary items for us i.e. several empty lockers and the van carefully loaded with minimum contents - such as sauces, spices etc in small containers instead of glass bottles and jars etc. We did not have much more food than we needed for a couple of days as we tend not to waste time cooking when on a long journey.

The waste water tank was empty, the water tank is never filled above 50% when travelling. Only 2 of us are in the van and we always shop on arrival in Italy - usually in Auchan near Verona.

Last year we towed a trailer which weighed about 1200 k as well as the Smart car and had no real problems and we have had the van weighed already which shows plenty of payload left on both axles.

Maybe I didn't explain the situation very well, but the wheelspin was because we had to increase the revs significantly as the van would not move uphill in 1st gear from a standing start. Even after taking the Smart and A frame off the back the van would still not go up the hill and my husband had to back carefully down and turn around so we could drive seperately to a safe place to hitch up again.

Sorry "twitchy finger syndrome" strikes again

Edited by catinou 2008-09-16 8:55 PM
userzulurita
Posted: 17 September 2008 8:05 AM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


Keeps coming back for more

Posts: 155
1002525


Well done Tracker.

More people need to be made aware of the design fault of the NEW Fiat Ducato X250.

It really isn't FAIR on us customers who spend their life savings on a motorhome and often do not have the funds to buy another one and are left with a vehicle that is really not fit for purpose.

Although my gearbox hasn't failed (yet) I am constantly worried as to where I am driving incase I have to reverse! It is bad enough in normal situations reversing on the flat etc when there is vibration despite doing what Fiat advise.

Being as careful as I can, I still get vibrations when reversing on the flat or slight slopes let alone anything steeper. I have stalled trying to reverse onto campsite pitches and that is trying to keep revs up to Fiats recommended level!

Taking a wrong turn and having to reverse in awkward situations is a nightmare!

So more people do need to be made aware of the Fiat Ducato X250's problems. A new gearbox, clutch etc are all expensive items, why should we bear the cost of a design fault!!

If Fiat stated that they would help those of us with these affected vehicles then we would be happy I am sure but leaving us in limbo is just BAD. My vehicle will be a year old in November and I haven't heard anything from Fiat other than to give me a case number.

I for one will not buy another Fiat vehicle unless they resolve this problem for me.
userMike Parke
Posted: 17 September 2008 10:15 AM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 
Has lots to offer

Posts: 439
10010010010025
Location: Gorleston, East Norfolk. Autohomes 180 2.2 'Pug'


I have just purchased a new Peugeot Boxer 2.2 HDi based Autoquest 130. Picked it up a couple of weeks ago but have not used it to any extent to date. Took it for a short 100 mile run yesterday as I was 'desperate' to drive it. I found nothing wrong with it whatsoever. O.K. I did not have to reverse up a hill or any sort of incline but I did do some reversing to see if there was a problem but, as I say, nothing. Is the problem refered to soley a FIAT one? It seems funny if it is just FIAT related as they all come off the same production line, do they not?
usercolin
Posted: 17 September 2008 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 7554
500020005002525
Location: Bedfordshire, Globecar 636SB


Mike Parke - 2008-09-17 10:15 AM

I have just purchased a new Peugeot Boxer 2.2 HDi based Autoquest 130. Picked it up a couple of weeks ago but have not used it to any extent to date. Took it for a short 100 mile run yesterday as I was 'desperate' to drive it. I found nothing wrong with it whatsoever. O.K. I did not have to reverse up a hill or any sort of incline but I did do some reversing to see if there was a problem but, as I say, nothing. Is the problem refered to soley a FIAT one? It seems funny if it is just FIAT related as they all come off the same production line, do they not?


I have not myself sat two makes side by side, but note that others have and commented on the differances.
Haveing some vans that judder and some not is quite easy to explain and I'm supprised how many people comment on it, all parts are made to tollerances, a certain part or combination of parts with differant tollerance is, IMO, causing this. As to when or if your van will judder, I have driven three vans, one didn't judder, the other two did, but not on flat tarmac, but when reversing on sloping soft(ish) grass, to quantify that, my T25 happily reverses up that slope with no effort whatsoever
userdavid lloyd
Posted: 17 September 2008 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1844
100050010010010025
Location: Guisborough Cleveland - 2013 Autosleeper Worcester


Mike Parke - 2008-09-17 10:15 AM

I have just purchased a new Peugeot Boxer 2.2 HDi based Autoquest 130. Picked it up a couple of weeks ago but have not used it to any extent to date. Took it for a short 100 mile run yesterday as I was 'desperate' to drive it. I found nothing wrong with it whatsoever. O.K. I did not have to reverse up a hill or any sort of incline but I did do some reversing to see if there was a problem but, as I say, nothing. Is the problem refered to soley a FIAT one? It seems funny if it is just FIAT related as they all come off the same production line, do they not?


Hi Mike

I know the thread is getting rather long now but, from the beginning, you will see that it is a SEVEL problem not a FIAT problem. One of the main differences is that Peugeot have since acknowledged there is a problem and have promised a fix (albeit may take many months to sort out) but Fiat are not, as yet, accepting there is even a problem never mind actively seeking to rectify the affected vehicles under warranty.

Purely on the bassis of the way in which Fiat, particularly, have handled the issue we decided not to buy a new van conversion recently on the X250 chassis and opted instead for a late (previous) model Fiat. Even when it comes to replacemnent time for that I will have serious doubts about buying ANY X250 based van that may have the problem lurking beneath - as yet, we do not know if the problem may manifest itself inlater years after the warranty has run out - hence the anger that those affected feel unless Fiat do something positive.

David
userMike Parke
Posted: 17 September 2008 1:52 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 
Has lots to offer

Posts: 439
10010010010025
Location: Gorleston, East Norfolk. Autohomes 180 2.2 'Pug'


Thank you, gents for that. I had not read the thread in its entireity as until a couple of weeks back I had the 'old' model and, for course, the information contained herein did not effect my Motorhome. I can only say you would have thought they would have found the fault pre production or, at least, admit the fault afterwards.
userTracker
Posted: 17 September 2008 6:41 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


And is if the judder ain't enough the tight fisted bu##ars don't even give you a spare wheel any more - although you can pay for one - but heaven knows where you can store it?
userAndyStothert
Posted: 17 September 2008 8:29 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 
Lives on the forums

Posts: 554
5002525


Greetings all,
We've been blissfully computer-less for the best part of a week and it's given me a little time to assess my part in all of this, and whether it is worth me keep buzzing around the monster which is Fiat.
And I was also hoping for some good news from Fiat as one of the senior managers at Fiat UK told me three weeks ago that he hoped to have some good news for UK Fiat owners within three weeks.
This was one reason why I haven't been really pushing the T shirt event for the NEC - as I really believed that Fiat were in the throes of sorting out an arrangement similar to that being offered by Peugeot.
That particular senior manager is back in the office tomorrow so hopefully I can find out if we have any need to start printing the Tee shirts.
However I'm not sure there will be enough volunteers to wear them where it counts - for several reasons.
Firstly the offer of a solution (lower ratio reverse gear) from Peugeot once the new gerabox is put into production in January means that (understandably to a certain extent) that the Peugeot owners think it is all sorted out.
Secondly (and again understandable) many of the Fiat owners also think that the 'battle' has been morally won and that Fiat will inevitably follow Peugeots' lead, so they feel that a 'let it develop' attitude is now appropriate.
Thirdly half of 'em claim to be in Spain.
But fourthly, as most of these vans are owned by, shall we say, the more mature and least outrageous section of society imaginable, the thought of 'Direct Action' seems to fill them with dread.
And again you can see why. Not all are as demented as Clive and I.
Everybody says they will buy one (back to the Tee shirts) but wearing it in the right place at the right time is what matters, and if there aren't enough folk willing to do that there is no point me going to the trouble of getting them printed and posted.
But we will see - I'm going to see what Fiat say, then consult with the list of 160 odd owners I have to see what they think.
The otheraffecte owners (held on lists with MMM and also I think, the the Motorcaravanners club) are outside of my reach.
I'll let everyone know what Fiat have to say - but I suspect it will be nothing - as has happened in Italy, but where they are to start fitting the modified gearboxes to those who have shouted loudest. But only them.
Whichever way this breaks Fiat are NOT going to do a recall - that is for sure.
usercolin
Posted: 17 September 2008 9:07 PM
Subject: RE: Major Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen problems/ Reversing judder
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 7554
500020005002525
Location: Bedfordshire, Globecar 636SB


Your right about some people not wanting to take action, was talking to a Fiat owner about month ago, his van judders, he is aware of these threads on forums, when I asked what dealer said, he told me he had not complained but was waiting to see what happens and if a recall is made
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread
Jump to forum :


(Delete all cookies set by this site)(Return to Homepage)

Any problems? Contact the administrator